|
Re driving proficiency, I'm literally getting car driving lessons right now (well, 10 minutes ago). I'm on my second lesson. "don't coast to a junction". "I wasn't coasting, I had the clutch in and was braking at the same time". "that counts as coasting". "it's not coasting, if I am using the brake, I am controlling the car". "it's coasting as far as the examiner is concerned". "ok fine, I'll just engine brake and brake, and not clutch to the junction". "yes". 
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 11:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:52 |
|
|
Steakandchips posted:Re driving proficiency, I'm literally getting car driving lessons right now (well, 10 minutes ago). I'm on my second lesson. Where is this? My test was 20 years ago but the examiner definitely did not care about coasting while braking before an intersection. Not that licensing is particularly rigorous in the US.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 12:03
|
|
|
I mean, yeah, that's not inconsistent. Having the clutch in reduces your stopping power by a lot. From a teaching perspective it makes sense they'd tell you the safest way to drive.ought ten posted:Where is this? My test was 20 years ago but the examiner definitely did not care about coasting while braking before an intersection. Not that licensing is particularly rigorous in the US. Steak's in the UK iirc. Motorcycle instructors here will also tell you not to coast. The technical reason is because it counts as not having full control of the vehicle, the practical reason is because as mentioned it negatively impacts your ability to do an emergency stop. Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Jun 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 12:07
|
|
|
Steakandchips posted:Re driving proficiency, I'm literally getting car driving lessons right now (well, 10 minutes ago). I'm on my second lesson. Yeah, clutch in = coasting, whether you are braking or not. The same would apply on a bike as far as I know?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 13:25
|
|
|
Renaissance Robot posted:I mean, yeah, that's not inconsistent. Having the clutch in reduces your stopping power by a lot. From a teaching perspective it makes sense they'd tell you the safest way to drive. Yeah it makes sense. But I never heard about it. I would be interested to see some stopping distance comparisons. For the US, even 20 years ago manuals were getting unusual enough that instructors/examiners might have just stopped thinking about it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 13:35
|
|
|
Carteret posted:Seriously. Sitting in "drivers training" at Fort Bragg in the early 00's with three 18 yo female soldiers from NYC who had never driven suddenly being behind the wheel of a 5 Ton MTV was harrowing.  , huh?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 14:46
|
|
|
Renaissance Robot posted:I mean, yeah, that's not inconsistent. Having the clutch in reduces your stopping power by a lot. From a teaching perspective it makes sense they'd tell you the safest way to drive. Who comes up with this stuff? Any modern car can easily exceed the tire grip with just the brakes. In fact, what happens in a manual trans car with no ABS when you stand on the brakes without disengaging the clutch? I guess the engine dies and then you let off the brakes but continue sliding because now you've got a stopped engine providing resistance?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 16:45
|
|
|
I can't wait to just have the car license, buy a shitter and just forget it till I need it a handful of times a year.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 17:52
|
|
|
HenryJLittlefinger posted:
Nothing meant by it, it was the parlance. They weren't "women" or "girls", they were female soldiers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 19:05
|
|
|
Steakandchips posted:I can't wait to just have the car license, buy a shitter and just forget it till I need it a handful of times a year.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
Well this loving sucks. GSX-R died on me today. I was en route to get my second vaccine dose and it stalled out and wouldn't start again. And the alarm and lights started to behave really strange, lighting up the alarm if I leave it turned on, like there's a short somewhere. I managed to bump start it and got it to a gas station, filled up and tried to bump start again... It fell over on me, which was drat embarrassing, but I got it to turn over. Took it down the highway hoping I could get some juice back into the battery, got it to my folks' place and it still won't start.  Just another straw on the camel's back of stressful episodes I didn't need to start this summer. I have to fix the mirrors and now... Whatever this is (hopefully just a dead battery but I fear it's the alternator), before the 26th so I can take my full M license course, or the license expires and it's back to square one. Either way, I have to sell the bike in the middle of July. :'(
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:47
|
|
|
What is the licensing structure that you can have GSX-R but are not fully licensed?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:53
|
|
|
Toe Rag posted:What is the licensing structure that you can have GSX-R but are not fully licensed? Ontario has a three-tier licensing system for most vehicles. If you don't complete the third tier and it expires, you have to start from scratch. This happened to me before, about 13 years ago when my second bike got stolen. I'm worried it's about to happen again because I can't get this one fixed in time to take the test.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:59
|
|
|
If you're still downtown-ish I can lend a battery tender
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 22:13
|
|
|
Thanks, I'm in the Beaches right now and I've got a tender. It looks like it's probably the alternator and it might have been toast for a few days now. Hopefully we can get enough of a charge into it that it'll get me to the shop when they open tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 22:19
|
|
|
40oz of fury posted:In fact, what happens in a manual trans car with no ABS when you stand on the brakes without disengaging the clutch? I guess the engine dies and then you let off the brakes but continue sliding because now you've got a stopped engine providing resistance? And then without the engine you don't have power brakes or power steering so hopefully the encounter ended after that one braking event because you are probably less maneuverable without those accessories. I would think clutch-in is a safer condition all around. Who does come up with this stuff?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 22:32
|
|
|
Using the engine in cars was a vital thing when they all had pathetic drum brakes and bias ply tyres, it's also a good way to avoid destroying your brakes and dying in a fire when descending kilometers-long downhills, you can't just drag the brakes the whole way down. In normal driving, modern car brakes can drastically outperform the engine braking even in really poo poo cars, so there's no point outside of some particular scenarios. What do they think happens in automatic cars anyway??
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 23:01
|
|
|
RadioPassive posted:Who does come up with this stuff? Serious answer, probably some guy in the '50s who had to wear a tie to work. I think they've only recently updated the training/testing regimen to include stuff like satnav systems, and that's just a bolt on segment.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 05:37
|
|
|
Thank goodness they've binned the reversing around a corner.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 07:57
|
|
|
Mister Speaker posted:Well this loving sucks. GSX-R died on me today. I was en route to get my second vaccine dose and it stalled out and wouldn't start again. And the alarm and lights started to behave really strange, lighting up the alarm if I leave it turned on, like there's a short somewhere. I managed to bump start it and got it to a gas station, filled up and tried to bump start again... It fell over on me, which was drat embarrassing, but I got it to turn over. Took it down the highway hoping I could get some juice back into the battery, got it to my folks' place and it still won't start. All my electrical woes started when I was on my way for my second dose too. The 5G nanobots are obviously draining any spare current from nearby objects in preparation for the update.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 09:16
|
|
|
First track day today! Managed 3 sessions before I came off and I think I've broken my thumb 😕.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 14:23
|
|
|
That sucks. Do you know what happened?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 15:00
|
|
|
Steakandchips posted:Re driving proficiency, I'm literally getting car driving lessons right now (well, 10 minutes ago). I'm on my second lesson. Your instructor is correct. I always downshift sequentially to 2nd when coming to a stop, minimizing the time the driveline is disconnected. When I learned to drive, the teaching was to downshift and rev-match/engine brake while decelerating so that you are always in gear and the engine is always ready to respond. If you're just rolling along in neutral and have an emergency, the extra second or two required to put the transmission in gear and rev up the engine could be the difference between a near miss and a crash. It's also lovely to be coasting around with the clutch in and the engine and gearbox not matching what the wheels are doing, because if you hit a pothole and your foot slips off the clutch the car will not like it very much.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 15:09
|
|
|
Toe Rag posted:That sucks. Do you know what happened? Too much throttle on exit of a corner (druids at brands hatch). Fish tailed a bit and ended up low siding. I'm not actually sure what happened to my thumb, I might have landed on it. It started wet dried out a bit, then got wetter again and I didn't allow for the changing grip.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 15:32
|
|
|
Better than high siding. Sometimes I'm a little jealous of UK folks since you're forced to be good wet weather riders, but then I quickly get over it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 18:14
|
|
|
Sagebrush posted:Your instructor is correct. I always downshift sequentially to 2nd when coming to a stop, minimizing the time the driveline is disconnected. When I learned to drive, the teaching was to downshift and rev-match/engine brake while decelerating so that you are always in gear and the engine is always ready to respond. If you're just rolling along in neutral and have an emergency, the extra second or two required to put the transmission in gear and rev up the engine could be the difference between a near miss and a crash. A good and informative post. I agree with you and can now understand why I should do it the way the instructor and you are saying.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2021 19:22
|
|
|
Oh, and for another more motorcycle-related anecdote, there was a guy in this forum several years ago who blew up his bike's transmission by coasting down a mountain highway with the clutch held in. See, obviously you don't want to be coasting down a hill at 60 mph in neutral, because then you're one toe-tap away from dumping the bike into first or second at 60 with the engine idling and that's gonna lock up the rear wheel and maybe overrev the engine and be a big problem. So this poster, can't remember his name, decided he would stay in 6th and just hold the clutch instead. A combination of factors here lead to the problem: - the transmission runs in an oil bath for lubrication. In nearly all motorcycles this is shared with the engine oil system. - the oil pump is driven by the engine, and its output pressure depends on the engine speed. - the clutch is between the crankshaft and the transmission input shaft. So pulling it in disconnects the engine from the transmission, but the transmission stays connected to the rear wheel. Scenario: the guy coasts down the hill with the clutch held in and the engine idling. Because the transmission is still in 6th gear, it's being driven by the rear wheel as he coasts and all the gears inside are spinning as fast as they would at 60 mph. But the engine is idling, so the oil pump isn't making any pressure, and because the oil pump also lubricates the gearbox, it's getting starved of lubrication. It doesn't take very long in that situation to start running metal on metal and then you're hosed. (if he had put it in neutral instead it might have saved the transmission, because in many cases that disconnects the sprocket from the rest of the gearing so the only thing spinning full speed is the front sprocket and output shaft. but then you've got the problem that you're starting at 60 miles an hour, and as you shift down to second gear the entire transmission is going to spin up to 60 mph * second gear ratio because the clutch is on the far side. you might not pop the engine but you'll almost certainly overspeed the gearbox in that process. so even if you were a dummy and tried to use neutral, which carries the risk of bumping it into gear, you still might blow the thing up getting there. just don't do it!) Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jun 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 02:22
|
|
|
Standing on the clutch for long periods puts unnecessary wear on the throw-out bearing too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 03:01
|
|
|
Why would you coast down a hill anyway? To avoid engine braking? It sounds like more work than just putting in the appropriate gear. Although when I was first learning I remember the clutch was my happy place when poo poo got too fast or scary (can't recommend enough NOT learning on a D675), but it turns out clutching in for turns is really not a good idea nor does it make them easier. Thankfully I got over that pretty quick.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 04:16
|
|
|
Engine braking has always come in handy coasting down hills for me. The few times I was in too high a gear I was just constantly riding the brake and it was super annoying. Probably for everyone behind me too. When I first started riding I think I remember doing a bit of coasting and it felt like I was out of control. Horrible feeling when you barely know what you’re doing. Living on top of a hill and having to ride down to go anywhere this is the one thing I got familiar with real quick.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 04:34
|
|
|
Engine braking is one of the best things about going downhill. Especially on a thumper. Blappityblaplapblip blup blappablapppbbb
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 04:47
|
|
|
I can't really imagine going downhill at 60 for any significant distance. Surely any suitably long downhill is going to have many more bends than 60mph will allow. stdh basically.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 10:15
|
|
|
Would going downhill at 10mph, in first, but the clutch held in and using the front brake for about half an hour have a negative impact on a Harley?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 10:20
|
|
|
MomJeans420 posted:Why would you coast down a hill anyway? To avoid engine braking? It sounds like more work than just putting in the appropriate gear. A lot of people are freaked out by engine braking, they feel like they're not actually in control because it's happening without them specifically ordering it with a pedal or lever or whatever. It also sounds and feels like you're being gentler on the engine by free-wheeling even if the exact opposite is the case.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 11:01
|
|
|
ehhhhhh posted:I can't really imagine going downhill at 60 for any significant distance. Surely any suitably long downhill is going to have many more bends than 60mph will allow. stdh basically. You only need a barely-perceptible downslope to maintain 60 if you're free-wheeling - could be the rider thought they were being smart and saving fuel that way. I can think of several roads - most of the motorways in and out of London, for a start - that will have 1:40 or 1:50 inclines for a good couple of miles with only mild curves, and I've *definitely* ridden on roads in the US that go for far longer with a notable slope (almost any road in the Rockies, for a start).
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 11:05
|
|
|
Steakandchips posted:Would going downhill at 10mph, in first, but the clutch held in and using the front brake for about half an hour have a negative impact on a Harley?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 13:14
|
|
|
Mister Speaker posted:Well this loving sucks. GSX-R died on me today. I was en route to get my second vaccine dose and it stalled out and wouldn't start again. And the alarm and lights started to behave really strange, lighting up the alarm if I leave it turned on, like there's a short somewhere. I managed to bump start it and got it to a gas station, filled up and tried to bump start again... It fell over on me, which was drat embarrassing, but I got it to turn over. Took it down the highway hoping I could get some juice back into the battery, got it to my folks' place and it still won't start. I have never heard of someone who both had an alarm on their bike and also DIDNT have electrical issues. Seriously I know of so many cases of alarms causing random and weird electrical gremlins. Since they’re usually tied into the ignition they have a pretty high level of influence on the bikes electrical system and on its ability to run reliably. God help you if it was installed by a PO and not you or an installer. I get it if you need to say you have an alarm to keep your insurance premiums down, but outside of that, I’d seriously consider removing the alarm and going back to stock electricals. If someone really wants your bike they’re gonna get it, alarm or no alarm, and in the meantime it’s just gonna cause you grief.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 13:42
|
|
|
Jim Silly-Balls posted:If someone really wants your bike they’re gonna get it, alarm or no alarm, and in the meantime it’s just gonna cause you grief. What I got from that was the only really effective deterrent is a big fuckoff chain through the forks and wrapped around something like a concrete pillar. Not very practical carrying 20-30 lbs of chain around with you if you plan on locking it up anywhere other than where you park at your home though. I just carry full coverage insurance.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 17:33
|
|
|
Steakandchips posted:Would going downhill at 10mph, in first, but the clutch held in and using the front brake for about half an hour have a negative impact on a Harley? Nope. One of those nice little ways Harleys being lovely and dumb is actually cunning and smart. Gearbox is lubricated by oil being splashed around by the output shaft, which is always doing wheel speed. Clutch is lubed by the primary oil bath and is always spinning at engine rpm. Engine only has to lube itself and being a fully roller bearing bottom end means it gives no fucks about what rpm you're doing or how much oil pressure you have, a slow ooze onto the bearings is more than enough. Jim Silly-Balls posted:I have never heard of someone who both had an alarm on their bike and also DIDNT have electrical issues. Number of times an alarm prevented a theft: probably zero Number of times an alarm caused a bike to go to a workshop and cost the owner money: muahahahaha Alarms are worthless and mostly serve to cause painful electrical problems and unexpected stranding, only physical anti theft measures work when you can steal any bike with two guys and a van.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 19:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:52 |
|
|
Slavvy posted:Nope. One of those nice little ways Harleys being lovely and dumb is actually cunning and smart. Gearbox is lubricated by oil being splashed around by the output shaft, which is always doing wheel speed. Clutch is lubed by the primary oil bath and is always spinning at engine rpm. Engine only has to lube itself and being a fully roller bearing bottom end means it gives no fucks about what rpm you're doing or how much oil pressure you have, a slow ooze onto the bearings is more than enough. You work out of a van, right? How long does it take you to load up a bike and be moving if you’re in a hurry? I bet one guy who knows what he’s doing could do it pretty quick too. Even with a steering lock. I’ve moved a locked klr around by pivoting it on the kickstand every time it gets too far out of line.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2021 19:22
|
|