(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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botw weapon durability would have felt better if there were more numerous and more effective non-weapon strategies for encounters. there were a few good ways to get through things but generally being clever had pretty weak payoff compared to just going ham.
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Jun 17, 2021 03:30
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| # ? May 29, 2024 22:29 |
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also unless your game was made in Eastern Europe it's not allowed to have a weapon durability system
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Jun 17, 2021 03:30
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Lindsay Ellis on The Little Mermaid: This is cool and good and I feel lovely for being a dumbass teenager who perpetuated the bullshit in the 2010s.
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Jun 17, 2021 03:31
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Arcsquad12 posted:This is cool and good and I feel lovely for being a dumbass teenager who perpetuated the bullshit in the 2010s. Everyone did. Don't feel bad if you thought the same dumb stuff that everyone else did back then.
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Jun 17, 2021 03:32
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Alaois posted:I remember reading or hearing at some point that the High/Low Chaos stuff in the first game was not the original plan but someone high up said "this game is dark as gently caress, we should have a good ending" so they tacked on the non-lethal stuff I can't find anything about this, but considering Arkane's been big on "Play your way" I feel like that was something they just rethought earlier on if it was the case. Though you're not really punished for high chaos anyway, it's just another cool way for the game to go if you feel like really wrecking everything, cause you can kill a fair few people over the game and still not get actual high chaos in the first place, but it also opens up cool new ways that the levels and world go throughout the game, like a lot of stuff plays out pretty different when you look at the low/high versions, same story in Dishonored 2, which does consider mostly low chaos options in the first game canon, but mainly since high chaos ending would've kinda wrecked everything for everyone. Dishonored 2's differences are cool too, a lot of the events and NPC interactions and stuff in high chaos are a lot more brutal and the world itself has a lot more signs of poo poo going bad, some that come to mind are the handyman in the asylum, low chaos the guard that goes into his interrogation room just beats his rear end from what I remember and he's still more sane, while high chaos they pretty much give him one chance and when he babbles crazier in that run, they put a bullet in him right then and there, or the sister cleaning lady and guard having a fight over their choices in the town, low chaos it comes to mostly threats but they back off, high chaos the guard sister dumps the other girl right the hell off the balcony to her death, even as early as the first stop in Karnacca, the people having a standoff on the dock over a job, low chaos they almost come to blows but sorta end up on "We both got screwed" and kind of back off, high chaos the situation comes to a head and people get brained, even in the world stuff, you'll see a lot more bloody streets, people hanged and black bag over the head bodies dumped in gutters and stuff in high chaos. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 03:36
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Grondoth posted:Everyone did. Don't feel bad if you thought the same dumb stuff that everyone else did back then. yea I think she was really dead on by explaining it as people trying to create one simple narrative when the real answer is a big mess of 'capitalism is fuckin evil my dudes'. Like, it was the baby form of a genuine zeitgeist but the problem is a lot of people, often people who are in positions of cultural authority, just never progressed past that baby form so it was just 'what if precious Susan winds up as a pathetic, lowly, NURSE instead of a girlboss? Belle did this to her...'
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Jun 17, 2021 03:39
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Sydin posted:Also durability isn't even the worst thing that was revealed about BoTW2 Not gonna lie, that shot of Zelda falling helplessly into the abyss and all but confirming she's getting kidnapped again and will be a non-presence BOTW2 like she was in the first one basically killed any desire I had to see any more of the game. I was hoping against hope that it wasn't gonna happen but it's Nintendo, they are terrified from deviating from formula. Always.
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Jun 17, 2021 03:46
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"Hey boss, remember when we made Zelda a spunky pirate captain and had her (mostly) actively participate in the adventure, even join in the last fight? And remember when we gave Link companion character with a big personality and that made an actual impact on gameplay and is still fondly remembered as a result? Let's never do anything like those ever again far too spicy."
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Jun 17, 2021 04:02
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also I 100% read Gaston as queer coded but I do grant that was maybe influenced by me being a queer deeply closeted young boy who did a bunch of 'masculine' poo poo to try to hide it as much as I could so yea the dude flouncing his way to a chair and singing 'I use antlers in all of my decoraaaaating' while talking about his hunting prowess was 100% a 'oh yea dude same' thing
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Jun 17, 2021 04:02
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CYBEReris posted:botw weapon durability would have felt better if there were more numerous and more effective non-weapon strategies for encounters. there were a few good ways to get through things but generally being clever had pretty weak payoff compared to just going ham. If you had a set of fancy magic items like a hookshot or a fancy hammer or a grappling hook, maybe some spells or magic masks or some poo poo that could be used in combat and out of combat it really would have spiced up the gameplay and keep it from feeling stale a few hours in. The 3 powers you get from the slate just have boring usage in combat that it never feels good to use them outside of goofin off. I just got really bored with BotW after the first few hours and started actively ignoring shrines that weren't weird gimmick poo poo like THE DARK ZONE or Reset Island. There was only so many physics puzzles in the same tile set I can stomach and Valve ate most of that tolerance decades ago. SteelMentor posted:"Hey boss, remember when we made Zelda a spunky pirate captain and had her (mostly) actively participate in the adventure, even join in the last fight? I would kill for a Groose or a Linebeck in BotW2. just someone to give some life to the setting and endless plains between the 400th Korok puzzle and 200 enemy camp with the same 4 dudes in it. Can I just get a new normal Zelda game? They've been playing with the forumla for longer than it's been since we had one at this point. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 04:05
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https://twitter.com/Popgoes6/status/1405342606943469576 Is "Before we start look at this fan art" a variant form of "Starting off your apology video with your dog in the shot" ?
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Jun 17, 2021 04:07
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Grondoth posted:Everyone did. Don't feel bad if you thought the same dumb stuff that everyone else did back then. Yeah, I also read and spouted such dumb hot takes when I was younger. I do like this kind of videos that are not from reactionary angry dudes, but from actually smart people pointing out how dumb the basic revisionism of the 2000s was. It was rough to watch the clips of that musical. I don't know what it was, but it does suck
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Jun 17, 2021 04:09
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Oh no the consequences of my actions caught up to me in the mildest way!
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Jun 17, 2021 04:09
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SteelMentor posted:Oh no the consequences of my actions caught up to me in the mildest way! me, barely reaping: what the gently caress, this sucks
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Jun 17, 2021 04:11
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ngl I made the mistake of looking through Twitter for people's reactions and goddamn there was a lot of Zoomers more than happy to throw people's rights under the bus if it slightly inconveniences them consuming their favourite fandom. Gonna get sold out to the TERFstopo for a loving Foxy funko pop.
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Jun 17, 2021 04:13
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Viewtiful Jew posted:https://twitter.com/Popgoes6/status/1405342606943469576 Didn't he stop making FNAF games a while ago? This is just him just reminding everyone that he already cut and ran with their money.
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Jun 17, 2021 04:14
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SteelMentor posted:ngl I made the mistake of looking through Twitter for people's reactions and goddamn there was a lot of Zoomers more than happy to throw people's rights under the bus if it slightly inconveniences them consuming their favourite fandom. yea it whips rear end that it seems like the new TERF generation is gonna be even worse than the old hags out there doin it now because wow if they're willing to say 'genocide me animatronic daddy uwu' for a dude who made some alright horror games wait until fuckin whoever the gently caress is big on youtube with kids calls a trans person a freak or something
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Jun 17, 2021 04:15
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Neo_Crimson posted:Didn't he stop making FNAF games a while ago? This is just him just reminding everyone that he already cut and ran with their money. It hasn't been a one-man show for a while I don't think but up until now I think he still had a direct role in the series.
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Jun 17, 2021 04:16
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Does this mean we can officially say Miku made FNAF?
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Jun 17, 2021 04:21
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The world isn't made up of weird people on twitter
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Jun 17, 2021 04:23
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theGrooseofLegend posted:Does this mean we can officially say Miku made FNAF? No because that absolves you from engaging with the fact lovely people that made the thing. People have been doing it with Harry potter while still supporting it and it sucks.
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Jun 17, 2021 04:23
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Grondoth posted:The world isn't made up of weird people on twitter I mean, twitter is made up of lovely people from the world? Like, TERFs are a pretty heavily online thing but as we can see both here and even more so in the UK those online people are really good at at least making the life of their victims worse in the real world.
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Jun 17, 2021 04:26
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people mad about botw durability have the same brainworm that makes them unable to use megaelixirs except botw holds their sickness up high and forces it to squirm in the light
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Jun 17, 2021 04:27
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Grondoth posted:The world isn't made up of weird people on twitter I’m thankful no one irl I know uses twitter lmao. I actually just deactivated mine. I got so little out of it except that short period where Justin Roiland would retweet and like my fan art. That’s it.
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Jun 17, 2021 04:28
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Farg posted:people mad about botw durability have the same brainworm that makes them unable to use megaelixirs except botw holds their sickness up high and forces it to squirm in the light honestly I have that worm and have no issue with it
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Jun 17, 2021 04:29
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What made the original "Miku made Minecraft" meme work was that Notch no longer benefited from Minecraft's success, making the idea both funny and harmless. But now I realize that he's handing the reins to someone "he trusts," meaning there's a high chance I'll be eating a sock.
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Jun 17, 2021 04:35
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Is Endorph the only person to have actually successfully cancelled someone??
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Jun 17, 2021 04:36
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Watching people miss the point in real time and use it as carte blanche to not think critically about consuming something from a massive piece of poo poo was incredibly harrowing. Same with "No Ethical Consumption under Capitalism".
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Jun 17, 2021 04:37
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the actual babies who love these games will not care
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Jun 17, 2021 04:41
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Nuebot posted:And that's kind of the big problem with durability systems in nearly every single implementation they've gone through: they don't really add anything of value to the game, they're just a tedious limit on the game's fun in a way that even ammo isn't usually. In a shooter ammo is usually your limit on being able to progress, and since in most games enemies drop ammo then being able to shoot dudes, get the ammo, shoot more dudes and repeat is the bulk of your gameplay. But the moment you add in gun maintenance there, so you have to stop mid-shoot to tune up your gun and killing dudes doesn't magically refill your gun health the way picking up the ammo refills your ammo counter then the entire game just slows down and feels a lot less smooth. ngl this is a weird opinion to me. Like you say its not like ammo, but the way you describe it pretty much sums up how you deal with durability anyway? (Use thing to kill baddies, loot corpses for more things to continue to kill baddies with) I think durability in games like Fallout New Vegas is great because it fits with that games world and its mechanics: Youre a scavenger in a wasteland. Food, water, ammo, money, parts, everything is a resource you must scavenge, barter, and/or steal for. To me, saying durability ruins your fun is like saying running out of health ruins your fun? Why can't we just have infinite health? Because just blasting thru everything with no challenge would be boring as hell. (sorry, not trying to be snarky. Thats just how I feel) Durability is another piece in the puzzle that is the game's combat system. Like, I get saying BOTW took it too far and should eaze up on it a bit. That's fine, but Sterling ranting about it saying the entire mechanic can never be done well and is always bad is laughably absurd. Like if you just don't like it, fine but some games that rely on survival and crafting are probably going to have it and they should imo. TL:DR Get good 
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Jun 17, 2021 04:59
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durability in Fallout New Vegas is practically a vestigial mechanic with how trivially easy it is to keep weapons at 100%
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Jun 17, 2021 05:08
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Alaois posted:durability in Fallout New Vegas is practically a vestigial mechanic with how trivially easy it is to keep weapons at 100% its so bizarre they keep it around when its such a non-issue. dark souls 3 also kept weapon durability and just lol if you someone managed to run one down e: bloodborne weapon durability good. ds1 weapon durability is a cruel joke miyazaki is playing on me
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Jun 17, 2021 05:14
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DS2 had a stupid durability bug on PC but the Small Soapstone meant it didn't matter.
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Jun 17, 2021 05:23
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Alaois posted:durability in Fallout New Vegas is practically a vestigial mechanic with how trivially easy it is to keep weapons at 100% In vanilla with Jury rigging? Sure. But with Hardcore mode on a harder difficulty with mods? It's another system you have to manage and keep track of like eating, drinking and sleeping.
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Jun 17, 2021 05:24
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Doctor Spaceman posted:DS2 had a stupid durability bug on PC but the Small Soapstone meant it didn't matter. I'd take that durability nonsense over the Adaptability stat. Holy crap was that a bad idea.
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Jun 17, 2021 05:25
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Jamie Faith posted:In vanilla with Jury rigging? Sure. But with Hardcore mode on a harder difficulty with mods? It's another system you have to manage and keep track of like eating, drinking and sleeping. i don't think ive ever taken jury rigging and have never had an issue with any of my weapons going below the optimal durability even on hardcore you can also just buy brand new guns at 100% durability at the Gun Runners, who sell every single type of gun in the game
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Jun 17, 2021 05:28
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Jamie Faith posted:ngl this is a weird opinion to me. Like you say its not like ammo, but the way you describe it pretty much sums up how you deal with durability anyway? (Use thing to kill baddies, loot corpses for more things to continue to kill baddies with) Because durability usually isn't sustained in the same way or pace that ammo is, in most games at least. Generally having to stop and maintain or replace your weapon is treated on an entirely different tier from having to reload. In some games you can only repair weapons at certain stations, or with repair kits that often have a good deal higher rarity than ammo drops (and this is getting into the abstract here so I apologize.) Jamie Faith posted:To me, saying durability ruins your fun is like saying running out of health ruins your fun? Why can't we just have infinite health? Because just blasting thru everything with no challenge would be boring as hell. (sorry, not trying to be snarky. Thats just how I feel) Durability is another piece in the puzzle that is the game's combat system. Health, I find, is more of a punishment mechanic. You take damage when you screw up, whether that's because you didn't kill the other dudes fast enough or efficiently enough - or because you didn't dodge right in an action game. Some games even integrate health as a resource like ammo, allowing you to expend it to gain extra power in combat or there's always the classic "take damage to save time" speedrun style. Having to stop to heal yourself is more in line with that: you're forced to stop and replenish that lost because of the choices you made, because you screwed up or because you chose to sacrifice your health for other gains. But if every use of your weapon just takes off some of your weapon bar, and the only way to make that go up is to stop and use a grind stone, or tape two swords together to heal your sword, then it feels like I'm just stuck wondering what I did wrong or why my sword appears to be running on fuel like a lovely lawn mower. To get more specific, as an example, Dark Souls 2 did the worst of all worlds in regards to this. Durability just kind of chunked away with every use of your weapon, and as a punishment any time you hit a corpse, or a piece of level geometry you basically lost double durability (and this was further compounded by it all being tied to framerate so you lost durability for every frame your weapon touched an enemy or object, thus at 60FPS weak weapons could lose like half of their durability any time you killed something since they'd instantly become corpses before your weapon could withdraw from their bodies.) and most people kind of hated it because they felt no reason to really experiment with weapons. Things that were supposed to be high risk vs reward, lots of damage for fragile durability, were often viewed as being way too much of a liability especially for players who just weren't good at the game, and the fact that you would have to sink so many of your souls into repair powder to compensate or else you'd break your weapon (and broken weapons cost a lot to repair, as they wouldn't heal at bonfires even) meant people were even more put off from trying since they'd feel extra weak from not being able to use those souls to power themselves up. The end result was that a lot of the playerbase, especially those who just weren't skilled enough to adapt to this lovely system, gravitated towards the items with the highest durability like the Santier's Spear, a weapon that had obscenely high durability but unlocked an alternate moveset if you managed to break it. And this is without mentioning how bad the armour durability could get, enemies that attacked with acid damage could destroy the weaker sets in a single go which again not only meant you'd have to pay a lot of souls to repair them (or change your gear and thus potentially adjust your entire playstyle) but having your armour or weapon break basically meant their stats became null, if your weapon broke it did almost no damage, barring the Santier's Spear of course, and if your armour broke you'd suddenly be taking a lot more damage. So one hit could suddenly mean you were taking double damage until you managed to reach a blacksmith and farm up enough souls to repair your gear. It felt strangely spitefully punishing towards people who just weren't as good at avoiding everything, or didn't innately recognize what did and didn't do certain types of damage. In Dark Souls 3 they basically removed durability as a factor by making your armour take so little durability damage that it takes several hours of constant damage to break even one piece, and you can play through the majority of the game with one single weapon not stopping at any bonfire and only have to repair your weapon once or twice. This doesn't really take away anything from the series because durability was only ever used to make the game shittier for people who just weren't good at it, dating back to Demon's Souls where the Scraping Spear was used by online griefers to just break the equipment of less competent people who didn't really know how to fight back and evade, teaching a lot of the playerbase that online encounters were just miserable, sucked and not worth engaging in at all because even if you did win you'd come out of it with a massive loss since you now had to reset your progress by going back and repairing your poo poo. If the goal is to make people not be able to attack forever non-stop; we already have stamina for that, animation speed and lock. If it's to punish us for attacking recklessly like 2 tried to do, that's what the environment and AI are for, to take advantage of players who just mash the attack button blindly without realizing what they're doing. Traps existed, and will continue to exist, but stripping the player of their gear just made the situation hopeless since now not only would they be able to not get out of the trap, but even if they could progress would be nearly impossible to do at such a handicap. Rendering durability into a non-issue in Dark Souls 3 didn't really harm the game in any way, very few people missed it and everything it did was already done by another system in the game. Which is basically my issue with durability in nearly every game its in: it just doubles up on systems that already exist in unfun ways. Whether its with ammo, already a system that regulated how often and how long you could engage in combat with a gun, but with the added tax of weakening you if not maintained like in fallout or risking removing your weapon entirely, like in say Dark Cloud where if your weapons broke they just vanished forever. It's been almost universal that when games have durability systems people respond the same way; but just not using the stuff the consider high value or rare. Or else they take the turtle approach, load their inventory up with repair items and move slowly, carefully, and repair after every encounter. I know way too many people who came away from Dark Cloud hating that entire franchise because they felt like they absolutely had to have their inventory filled with repair powders or else they might lose their weapon mid dungeon and thus all of their progress through the game was rendered useless. Can durability, in theory at least, be done right? Probably. I just don't think I've ever played a game where it hasn't felt awful. At best it's something like in a survival game, where you need to keep your thirst and hunger bars filled, your durability bars filled, your hot and cold bars empty and the entire game is about managing your constantly draining or filling bars wherein durability just becomes another one of those many bars. But at worst it can just be a weight on top of a dozen other systems that do the same things it does, but just slightly out of synch making it feel incredibly obtrusive and ungainly. And ultimately in the vast majority of games I play, even RPGs, I don't really think my pants and guns need health bars. I've got health to determine if I'm taking the damage, I've got the ammo or the stamina or whatever Action Point turn economy the game's got going on to determined how much I can attack or move. It feels needless to also tell me that for every one bullet I spend my gun takes eight damage also, but getting more bullets doesn't heal that damage, instead I have to go out and buy a gun bandaid and repair it. 
Nuebot fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 05:46
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I'd say avoiding combat in BOTW because of durability is a case of users optimizing fun out of a game if not for the fact that the skill floor on combat starts low and gets lower until you fight a Lynel, and even with those you can manage a two-handed weapon spin to win if you finesse it. The game never gives a compelling reason to engage in most fights unless you're specifically getting drops from things to upgrade your armors.
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Jun 17, 2021 05:51
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Breath of the Wild's durability system is probably the smallest "problem" with its combat. Imagine we could banish the weird brainworms that make some Gamers throw screaming flailing tantrums whenever they encounter even a single second of BadFeelsTM in their power fantasy action game. Let's even ignore the tone and storytelling benefits of intentionally causing those horrible, fun-ruining BadFeels to which my precious Gamer amygdala must never be exposed. BotW's weapon mechanics have tons of benefits. You can offer extremely powerful, off-curve gear as a reward for risky behavior, for instance - like the Colluseum and Hyrule Castle being choc full of 80+ damage gear right from when you get off the Plateau. Plus, that makes rushing the Castle for a 30-minute speedrun a viable tactic where you won't be reduced to beating Ganon to death with a sharp stick and bomb spam; the castle can be loaded with game-breakingly good gear, because that gear will break before the game does. Not to mention that the Great Plateau itself, one of the absolute pinnacles of game design, is fully designed around how item consumption and combat work in BotW. Now, BotW has flaws as you progress. In the late-game, combat becomes a chore - and an easily-skipped one, at that. But the combat is also never difficult beyond time- and resource- consumption. Item consumption takes place in stopped time, enemies have too much HP, and enemy battle patterns are way less reactive and engaging than they should be considering the lack of variety. If I were in charge of the combat changes for BotW2, I would probably increase durability on some weapons, or allow repair of lategame weapons. But I'd also drastically reduce fast travel (especially in threat scenarios), add MonHun/Dark Souls style animations for item consumption, and rethink how combat arenas are structured in the game world pretty heavily. Speaking of MonHun, that game has weapon durability, too. They just call it sharpness, and managing it is a huge part of the calculus of both pre-hunt preparation and in-hunt decision-making. I think whetstones with sharpening animations could fit well into BotW2, with the obvious caveat of there being some way to rapidly upkeep your weapons when "safe", because otherwise it'd get tedious. Anyway, I worry that the backlash to weapon durability might lead Nintendo to remove that without shoring up the other parts of the combat that are more seriously lacking. DoctorWhat fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 05:52
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if were talking stupid game mechanics that add absolutely nothing but are just there from inertia you can't beat crafting in non survival games imo. weapon durability could never
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Jun 17, 2021 05:56
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