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Owlspiracy posted:hah well they are profitable - not that early stage - but yea gonna counter I have always done it over email when looking and hiring.
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Jun 8, 2021 03:39
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Yeah you want e-mail for the paper trail. Also, it makes it easy for the hiring manager to forward your e-mail to the person that actually makes the decision.
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Jun 8, 2021 03:42
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thank you thread 
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 03:43
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Edit: well, fine then
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Jun 8, 2021 03:49
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Owlspiracy posted:thank you - that makes sense, but feels so strange. I guess feeling uncomfortable about saying you want more money is how employers get away with lower offers. Or, possiblity three, they are as hard up for money as they claim to be, in which case you're a bad month away from being let go anyway. Would you want to work in that situation?
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Jun 8, 2021 13:10
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if you are not a confident, experienced negotiator DO NOT negotiate over the phone. Hell even if you are one, still don't.
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Jun 8, 2021 13:30
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:if you are not a confident, experienced negotiator DO NOT negotiate over the phone. Seconded Even if you get the upper hand, not having a paper trail means whoever you were speaking to gets to spin it however they want to the people making the final decisions I got screwed by this hard in a negotiation a few years back. Asked for $5k more or some more time to consider the offer, and the offer was straight-up pulled. Learnt through the grapevine later that the HR person I'd been speaking to characterized that as "being combative" to the hiring manager, even though afaik I was speaking in standard office-ese.
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Jun 8, 2021 16:20
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If so, that HR person probably saved your rear end from unwittingly stepping into a couple years of misery.
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Jun 8, 2021 16:51
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Current role is countering my senior director offer, I'll see later today/tomorrow what they come up with. Now, I get it. Essentially everyone says to never take a counter. However my current role is chill af (and it's on the client side, vs. the other role on the agency side, aka probably at least 2x more work), current boss is annoying but not sapping my soul, and the health benefits are excellent and MUCH cheaper. I'd be extremely tempted to keep posting during 90% of my workday while never being contacted on nights or weekends if they came up to a TC of $175ish (vs. $200k at the new role). I know this is a bad idea but I'm as lazy as I am greedy so it may be a hard decision.
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Jun 8, 2021 17:29
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It’s a tough game: who is the bigger foe, the company or yourself? Double negotiation!
REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 17:49
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stellers bae posted:Current role is countering my senior director offer, I'll see later today/tomorrow what they come up with. I mean, you can take the counter as long as you're okay with and prepared for abruptly becoming unemployed (with severance or unemployment comp for a while) in about 4-6 months. If Newjob's benefits package is worse/more expensive than Currentjob's you definitely need to take that into consideration when determining how much salary you need to make the jump. IMO if laziness/contentedness is as big a factor as you say, you're probably better off declining the offer and remaining at your current salary than you are shopping the offer to your current employer to match. The latter gets you more money for a few months but very likely results in them bouncing you once they've prepared to replace you more cheaply. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 17:56
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I have something interesting about to happen. After fully remote work due to COVID, my company is bringing people back to the office. I'm planning to negotiate to stay 3 days remote permanently. When is the right time to bring this up? The plan is to go to 1 day on next week, then 2 on the week after that.
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Jun 8, 2021 18:14
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Asap I'd imagine. Why wait?
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Jun 8, 2021 18:41
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Xguard86 posted:Asap I'd imagine. Why wait? I was weighing over 'now' or 'once we're at 2 days on-site just ask if I could stay that way'.
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Jun 8, 2021 18:44
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Quackles posted:I was weighing over 'now' or 'once we're at 2 days on-site just ask if I could stay that way'. 100% now.
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Jun 8, 2021 18:58
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stellers bae posted:Current role is countering my senior director offer, I'll see later today/tomorrow what they come up with. Alrighty, we've been watching you do this find a new job/don't find a new job dance for like 3 months now. The potential new job met all your demands, you should feel very validated right now, but you still want to go back to your current job and push them for even more? Like I'm not trying to be a dick here, but you've already won a couple times now. What exactly are you looking for?
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Jun 8, 2021 18:59
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I think you're better off asking up front. Are you worried there might be more repercussions than just a no?
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Jun 8, 2021 18:59
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Xguard86 posted:I think you're better off asking up front. Are you worried there might be more repercussions than just a no? No. I just suspect that I'll have a better shot once I'm already at 2 days remote because "I'd like things to stay this way" is usually an easier sell than "I'd like to change things" in general.
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Jun 8, 2021 19:01
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skipdogg posted:Alrighty, we've been watching you do this find a new job/don't find a new job dance for like 3 months now. The potential new job met all your demands, you should feel very validated right now, but you still want to go back to your current job and push them for even more? Wait, was there already an ask for the current company to pay more this year? Or was that just considered and then discarded when the decision was made to not leave? I'm so confused now haha.
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Jun 8, 2021 19:01
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stellers bae posted:Current role is countering my senior director offer, I'll see later today/tomorrow what they come up with. why are you loving about with staying with a company that you have very clearly described as going in to a death spiral in the corp thread? you have a decision making and complacency problem as far as I can tell
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Jun 8, 2021 19:23
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Walking away from a bridge that's on fire isn't the same as burning it.
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Jun 8, 2021 19:28
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stellers bae posted:Current role is countering my senior director offer, I'll see later today/tomorrow what they come up with. If your post history is to be believed, you've gone from making $75k to $200k (potentially) in 30 months time. That's a pretty incredible feat. Without sounding like a prick, it seems like imposter syndrome is creeping up on you and you're trying to split the difference by making more money where you are already comfortable. If you are really "doing nothing" for a big part of the day at your current job, then you should know that's not going to last forever either. Your organization could hit hard times or even just bring it a new executive who figures out that there is a lot of slack in your department and you could end up putting in much more work with the same salary. It's easy for strangers on the internet to tell you what to do (take the job), but take a long hard look at my first two sentences and see if that's what you're really wrestling with. What is it that you really want?
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Jun 8, 2021 19:33
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Chiasmus posted:If your post history is to be believed, you've gone from making $75k to $200k (potentially) in 30 months time. That's a pretty incredible feat. Without sounding like a prick, it seems like imposter syndrome is creeping up on you and you're trying to split the difference by making more money where you are already comfortable. I think this is accurate. I'm nervous about two things, a.) I really value my free time with my family and would definitely bristle if I had to routinely work outside normal hours, and b.) I'm nervous that I'm not going to be able to do this job well, and that it'll be harder to handwave that away due to the prominence of this role in the org. Then again, I can make anything work for 9-12 months and like everyone has said, on paper, everything should be gravy.
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Jun 8, 2021 19:47
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Quackles posted:No. I just suspect that I'll have a better shot once I'm already at 2 days remote because "I'd like things to stay this way" is usually an easier sell than "I'd like to change things" in general. I mean same logic except my detail is that whoever made this plan is already living in that future in their head. So the sooner you ask the less intertia.
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Jun 8, 2021 19:48
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:why are you loving about with staying with a company that you have very clearly described as going in to a death spiral in the corp thread? Oh poo poo, I didn't make the connection that it was stellars in the corporate thread. Yeah that is some world class complacency-driven cognitive dissonance going on there.
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Jun 8, 2021 19:55
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Eric the Mauve posted:Oh poo poo, I didn't make the connection that it was stellars in the corporate thread. Just because you've consistently offered good advice doesn't mean you can describe me accurately now
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Jun 8, 2021 20:16
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stellers bae posted:I think this is accurate. I'm nervous about two things, a.) I really value my free time with my family and would definitely bristle if I had to routinely work outside normal hours, and b.) I'm nervous that I'm not going to be able to do this job well, and that it'll be harder to handwave that away due to the prominence of this role in the org. Unless it is explicitly stated in your offer that you have to work uncompensated overtime every week, just take the new job, work 8-5, make bank, and gently caress anyone who tries to tell you that you need to work more. 
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Jun 8, 2021 20:20
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Cognitive dissonance is a bitch, we all go through it from time to time and by definition we can never perceive it when it's happening to us. Others perceive it when our actions don't align with our words. Trying to help you as best I can here. Can you pull what you've said in the two threads together and write out the best case you can make for staying where you are?
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Jun 8, 2021 20:20
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thank you thread
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 20:27
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Gin_Rummy posted:Unless it is explicitly stated in your offer that you have to work uncompensated overtime every week, just take the new job, work 8-5, make bank, and gently caress anyone who tries to tell you that you need to work more. that ain't really how it works at a Senior Director level at a professional services firm in the USA
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Jun 8, 2021 20:33
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:that ain't really how it works at a Senior Director level at a professional services firm in the USA Coincidentally, it's probably also why I don't enjoy early promotions...
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Jun 8, 2021 20:36
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Gin_Rummy posted:Unless it is explicitly stated in your offer that you have to work uncompensated overtime every week, just take the new job, work 8-5, make bank, and gently caress anyone who tries to tell you that you need to work more. Yeah, you'll be new. That's the time to set a precedent for your methods of working. Every time I've started a new job, I make it a point to never check my email on the weekend, evenings, or during vacation. When I'm on vacation (whether it's for a single day or a whole week), I make my out-of-office reply state that I likely won't have email access. If you start off with that (unspoken) policy on your end, you have a really good chance of achieving a pretty normal schedule. I've done this at pretty much every job I've been at and it's never been a problem. If I'm taking a longer vacation, I even let people know that if there's an absolute emergency, they can text me- which only ever happened once, on the first day of my planned vacation, and the request was literally 15 minutes of work to just email someone a file so they could work on it. There have certainly been times where there were legitimate emergencies and I had to work for part of a weekend or later into the evening than normal, but it is very rare (once a year or less). All of these were well after I had (again, unofficially) demonstrated that I am not an evening/weekend/vacation email checker for quite a while. If you start your new job and immediately are in overachiever mode, rushing to respond to every email no matter when they come in, replying to emails on vacation, working on the weekends, etc., it will be very hard for people not to expect that from you permanently. Granted, this all relies on you not working for an rear end in a top hat/sociopath, but barring that, I'd say you have a pretty good chance of getting decent hours that you want if it's a new job. (That said, I have no experience in a role as high up as Senior Director, so there may be a little less leeway there.) TL;DR- Right off the bat, set a precedent of not checking your email after hours or when you're off. If you come in new and are working all hours of the day, people will assume that is how you work for the rest of your time being employed there. Since you're a Senior Director, if someone does ask you to work more though, you probably can't go with the "gently caress off" method.
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Jun 8, 2021 20:37
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I'm looking for new work either full remote or in the bay area, and am currently employed full time. A lot of the applicable job postings I see are for contract positions, some on w2 some not. Due to my partner I have the ability to work contract as I can get health insurance through them, but obviously would rather have a full time gig rather than contract. I also don't have to get a job for up to 6 months as we don't need to move to the bay till then. How do I evaluate pay rates for contract positions, and is there a difference between on w2 or not? I've heard it needs to be at least double what you would expect as a salaried employee, is that still the case? If it matters this is for a somewhat specialized computer toucher role in pharmaceuticals.
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Jun 8, 2021 22:20
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stellers bae posted:Current role is countering my senior director offer, I'll see later today/tomorrow what they come up with. If I was the hiring manager of the company offering 200K and you turned me down to stay where you were after all that back and forth I would be beyond pissed. Not that me being pissed matters to you but you will definitely be burning that bridge to the ground.
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Jun 8, 2021 23:14
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It seems much better to take $200k, give it a shot, and start looking elsewhere after 6-12 months if it’s not a good fit.
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Jun 8, 2021 23:20
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There are probably a lot of reasons at your current job why you went through all the effort of interviewing and negotiating a new job. Is a raise really going to fix those problems? I don’t know your situation, but in general people who are already one foot out the door ought to follow through if they were put in that position in the first place. Change can be really good. It can also be scary. And if it turns out to be a bit poo poo you can look for a new job with a higher baseline title and comp target. I’ve never regretted leaving an old job, even when I waffled about it in the moment.
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Jun 8, 2021 23:24
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Sr director in prof services might be a lot but you're setting up for Sr director in a corp job. Which could very well be decent hours plus the better money.
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Jun 9, 2021 00:27
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Well I was talking w/ Company C Thursday night, asked a few questions last night, and they come back today and tell me they hired somebody  this whole thing has been so weird, I ain’t that mad about it since they came to me (twice), but whatever. I did mention the “offer” (which they never made formally despite pushing for new discussion) to B, we’ll see if it ends up leveraging me up at all.
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Jun 9, 2021 00:46
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Spikes32 posted:If it matters this is for a somewhat specialized computer toucher role in pharmaceuticals. Could you expand on the kind of role you're targeting? Data management, data science, something else entirely?
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Jun 9, 2021 01:01
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LIMS (laboratory information management services) admin / business analyst. Also known as LIS in some places, laboratory information services
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Jun 9, 2021 01:16
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