(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Looool OP is totally more successful and loved than friends
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Jun 9, 2021 17:31
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Shyrka posted:Remember Lost? Remember Game of Thrones? poo poo can be huge and then just utterly vanish from the cultural landscape. Harry Potter probably has enough inertia not to plummet like they did but it's definitely declining in cachet/relevance and will only continue to do so. And because everyone except weird TERFs hates JK now, and Fantastic Beats/Cursed Child were so badly received, there's a lot of actual animosity that hurts any appeals to nostalgia that could be made for it. It's very easy to say, "Pssh, it was always poo poo," and dismiss it, whereas even in the pre-prequel times of the 90s people still loved Star Wars and would talk about how much money the old toys were worth and stuff like that. People like to mention Lost and GoT but I feel like those two series faded out of the cultural landscape because of people's reactions to how they ended, while HP ended...well, it was kinda lovely at the end but fans seemed to be okay with it. They didn't feel like it was a waste of time at the end. Also, it had more of a run as a cultural phenomenon between the books and the movies. I think Rowling being a TERF is gonna hurt the series' legacy but not really make it irrelevant, I think it was too influential in its genre to ever fade out from discussion.
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Jun 9, 2021 17:32
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The ephemeral nature of pop culture crazes intrigues me. You have certain entrenched properties that stick around for decades and span generations but then you have others that make a huge splash and immediately die off once the books finish or the movies end.
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Jun 9, 2021 17:33
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GoT did have its last season grind things to a halt but even if it ended well I don’t see Lost having a ton of staying power. I probably liked Lost more than most people but a good tv show can sometimes only be so much.
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Jun 9, 2021 17:35
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Bakeneko posted:This is something any popular work in the fantasy genre has to contend with, I think. It may have lost some of the stigma it once had, but there are still plenty of book snobs who dismiss fantasy as stupid or childish compared to the “real” literature that they read. I moreso meant people who take an issue like Rowling's dogshit politics and only use it as a convenient excuse to reiterate how they never liked the books to begin with. Sure she's a rabid transphobe who's actively trying to oppress trans people, but much more importantly have you considered that her books suck? And that I realized that sooner than you? 
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Jun 9, 2021 17:35
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bobjr posted:GoT did have its last season grind things to a halt but even if it ended well I don’t see Lost having a ton of staying power. I probably liked Lost more than most people but a good tv show can sometimes only be so much.
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Jun 9, 2021 17:37
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avatar is still the strangest pop culture craze to come and go. theres all these weird vestiges of it. avatarland.
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Jun 9, 2021 17:38
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bobjr posted:GoT did have its last season grind things to a halt but even if it ended well I dont see Lost having a ton of staying power. I probably liked Lost more than most people but a good tv show can sometimes only be so much. Yeah, I think the issue with Lost is also that it was a mystery show and there's not much to drive discussion or make people engage with it after the mystery is "solved". but here, for content, Adam Neely talks about people being jerks on Tiktok because someone went for a weird, non-standard harmony in their duet video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqsnqIw--RU&hd=1
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Jun 9, 2021 17:38
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Endorph posted:avatar is still the strangest pop culture craze to come and go. theres all these weird vestiges of it. avatarland.
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Jun 9, 2021 17:40
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With Harry Potter would have made a billion more dollars if during the last book's craze they had just made a second life but in Hogwarts.
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Jun 9, 2021 17:41
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ButterSkeleton posted:Looool OP is totally more successful and loved than friends i work with kids who are obsessed with one piece and dragon ball still. warms my heart. it must feel good as an artist to know things you make resonate with all ages and people. im not sure how many people strive for universality consciously with their work but when it happens it kind of whips rear end.
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Jun 9, 2021 17:44
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I think we're all avoiding the real question here, is JoJo's Bizarre Adventure more popular than Modern Family?
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Jun 9, 2021 17:55
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Arcsquad12 posted:The ephemeral nature of pop culture crazes intrigues me. You have certain entrenched properties that stick around for decades and span generations but then you have others that make a huge splash and immediately die off once the books finish or the movies end. I think a property needs to have a continuous release of content for 5 years to a decade, without an oversaturation of content (either official content or derivative knock-offs) and without any major gently caress-ups. Its why most streaming shows that release all their episodes at once go down the memory hole. People talk about a season for a week at most, and then its promptly forgotten until the next season. IShallRiseAgain fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 17:58
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Impermanent posted:i don't really think "Quality of world building" is a thing that affects the longevity of media in the minds of audiences globally or nationally. it's just a thing that serves as a salve for a particular kind of escapist impulse. strong plots, relatable characters and huge popularity upon its original reception seem to be the most reliable indicators. Much as Sanderson fans like me can rave bout his worldbuilding and meticulously thought out magic systems, you're right. If his books didn't have Vin or Kelsier or Dalinar, I wouldn't give a poo poo about them. fun hater posted:i work with kids who are obsessed with one piece and dragon ball still. warms my heart. it must feel good as an artist to know things you make resonate with all ages and people. im not sure how many people strive for universality consciously with their work but when it happens it kind of whips rear end. On the topic of pop culture longevity, DB is now a shambling zombie franchise but even before Toriyama decided to make Battle of Gods and earn billions more dollars, it was still receiving far more discussion and stuff online than other finished series. I remember how hard it was to find people to talk about Death Note in 2015. I remembered how crazy huge it was just a few years ago but almost nothing when I read the manga. The complete opposite with DB where Z and GT were long finished but everyone still got on tons of different forums to debate and discuss it. Some series just hang on. I dunno why some things stick around and others don't.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:01
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The 7th Guest posted:it could've maybe maintained its momentum if it didn't take james cameron 20 years to make each one James Cameron is wagering large amounts of time and money that it will. Are you going to risk betting against James Cameron on what people will pay money to see? Dias posted:Eh, no one gave a gently caress about LotR outside of fantasy nerds until the movies came out, and I think it's very hard to argue with a straight face that HP didn't change the face of YA literature and even how an entire generation saw books. I don't think we'd have bookstans if it weren't for the series, for instance. LoTR was a huge phenomenon in the 60s American counter-culture movement. Nuns with Guns posted:Except in this case, every addition has to pass through the filter of one billionaire woman who lives in a castle and thinks it's good world-building to run "Magic School" through Google Translate a dozen times. This is the weird choke point on Harry Potter, WB want to milk it for all its worth - and both Fantastic Beasts and Cursed Child made money hand over fist. But Rowling won't concede any creative control, even in the way George Lucas did where he said "write whatever you want but I might contradict it later".
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Jun 9, 2021 18:04
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NikkolasKing posted:Much as Sanderson fans like me can rave bout his worldbuilding and meticulously thought out magic systems, you're right. If his books didn't have Vin or Kelsier or Dalinar, I wouldn't give a poo poo about them. This is where I pop up again to say I think some of it is cultural blindness, DBZ is so popular in South America that it was never really "dead" even across the years, considering the syndication reruns and PSX/PS2 games, while Death Note was very popular...amongst people that are into manga and anime.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:09
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Mr Phillby posted:I think we're all avoiding the real question here, is JoJo's Bizarre Adventure more popular than Modern Family?
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Jun 9, 2021 18:14
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Last time this came up, I really wanted to discuss the Japanese dub of Friends that I tried watching once while stuck inside during monsoon season.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:24
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Endorph posted:i mean, you could have easily just done 'heres the adventures of an american kid in the american school' and it would have been a bit of retread but probably done fine. well hypothetically. given uhh everything shes written about native americans it might have been a trainwreck. True, or she could also just let someone else write that story whose from that culture, or a minority group within that culture who might have a better perspective on writing about that minority group. The Star Wars EU had to run things through Lucas or some reps of his all the time, and they certainly let a lot of trash through, but they still let people set up their own little worlds within the setting. With HP Rowling needs to directly fiddle with every little thing to a much deeper degree, and it all ends up coated in her mucus. Impermanent posted:i don't really think "Quality of world building" is a thing that affects the longevity of media in the minds of audiences globally or nationally. it's just a thing that serves as a salve for a particular kind of escapist impulse. strong plots, relatable characters and huge popularity upon its original reception seem to be the most reliable indicators. It's not really a "quality" thing so much as the setting itself not really having any foundations to build on outside of the UK, and needing to retcon in ways to justify expanding beyond it. It wasn't a setting that was meant to be expanded on, and for a number of reasons every attempt to do so just makes it dumber and more unbelievable.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:27
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The 7th Guest posted:it could've maybe maintained its momentum if it didn't take james cameron 20 years to make each one One atypical thing with Avatar is that it's not so much that it didn't maintain it's momentum so much that it was purposely snuffed out. You can bet your rear end that there were ten thousand publishers chomping at the bit to produce Avatar the cartoon, Avatar the HBO miniseries, Avatar the YA novel, , Avatar the telenovela, Avatar the breakfast cereal, etc. Instead there's a theme park but jack else until Cameron releases film #2.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:32
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Nuns with Guns posted:I think Endorph is right in the sense that Harry Potter isn't sustainable the same way a massive sci-fantasy setting like Star Wars is. The whole core problem with the books and Fantastic Beasts and poo poo is that it started on a soft, wibbly children's story setting, and if you want to make it an EU you're going to have to be pretty skilled to expand beyond the unremarkable Urban Fantasy England baseline.  That's exactly how Star Wars started out. Super digestible, simple kids story that had some low quality spinoffs (example: Ewoks movies, Droids cartoon, Holiday Special) that nevertheless remained really in the social consciousness until this day, despite George Lucas and Disney blundering through half of the franchise's existence. There is no reason to believe the same won't be the case for Harry Potter.Endorph posted:avatar is still the strangest pop culture craze to come and go. theres all these weird vestiges of it. avatarland. James Cameron's Avatar is such a strange beast. When it came out you had a game and a EU encyclopedia and that's it. The movie broke all the records, but nobody did anything with it so it faded away until loving Avatar land which was created 8 years after the movie came out. And recently they started releasing comic books that progress the story a little. Archer666 fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 18:32
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Endorph posted:well only only one of thems had an exhibit in the louvre Paladin posted:Last time this came up, I really wanted to discuss the Japanese dub of Friends that I tried watching once while stuck inside during monsoon season.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:34
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Mr Phillby posted:I really want to hear more about the japanese dub of friends please elaborate. I'd rented a season to practice my Japanese since I'd read about so many English as a second language speakers using them to learn English and I thought it would be funny in a meta sort of way. The biggest thing that stuck out to me was how higher pitched the lead actresses voices seemed, especially given how big a contrast it was with most of their performances. I'd expected them to pitch-shift or change register or what have you when they were speaking to each other away from the guys/strangers but that wasn't in the dub, so I wasn't sure if that just wasn't common practice in Japanese comedy at the time, if it was but just wasn't done when dubbing foreign shows, or what. I remember the guy who dubbed Joey seemed to be most aligned with what I expected. I think the archetype just translated easiest. Also seemed to be a lot more pop culture and landmark specific references left in than I would have thought going in. I decided to just stick to Japanese shows from that point on, but also decided that if I ever tried this again I really, really needed to find the Japanese dub of The Nanny.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:41
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Archer666 posted:
I do think it'd be a better idea to stick to digestible kid adventures with Harry Potter, but no, instead we have to talk about how the first Wizard Hitler knew WW1 was coming and wanted to do bad things to muggles to stop it, I think?
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Jun 9, 2021 18:47
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Archer666 posted:
Star Wars pretty much immediately started expanding out from movies. Between New Hope and Empire Strikes back they had already released 3 entire spinoff books and since 92 have released a minimum of 5 books per year. That's also ignoring video games, comics, Tabletop RPGs and tv series. Harry Potter had what 2 small charity spinoff booklets, and the movies and games based on those until the main series ended. It's much easier to start writing an expanded universe while you are still working on the main story, because once that ends you lose a lot of momentum. Of course Star Wars cheated on that front with the 456 numbering.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:49
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Archer666 posted:James Cameron's Avatar is such a strange beast. When it came out you had a game and a EU encyclopedia and that's it. The movie broke all the records, but nobody did anything with it so it faded away until loving Avatar land which was created 8 years after the movie came out. And recently they started releasing comic books that progress the story a little. I think a big part of Avatar's original appeal was its genuinely great use of 3d. The problem is that you can't really replicate that part of the experience outside of a movie theater (or theme park). It would be like if the original Star Wars trilogy never came out on home video. Eventually the spin-offs and other merch would dry up. We'll see what happens in December... ...2022?!? Really? drat.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:53
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Paladin posted:I'd rented a season to practice my Japanese since I'd read about so many English as a second language speakers using them to learn English and I thought it would be funny in a meta sort of way. I don't know much about the dubbing industry in Japan, but you do end up with "vocal recasts" that don't really fit the original voice in live-action dubs, either as a conscious decision or just preferring acting over timbre. Are those dubs popular in Japan, by the way? Like, do you have even splits between dubs and subs for blockbuster movie releases or is it just a thing for syndicated shows?
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Jun 9, 2021 18:55
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I've seen episodes of The Simpsons dubbed into Japanese and the thing that stuck out to me was how different the performances were from domestic Japanese television. There's a very noticable performative aspect to voice acting in anime and in public speaking, so it was really interesting listening to the use of more subdued, natural sounding dialogue to match the tone of The Simpsons.
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Jun 9, 2021 19:03
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LanceHunter posted:I think a big part of Avatar's original appeal was its genuinely great use of 3d. The problem is that you can't really replicate that part of the experience outside of a movie theater (or theme park). It would be like if the original Star Wars trilogy never came out on home video. Eventually the spin-offs and other merch would dry up. We'll see what happens in December... Never bet against James Cameron imo
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Jun 9, 2021 19:15
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I actually would have really liked the first Fantastic Beasts movie if it was actually "magical zoologist and muggle friend have rad times with kooky creatures" instead of being 30% and 70% studio mandated Prequel To Specifically Harry Potter Stories nonsense like all of those magic animal scenes were really good and Newt and the human guy whose name I have forgotten were a delightful pair
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Jun 9, 2021 19:15
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Just a little sneak peek at the future, when Avatar 2 is about to come out there will be a bunch of people writing articles & thinkpieces about how nobody remembers Avatar so nobody will care about the sequel and then Avatar 2 will gross over a billion dollars and those writers will be completely dumbfounded.
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Jun 9, 2021 19:18
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Nuns with Guns posted:It really only became an issue when it was apparent that this was some widespread "normal" thing, Hogwarts has dozens of them working in the background, and Harry inherited one. When it was just Dobbie being a slave to the Malfoys, that was fine because the Malfoys are racist wizard nazis, so them keeping and abusing slaves was objectionable but in-character. It could've been kept as some dated practice only monstrous bigots still follow, but noooope. Y’know, this suggests that basically at some point in the past, Wizard society basically hijacked the fae contracts with the house elves and divvied them up between the major wizard houses, and it happened so long ago nobody thinks about how hosed up that is. Which actually fits in perfectly with Potter as a setting! Shame it was so utterly disinterested in actually examining and trying to challenge those ideas in favor of Blairite nonsense.
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Jun 9, 2021 19:31
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Bleck posted:I actually would have really liked the first Fantastic Beasts movie if it was actually "magical zoologist and muggle friend have rad times with kooky creatures" instead of being 30% and 70% studio mandated Prequel To Specifically Harry Potter Stories nonsense this. i genuinly liked that movie alot because thats an interesting side to the magic world even if it had weird dumb moments. "magical herper who is super empathetic trying to help animals with his normie friend and both are fish out of water" works. 2 is just weird and stupidly dark. like blowing away a child in the first 20 min type dark. also just loving terrible writing and etc. CmdrKing posted:Y’know, this suggests that basically at some point in the past, Wizard society basically hijacked the fae contracts with the house elves and divvied them up between the major wizard houses, and it happened so long ago nobody thinks about how hosed up that is. yeah but you put way more thought into it then she did. her thought was, "well the society is mostly good with some bad apples who are really bad, so it can't be something "complex".
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Jun 9, 2021 19:52
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I was never a fan of Harry Potter and I was the perfect age for it. I dont think I even had any friends who were. I thought the books sounded stupid and a few years later I saw 2 of the movies and realized I was right.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:26
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i was briefly into harry potter but i moved on to stuff like lord of the rings, dresden files, douglas adams and terry pratchett. Probably would have stuck with it a bit longer if all of my friends' moms weren't worried about it being satanic.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:43
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Funny story is when I moved from fresh post-Communist Poland to Western Europe, my new grade school had a special event to celebrate the third Harry Potter novel being released. And I had no loving clue what a Harry Potter even was. Wasn't really interested in the books afterwards either, was more into sci-fi and horror back then.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:48
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Archer666 posted:
There are people out there who think the original Star Wars trilogy is great. No one thinks the HP movies are great (with the sole exception of maybe the third one) At best they are "fun". I'm sure some millennial parents are shoving the HP books down their kids' throats in an attempt to recapture their own childhood but there's no way there's enough to maintain the audience needed to keep it relevant in the long term. At least until WB makes a remake of the movies in 20 years.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:54
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Harry Potter does seem like something that can benefit from just giving some writers freedom to do what they want with it without JK's approval. Like, an Animation but for Harry Potter would be cool. Life in the fringes of Wizarding world.
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Jun 9, 2021 21:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JH4YIXfNeA king of the hill was actually fairly popular in japan. the ep where they go to japan must have been a trip to those fans, lol its also funny how boomhauer just kinda talks normally. a bit fast and rambly but he's comprehensible. Endorph fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 21:03
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Endorph posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JH4YIXfNeA The best part is Japanese fans argue about whether it’s better dubbed or subbed
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Jun 9, 2021 21:23
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