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Sydin posted:His (paraphrased) stance was basically that it's easy to look back on Japanese internment as morally reprehensible, but doing so ignores the unfathomable sense of fear and paranoia among Americans after Pearl Harbor, so can we *really* so cleanly say the people who carried out and supported internment were bad? I wonder if he’s capable of learning or course correcting for the future. He’s pretty quick to admit that he was never a historian, and I hope that extends to him saying “hey this was a terrible take and I apologize for it, here’s the result of that correction and what I’ve looked up on to fix it”. But who knows if he’s willing to do that in a world of doubling-down.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:36
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The one state that actually got attacked by the Japanese also opted out of doing internment, so the paranoia argument really rings hollow. Of course, if Hawaii did do internment, it would have to lock up 37% of its population.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:50
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Your point is absolutely correct, but since this is a history thread I feel like I wouldn't be a proper dork without pointing out that teeeecchnically the Fu-Go balloon bombs were also attacks on a number of states.
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Jun 9, 2021 20:59
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Those were also covered up so the paranoia couldn't really be scared of them directly.
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Jun 9, 2021 21:01
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SlothfulCobra posted:The one state that actually got attacked by the Japanese also opted out of doing internment, so the paranoia argument really rings hollow. Huh, good point
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Jun 9, 2021 21:02
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SlothfulCobra posted:The one state that actually got attacked by the Japanese also opted out of doing internment, so the paranoia argument really rings hollow. i mean it also wasnt a state yet. it was a territory so it had more ability to do so i believe.
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Jun 9, 2021 21:53
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Man, Kaldellis' podcast even has an episode on the Empire's depiction in video games with somebody from Paradox as a guest. This is a cross over I never expected and am very hyped for. Not sure whether to start there or with the Rus' episode... E: upon further inspection the video game episode is hella uninteresting PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jun 10, 2021 |
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Jun 10, 2021 02:49
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Man, Kaldellis' podcast even has an episode on the Empire's depiction in video games with somebody from Paradox as a guest. This is a cross over I never expected and am very hyped for. Is this the Kaldellis who has appeared a bunch of times on The History of Byzantium? If so, what's the name of his podcast?
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Jun 10, 2021 05:10
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I really like Carlin’s ancient history stuff because all of that is so separate from the modern world that I can lean into it just being stories. Hell, anything before the 20th century probably works for that. I listened to the first Supernova and just fell off after that. I’m looking forward to him doing something else now that this is done.
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Jun 10, 2021 11:53
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Jordan7hm posted:I really like Carlin’s ancient history stuff because all of that is so separate from the modern world that I can lean into it just being stories. Hell, anything before the 20th century probably works for that. Yeah, he is good until you get to like modern times(18th century to now) I love the munster episode even if it has flaws.
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Jun 10, 2021 12:24
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CommonShore posted:Is this the Kaldellis who has appeared a bunch of times on The History of Byzantium? If so, what's the name of his podcast? Byzantium & Friends.
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Jun 10, 2021 12:49
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I gotta say, the last ten minutes of Carlin's latest episode sure are something 
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Jun 10, 2021 14:44
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JaneError posted:Byzantium & Friends.  yesssssssssssssssssssssssss
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Jun 10, 2021 14:46
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Gaius Marius posted:In weird crossover news. The China history podcast has a new episode with Ian of forgotten weapons on YouTube. Aka gun jesus. Makes sense - Ian is writing a book on those guns right now, IIRC.
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Jun 10, 2021 19:29
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Gaius Marius posted:In weird crossover news. The China history podcast has a new episode with Ian of forgotten weapons on YouTube. Aka gun jesus. It's a real good episode too!
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Jun 11, 2021 08:18
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Omnicarus posted:I gotta say, the last ten minutes of Carlin's latest episode sure are something Just finished it yesterday and openly went "what the gently caress"
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Jun 12, 2021 17:48
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Lawman 0 posted:Just finished it yesterday and openly went "what the gently caress" I gave up on the latest series about 2 year ago and I'm not going to pick it up now. Can you summarise what insane poo poo he said?
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Jun 12, 2021 18:34
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I gave up on the latest series about 2 year ago and I'm not going to pick it up now. Can you summarise what insane poo poo he said? he said the holocaust had saved lots of lives and then I understood.
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Jun 12, 2021 18:48
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I never listened to his stuff but I had no idea Carlin was that stupid
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Jun 12, 2021 18:51
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But what if one of the Jews that hitler had killed was gonna grow up to be megahitler and was gonna Holocaust ten times as many people Did you ever think of that (I had some dumb gently caress try this argument with me once and I just about stroked out)
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Jun 12, 2021 18:54
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sexpig by night posted:I never listened to his stuff but I had no idea Carlin was that stupid I dunno the dude's production workflow or whatever but if you're gonna have a take as spicy as this on a topic as horrific as that....maybe run it by a few other people at the office? Ask some survivors or advocacy groups? I cant figure out why or how this made it to release.
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Jun 12, 2021 18:56
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Yeah, uh, what was the context for that?
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Jun 12, 2021 18:57
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I did like his WWI series. I don't want to go back and listen to it now.
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Jun 12, 2021 18:59
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You could tell he was going there from the first 10 minutes It’s not a spicy take. Maybe it is today. 20 years ago it was pretty mainstream Assuming we are talking about bombing Japan and not the capital H Holocaust
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Jun 12, 2021 18:59
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stealie72 posted:Yeah, uh, what was the context for that? There's the sort of calculus that was made where you can drop a few nukes on japan you can save a lot more american/japanese/civilian lives. Now apply it to the holocaust and how it being as bad as it is might have prevented potential genocides? He acknowledges that the holocaust didnt stop genocides from happening after but maybe its a silver lining by having the Big One so other genocides are less...big?
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Jun 12, 2021 19:00
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buglord posted:There's the sort of calculus that was made where you can drop a few nukes on japan you can save a lot more american/japanese/civilian lives. Now apply it to the holocaust and how it being as bad as it is might have prevented potential genocides? Ok that is a spicy take I misinterpreted sorry
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Jun 12, 2021 19:00
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euphronius posted:Ok that is a spicy take
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Jun 12, 2021 19:05
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stealie72 posted:Yeah, uh, what was the context for that? That having the experience of something like that in global memory helps to build a taboo around it happening again.
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Jun 12, 2021 19:15
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Except genocides never stopped so.
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Jun 12, 2021 19:19
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While it's a little nice that a lot of big countries around the world are on record that genocide is a bad thing that they're pledged to do something to prevent, in practice, we haven't seen much come of that. Mostly a lot of weird excuses to not notice when another country is doing something genocidal. I guess at least you could say that the eugenics movement took some severe hits after the Holocaust so there's less buzz about just sterilizing undesirables, but it still happens. A hot take to get attention that you really can't make reasonable at all.
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Jun 12, 2021 19:37
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Well the R2P people have no problem with their country supporting coups, starvation blockades, proxy wars, etc. so I'll go out on a limb and say they are lying.
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Jun 12, 2021 19:56
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Mantis42 posted:That having the experience of something like that in global memory helps to build a taboo around it happening again. for a man who runs a history podcast he should probably consider learning a drat thing about history
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Jun 12, 2021 20:26
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Mantis42 posted:That having the experience of something like that in global memory helps to build a taboo around it happening again. man this guy needs to learn some history!
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Jun 12, 2021 23:24
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Personally I am very glad the Holocaust shocked the world so deeply that no systemic genocides have taken place since.
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Jun 12, 2021 23:30
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it's a good thing the holocaust wasn't literally morally and logistically inspired by past genocides done by europe and america or that take would be insultingly stupid!
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Jun 12, 2021 23:32
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"Well it was horrible, but at least it was the war to end all wars, so its saved lives in the long run" - Dan Carlin if he was around in 1921
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Jun 13, 2021 02:00
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That is a spicy fuckin comfortable white guy take.
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Jun 13, 2021 03:19
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buglord posted:There's the sort of calculus that was made where you can drop a few nukes on japan you can save a lot more american/japanese/civilian lives. Now apply it to the holocaust and how it being as bad as it is might have prevented potential genocides? He acknowledges that the holocaust didnt stop genocides from happening after but maybe its a silver lining by having the Big One so other genocides are less...big? It was a year and a half ago (before covid!) that I wrote about quitting Carlin. The Japanese internment camp thing just up the page made me feel very comfortable with my decision. But also confused why people were still sounding so supportive of him. This is pretty yikes right here.
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Jun 13, 2021 03:30
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What I appreciate about that episode is that it gives the whole lie away about his old act that he was against American militarism. Like, he regurgitated the fourth grade level story that justified nuking Japan, which can be debunked by the most cursory reading of history, and then talks about how the Japanese were grateful for us bringing democracy. Bill Kristol would have taken another pass at this. Not to mention that he has gone on the record in the past of being suspicious of liberal interventionist narratives for foreign wars, which pretty much always boil down to preventing the Holocaust. And yet genocides continue to happen throughout the 20th century regardless. What a poo poo show. Flip Yr Wig fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 13, 2021 16:29
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Weird Sandwich posted:"Well it was horrible, but at least it was the war to end all wars, so its saved lives in the long run" 
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