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Poil posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63qV3AKV9TY That's a pretty terrible apples-to-oranges comparison for the cloud lightning. Cloud lightning is trash, but it comes earlier than traditional L slots if you can nab a crystal entity relatively early. Also, Arc Emitters are the best spinal slot by a long margin (vs most lineups), so cloud lightning piggy backs on that as the only choice. I get that the videos where to show empirical results for something you can see in the weapon tooltips, but it'd be nice if he talked about context a bit more.
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Jun 14, 2021 22:08
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Yes and he didn't test cloud lightning against high evasion targets.
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Jun 14, 2021 22:17
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Serephina posted:That's a pretty terrible apples-to-oranges comparison for the cloud lightning. Cloud lightning is trash, but it comes earlier than traditional L slots if you can nab a crystal entity relatively early. Also, Arc Emitters are the best spinal slot by a long margin (vs most lineups), so cloud lightning piggy backs on that as the only choice. That's in another video. Arc Emitters are really bad, even after you adjust for them being cheaper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQaq4eN-iR4&t=872s
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Jun 14, 2021 22:31
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I played a pvp game where we had no AI and I got owned; I think what stellaris needs is a better ship recommendation system, something that looks at the build of your ships and tells you its likely strength and weaknesses. I had been attacked by this player already before and I knew I think vaguely he had shields, some armor, and lasers. I thought I was being clever and made a navy with all hull (crystal plate) and then disruptors to ignore their shield/hulls and just destroy their hulls. But instead of dealing disproportate damage to their fleets my fleet got owned and they lost only like 1 ship; out of a fleet battle where together was something like 40 cruisers, 20 destroyers and 80 corvettes. I don't really know what happened or why; or how at least in more competitive pvp what I'm supposed to do to be competitive or take advantage of other peoples builds.
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Jun 14, 2021 22:50
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Disruptors are pretty terrible from what I've heard. The enemy needs a LOT of repeatable shield and armor tech for them to be useful.
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Jun 14, 2021 22:54
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I haven't done the maths, but I was under the impression Cloud Lightning was good late game because armour, shields and energy weapons (like cloud lightning) all have repeatable techs to make them stronger, but there's no such tech for hull. So the weapon keeps getting stronger but the only thing it hits (hull) doesn't.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:00
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The problem with them is that you have to go all in on them or their potential is wasted, and there's also that Disruptors & Cloud Lightning also have a minimum damage of *1* so even with 10x energy damage repeatables your damage range is going to be all over the place. They aren't bad per-se, but standard weapons are way, way stronger until you're balls-deep in repeatable tech.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:04
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Raenir Salazar posted:I played a pvp game where we had no AI and I got owned; I think what stellaris needs is a better ship recommendation system, something that looks at the build of your ships and tells you its likely strength and weaknesses. Poil posted:Disruptors are pretty terrible from what I've heard. The enemy needs a LOT of repeatable shield and armor tech for them to be useful. This. The correct call was to favor shields and crystal plates with a balanced loadout. If he was running all or mostly lasers, they'd have a hard time getting through shields (50% damage penalty), giving your more balanced loadout that matched his balance of shields and armor more time to deal damage. Disruptors/Cloud Lighting/Arc Emitters are niche weapons for very specific situations, hampered by a low base damage and extremely high variance. Unless you're in an edge case where people have piles of repeatable armor and shield techs (or arguably are facing the Unbidden), literally anything works better. I don't play multiplayer, but the advice I can give you is to first double check that your macro game is solid. Was your fleet "on paper" roughly equal? Were you outnumbered or outteched in any way? If you can answer "yes" to either of those, fix that first. I won so many StarCraft games by being able to simply outproduce my opponent and bury them in bodies even against a hard counter.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:05
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Raenir Salazar posted:I played a pvp game where we had no AI and I got owned; I think what stellaris needs is a better ship recommendation system, something that looks at the build of your ships and tells you its likely strength and weaknesses. e: also a balanced loadout means anti shield ships and separate anti armour ships, don't mix your weapon types on the same design.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:25
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Splicer posted:e: also a balanced loadout means anti shield ships and separate anti armour ships, don't mix your weapon types on the same design. I've asked that question before (IE: Do ships split their fire so they use their anti-shield guns on ships that still have shields and anti-armour guns on ships that have no shields, or do they attack a single target at all times with all weapons) and not gotten an answer. You sure of this?
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Jun 15, 2021 10:12
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Yea if you slow down the fight you can visually see different guns firing on different targets. Visual representation may not be indicative of what's going on behind the scenes, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.
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Jun 15, 2021 10:46
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Gort posted:I've asked that question before (IE: Do ships split their fire so they use their anti-shield guns on ships that still have shields and anti-armour guns on ships that have no shields, or do they attack a single target at all times with all weapons) and not gotten an answer. You sure of this? Seems trivial to test the effectiveness, set up a split fleet vs a fleet with the same total guns but mixed up between ships.
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Jun 15, 2021 10:50
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Splicer posted:Seems trivial to test the effectiveness, set up a split fleet vs a fleet with the same total guns but mixed up between ships. How would you do that? AI off, tag switching?
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Jun 15, 2021 11:42
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Gort posted:How would you do that? AI off, tag switching? Yep. Same way you do all this testing.
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Jun 15, 2021 11:45
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Stellaris changed up its combat behaviors in 1.8, making targeting based on weapons rather than ships. Each weapon seeks out its best target and then destroys it. Best is dependent on many different factors, particularly ship class, range, and shield strength.
Kaal fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 12:45
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Well then! That's going to save me some clicks
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Jun 15, 2021 12:55
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We came a long way from "the front corvette eats the alpha strike from hell", huh.
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Jun 15, 2021 12:55
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Speaking of hell there are 3 criminal corporations in my current game. It doesn't matter that I can only reach one of them because the others just instantly open up on the closed planets. Oh what fun and exciting gameplay it is to lose a building slot and 2 specialists on every single planet.
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Jun 15, 2021 14:22
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getting to the end of my first nemesis run where I borged half the galaxy before Becoming the Crisis and it's been a hoot. total romp outside of a few early wars with a xenophobic spiritualist empire who eventually became my first "acquisition." it's been fun though, ready to put it to bed so i'm about to End Things.
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Jun 15, 2021 15:26
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wooooooow. what a lovely way to learn how that works. i did an emergency ftl retreat in enemy territory two systems away from my own, owned, controlled anchorage. i expected i would return two months later. i came back one year later, 15 jumps away at my starter system. why? q: "what determines where a fleet respawns?" a: at its home system, regardless of distance from the home system, or from other, nearer starbases. it'd be nice if this could be like a tooltip or something, i've always wondered what Home System meant until now. e: i was able to white peace my way out of a bad stalemate caused by this warp fuckup. in ten years this punk won't be so lucky Fur20 fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 07:07
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Pro tip, always claim the L cluster because emergency FTL to there is instant. Combine with warp gates as necessary to get your fleet back in action as soon as it's repaired. Experimental Subspace Navigation getting out is also instant so you can drop your science ship anywhere in the galaxy in moments, so you can grab debris quick or immediately begin surveying newly freed systems.
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Jun 16, 2021 07:22
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Fur20 posted:wooooooow. what a lovely way to learn how that works. i did an emergency ftl retreat in enemy territory two systems away from my own, owned, controlled anchorage. i expected i would return two months later. i came back one year later, 15 jumps away at my starter system. why? I mean yea that makes 100% sense. Home systems are where fleets walk back to when you use hotkey B as in Back. Like where they go to, you know, lick their wounds? Seemed reasonable to me after I retreated for the first time.
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Jun 16, 2021 07:23
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Serephina posted:I mean yea that makes 100% sense. Home systems are where fleets walk back to when you use hotkey B as in Back. Like where they go to, you know, lick their wounds? Seemed reasonable to me after I retreated for the first time. most of the time i have fleets with no home base and they seem to retreat to the nearest station, which is what i was assuming was gonna happen
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Jun 16, 2021 09:32
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Fur20 posted:most of the time i have fleets with no home base and they seem to retreat to the nearest station, which is what i was assuming was gonna happen I'm always assigning my fleets to dedicated fleet bases near the front lines, so it never even occured to me you could gently caress this up. Or that unassigned fleets automatically go to the closest friendly base. 
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Jun 16, 2021 10:15
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Fur20 posted:most of the time i have fleets with no home base and they seem to retreat to the nearest station, which is what i was assuming was gonna happen You should use the home base functionality and station your fleet at places with crew quarters in peacetime for the upkeep discount
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Jun 16, 2021 10:22
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Fur20 posted:most of the time i have fleets with no home base and they seem to retreat to the nearest station, which is what i was assuming was gonna happen
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Jun 16, 2021 10:42
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Could people recommend some good mods besides the handful mentioned in the OP? I used to have a pretty heavily modded Stellaris a few patches ago that I've since uninstalled but I want to get back into the game, I think. I used to like stuff that added more events and flavor and whatnot.
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Jun 16, 2021 11:57
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what a grand and intoxicating innocence!
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Jun 16, 2021 16:46
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Oh, dang! That looks awesome I take it that's what happens if you're defeated?
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Jun 16, 2021 18:25
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That's what happens when you become the crisis and ascend.
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Jun 16, 2021 18:32
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Oof, gotcha. Yeah, I've never zoomed in after.
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Jun 16, 2021 18:38
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i generated a neat story with that one, i started off with humans borged by robots on an Earth relic world, it rolled cybrex as the precursor so i said "humanity made an AI to try and defeat the evil AI they were fighting but they lost the war and were almost destroyed. then the Earth AI took over what was left." so anyway the Earth robo-mind took over half the galaxy and then ascended to the next plane of existence, becoming as a God, killing all life as we know it in the process. them's the breaks.
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Jun 16, 2021 18:42
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uber_stoat posted:i generated a neat story with that one, i started off with humans borged by robots on an Earth relic world, it rolled cybrex as the precursor so i said "humanity made an AI to try and defeat the evil AI they were fighting but they lost the war and were almost destroyed. then the Earth AI took over what was left." so anyway the Earth robo-mind took over half the galaxy and then ascended to the next plane of existence, becoming as a God, killing all life as we know it in the process. them's the breaks. I love that particular start. My custom Driven Assimilators empire is the Kingdom of HEVN, run by an AI calling itself Metatron which was tasked with solving the problem of suffering and, after crunching all of the philosophical and religious texts, decided the Catholics were right, original sin exists, all humans are born sinful, and therefore the objectively moral decision is to redeem everyone by turning them into clean, sinless machines.   It's a good way to force myself out of my default play style, which is xenophile materialist egalitarians who make friends with everybody.
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Jun 16, 2021 20:12
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also doesn't hurt that DA is one of the most powerful types of empires, I love them
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Jun 16, 2021 20:27
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I have an inkling to play some flavor of spiritualist soon, but also I'm annoyed that spiritualist empires seem extremely overrepresented in the random empires seeded in my games.
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Jun 16, 2021 21:19
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Don't worry, when you the player are spiritualist, the game does it's best to make all the other empires some variety of materialist.
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Jun 16, 2021 21:28
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Warmachine posted:I have an inkling to play some flavor of spiritualist soon, but also I'm annoyed that spiritualist empires seem extremely overrepresented in the random empires seeded in my games. Yet another reason why I make a wide variety of empires to get as many combos of Origin, Ethics, Government, and Species Traits and put them all on Force Spawn. I'm up to 22 different empires, and if I can recognize who I run into just by the ship/color combo I consider that a small price to pay to have a widely varied galaxy. Besides it's not like I can do much with that info until I make it through First Contact. I also get to set up combos, like the Fexian Protectorate (Rogue Servitors with the foxes as the Bio-trophies) and the Fexian Liberation (Egalitarian foxes with Free Haven and Beacon of Democracy) who are supposed to oppose them. Or the Swarm (insect Devouring Swarm) and the Exterminators (Determined Exterminators using the flying bug robots) with the latter built to contain the former. I can't force them to spawn near each other or to fight each other, but I find it amusing nevertheless.
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Jun 16, 2021 21:41
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jng2058 posted:Yet another reason why I make a wide variety of empires to get as many combos of Origin, Ethics, Government, and Species Traits and put them all on Force Spawn. I'm up to 22 different empires, and if I can recognize who I run into just by the ship/color combo I consider that a small price to pay to have a widely varied galaxy. Besides it's not like I can do much with that info until I make it through First Contact. I also get to set up combos, like the Fexian Protectorate (Rogue Servitors with the foxes as the Bio-trophies) and the Fexian Liberation (Egalitarian foxes with Free Haven and Beacon of Democracy) who are supposed to oppose them. Or the Swarm (insect Devouring Swarm) and the Exterminators (Determined Exterminators using the flying bug robots) with the latter built to contain the former. I can't force them to spawn near each other or to fight each other, but I find it amusing nevertheless. Maybe I'll try this approach. I don't mind the idea of having to build my empires from scratch to have the types of games I want.
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Jun 16, 2021 21:52
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On Piracy, I think a good solution would be to first poach from the Wild Space mod so there are regions of the galaxy that are actually uninhabited, and then have pirates spawn out in those systems so you have wild border regions. Then you could decide on whether you defend by building starbases, sending patrols out, paying them $100 to gently caress off, etc., and the pirates themselves could have varied goals like raiding frontier worlds or just parking themselves on a trade route to suck up wealth then buggering off into the nebula once their holds are full (Viking CK2 style). As it stands it is to me a far bigger 'tax' than admin cap or anything. uber_stoat posted:what a grand and intoxicating innocence! Is this how you honor the galaxy unmourned?
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Jun 17, 2021 00:37
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uber_stoat posted:what a grand and intoxicating innocence! That's so cool. How does one Become The Crisis? Speaking of crises: I loved my first game, just as I was getting a little bored at ~2400 the Unbidden rolled in. But wow, the AI really can't hack crises: My federation consisted of half the galaxy, the other half was muderbots ( ) and a couple of fallen empires. Two small civilizations (~3 systems left) in the heart of muderbot space joined my federation. No, really, they were around 15 jumps deep, surrounded on all sides. They then voted for a proactive war to end the murderbot menace, leading to their untimely robotic deaths...instantly.
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Jun 17, 2021 01:02
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