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Another theory day. Recalculating the layout based on the offset version (which is a bit tricky because the top isn't bound anywhere). These numbers are more precise than I'm going to be able (or have need to) replicate, but may as well maintain precision while it's easy to do so.  A selection of arbitrary perpendiculars gives us the position of the top of the board.   Intersection gives us our first step.  Marked and drawn.  New layout should fit OK. Again numbered the same as the actual board so I can refer to it easily.  A bit more geometry gives me an actual offset number.  We're getting real close to that nib wall, but it should be OK.  I'd like to put in the other stringer tomorrow and if all's well I can remark the boards and do the final cuts. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 20:50
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Any reason you don't use some sort of CAD?
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Jun 6, 2021 02:32
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brugroffil posted:Any reason you don't use some sort of CAD? I've still not found one I like that isn't either very expensive or shittily licenced.
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Jun 6, 2021 06:18
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Final addition to the drawing done.   I'm happy enough with the result. It's a bit of a compromise all round but a good one I think. I will need to cut/route two new steps into the stringers, though, since we have half a step depth to account for at the top.  That should be fine, I still have the template and I haven't actually adjusted the router at all since I did these. Still has the bit in it. Might even be at the right cut depth.
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Jun 6, 2021 17:55
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Slow progress is still progress!
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Jun 7, 2021 13:56
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Dug out the routing template. Clamped in place.  Router was indeed still set up from when I did the last ones, depth stop & all.  You've seen me do a dozen of these so I'll skip to the end.  Lop off the extra.  And on the other end of both boards.  They happily line up. I wasn't expecting them not to, but it's always good when it does.     Still a bit more to do – some rebates and slots to route in, a carriage to add to the cut stringer – before I can move on to cutting the risers to size. I've got some tools to make at some point (new cross-cut sled, router table insert), and will need to figure out the easiest way to cut wedges. Open to suggestion on any or all of those since there's lots of approaches for each. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 12:14
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I've also politely hassled the gently caress out of the landscapers and talked to them today, all being well the clearance and new fencing will happen some time next week. I'll believe it when I see it, but that's the current plan.
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Jun 9, 2021 12:36
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Did a measure on the skirting and architrave. Architrave I think will wind up narrower than that, I think maybe 67mm is what they have in stock, or something. Might not be final price, I've asked them what bulk discounts they can offer at this volume.  Also gathered together some of the old floorboards and de-nailed some. Plenty more still to go. 
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Jun 13, 2021 07:38
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If you are thinking of using those old floor boards as flooring don't bother just get t and g chipboard. How do you not already have a trade account with all the merchants?
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Jun 13, 2021 09:56
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CancerCakes posted:How do you not already have a trade account with all the merchants? Because I'm not trade. I'm not going to legally bind my non-construction company to material purchasing, and they in any case want evidence of materials purchased by the company for company use, so they do care, and while I could walk the line it's basically fraud and not worth risking my business over.
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Jun 13, 2021 10:08
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Timber merchant came back with a good discount on the MDF mouldings, unfortunately that discount was entirely wiped out by the 30% price increase that happened some time between me sending the email yesterday and the quote being written this morning. It looks like they're not going to honour the previous prices. I've put out a request for quotes from other merchants in the area and I'll probably go with the cheapest. Is there actually such a thing as "good" and "bad" quality MDF anyway?
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Jun 14, 2021 15:16
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There are different grades and qualities of MDF but I have no idea how they differ in detail or in practice. If I’m remembering right, I think the better stuff is more consistent all the way through, whereas cheaper stuff is very compressed and dense on the surface but less so in the middle? Probably also better glues, more consistent particle size? Your friendly, hopefully educated sales rep might know if you ask?
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Jun 14, 2021 15:52
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:There are different grades and qualities of MDF but I have no idea how they differ in detail or in practice. If I’m remembering right, I think the better stuff is more consistent all the way through, whereas cheaper stuff is very compressed and dense on the surface but less so in the middle? Probably also better glues, more consistent particle size? Your friendly, hopefully educated sales rep might know if you ask? Thing is I’m not sure a sales rep will cop to selling low quality products when they only have one type.
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Jun 14, 2021 16:02
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could always wait just a bit for lumber's big price fall to work its way down the supply chain again https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1404440155541417986
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Jun 14, 2021 16:07
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Yeah unless you desperately need stuff immediately I would wait a month. I bought some boards to finish the play house that I'm building because it is a birthday present, but they were not cheap. I haven't had any issues with mdf mouldings, just get the pre primed because it saves you time and means they are less likely to swell. Store fully supported and flat or you end up with banana architraves...
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Jun 14, 2021 16:23
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brugroffil posted:could always wait just a bit for lumber's big price fall to work its way down the supply chain again That's useful information, thanks! I'm not in a rush to get the mouldings, I just wanted to push on the interior a little as they're a major blocker, but they can wait a bit.
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Jun 14, 2021 16:39
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Jaded Burnout posted:Thing is I’m not sure a sales rep will cop to selling low quality products when they only have one type. https://mdfskirtingworld.co.uk/blog/the-difference-between-mdf/? If possible, I personally would use solid wood for baseboard/skirting and door trim. MDF is great for crown etc. but door casings and baseboard take a decent bit of abuse and solid lumber will definitely wear better over time. Jaded Burnout posted:That's useful information, thanks! I'm not in a rush to get the mouldings, I just wanted to push on the interior a little as they're a major blocker, but they can wait a bit. E: With the current mess in international shipping (how much MDF does the UK produce domestically? lol) my suppliers in the interior wood world seem to think things are probably going to get worse before they better-the 30% price hike you just saw may be part of that. All that to say, if I could predict the price of XYZ in 6 months I wouldn't be making cabinets for a living, lol. Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 17:40
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I found this-obviously they sell MDF stuff so they are gonna say theirs is better and worth the extra money. That was my original plan, but for some issues: 1. I was concerned that I'd not be able to route channels in the back since they only sell doubled-up patterns, but perhaps that's mistaken thinking as I could presumably route out some of the second pattern 2. I'm now concerned that, since the bottom is most likely to take a kick, that the second pattern will represent a weak spot for the board to break. 3. It was considerably more expensive. I say was because as of today's price hike, they're comparable in price. 4. Will have to paint and prime it all which is cost and time. Whatchoo think? https://www.alsfordtimber.com/timbe...5mm-pr25125mtos Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Obviously the whole world is crazy rn, but the lumber price in that graph is very specifically dimension framing lumber and has very little relationship to the price of MDF or tulip or whatever else your mouldings might be made of. The framing lumber price is like 3x what it was 18 months ago-the price of tulip poplar (what most interior mouldings in the US are made of) is up like, 15-20%. The price of OSB sheathing is 4x what it was 18 months ago, but as far as I can tell, the price of MDF to build cabinets with is only up 10-15%. Things may be very different in the UK, but in my world of interior woodwork, availability is really more the issue than price atm. Piss Kaiser Schnitzel posted:E: With the current mess in international shipping (how much MDF does the UK produce domestically? lol) my suppliers in the interior wood world seem to think things are probably going to get worse before they better-the 30% price hike you just saw may be part of that. All that to say, if I could predict the price of XYZ in 6 months I wouldn't be making cabinets for a living, lol. Heck if I know.
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Jun 14, 2021 18:06
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Jaded Burnout posted:That was my original plan, but for some issues:
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Jun 14, 2021 18:26
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:E: With the current mess in international shipping (how much MDF does the UK produce domestically? lol) my suppliers in the interior wood world seem to think things are probably going to get worse before they better-the 30% price hike you just saw may be part of that. All that to say, if I could predict the price of XYZ in 6 months I wouldn't be making cabinets for a living, lol. 
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Jun 14, 2021 18:28
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Jaded Burnout posted:Heck if I know. All the plywood i got through doing my van came from china. I suspect MDF is likely similar. If the lack of the MDF moldings is holding up other works, you could just buy enough now to do 1 or 2 rooms such that you can then move them onto the next jobs and sort the rest later. I know it makes it slightly more complicated and isn't as tidy sequentially, but if it means you're not totally stalled on everything it is well worth it.
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Jun 14, 2021 21:04
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Tomarse posted:All the plywood i got through doing my van came from china. I suspect MDF is likely similar. Nah it's not blocking literally everything, but the things it is blocking it's blocking across the board. Plus I don't get bulk discounts if I buy piecemeal. Plenty to do in the meantime.
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Jun 14, 2021 22:13
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I found this-obviously they sell MDF stuff so they are gonna say theirs is better and worth the extra money. I've just gotten around to reading that. "High Density MDF"?? So, "High Density Medium Density Fibreboard"? I've gotten a quote back from another supplier and it's £700 delivered for the whole house including a 10% discount, vs £1200 from the other folks (that includes a 30% discount). I've asked for samples.
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Jun 15, 2021 08:45
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I've contacted half a dozen local-ish timber suppliers for quotes and found out from them the two-or-so suppliers that they use to get their pre-primed mouldings from. I've then spoken to *them* and a) asked for samples, b) found out who *their* suppliers of MDF are. Turns out we both manufacture and import it here depending on who you go with. Also turns out nobody up the chain really wants to make it easy to find out (or doesn't care enough to know) what the makeup of the wood in their boards is, so long as it's FSC certified. I'll see how the samples hold up and then make a decision.
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Jun 15, 2021 16:27
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No offence but this feels like an excess of due diligence
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Jun 15, 2021 19:45
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A side effect of the retailer not wanting to cut up their precious boards as samples.
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Jun 15, 2021 19:55
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Jaded Burnout posted:I've just gotten around to reading that. "High Density MDF"?? So, "High Density Medium Density Fibreboard"? I don't understand how someone wrote that article which includes an intro saying what "MDF" stands for and then continued to say "high density MDF" and "low density MDF" rather than calling it HDF or LDF
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Jun 16, 2021 12:14
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They're called both, low density fibre board is referred to both as ldf and l-mdf, because nothing makes sense and words don't mean anything. That said: LDF - less than 650 kg / m3. MDF - from 650 to 800 kg / m3. HDF - over 750 kg / m3 Note the overlap between mdf and hdf. It's all MDF, the numbers mean nothing, you need samples or just accept it's the wood equivalent of damp biscuits.
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Jun 16, 2021 12:27
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Yeah I was annoyed by it but at the same time I've seen enough standards that having lovely confusing names is absolutely possible, especially when "MDF" becomes synonymous with "fibreboard". I will say also that I'm not doing all this investigation for the fun of it, just that I need some way of gauging whether or not the product is rugged or not before buying, and due to the nature of supply chains keep getting referred upwards. W Howard appears to be a major MDF supplier in the UK (i.e. they supply the pre-primed MDF mouldings to retailers, made from locally made MDF that they purchase), and they're sending me a sample, so that will do me for any retailer that buys from them (which is two of the quotes I have, so far). Since they're sending me samples I can stop looking at *their* suppliers. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 12:58
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If you want "rugged" MDF will probably disappoint you regardless. Comedy option get custom extruded uhmw profile.
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Jun 16, 2021 13:32
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Why don't you just get regular wood instead of mdf
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Jun 16, 2021 14:35
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cakesmith handyman posted:If you want "rugged" MDF will probably disappoint you regardless. More rugged than poo poo MDF is fine, I just need it to not crumble on light contact. brugroffil posted:Why don't you just get regular wood instead of mdf Well, several reasons. 1. It's more stable 2. It's easier to machine precisely, which is not super important for installing it, but useful when combined with #3 3. It's easier to patch and match existing 4. It's less than a third of the cost 5. It comes pre-primed and can go straight on the wall without setting up a 5m long painting & drying area, or having to do 3 coats while it's on the wall 6. Did I mention it's under a third of the cost? So while I know that MDF is never going to be as hardy as regular planks, as long as it's not cardboard dogshit then it wins out for me here.
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Jun 16, 2021 14:51
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FWIW I've got contractor-grade MDF skirtings and architrave and 2 kids and a dog and most of it hasn't been repainted in the 6 years I've been here and it's still fine. The dog definitely hasn't been repainted before you ask.
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Jun 16, 2021 17:27
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The first coat of paint holds up well?
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Jun 16, 2021 17:52
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Adequate, considering the abuse it's had. Unless I wanted stained wood I'd recommend MDF mouldings any day.Jaded Burnout posted:6. Did I mention it's under a third of the cost?
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Jun 16, 2021 18:45
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Well obviously I wasn't clear enough asking about your implication that the dog had been painted once.
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Jun 16, 2021 19:24
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satin paint with marrowbone jelly gives a wonderful silky coat
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Jun 16, 2021 19:26
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Adequate considering the abuse it's had.
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Jun 16, 2021 19:38
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Due to a Liquid Incident my laptop currently looks like it was disassembled by a curious alien. I'm waiting on some parts before I can put it back together so no posting about the skirting/architrave samples yet as there is useful picture evidence for that discussion. I can tell you that it has passed the test and I'm setting up an order with a supplier now. I've also been keeping in touch with the landscapers, they *should* be starting the clearance this week and the fencing after that, they're finishing up another job today or tomorrow and I'm supposedly next on the list. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 10:10
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Alright, some catch up. Received the MDF moulding samples. These are from the company that supplies the company I'm buying from.  The finish where it's been milled is.. not great. I contacted them about this and they pointed to their installation instructions which say "lightly sand before painting", so I guess that's that.   Time for some stress testing.  Deliberately marred both the MDF and my softwood workbench with the same force to compare damage. MDF took some damage but came out on top.   I then set one piece up against a wall and booted it as hard as I could with my steel toe cap workboots. Made a mark but not much of one, the brown swipes here are the mud transferred from my boot.   As another comparison I took an offcut from the stair stringers since they are "paint quality" softwood boards from the same timber yard that I was originally talking to, so they're probably a good representation of what their softwood (non-MDF) mouldings would be like. It fared even worse than the construction timber used in my workbench.  I've also been using one of the samples as a coaster for my condensation-heavy water bottle for the last couple of days, with pretty good results. So, other than the (grim determination and) sanding that's going to be needed for the MDF, I'm happy with it. There's no evidence that buying the softwood mouldings would've got me a sturdier product. I also shopped around and placed the order today, the final cost is £570 delivered inc VAT for the whole house of skirting and architrave, which is a quarter to an eighth of the online (non-discount) price from the original yard. Also, landscapers have finally confirmed they're showing up on Friday, Saturday, Monday, and, if needed, Wednesday. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 19:46
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