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Cafe Barbarian posted:
How I look at it though is that fortunately, Netflix is already looking for ways to bring those details out so they can shine without taking from or cramming/rushing into the movie. I don't see how that can be a negative. If we didn't know about the anime, how would it affect the movie?
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Jun 10, 2021 03:12
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Again, it’s good not to get caught up in franchise thinking. You don’t need to show the dried zombies getting rehydrated, when it’s just a lead-up to the hibernating zombies that appear shortly afterwards. The overall point is that the ‘traditional zombies’ are no longer an issue because they don’t have, like, goals. After the last humans left, they literally just stood outside, baking in the sun, for like five years.
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Jun 10, 2021 03:39
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I watched this again with a friend that hadn't seen it. In the scene where Martin is killed by the tiger. There is a very brief moment when the tiger's head turns that you can see a fainter version of the blue glow from the tiger eye that some of the other zombies have.
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Jun 10, 2021 23:18
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When they first saw the tiger, the Coyote explained that it's one of Siegfried and Roy's, and it 'guards the edge of their territory', they meaning the alphas. But in the moment I thought she meant that undead Siegfried and Roy control part of vegas and have zombi tigers patrolling, perhaps to prevent encroachment from the Blue Man or Penn and Teller tribes. I have been wondering about the radios in the movie. They did have radios because Bautista called Notaro for updates on the helicopter sometimes, but then I feel like there were several other situations, for instance Chambers getting separated, where a radio call would have been a good idea.
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Jun 10, 2021 23:40
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Again, it’s good not to get caught up in franchise thinking. You don’t need to show the dried zombies getting rehydrated, when it’s just a lead-up to the hibernating zombies that appear shortly afterwards. “ He's telling me he'll never bake bread, farm crops, raise livestock. He's telling me he's futureless. And eventually he'll tell me how long the infected take to starve to death.”
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Jun 11, 2021 01:30
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Cafe Barbarian posted:When they first saw the tiger, the Coyote explained that it's one of Siegfried and Roy's, and it 'guards the edge of their territory', they meaning the alphas. But in the moment I thought she meant that undead Siegfried and Roy control part of vegas and have zombi tigers patrolling, perhaps to prevent encroachment from the Blue Man or Penn and Teller tribes. I was the same. I also was hoping for an Elvis convention horde or a nod to The Hangover somewhere. Vegas is a genius setting for this sort of movie.
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Jun 11, 2021 02:15
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DeimosRising posted:“ He's telling me he'll never bake bread, farm crops, raise livestock. He's telling me he's futureless. And eventually he'll tell me how long the infected take to starve to death.” I've only recently come to the conclusion that what Christopher Eccleston's character is saying is also true for a large portion of us in reality as well. Or you can even use the characters in 28 days later to demonstrate this since for the most part they seem to just live off vending machine food. thinking about it it's one of the points of dawn of the dead (orginal and remake): the idea is that people hole up in these places of consumerism precisely because they cannot grown their own food or bake bread or raise livestock.
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Jun 11, 2021 03:15
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Yes, I always thought that line was really good because, in fact, most people can't do any of that either.
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Jun 11, 2021 04:07
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We do be living in a society.
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Jun 11, 2021 05:14
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Cafe Barbarian posted:When they first saw the tiger, the Coyote explained that it's one of Siegfried and Roy's, and it 'guards the edge of their territory', they meaning the alphas. But in the moment I thought she meant that undead Siegfried and Roy control part of vegas and have zombi tigers patrolling, perhaps to prevent encroachment from the Blue Man or Penn and Teller tribes. More undead factions would have been great, maybe the sequels will have some! I don't remember if everyone had radios, but it wouldn't have helped in the sleeper maze - the noise would have risked waking them up, and once they were awake there's no time or point in trying.
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Jun 11, 2021 07:08
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Spacebump posted:I watched this again with a friend that hadn't seen it. In the scene where Martin is killed by the tiger. There is a very brief moment when the tiger's head turns that you can see a fainter version of the blue glow from the tiger eye that some of the other zombies have. And that reminds me of people complaining that the level of damage and decay to the tiger's body means it shouldn't be able to roar. It's quite likely that doesn't matter anymore. Still got a theory that the 'virus' is slowly turning the zombies into... something else. Likely becomes more obvious the more damaged they are and the longer they've been around (and whether they're Alphas, which the tiger may likely be) as artificial body parts are developed to make up for nonfunctional original ones.
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Jun 11, 2021 07:56
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:I've only recently come to the conclusion that what Christopher Eccleston's character is saying is also true for a large portion of us in reality as well. Or you can even use the characters in 28 days later to demonstrate this since for the most part they seem to just live off vending machine food. Which is true but, he’s also a fascist prick. While that line could also describe most people in modern society it sounds kinda fash in that context too, since it suggests an underlying assumption that ‘weak’ lives are worthless. Like I can easily picture an alt-right YouTube lamenting what a tragedy it is how the modern so called male cannot do [paleolithic Hunter gatherer activity].
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Jun 11, 2021 07:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Again, it’s good not to get caught up in franchise thinking. You don’t need to show the dried zombies getting rehydrated, when it’s just a lead-up to the hibernating zombies that appear shortly afterwards. Additionally, our heroes unexpectedly find in their once fearsome combatants an unsettling reflection of their own post-war stasis hinted at earlier in the seamless transition from a bombed out Las Vegas to the establishing shot of the diner. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 13:41
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massive spider posted:Which is true but, he’s also a fascist prick. While that line could also describe most people in modern society it sounds kinda fash in that context too, since it suggests an underlying assumption that ‘weak’ lives are worthless. Like I can easily picture an alt-right YouTube lamenting what a tragedy it is how the modern so called male cannot do [paleolithic Hunter gatherer activity]. True enough It is true that the character is a fascist who ultimately doesn't really care for humanity itself. And that's where we should draw a distinction between his character, alt-right/fascist talking points and what i was saying; Their use of the "ideal human' is always exclusionary. Where as pointing our current state should not be construed as one of lack of humanity, but rather just understanding our current dependence on the state of things to the proletariat's detriment and the ruling class's empowerment.
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Jun 11, 2021 15:24
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Sarkozymandias posted:You’re preoccupied with the imagined care levels of the zombieman, and failed to perform an even rudimentary interpretation of the movie. You of all people should know that a familial relationship is not based on unconditional love or caring. The level of care shown is kind of integral to the idea that he wants to expand his family. He doesn't give a crap about shamblers. He isn't reproducing with anyone except one person. Alpha creation could be a sign of family expansion, but he doesn't particularly care much for them either beyond their ability to serve. They're a tribe, not family. These relationships are different. Accusing an immigrant of xenophobia is an all-time take. You're a deranged idiot.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:46
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Judakel posted:The level of care shown is kind of integral to the idea that he wants to expand his family. He doesn't give a crap about shamblers. He isn't reproducing with anyone except one person. Alpha creation could be a sign of family expansion, but he doesn't particularly care much for them either beyond their ability to serve. They're a tribe, not family. These relationships are different. Accusing an immigrant of xenophobia is an all-time take. You're a deranged idiot. Immigrants becoming themselves xenophobic is a fairly well-known phenomenon. But just to be clear here: you are arguing that, because the zombies aren’t representative of a traditional family unit, they are therefore a hostile, even existential-level threat to humanity?
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Jun 11, 2021 19:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Immigrants becoming themselves xenophobic is a fairly well-known phenomenon. That is usually a phenomenon reserved for their descendants. The accusation is completely uncalled for and an ad hominem. Their method of growth requires the "death" of a human, so they are necessarily hostile to humans. As far as we know, only Zeus has been capable of finding another way to reproduce. There is no reason to assume that the alphas Zeus creates can impregnate anyone. Whether they are an existential threat to humanity largely depends on their ability to reach areas outside of their biome. It is unclear whether they spread far beyond the deserts of the west coast. As we saw, they do not do particularly well out in hot environments. There would most likely be problems in freezing environments, too. There is no evidence they are a family unit in any sense that has been anthropologically catalogued - traditional or not; you are begging the question. They most closely resemble a tribe.
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Jun 11, 2021 20:02
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Judakel posted:Their method of growth requires the "death" of a human, so they are necessarily hostile to humans. As far as we know, only Zeus has been capable of finding another way to reproduce. There is no reason to assume that the alphas Zeus creates can impregnate anyone. Whether they are an existential threat to humanity largely depends on their ability to reach areas outside of their biome. It is unclear whether they spread far beyond the deserts of the west coast. As we saw, they do not do particularly well out in hot environments. There would most likely be problems in freezing environments, too. There is no evidence they are a family unit in any sense that has been anthropologically catalogued - traditional or not; you are begging the question. They most closely resemble a tribe. The main part that people find objectionable about this (though certainly not the only part) is the basic assertion that these characters have a innate rapacious drive to “spread” like rats and consume all available resources, ultimately doing a ‘white genocide’ on humanity. Like a lot of stuff people have insisted about the zombies, it looks like pure projection because there’s no actual basis in the text.
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Jun 11, 2021 21:13
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I do like that about the movie as we see more of Zombie Vegas, from what we see of the zombies (and especially the alphas/Zeus) they could easily climb over the barricade if they wanted to spread or if Zeus wanted them to, but they don't, they just set up their own kingdom and even have some rules where humans can enter to a limited extent. We of course nuke them anyway.
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Jun 11, 2021 21:41
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The main part that people find objectionable about this (though certainly not the only part) is the basic assertion that these characters have a innate rapacious drive to “spread” like rats and consume all available resources, ultimately doing a ‘white genocide’ on humanity. Your rhetoric is lazy and intentionally provocative, which is typical for you. You've already granted by omission that they're not a family in any sense of the term, so now you're moving to talk of "white genocide". Comparisons to growth of human groups (and ignorant fears of replacement) are unwarranted because those are not a zero sum game, but zombification is a zero sum game. The fact most zombies are born out of a human death is self-evident. All the basis for their expansionist mindset is there, in the text, and I've discussed it at length already. People finding it objectionable that they do have this drive is not a testament to the idea that they do not have this drive. It makes for interesting conversation, though. Judakel fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 22:16
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Excited to see how well the latest attempt to own SMG goes
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Jun 12, 2021 02:15
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Judakel posted:Your rhetoric is lazy and intentionally provocative, which is typical for you. You've already granted by omission that they're not a family in any sense of the term, so now you're moving to talk of "white genocide". Comparisons to growth of human groups (and ignorant fears of replacement) are unwarranted because those are not a zero sum game, but zombification is a zero sum game. The fact most zombies are born out of a human death is self-evident. All the basis for their expansionist mindset is there, in the text, and I've discussed it at length already. People finding it objectionable that they do have this drive is not a testament to the idea that they do not have this drive. It makes for interesting conversation, though. Nothing is ‘granted by omission’; we could say that the zombies are brothers in Christ - or anything - because anyone even tangentially aware of Fast And The Furious knows that ‘family’ is a pretty elastic concept. No, the reason I avoid the “debate me!!!” style of point-by-point internet rebuttal is because it’s an obfuscation that only benefits you. You are insistent that we must ‘define family’, and that “a tribe is not a family”, because that has almost nothing to do with your actual point that the underclass deserves the bomb because of its evil essence. “Tribe” just has enough usefully negative connotations for you to double down on this pedantic-semantic tomfoolery. So we’re not doing that. Instead, we can simply point out that, between the prologue and Zeus’ wife getting killed, the “alpha” characters bite a total of one (1) persons - after the (human) Coyote character effectively asks them to. It’s quite the leap from that to the wanton slaughter of eight billion people, yet you’ve made it. Why? Because of how they look? Like, yeah, they do get confused with the ‘shamblers’ - but they’re about as distinct from the ‘shamblers’ as humans are from, say, chimpanzees. So it seems we’ve got a case of that sci-fi racism that always seems to be rearing its head. You are arguing that you are not a bad person “irl” but, because this is a movie, this particular outgroup is just objectively subhuman and deserving of death. You perceive this as a universe where racism is simply true and, so, you can indulge safely. (It’s the old illusion that, as in online communication, you can say and do anything because none of it is real and that avatar isn’t ‘me’.) But there is no universe where racism is true. The basic plot of the movie (whose tagline is “they’re not what you think they are”) is that the monsters immediately turn out to not be a threat at all. It’s fairly easy to communicate with them, and they clearly aren’t interested in mindlessly murdering and spreading disease because they do the exact opposite of that. All those assumptions emerged from you, but you are unwilling to take responsibility for them.
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Jun 12, 2021 04:19
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Of course, from the US government perspective, Zeus is an escaped bioweapon that they intended to inflict on a scapegoat nation likely as a pretence to nuke them.
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Jun 12, 2021 06:06
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Just saw. Had some fun, and very creative bits. And some boring and uncreative bits. Lots of variance and cool practical effects with the zombies was awesome. I didn’t care about a single one of the characters. When was Zack Snyders last “wow this is amazing” film? Friend and I were chatting afterwards and genuinely don’t know. I guess I loved the madness that was 300 when it came out? People seem to give him very high film budgets.
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Jun 14, 2021 00:47
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Real Cool Catfish posted:When was Zack Snyders last “wow this is amazing” film? Friend and I were chatting afterwards and genuinely don’t know. Zack Snyder's Justice League. Now you know!
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Jun 14, 2021 00:55
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teagone posted:Zack Snyder's Justice League. Now you know! I’ll watch that this week then. Never saw the Whedon version.
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Jun 14, 2021 01:06
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Real Cool Catfish posted:When was Zack Snyders last “wow this is amazing” film? Friend and I were chatting afterwards and genuinely don’t know. I mean it’s very much ymmv, I personally wasn’t blown away by his early stuff and became a big fan of his DC stuff, which I think has some of the better super hero action of the last few years.
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Jun 14, 2021 01:08
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It's too much of a slow burn and too conventional in its plot for me to be that enamoured with it. Now Batman V Superman Ultimate Edition, that's the good stuff
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Jun 14, 2021 01:13
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Real Cool Catfish posted:People seem to give him very high film budgets. The average budget for a studio film is 65 million. Army of the Dead was 70 million. For comparison, Adam Sandler vehicle You Don’t Mess With The Zohan was 90 million.
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Jun 14, 2021 12:38
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I am anxiously awaiting the sequel: gently caress Around with The Zohan and Find Out
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Jun 14, 2021 12:44
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Zohan was one of the Sandler movies he seemed to put effort into iirc, given it's got some extensive action sequences.John Wick of Dogs posted:I am anxiously awaiting the sequel: gently caress Around with The Zohan and Find Out It's one of the worst possible times to be making a movie with that premise right now, I'd imagine.
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Jun 14, 2021 13:18
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Of course, from the US government perspective, Zeus is an escaped bioweapon that they intended to inflict on a scapegoat nation likely as a pretence to nuke them. Reminds of the actual explanation for the second Iraq war https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bush-official-iraq_n_4132719 Like the US was going to use a nuke around that week one way or another from the get go, the only change being it being dropped on Vegas.
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Jun 14, 2021 13:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The average budget for a studio film is 65 million. Army of the Dead was 70 million. Holy poo poo. I didn't realise Snyder made Army on only 70mill and it looked that good and he still managed to completely edit in a new actor and make it look fairly seamless. Why isn't he just filming JL2 in his garage?
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Jun 15, 2021 09:55
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AFoolAndHisMoney posted:Holy poo poo. That's something that's always struck me about his films, big or small budget: you can see every dollar on the screen. You read about how much some movies cost and wonder where the money could have possibly gone (cocaine, obviously) Triple Frontier was the most dramatic example. 115 million for something that looks less interesting and less spectacular than your average straight to DVD action film.
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Jun 16, 2021 01:53
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Snowman_McK posted:That's something that's always struck me about his films, big or small budget: you can see every dollar on the screen. You read about how much some movies cost and wonder where the money could have possibly gone (cocaine, obviously) A better example would probably be the Marvel movies shot almost entirely in Atlanta like Captain America: Civil War which have gigantic budgets and look like poo poo. Just a bunch of people composited together on gray sets with white skies.
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Jun 16, 2021 04:43
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TychoCelchuuu posted:I absolutely get what you're saying but I think this is kind of unfair on Triple Frontier in particular. I don't know where they actually filmed it but it looked like they filmed it basically on location with a helicopter in the loving mountains and in a jungle. There wasn't much spectacle but the movie wasn't trying for spectacle. It was trying for Hurt Locker style faux verisimilitude, and I think it looked good with that goal in mind. It's not like Triple Frontier was trying to make a garish violent spectacle like Army of the Dead. Only one of those two movies bothered to spend significant time dwelling on (for instance) whether you can physically carry that much money in a helicopter, etc. Army of the Dead is not concerned with those sorts of details and it has an aesthetic to match. Triple Frontier is directly concerned with all those details and it has an aesthetic to match. I would buy that for Triple Frontier except, for however much they shot on location, its structured so that we just jump from one small area to another. We're in the house, we're at the airfield, we're in the village. There's no sense of scale or movement, which, to me at least, is the advantage of location shooting. You could never, for instance, recreate that shot from Aguirre of the conquistators firing the cannon into the jungle on a set, or, from Lawrence of Arabia, that shot of the guy riding out of the deep background. Even though it apparently isn't, it feels like a bunch of sets. Everything feels sterile and not filled in. Again, I buy that that's what they were doing and what the money went on, but it really wasn't on screen. It's kind of a poor movie in general so it's not massively surprising that the cinematography and mis en scene are as weak as everything else about it. A better comparison than the straight to DVD film might be, say, Sorceror.
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Jun 16, 2021 05:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Nothing is ‘granted by omission’; we could say that the zombies are brothers in Christ - or anything - because anyone even tangentially aware of Fast And The Furious knows that ‘family’ is a pretty elastic concept. Then don't omit counterpoints. I am not surprised you think it "only benefits me", because I am certain you have no real point to make beyond ad hominems. And yes, we're doing this. Tribe has an anthropological meaning and it isn't my fault that you're too much of a dunce to know that. Now, anthropology certainly has ethical issues to contend with, but one of them is not the fact they use the word "tribe" to describe a certain societal structure. The alphas do as Zeus commands. Their disinterest in biting someone could be entirely due to this and because Zeus wants to keep offerings coming - a point that I have already made and you've stupidly ignored. What is the purpose of offerings if they have no interest in expansion? They're not a family, after all. If they didn't want to expand, couldn't they accept something else as an offering besides a human that they then turn? They clearly have culture of some type, so offerings could be items, if it weren't for the purposes of expansion. Part of the problem is that your arguments for "racism" aren't based on anything in the text and my argument for expansionism is based on that, so while you can try to cast me as a bigot who seeks to indulge safely in racist fantasies, your arguments do not line up with the movie very well. They are most certainly not mindless, as evidenced by their calculation that attacking everyone who enters cuts down on the number of people entering and offering tributes, and they are very obviously interested in expansion by virtue of accepting those very same tributes. All these lazy, terrible arguments emerged from you, and yet you are unwilling to take responsibility for them. Roth posted:Excited to see how well the latest attempt to own SMG goes Swimmingly. Judakel fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jun 19, 2021 |
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Jun 18, 2021 23:45
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Judakel posted:The alphas do as Zeus commands. Zeus commanded the zombie tiger to take a nap on the hood of that car. This is canon.
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Jun 19, 2021 00:19
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ruddiger posted:Zeus commanded the zombie tiger to take a nap on the hood of that car. This is canon. The tiger is not an alpha.
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Jun 19, 2021 00:28
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tiger confirmed for shambler
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Jun 19, 2021 00:29
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