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Spazzle posted:This doesn't follow at all. How does it not follow? The mechanism by which the delta variant is more contagious (by binding more strongly to ACE2) is well-understood and researchers have been able to re-create it fairly easily in pseudoviruses. If you're a state actor/Resident Evil villain who is actually engineering a bioweapon for some reason, it is entirely possible to have had these traits in your virus from the very beginning, and no guarantee that they will develop out in the wild.
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Jun 15, 2021 21:01
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You are making the assumption that they were already studying the most potent version possible. They very well could have been studying a mild virus (which tracks with the lack of proper PPE) which escaped because of the lack of proper safe guards.
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Jun 15, 2021 21:26
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gbs is an engineered disease but luckily the r0 is below 1
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Jun 15, 2021 21:30
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Inept posted:gbs is an engineered disease but luckily the r0 is below 1 The only cure is 
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Jun 15, 2021 21:32
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MarcusSA posted:You are making the assumption that they were already studying the most potent version possible. They very well could have been studying a mild virus (which tracks with the lack of proper PPE) which escaped because of the lack of proper safe guards. I wasn't talking about the overall lab leak theory. This was the statement that the person I was replying to said "doesn't follow at all"... LanceHunter posted:And lab leak or no, the bigger implication (that this was an engineered virus/some kind of bioweapon) is demonstrably false because if it were actually engineered then we wouldn't be seeing the more effective variants coming out.
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Jun 15, 2021 21:40
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Assuming complete competency feels like a mistake there. It could just be a lovely bioweapon. Not saying it is a bioweapon but saying it could be more potent isnt really a great argument against it. Tons of people suck at their jobs.
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Jun 15, 2021 21:43
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Londoners still have a strong-ish mask game in public transportation or indoor areas when it's required (masking up when they get up for the toilet etc.), markets are like 80% (?) with masks but I have noticed a decline in cleaning stations or sanitizers, in some places they are either reduced or not refilled but that might be just a coincidence. I still mask up, hand sanitize twice and spray the shopping carts/baskets and religiously wash my hands whenever. Haven't had a flu since like 2019 which usually knocked me out for a week each year so I guess that's a silver lining. Social distancing is...okay? The busses are much crowded now and people just sit next to each other now, the tube is still empty now that central London is a now a ghost town but I see way more people each time I go to the Bank station. The delay of ~*Freedom Day*~ (  ) hosed up nightlife venues once again, it's still a hassle to go to my favorite bars and venues as they are booking only and I don't feel like traveling to Brixton to be turned down as a walk-in. Increasingly more places switching to "walk-in only" which is a good thing, international travel is still a no-no so tough poo poo Cornwallians (?) enjoy the hordes of Londoners descend on your beaches and complain about absence of acai flavored IPAs or some poo poo  Pretty much everyone I know in here is now at least one dose of 5G juice and seeing them makes me 
Galewolf fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 21:53
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Galewolf posted:international travel is still a no-no so tough poo poo Cornwallians (?) enjoy the hordes of Londoners descend on your beaches and complain about absence of acai flavored IPAs or some poo poo For common people its "cornish" and for fancy people "corn wallis"
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Jun 15, 2021 22:14
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A Fancy Hat posted:It's terrifying to think that a random set of circumstances could create a similar pandemic, I think that's why so many people want the lab leak to be true. Then you can say "Ohhh it's China's fault, that won't happen again, let's hold them accountable for it!" Pretty much this, reality is terrifying and peoples lizard brains would prefer everything is neatly planned out rather than two pangolions getting freaky in a market with a bat causing another SARS variant that didn't burn out this time.
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Jun 15, 2021 22:44
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A Fancy Hat posted:It's terrifying to think that a random set of circumstances could create a similar pandemic, I think that's why so many people want the lab leak to be true. Then you can say "Ohhh it's China's fault, that won't happen again, let's hold them accountable for it!" I mean your wider point, sure, but JFK is a real loving bad example to illustrate it
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Jun 15, 2021 22:47
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Payday was yesterday which means there's 800 pounds of feed in my van right now, all for the farm. 0 people in Tractor Supply had on a mask. 3 did at Walmart, a new record for that particular one. The Petsmart and Petco curbside people did not have face masks. Hollywood Feeds did! The lab leak thing feels like an excuse to go to war with China, to me, but I loving hope not. My spouse gets out in 2022. 17 months. Just gently caress off on wars until then.
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Jun 15, 2021 23:08
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Genuine question, not doing a bit, is it not something of a monumental coincidence that COVID first cropped up in the vicinity of a lab that literally was working on engineering coronavirus variants that could infect humans? I get that there's a chicken and egg thing here, what with it being located not far from nice quantities of bats, but even still. Hell of an incidental detail from a layman's POV. I wouldn't buy for a second it was intentional, but lab leaks happen not infrequently. Is there some meta-knowledge or masterstroke detail that basically explains that away?
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Jun 15, 2021 23:27
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Jeza posted:Genuine question, not doing a bit, is it not something of a monumental coincidence that COVID first cropped up in the vicinity of a lab that literally was working on engineering coronavirus variants that could infect humans? I get that there's a chicken and egg thing here, what with it being located not far from nice quantities of bats, but even still. Hell of an incidental detail from a layman's POV. I guess the problem with the "accidental lab leak" theory, which iunno sounds plausible enough if you remove it from insanely dumb political implications if it were provably true, is that if that became the mainstream narrative, there'd be a much bigger proportion of people jumping into the "plandemic, population control, bioweapon, war with china, sparkles on your pores, boot camp, what planet are those booty shorts from, that giraffe has a nice rear end, and other kool keith lyrics" side of things, so it's kind of problematic to even publicly explore. I think that regardless of if the lab hosed up and spread a new virus, their risky-rear end research (amplifying novel coronaviruses to try to figure out what to do about them if they got out) did NOT loving HELP AT ALL with the exact situation they justified their research with. They were supposed to know what to do about this poo poo they were studying, handle it better and such. The fact that Fauci and that other guy with the Stroszek-sounding name were directly involved with funding that lab and that research has sorta meant that some very prominent voices were able to immediately clamp down on such talk as the "kool keith lyrics" type insanity. So maybe the "just asking questions" brigade will forever have questions to ask. But at the very least a discussion needs to be had about whether it's a good idea to run that kind of research at all given the risks and now-clear lack of rewards.
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Jun 16, 2021 00:13
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Deep Glove Bruno posted:I think that regardless of if the lab hosed up and spread a new virus, their risky-rear end research (amplifying novel coronaviruses to try to figure out what to do about them if they got out) did NOT loving HELP AT ALL with the exact situation they justified their research with. They were supposed to know what to do about this poo poo they were studying, handle it better and such. 
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Jun 16, 2021 00:23
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Jeza posted:Genuine question, not doing a bit, is it not something of a monumental coincidence that COVID first cropped up in the vicinity of a lab that literally was working on engineering coronavirus variants that could infect humans? I get that there's a chicken and egg thing here, what with it being located not far from nice quantities of bats, but even still. Hell of an incidental detail from a layman's POV. they've denied doing that research and if they were it would have been pretty apparent from the early genetic samples we had when the outbreak was first kicking off. the genetic samples we got DID align with plenty of samples we've found in the wild from bats after subsequent studies this only leaves that they were doing it intentionally, lying about it, and also covering their tracks. while theoretically possible this changes the lab from being just a research lab to a bonafide bioweapons facility. which it isn't the medium.com blog that kicked this nonsense off admits this too- but doesn't even seem to notice their own contradiction. like they straight up say that it's possible to cover up genetic gain of function changes if you're motivated and know what you're doing, and that the possibility of this means we have to take it as a possibility. it then moves on to say that the lab was doing gain of function research and just hosed up and it got out and whoops aren't they bad. it can't be both. you can't have it both ways. period
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Jun 16, 2021 00:26
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If I'm wrong, I'll accept being corrected because I'm still delirious and seriously lacking sleep, but it seems everyone who has had at least one shot so far in Alberta qualifies for our lottery. I've had two so I think I'm entered in all 3 one million dollar giveaways this summer. I didn't need any bribing, but I'll take the money, heck yeah 
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Jun 16, 2021 00:27
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at the end of the day you have to place your trust in someone or something. so you can either trust the global network of epidemiologists who've studied this their entire lives who all saw nothing suspicious at all for months or a guy with a blog who isn't even a biologist who wrote a 'race realism' book by misinterpreting a bunch of smarter scientists' work
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Jun 16, 2021 00:29
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I can't imagine it could ever be proven as long as the Chinese regime is in power if it is the result of a 'lab leak,' but it really doesnt matter. SARS-COVID-1 started without a lab leak, so a lab leak isn't necessary. Whether the ultimate origin was a laboratory leak or whether it was reckless negligent indefensible handling of wild animals as magical medicine food again like last time, the Chinese regime is still ultimately responsible for permitting the conditions. And either way, what we do know for sure is that once the virus was identified and spreading, the Chinese government / police are guilty of terrible wrongdoing by lying about it and trying to cover it up instead of warning the world and containing it. And that misbehavior is completely inexcusable and unforgivable. For a long time people liked to believe that unlimited trade and integration with CPC China had no risks or downside. If what the communists did only hurt Chinese people, what did it matter to companies or consumers in the west? But this was never true, there were grave risks and we've been paying the bill for the past year and a half now. Sanctions, embargoes, indemnities. No trade without reform.
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Jun 16, 2021 00:29
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pretty sure a lab studying virus genetics didn't help china with its lockdown policy, and sinovax is the three legged dog of the covid vaccines
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Jun 16, 2021 00:30
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PIZZA.BAT posted:at the end of the day you have to place your trust in someone or something. 
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Jun 16, 2021 00:33
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PIZZA.BAT posted:at the end of the day you have to place your trust in someone or something. so you can either trust the global network of epidemiologists who've studied this their entire lives who all saw nothing suspicious at all for months or a guy with a blog who isn't even a biologist who wrote a 'race realism' book by misinterpreting a bunch of smarter scientists' work a very fair point. what do I know and what difference does it make in the end. I don't want somebody agitating for geopolitical consequences beyond what's already happened based on this anyway
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Jun 16, 2021 00:33
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hakimashou posted:I can't imagine it could ever be proven as long as the Chinese regime is in power if it is the result of a 'lab leak,' but it really doesnt matter. SARS-COVID-1 started without a lab leak, so a lab leak isn't necessary. exactly. i don't understand why the usual suspects latched onto the lab leak theory in the first place because, for them, it isn't even rhetorically necessary! we've known their markets and mishandling of wild animals was going to lead to the next pandemic, just as it had led to the previous close calls
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Jun 16, 2021 00:39
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I don't know if Jon Stewart always had a Michael Crichton anti-science bent, or if that's new brainworms for him, but it's regrettable to see someone generally identified as leftist spouting conspiracy theory bullshit that only serves to prop up a pro-Trump narrative. If it was a lab leak then that's unfortunate but not surprising or unprecedented, and speculation about it being a bioweapon is dancing happily toward Jewish space laser land. Obsessing about origins only helps the people who have treated covid as a political issue all along, and is inane and absurd otherwise. I think I've previously posted a Mother Jones article from last year on the subject, but I guess I'll post it again just in case. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/05/the-non-paranoid-persons-guide-to-viruses-escaping-from-labs/
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Jun 16, 2021 00:53
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MarcusSA posted:So you dont have sick time then? Allow me to be more specific. Because Goons love to assume poo poo. I just recently got this job in a very high position at a Medical logistics company. Mainly we develop Covid-19 kits as well as other medical kits used in hospitals all over the US and in other areas around the world. They know -of- my previous Covid situation, but I felt terrible calling out sick just two months into my employment. Thankfully they understood and sent me home. Coming into work sick is a big no no especially because you have to handle the parts within the kit needed for someone in need. These things go to someone's family in dire need of a transplant or something. But in my position; I am above the quality standard. I direct it. So me calling out is like a missing cog in a giant wheel. And being fresh into this new job kinda hurts my professional reputation. I am just very thankful they gave me an extra day to recover and they even thanked me for actually getting the shot. Even though Covid might be over for a lot of people and cases are going down. Take it from me: No the gently caress it isn't. And its still all hands on deck to make sure these get developed on time and out the door as quickly as possible.
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Jun 16, 2021 01:02
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Deep Glove Bruno posted:pretty sure a lab studying virus genetics didn't help china with its lockdown policy, and sinovax is the three legged dog of the covid vaccines Apart from, perhaps, "hey this is really loving bad you can't business-as-usual your way through it"
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Jun 16, 2021 01:03
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Picnic Princess posted:If I'm wrong, I'll accept being corrected because I'm still delirious and seriously lacking sleep, but it seems everyone who has had at least one shot so far in Alberta qualifies for our lottery. I've had two so I think I'm entered in all 3 one million dollar giveaways this summer. I didn't need any bribing, but I'll take the money, heck yeah I'm with you on that I've been chasing it as fast as I could go either way, but if Fat Hitler wants to try and bribe his base to open for stampede, I'll take it
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Jun 16, 2021 02:56
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Spinz posted:For me it's a simple issue of geography, it's not about laying blame less blame anything like that. Our scientists and labs could also have an accident whatever. I was talking about biosecurity in another thread and when I went and looked up the list of all the BSL-4 facilities in the world I discovered that there's one within walking distance of my house, and another in my state that's researching ebola, hendra, SARS and similar.  Apparently it takes an entire hour for the scientists in that lab to just get through the security protocols to reach the central high security section where the viruses are stored so I'm pretty confident that there won't be anything escaping because of a simple mistake https://www.sbs.com.au/news/a-rare-look-inside-australia-s-high-security-ebola-lab
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Jun 16, 2021 07:46
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Weird that they would choose to build a virus research facility in the type of region and environment where SARS-1, bird flu, swine flu, etc originated. It's also weird how so few people are 'just asking questions' about how this could have been handled better. The lack of action after the pandemic started is somehow above criticism for most of these people.
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Jun 16, 2021 08:21
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Lab leaks do happen and have caused disease outbreaks. Just in 2007 the last outbreak of Foot & Mouth disease in the UK was caused by a faulty pipe connecting a Government lab and neighbouring vaccine facility. This is primarily an animal disease but its a fair comparison for crap happens.
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Jun 16, 2021 08:32
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New case in Sydney, and his job was to drive international flight crews from the airport to their mandatory quarantine hotels. Was he vaccinated? Of course not.
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Jun 16, 2021 09:31
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:New case in Sydney, and his job was to drive international flight crews from the airport to their mandatory quarantine hotels. WTF? His age and occupation should have put him at the front of the queue for it. Ill reserve judgement until its said why he wasnt. Could be the feds fault, could be his.
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Jun 16, 2021 09:37
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You'd think that a first world country [citation needed] went full on medieval moat and drawbridge had better prepped for vaccinations but 2.7% fully vaccinated as of now? The gently caress? What's the hold up here, supply? Anti-vax?
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Jun 16, 2021 09:57
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Galewolf posted:You'd think that a first world country [citation needed] went full on medieval moat and drawbridge had better prepped for vaccinations but 2.7% fully vaccinated as of now? The gently caress? It's partially due to vaccine complacency but the main problem is that the federal government locked in deals for enough doses for the entire country plus extra for surrounding island nations really early on and then spent several months strutting around like peacocks bragging about what an awesome job they did and then the EU went "Uhhh actually we need most of those doses ourselves, plus you guys don't even have covid any more so we're just not going to fulfill most of your order  " so we hardly have any vaccines.We have a single vaccine factory set up in Melbourne but it only makes AstraZeneca and because of the blood clot issue we're only giving AZ to people over 50 and a lot of them aren't real keen on getting it. Early on people were calling for the government to invest in mRNA production facilities but they argued they wouldn't be necessary, and then a few weeks ago they suddenly went "Ooh maybe that'd be a good idea after all" and threw some money into it, and then announced it might be up and running in 4 years time. All through this the federal government has refused to admit that they'd hosed up the vaccine shipment deals so they pivoted hard into the message "It's not a race!" and downplayed the entire thing, which only served to fuel the population's vaccine complacency even further. When we had a recent outbreak in Melbourne and had to lock down the city for 2 weeks that spurred a lot of people into booking their jab but it looks like interest only lasted a week and then waned again, and there was no noticeable jump in vaxx rates in the other states: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518?nw=0 We also have a small but very vocal number of hardcore anti-vaxxers and LOTS AND LOTS of right-leaning conservative idiots who might be leaning towards anti-vax but after 6 months the rollout is still in in such early stages that we can't really tell if they're having any effect on the vax numbers.
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Jun 16, 2021 10:18
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:[A good post] Thank you very much for the above post, this explains quite a lot. I mean, I'm sure some Australians would love the prospect of forever closed off country but having an unvaxxed country with no internal restrictions sounds pretty  and hopefully you'll catch up. Even the world leader on vaccine skepticism France is like at 21% fully vaxxed with 40 mil. first doses, 
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Jun 16, 2021 11:00
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Helith posted:WTF? His age and occupation should have put him at the front of the queue for it. "a driver in a role which includes transporting international air crew." Code for 100% a contractor or Uber driver or some poo poo. Galewolf posted:Thank you very much for the above post, this explains quite a lot. I mean, I'm sure some Australians would love the prospect of forever closed off country but having an unvaxxed country with no internal restrictions sounds pretty Well yeah it's easy when you can manufacture the stuff
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Jun 16, 2021 13:31
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:that's some impressively lovely advice from a doctor. I'm sorry. Is kiddo feelin' better? She is a bit better although today is day 6 with a fever. She tested positive for RSV although she may have had that a month ago. Basically she was in isolation for a year and then went to preschool and got sick within 4 days. I guess her immune system wasn't ready. We are giving suppositories because she just refuses any medication. They tried to force some down her throat and the nurses said she was probably the best they've ever seen at resisting.
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Jun 16, 2021 13:34
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:New case in Sydney, and his job was to drive international flight crews from the airport to their mandatory quarantine hotels. The government should procure vehicles where the driver is walled off from the passengers, and they should have done it last year. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 13:38
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CarlosTheDwarf posted:She is a bit better although today is day 6 with a fever. She tested positive for RSV although she may have had that a month ago. Basically she was in isolation for a year and then went to preschool and got sick within 4 days. I guess her immune system wasn't ready. Day 6 with a fever, holy hell. My heart goes out to you and your girl, that would be so difficult to deal with.
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Jun 16, 2021 13:40
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A Strange Aeon posted:Day 6 with a fever, holy hell. My heart goes out to you and your girl, that would be so difficult to deal with. it is, especially since I've been sick from the same thing but no puking or fever thankfully.
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Jun 16, 2021 13:46
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Platystemon posted:The government should have procured vehicles where the driver was walled off from the passengers, and they should have done it last year. Reminds me of when the UK first started flying in their citizens who'd been in the Wuhan area right at the start of the pandemic and when they arrived at the airport they were met by staff in full PPE who guided them onto buses so they could be whisked away to quarantine    The bus company released a statement saying it was perfectly fine for their drivers not to wear any PPE at all since all the passengers had been screened multiple times before they'd been allowed on the flight. But don't worry! They also announced they'd be deep cleaning the buses afterwards! 
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Jun 16, 2021 13:47
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