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Kunabomber posted:They have the Honda E coming, and that car is a legit head turner. They'll be fine. While it is a neat car, with a 35 kWh pack it's basically a city car and quite an expensive one at that. I doubt it would sell well in the US.
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Jun 17, 2021 15:43
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Godholio posted:It ran me about $300 to have a 14-50 outlet installed on the same wall (opposite side, about 4 feet to the side) as the breaker box. I’m pretty sure it’s the European spec 240vac unit with a different warning label and plug on the end. I firmly believe that the US picked the wrong residential service voltage. 
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Jun 17, 2021 16:23
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MrYenko posted:I’m pretty sure it’s the European spec 240vac unit with a different warning label and plug on the end. 110-120 volts is less likely to kill you if you get shocked. On the other hand, our physical plugs are garbage compared to EU or UK plugs since you can physically touch a metal prong while it's in contact with the mains. We also lack GFCI detectors as standard in all outlets, instead only using them where water is likely to be present, meaning the only "failsafe" for electrocution is you drawing so much current through your body that you flip the breaker, rather than that the electricity is going where it shouldn't. I'd say our electrical system is pretty bad, but it being 110-120 at for residential and (light) commercial use is not one of them.
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Jun 17, 2021 16:31
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MrYenko posted:I’m pretty sure it’s the European spec 240vac unit with a different warning label and plug on the end. It is exactly that. The same unit was included with the Euro spec Bolt (Ampera-E), just with a different plug. Taken apart, everything in it is rated for 240v. And the silkscreen on the PCB is even labeled "L1/L" and "L2/N".
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Jun 17, 2021 16:42
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Nitrousoxide posted:I'd say our electrical system is pretty bad, but it being 110-120 at for residential and (light) commercial use is not one of them. Around here we almost always have 400V three-phase to residential breaker panels, that's just how the distribution works (except in really old buildings that haven't had their electrical panels touched since the stone age).  You don't always have it at your apartment's panel if you live in a multi-unit building, but it's not uncommon either. Electric stoves that run on 400V three-phase are common. 50-60A single phase circuits weird me out.
TheFluff fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 17:11
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Mr. Wiggles posted:The E has fantastic design, but poor range. Not a lot of market for that outside of Japan. I would buy one in a heartbeat. Pretty much the only vehicle I leave the city on has wings anyway, so I don't care about the range. It would be the perfect commuter. Also it's pretty much the only new car I've found remotely interesting or cool in ages. Maybe Honda will bring it to Canada before they kill it? Here's hoping.
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Jun 17, 2021 17:12
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stevewm posted:While it is a neat car, with a 35 kWh pack it's basically a city car and quite an expensive one at that. I doubt it would sell well in the US. No it's not. At least in pretty much all of Europe a 35kWh battery is fine for pretty much every one who's job isn't "driving a car a lot". Even here in Europe there's this weird notion that a small car with only 250km of range is only good for the city and thats just bullshit. As if everyone who lives in a small village needs to drive 500km a day while transporting three cows and twelve chicken. Now it might be different in the US where, as far as I know, everyone either lives in a concrete urban hell, a MacMansion or off the grid back in some dark woods. That being said, the Honda E is still too expensive for what it is. It's a shame really cause it's a really pretty car. Shai-Hulud fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 17:16
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TheFluff posted:Around here we almost always have 400V three-phase to residential breaker panels, that's just how the distribution works. In the US, it's 220-240v two-phase power to residential breakers, which gets split into two, one-phase 110-120v streams. Some high power items recombine both phases again with a "dual pull" breaker back into 220-240v. Many apartment buildings, and pretty much all industrial sites get 3 phase, 208v power which gets split into 120v single phase or 208v two-phase (because of GEOMETRY!) for the individual residents. Really, the underlying backbone for our power infrastructure is really similar with the EU/UK. It's just past the breaker box that things vary. Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 17:21
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Nfcknblvbl posted:The Honda E isn't selling well at all, December was the only month they sold over 1k of them in Europe. There’s a Chinese look-alike with more range that sells for less than $10k.
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Jun 17, 2021 17:37
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VideoGameVet posted:There’s a Chinese look-alike with more range that sells for less than $10k. With 1.1 million new BEV sales in 2020, China's without a doubt way ahead of the rest. Won't be long until names like Xpeng & Nio enter North American households.
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Jun 17, 2021 17:42
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Nitrousoxide posted:In the US, it's 220-240v two-phase power to residential breakers, which gets split into two, one-phase 110-120v streams. Some high power items recombine both phases again with a "dual pull" breaker back into 220-240v. 400V is pretty great to have at home, though I only have an 11kw charger in my car. Is anywhere else apart from the us on 110V? It seems absurd having such high currents going through your charging cable. I know it's probably too late to change but 110V isn't even enough to power an iron properly, surely at some point you guys can cope with 240V sockets in your houses.
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Jun 17, 2021 18:32
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knox_harrington posted:400V is pretty great to have at home, though I only have an 11kw charger in my car. Japan uses 100v and the same plugs as the US. Canada's system is basically a copy of the US system. Mexico uses 120v as well. Standard sockets in the US are 120v, 15A. Continuous loads are limited to 80% of that, so 12A. Some people do charge EVs on these sockets, but it's dreadfully slow. Most EV owners end up getting a Level 2 charger connected to a 240v circuit, either hardwired or plugged in. 240v is available in any US home. High power things like stoves, ovens, dryers, water heaters, etc. are pretty much always on 240v circuits. Your average US home also typically has 200A service. 48kW of power available!
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Jun 17, 2021 18:46
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knox_harrington posted:Is anywhere else apart from the us on 110V? It seems absurd having such high currents going through your charging cable. I know it's probably too late to change but 110V isn't even enough to power an iron properly, surely at some point you guys can cope with 240V sockets in your houses. Japan is officially on 100v, and can't make up its mind whether it's 50 or 60 hz. In the literally tens of times in my life I've ever bothered to use an iron, I've found 110v to be sufficient.
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Jun 17, 2021 18:47
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Shai-Hulud posted:That being said, the Honda E is still too expensive for what it is. It's a shame really cause it's a really pretty car. There is the twingo, fortwo and now 500 in the honda e segment, all of which cost a fair bit less. I am not surprised that honda sells low to nothing, it costs more than a zoe in my area while having a shitton less range.
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Jun 17, 2021 18:48
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My in-laws' houses in Sao Paulo are 127V. Northeastern Brazil uses 220V I think. Edit: The only place I wish I had 240V other than in my garage is in my kitchen for an electric kettle, I'm jealous that Brits can heat their water up so fast. Nfcknblvbl fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 18:48
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Gonna hire an electrician to run a NEMA 6-20 to my kitchen so I can have my tea sooner.
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Jun 17, 2021 18:59
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Nfcknblvbl posted:Gonna hire an electrician to run a NEMA 6-20 to my kitchen so I can have my tea sooner. If you're going to be modifying your electric kettle to attach a custom plug anyway, why not go with a 15-30R? 6kW ought to get your tea heated up in a jiffy. E: drat it, now I'm doing unit arithmetic again.
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Jun 17, 2021 19:10
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cruft posted:If you're going to be modifying your electric kettle to attach a custom plug anyway, why not go with a 15-30R? 6kW ought to get your tea heated up in a jiffy. Why limit yourself to 30A? Throw in a 14-50 and then you can charge your car after you've finished heating up your tea!
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Jun 17, 2021 19:17
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SlowBloke posted:There is the twingo, fortwo and now 500 in the honda e segment, all of which cost a fair bit less. I am not surprised that honda sells low to nothing, it costs more than a zoe in my area while having a shitton less range. Is the electric mini in that segment or bigger? It's a couple k less and 10 miles more range but still not great value.
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Jun 17, 2021 19:18
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stevewm posted:Why limit yourself to 30A? Throw in a 14-50 and then you can charge your car after you've finished heating up your tea! I'll just save my money, and plug a British kettle into the 14-50R in my garage.
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Jun 17, 2021 19:19
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cakesmith handyman posted:Is the electric mini in that segment or bigger? It's a couple k less and 10 miles more range but still not great value. The electric mini was always sort of pegged as its key market competitor. I'd rather have the e.
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Jun 17, 2021 19:26
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For those not in North America, for reference: this: Is the often talked about "14-50" plug. It has become the defacto standard for plug-in Level 2 EVSEs in the NA market. It is also the standard plug for electric stoves/ovens and becoming more common in the RV world as well. The receptacle looks like this:  It is fairly large. Larger than the UK standard plug. But it is also rated for 240v 50A. And why 4 pins? Because of our split-phase power.  A device with a 14-50 has both 120v and 240v available to it! stevewm fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 19:44
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Okay, I'm done. This all assumes perfect conversion of electricity to heat. My wild-rear end guess is a kettle is around 75% efficient. This is based on nothing. A 30A 250V circuit running at 80% capacity would boil a room temperature 250ml cup of tea in 13 seconds at sea level. A 50A 250V circuit would take 7⅖ seconds. A 110kW DC fast charger would take just under ¾ second. A 300kW DC fast charger would take ¼ second. This puts into perspective for me just how much energy 300kW is. Being able to mass produce something that can charge at 300kW is quite the engineering feat! E: showing my work in case I screwed up on what a calorie is 
cruft fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 19:55
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Kunabomber posted:Actually, didn't the available literature say that the 80A Ford Pro Chargers are only to be installed by a certified partner? That makes me think that it's not just a regular charger, it could also have current transformers attached to the line side of the panel to measure total usage and pare back the power consumption so it doesn't trip anything. cruft posted:Okay, I'm done. This all assumes perfect conversion of electricity to heat. My wild-rear end guess is a kettle is around 75% efficient. This is based on nothing.
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Jun 17, 2021 20:14
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wolrah posted:AFAIK the professional installation requirement for the Ford Pro charger is due to it being capable of bidirectional operation. Obviously that requires other components to allow such operation safely. Right, it probably has an automatic transfer switch function which would require some rewiring of the branch circuits. I also can't see an 80A charger on a 100A breaker being possible on a residential circuit without some kind of overall usage monitoring going on.
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Jun 17, 2021 20:18
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cruft posted:Okay, I'm done. This all assumes perfect conversion of electricity to heat. My wild-rear end guess is a kettle is around 75% efficient. This is based on nothing. brb, rewiring my house so I can have tea in 3 minutes and 1/4 second
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Jun 17, 2021 20:19
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Kunabomber posted:Right, it probably has an automatic transfer switch function which would require some rewiring of the branch circuits. Tesla did it with no problems... In the US, Model S and X could be equipped with dual chargers allowing for 80A AC charging. (later reduced to 72A when they switched to a single charger). The first gen of the Tesla High Power Wall Connector would allow the max 80A and had to be on a 100A breaker. Tesla no longer offers that option; all of their vehicles max out at 48A AC charging now. stevewm fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 20:22
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stevewm posted:For those not in North America, for reference: this: Yeah, and the idiots who wired this up at the place I live in, made it 110v only. $1500 to fix.
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Jun 17, 2021 20:23
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VideoGameVet posted:Yeah, and the idiots who wired this up at the place I live in, made it 110v only. Wow... surely they weren't professional electricians.
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Jun 17, 2021 20:29
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stevewm posted:Tesla did it with no problems... In the US, Model S and X could be equipped with dual chargers allowing for 80A AC charging. (later reduced to 72A when they switched to a single charger). The first gen of the Tesla High Power Wall Connector would allow the max 80A and had to be on a 100A breaker. Yeeahhh I know that most houses use maybe 50% of the rated amperage of a 200A panel, but I really wouldn't want to hook up a device that has the potential to take up the other 50% in an instant without some kind of coordination of loads (lol)
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Jun 17, 2021 20:42
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Kunabomber posted:Yeeahhh I know that most houses use maybe 50% of the rated amperage of a 200A panel, but I really wouldn't want to hook up a device that has the potential to take up the other 50% in an instant without some kind of coordination of loads (lol) That's what the main breaker is for! I would also probably be concerned with a device pulling 80A for a couple hours at a time...
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Jun 17, 2021 20:45
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You guys are going to love the Plug And Socket Museum website https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl I get my 400V through the 3 socket and 6 plug on this page https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Swiss_3hd.html
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Jun 17, 2021 21:00
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knox_harrington posted:You guys are going to love the Plug And Socket Museum website I'm surprised... I guess I expected a more substantial plug and socket for 400v.
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Jun 17, 2021 21:11
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stevewm posted:I'm surprised... I guess I expected a more substantial plug and socket for 400v. The main risk as you increase the voltage is arcing, since a higher voltage can span larger and larger air gaps before its resistance acts as an effective insulator. Ironically, at really high voltages you can have a thinner wire and carry the same power. It's low voltage, high power where your need big beefy cables.
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Jun 17, 2021 21:15
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Wires are rated by ampacity. Voltage drop becomes an issue when the conductors get really long (typically 3% drop is all you would tolerate) so it would affect conductor size as well, but in the context of short residential runs it really doesn't factor in. You have to do some math to decrease the assumed current carrying capacity of a conductor if there's multiple bundled together due to heat, etc but most tables are built around the assumption that you would bundle 3 conductors for a circuit. edit: should also add that most wire is rated for 600V, specialty application cable can go further but we're talking about like... half inch thick insulation and beyond Kunabomber fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 21:28
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cakesmith handyman posted:Is the electric mini in that segment or bigger? It's a couple k less and 10 miles more range but still not great value. In my limited knowledge/experience people prefer to invest more to get a decently specced Zoe or leaf or if the issue is size, jump down to twingo or fortwo. Mini electrics or Honda e are super rare here.
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Jun 17, 2021 22:04
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Ford just sent me a survey on the Lightning I  Edit: Not ordered. Nfcknblvbl fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 22:34
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Huh, is that from Ford corporate or from the dealership? I didn't get any emails.
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Jun 17, 2021 22:36
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from: Ford Motor Company <reply@m.email-ford.com> reply-to: "reply@m.email-ford.com" <myford@customersupportctr.com> I hope they have something between the Lariat and the Lariat + Premium Package where I can get the big battery but without all the extra premium stuff. Edit: Now they're asking what kind of extra accessories I'd want. 
Nfcknblvbl fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 22:38
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Nfcknblvbl posted:from: Ford Motor Company <reply@m.email-ford.com> Looks like you can option the big battery down into the XLT package. Personally I think the XLT+ is the sweet spot, and option the big battery on it if you need it.
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Jun 17, 2021 22:42
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