Nibble posted:I'm at a slow point in my Synergism game and looking to fill some time. Any recommendations for pretty active games (but not clickers) that can be completed in a few days to a week? understanding Ordinal Markup's math is for math grognards, just fiddling with it should give you all the insight you need to play it not that there is a lot to the gameplay exactly...
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Jun 17, 2021 20:59
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Ineptitude posted:Prestige Tree (and its myriad of spin-offs and mods) I've played both of these! Never really looked into mods though, but I've heard there are some good ones. Ignatius M. Meen posted:understanding Ordinal Markup's math is for math grognards, just fiddling with it should give you all the insight you need to play it Yeah I'm 6 factor shifts in and it's like.. the notation makes sense for how it ticks up in the game, but I can't map it to any mathematical thing it's supposed to be representing. I can follow explanations of what ω, ω+1, ω*2 etc. are, but once it gets to ωω I'm lost as to what that represents and nothing seems to explain it well.
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Jun 17, 2021 21:06
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What the actual number being displayed means is functionally irrelevant, though. Like, it ain't gonna slam itself shut until you mathematically explain how you just reached Graham's Number. I'm pretty sure the only thing you need to really understand as far as that goes is that the number in bracket is the base, so it starts as base-10 and ticks down every Shift until it reaches base-3 (which you only need to really care about for your OP anyway). And after that it gets easier to follow, even if the number gets more opaque, because your progress can be measured via a handy bar that tracks it for you.
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Jun 17, 2021 21:25
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You can play antimatter dimensions with the Emoji notation just fine. It doesn't matter as long as you the player can naturally learn which number is bigger through playing.
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Jun 17, 2021 21:26
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Nibble posted:Yeah I'm 6 factor shifts in and it's like.. the notation makes sense for how it ticks up in the game, but I can't map it to any mathematical thing it's supposed to be representing. I can follow explanations of what ω, ω+1, ω*2 etc. are, but once it gets to ωω I'm lost as to what that represents and nothing seems to explain it well. so let's say you are working in base 3 with digits 0, 1, and 2. 0 = 0, 1 = 1, 2 = 2, 3 = ..??? okay, not really, 3 = 10, 4 = 11, 5 = 12, 6 = 100... then at some point you get the fancy w, but you're still in base 3. so you get to w + 2, add 1.... well, you can't have w + 3! so you get w2. then you get to w2 + 2 and add 1 and..... you can't have w2 + 3, nor w3! so you have w^2 instead. now, you get to w^2 + w2 + 2 and try to add 1, but w^3 does not make sense because there is no digit of 3, only 0, 1, and 2. thus you can only represent w^3 with w^w. the base logic breaks again at w^w^w because base 3 only allows for 0, 1, or 2 w's. so instead you get the next thingy e: if you are looking for a better explanation than that you are thinking way too hard about it Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 22:26
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Yeah up until the first booster takes maybe 1-2 hours and you don't need to worry about the notation much. The game tells you the time until challenges complete or you get boosters nowadays, so you never really need to learn the notation. Only important thing is your Dynamic Factor which grows to 10x over 75 minutes by default.
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Jun 17, 2021 23:47
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:so let's say you are working in base 3 with digits 0, 1, and 2. 0 = 0, 1 = 1, 2 = 2, 3 = ..??? That actually did make it clearer, thanks. So as it's used in the game, it's just a different representation of counting with different bases, where ω is the current base. So for a standard base of 10, ω2 is 20, ω2 is 100, and ωω is 1010. Seems overcomplicated at first, but I guess it makes sense to keep up with the constantly changing bases, and what happens when you reach the maximum of each base. GrossMurpel posted:Yeah up until the first booster takes maybe 1-2 hours and you don't need to worry about the notation much. The game tells you the time until challenges complete or you get boosters nowadays, so you never really need to learn the notation. Yeah I just got some boosters and the progress bar has been helpful for the end of runs. I don't get if the "reset for OP, hit Max All, instantly achieve the next number, reset for OP..." loop has something to do with the math behind it or is just how they wanted the game to play when you reach that point, but it's alright so far.
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Jun 18, 2021 01:51
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New dev build of Orb of Creation is up. Some UI tweaks and a change to how things stack to be additive which should stop the late game from breaking when you cast 6 buff spells then a single spell. https://marple.itch.io/orb-of-creation I have like 30 minutes and haven't found a game breaking bug but they probably still exist this is super early development. This feels like a much more solid base than the last build and I think the dev is on the right path to a good idle game.
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Jun 18, 2021 14:06
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Welp. There goes another chunk of my weekend.
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Jun 18, 2021 14:54
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Note that Orb of Creation has problem with saving if Firefox's Enchanced Tracking Protection is on! The feature can be disabled by pressing the shield button left to the address bar at the relevant webpage.
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Jun 18, 2021 16:26
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Orb of Creation seems neat so far, but very hands on right now. Does it eventually get more idle-ey as it goes on and stuff opens up?
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Jun 18, 2021 16:51
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explosivo posted:Orb of Creation seems neat so far, but very hands on right now. Does it eventually get more idle-ey as it goes on and stuff opens up? Last dev build you could break and hit max value of things (hardcrashing the game) after 2-3 hours. This build is a bunch slower but if you use "heavy" modifier you can make interactions more like every few minutes to be optimal and buffers that take hours to fill passively. It's very early and the current dev goal is to make spell interactions feel good and not break. They felt really good last build. I'm liking them so far this build but they are certainly not as crazy as when everything multiplied with everything else so every spell slot was an exponential boost.
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Jun 18, 2021 16:58
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Cool, thanks for the info. I might hang off on it for a bit then if it's still pretty short and early on. Plus I'm looking more for something I can poke occasionally while W'ing FH but not too hands on that it requires intervention to make progress.
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Jun 18, 2021 17:02
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pixaal posted:Last dev build you could break and hit max value of things (hardcrashing the game) after 2-3 hours. This build is a bunch slower but if you use "heavy" modifier you can make interactions more like every few minutes to be optimal and buffers that take hours to fill passively. Yeah, there was a lag problem for me last build too. This one is much smoother. Some cool and good changes so far, but I'm not sure I like having to time casts for optimal effect or it's lost. There are some really fun new spells and upgrades though, this is full of good changes so far.
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Jun 18, 2021 17:24
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Yeah Heavy Surged spells mean you can poke at it every couple of minutes instead of the pretty hectic pace it wants before those augments. I'm really liking this new batch of changes.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:04
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welp, i'm mulling over a proper ngu 2 that would have more runescape-like grind characteristics, with a battle network-ish adventure system and then i see all this talk
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Jun 18, 2021 18:22
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I think ideally an idle game needs some solid content to hook you to start, but after about 30 minutes needs to show you that it's a short game with an end in sight today or it needs to start introducing more idle elements. If you want a game that people will play for years you really don't want to ask for more than an hour a day of the player or you risk losing someone to them feeling left behind because they had a busy week. Asking for more around patches or to get over certain humps is fine. I'm sure there is a group that is looking to sink 16 hours a day for years on end into an idle game, but how big are they? How do you reach them? How do you turn that into money? (16 hours means no time for a job) Throw ads at them? That sounds like a mobile idle game which tend to be way more active and demanding. There's obviously a massive gap in the middle which is where a game should land. Honestly being up front with the time commitment goals and expectations of an idle game is probably the best way to set balance goals and player expectations. I haven't seen anyone go out and lay it out this way though.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:29
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pixaal posted:I think ideally an idle game needs some solid content to hook you to start, but after about 30 minutes needs to show you that it's a short game with an end in sight today or it needs to start introducing more idle elements.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:34
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something posted:battle network You had me at hello.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:35
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DACK FAYDEN posted:30 minutes is way too long to wait for more idle elements jesus christ I tune out after maybe ten tops I mean show a bar that will take days or a week to fill up, not require me to click non stop. If the autoclick phase is more than 20 seconds and it's not from before like 2017 it's probably terrible.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:35
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Honestly with an idle game start out simple and build. Providing too many tools from the start is going to be overwhelming. I find a lot of what makes an idle game good is the player naturally learning weird mechanics. NGU had great spacing for all the mechanics allowing you to learn them before moving on to the next one with the less interesting ones falling off a bit.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:42
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A hypothetical NGU2 would interest me 100x more if the loop was slightly shorter than 24 hours (a common thing I see in other games is 20 hour resets). Feeling pressured not to reset until just past the last time I started playing means that I can't just slot in some Idle Game time at the same time every day (say, with my morning coffee), because the reset keeps getting pushed back a little each day.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:47
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Toshimo posted:A hypothetical NGU2 would interest me 100x more if the loop was slightly shorter than 24 hours (a common thing I see in other games is 20 hour resets). Feeling pressured not to reset until just past the last time I started playing means that I can't just slot in some Idle Game time at the same time every day (say, with my morning coffee), because the reset keeps getting pushed back a little each day. This is definitely noticeable with farming in NGU-I right now, I imagine there was an upgrade planned for that that hasn't been implemented yet since it was the same thing with Yggdrasil.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:53
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pixaal posted:Honestly with an idle game start out simple and build. Providing too many tools from the start is going to be overwhelming. I find a lot of what makes an idle game good is the player naturally learning weird mechanics. NGU had great spacing for all the mechanics allowing you to learn them before moving on to the next one with the less interesting ones falling off a bit. I checked out Idling to Rule The Gods or whatever it's called and had this exact issue with it. It's clearly influenced by NGU but it's like starting NGU with most of the tabs available from the start and I kinda felt like the dev didn't really understand that the gradual piling on of mechanics is a big part of what made NGU so engrossing.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:56
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explosivo posted:I checked out Idling to Rule The Gods or whatever it's called and had this exact issue with it. It's clearly influenced by NGU but it's like starting NGU with most of the tabs available from the start and I kinda felt like the dev didn't really understand that the gradual piling on of mechanics is a big part of what made NGU so engrossing. Idling to Rule the Gods is what inspired NGU it's much older
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Jun 18, 2021 18:57
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Enjoying the heck outta NGU Idle. I bought too many AP and I'm doing my best to not buy any more. No regrets. I'm not sure where else to ask this, but Discord mostly displays NGU Idle or Wallpaper Engine as my currently played game. It looks like there's no way to filter out specific games in the options, so I was wondering if anyone knows of a plugin that can do that.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:58
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Hell, there are even a bunch of resources and guides that credit 4G as one of the top ITRTG players.
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Jun 18, 2021 18:58
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More big chunky progress upgrades and less small 0.05% 1/175 style upgrades, please. NGU 1 had a lot of the small stuff in the last few systems introduced while earlier content tended to be chuftier, NGU:I has both but at least I can go into like Experiments and get some nice big %s from time to time and really feel it.
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Jun 18, 2021 19:00
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also, might be tmi - i *think* i am financially, basically at fortress of solitude, don't have to work another day in my life now. just making poo poo i want cause its fun now, if it sucks (like ngu-i i guess, :c) i do apologise but at least i'll enjoy making it thank yall deeply, for playing and buying stuff to make this possible  Arzaac posted:Hell, there are even a bunch of resources and guides that credit 4G as one of the top ITRTG players. I was DEEP as hell into itrtg from around 2016-2017, i only stopped once ngu exploded something fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jun 18, 2021 |
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Jun 18, 2021 19:00
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Holy poo poo dude that's awesome! Sounds like you're basically living the dream right now. Also regarding this something posted:welp, i'm mulling over a proper ngu 2 that would have more runescape-like grind characteristics, with a battle network-ish adventure system and then i see all this talk You mention runescape and battle network, I'd get this day 1
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Jun 18, 2021 19:02
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something posted:also, might be tmi - i *think* i am financially, basically at fortress of solitude, don't have to work another day in my life now. Congrats, brother. Go smoke a bunch of weed and pick berries naked or some poo poo like we were meant to do!
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Jun 18, 2021 19:05
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holy poo poo congrats (but also it's loving crazy to me that people pay money for idle games) but like I said earlier in this post congrats, you worked hard as hell you deserve it 
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Jun 18, 2021 19:05
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something posted:also, might be tmi - i *think* i am financially, basically at fortress of solitude, don't have to work another day in my life now. Holy poo poo, that is incredible. You make great games and it's awesome to see it's been paying the bills.
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Jun 18, 2021 19:06
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this can be considered the first unofficial design doc ideas i showed musluk (ngu art guy if you somehow dunno and also goon) https://imgur.com/a/MnN5gtT\ so 3x3 grid, baddies on other 3x3 grid, you move with wasd to avoid certain hits, others just hit you 100% like in ngu idle i'll think of some way to make it somewhat idle friendly, but active play will matter considerably more than in ngu you'll also have moves to do more damage maybe, or put up like an aura to say, resist a type of damage by 1/3 or something, akin to protection prayers in runescape then add in a lot of loot in a similar style to ngu to affect combat and also side features you'll unlock along the way those will likely have also a skill grinding system also akin to runescape but you can tag a couple skills to work idle offline, at some fraction of online capacity. thats all i got, its all just a twinkle in my eye, first step i need to learn how to truly animate stuff codewise in unity cause a big upgrade i wanna do is animation and also showing your gear you wear actively on your avatar
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Jun 18, 2021 19:08
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pixaal posted:Idling to Rule the Gods is what inspired NGU it's much older Oh well I feel stupid now
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Jun 18, 2021 19:11
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something posted:this can be considered the first unofficial design doc ideas i showed musluk (ngu art guy if you somehow dunno and also goon) You don't have to stick to idle games if you have an idea for a more traditional RPG. This does seem workable as an idle though if you want to go that route based on your summary. Like you could simply limit the number of battles you can do in a day. Now people don't feel like they are falling behind.
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Jun 18, 2021 19:15
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pixaal posted:You don't have to stick to idle games if you have an idea for a more traditional RPG. This does seem workable as an idle though if you want to go that route based on your summary. Like you could simply limit the number of battles you can do in a day. Now people don't feel like they are falling behind. This would rule, the world could use a Kingdom of Loathing-esque game not run by an abuser.
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Jun 18, 2021 19:29
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aw what, it's probably been a decade since I logged into KoL but that's a bummer
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Jun 18, 2021 19:58
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It came out in 2019, basic overview is here. There was some more I'm not going to unearth, but apparently the inner circle of that dev team was not a great place for women.
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Jun 18, 2021 20:10
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Oh and I was going to ask about the sales numbers for NGU:I, but I was worried the answer wasn't going to be great. That is awesome news 4G, it's really good to see that games of this kind can be viable (for a single dev anyway) without all the predatory tactics.
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Jun 18, 2021 20:19
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