PYF BadAss Pics: Either way your hucked

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logical fallacy: Mar 16, 2001; Dynamic Symmetry

Snowy posted:

So if we could travel faster than the speed of light could we take an amazing telescope far enough into space that we could turn it around and and see any event in history depending on how far we traveled?

Only if the light reaching your amazing telescope also travelled faster than the speed of light.

# ? Jun 19, 2021 16:24

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# ? May 28, 2024 23:30

Snowy: Oct 6, 2010; A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense

logical fallacy posted:

Only if the light reaching your amazing telescope also travelled faster than the speed of light.

But you need to get ahead of it to be able to see into the past

# ? Jun 19, 2021 16:25

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I think travelling faster than the speed of light causes problems for relativistic time as well. The faster you go the slower time passes for you relative to things going slower, and if you were able to go faster than light I think you would have to be going backwards or something.

I don't really understand how relativity works to be honest, physics is all a scam set up by big mathematics who conspire to make satellites not work if you don't employ them.

# ? Jun 19, 2021 16:27

logical fallacy: Mar 16, 2001; Dynamic Symmetry

Snowy posted:

But you need to get ahead of it to be able to see into the past

Yeah I had that completely backwards. It would have to be incredibly precise FTL travel because as far as I can tell that would be the only thing determining what you saw looking back. Unless the ship could overshoot the target distance, decelerate instantly, turn back around, and then more precisely line up. But without that, much like a small change in direction can make a huge difference in where you end up, a small change in speed could mean you're off by centuries or more for what you want to see.

It would make a good plot to a sf book to have a ship heading towards a habitable planet many lightyears away, only to watch (through an amazing telescope) another species' civilization evolve before them. In fact, I think I've read a short story like this, only it just involved humans.

# ? Jun 19, 2021 17:02

Snowy: Oct 6, 2010; A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense

logical fallacy posted:

In fact, I think I've read a short story like this, only it just involved humans.

I�d like to read it! The story I usually come up with is a space telescope for hire that can solve mysteries throughout history

E- my job can get pretty repetitive sometimes so I keep some dumb ideas like this in my back pocket to either get funny conversations going or have people say �what�s wrong with you?�

# ? Jun 19, 2021 17:07

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Ken Liu wrote a novella called The Man Who Ended History: A Documentary where they do some photon entanglement stuff to observe the past, only observing something is thus a one-time thing for one person. its p good

# ? Jun 19, 2021 19:02

Taeke: Feb 2, 2010

central dogma posted:

Also, I'd like to introduce everyone to a nice microbiology channel called Journey to the Microcosmos. No biology background necessary. The microscopy is pretty cool and the narrator's voice is great for sleepy time. This video keeps up with the death/void trend of the last few pages.

It seems to be a fairly popular channel, so sorry if it's been mentioned before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRmbWj2ZITM

Wow, Hank Green sounds really pleasant when he's talking in a slower tempo rather than that superfast speech he does for his sci show and crash course videos. (Not that I hate those, btw, it's just surprising.)

# ? Jun 19, 2021 19:53

TontoCorazon: Aug 18, 2007

Taeke posted:

Wow, Hank Green sounds really pleasant when he's talking in a slower tempo rather than that superfast speech he does for his sci show and crash course videos. (Not that I hate those, btw, it's just surprising.)

Its like audible melatonin

# ? Jun 19, 2021 21:32

DontMockMySmock: Aug 9, 2008; I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Snowy posted:

So if we could travel faster than the speed of light could we take an amazing telescope far enough into space that we could turn it around and and see any event in history depending on how far we traveled?

In principle, to some extent you could investigate history in this way. But of course, if FTL is possible, then all of our "principles" go out the window anyway.

Leaving that big problem aside, though, "in principle" is still really far from "in practice." The limitations are probably a lot more severe than you think. In order to see something with a telescope, you've gotta collect a sufficient amount of light for you to tell the difference between a light and dark part of the image. And if you're looking at something really far away, there's not a lot of light to collect. We're only able to see stuff that's really far away (e.g. the supermassive black hole images that were released recently, or the Hubble Deep Field) by collecting light for a long, long time. If you're familiar with photography at all, this is the same reason why you need a slower shutter speed in low-light conditions - a slower shutter keeps the aperture open longer to collect more light.

Let's say you wanted to witness Julius Caesar's army crossing the Rubicon in 49 BC, and you want to perhaps lip-read Caesar to see if he really said "the die is cast". So you get in your newly discovered FTL teleport ship and teleport to 49+2021 = 2070 light years away, in whatever direction you've calculated lets you see the Italian peninsula. So here's some really rough back-of-the-envelope calculations:

If you want to read Caesar's lips, you're going to have to have a "shutter speed" on your camera of like 1/20 of a second or something, to get video that isn't too choppy. And you're going to need to resolve sizes of about a centimeter or maybe even less. So how much light energy does one square centimeter of human skin in sunlight give off? Under the most ideal conditions, it can't be more than 0.1368 watts, if it has an albedo of 1 and is angled perfectly in direct sunlight. Let's call it 0.1W. At a visible wavelength of 500-600nm, that's gonna be ~3*10^-19 J per photon. 0.1W / 3e-19J * 1/20 s/frame = ~1.5*10^16 photons per frame. These photons are spread across a sphere 2070 light years in diameter, so that's a surface area of ~5*10^39 m^2, and dividing by 1.5*10^16, that gives ~3*10^23 square meters of collecting area required to capture a single photon, which corresponds to a radius of 3*10^11 m. You're gonna need to collect more than one photon for good data, though - so maybe 100 times that area. So you're looking at a telescope with an aperture about 10^13 m in diameter, which is almost half a light-day, or roughly the size of the orbit of Neptune. As in, tiny-rear end Neptune will travel along the rim of your Dyson-sphere-sized telescope. And if you want to look further back in time than that, the calculations only get worse.

If you relax your targets, and say you only want a snapshot of Earth with a resolution of, say, a square mile, so you can see cities and stuff, then you can do better - but you're gonna have to contend with the rotation of the Earth, so you can't do a lot better - you can still only collect light for about four seconds before the equator rotates by about a mile and blurs your image.

# ? Jun 19, 2021 21:32

Uncle Enzo: Apr 28, 2008; I always wanted to be a Wizard

What about receiving radio transmissions? What if there was a laser with NBC news encoded on it, shining along a vector fixed with respect to (say) the solar system? Let's say the laser has about the same amount of power behind it as an AM radio station, 50kw. How far out could it plausibly be received?

# ? Jun 19, 2021 21:48

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

DontMockMySmock posted:

In principle, to some extent you could investigate history in this way. But of course, if FTL is possible, then all of our "principles" go out the window anyway.

Leaving that big problem aside, though, "in principle" is still really far from "in practice." The limitations are probably a lot more severe than you think. In order to see something with a telescope, you've gotta collect a sufficient amount of light for you to tell the difference between a light and dark part of the image. And if you're looking at something really far away, there's not a lot of light to collect. We're only able to see stuff that's really far away (e.g. the supermassive black hole images that were released recently, or the Hubble Deep Field) by collecting light for a long, long time. If you're familiar with photography at all, this is the same reason why you need a slower shutter speed in low-light conditions - a slower shutter keeps the aperture open longer to collect more light.

Let's say you wanted to witness Julius Caesar's army crossing the Rubicon in 49 BC, and you want to perhaps lip-read Caesar to see if he really said "the die is cast". So you get in your newly discovered FTL teleport ship and teleport to 49+2021 = 2070 light years away, in whatever direction you've calculated lets you see the Italian peninsula. So here's some really rough back-of-the-envelope calculations:

If you want to read Caesar's lips, you're going to have to have a "shutter speed" on your camera of like 1/20 of a second or something, to get video that isn't too choppy. And you're going to need to resolve sizes of about a centimeter or maybe even less. So how much light energy does one square centimeter of human skin in sunlight give off? Under the most ideal conditions, it can't be more than 0.1368 watts, if it has an albedo of 1 and is angled perfectly in direct sunlight. Let's call it 0.1W. At a visible wavelength of 500-600nm, that's gonna be ~3*10^-19 J per photon. 0.1W / 3e-19J * 1/20 s/frame = ~1.5*10^16 photons per frame. These photons are spread across a sphere 2070 light years in diameter, so that's a surface area of ~5*10^39 m^2, and dividing by 1.5*10^16, that gives ~3*10^23 square meters of collecting area required to capture a single photon, which corresponds to a radius of 3*10^11 m. You're gonna need to collect more than one photon for good data, though - so maybe 100 times that area. So you're looking at a telescope with an aperture about 10^13 m in diameter, which is almost half a light-day, or roughly the size of the orbit of Neptune. As in, tiny-rear end Neptune will travel along the rim of your Dyson-sphere-sized telescope. And if you want to look further back in time than that, the calculations only get worse.

If you relax your targets, and say you only want a snapshot of Earth with a resolution of, say, a square mile, so you can see cities and stuff, then you can do better - but you're gonna have to contend with the rotation of the Earth, so you can't do a lot better - you can still only collect light for about four seconds before the equator rotates by about a mile and blurs your image.

nice! but if you have a FTL teleporter ship, you can just jump around the 3e23 m� area, perhaps going a bit further out every time to account for equipment setup/teardown

# ? Jun 19, 2021 21:54

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Uncle Enzo posted:

What about receiving radio transmissions? What if there was a laser with NBC news encoded on it, shining along a vector fixed with respect to (say) the solar system? Let's say the laser has about the same amount of power behind it as an AM radio station, 50kw. How far out could it plausibly be received?

I think that lasers have a pretty heavy upper limit on how long they can remain coherent because of physics or something.

# ? Jun 19, 2021 22:10

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

you just zap away and then zap back to earth and watch it from close up, because if you have a ftl space ship you literally have a time machine

# ? Jun 19, 2021 23:10

Snowy: Oct 6, 2010; A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense

DontMockMySmock posted:

In principle, to some extent you could investigate history in this way. But of course, if FTL is possible, then all of our "principles" go out the window anyway.

Leaving that big problem aside, though, "in principle" is still really far from "in practice." The limitations are probably a lot more severe than you think. In order to see something with a telescope, you've gotta collect a sufficient amount of light for you to tell the difference between a light and dark part of the image. And if you're looking at something really far away, there's not a lot of light to collect. We're only able to see stuff that's really far away (e.g. the supermassive black hole images that were released recently, or the Hubble Deep Field) by collecting light for a long, long time. If you're familiar with photography at all, this is the same reason why you need a slower shutter speed in low-light conditions - a slower shutter keeps the aperture open longer to collect more light.

Let's say you wanted to witness Julius Caesar's army crossing the Rubicon in 49 BC, and you want to perhaps lip-read Caesar to see if he really said "the die is cast". So you get in your newly discovered FTL teleport ship and teleport to 49+2021 = 2070 light years away, in whatever direction you've calculated lets you see the Italian peninsula. So here's some really rough back-of-the-envelope calculations:

If you want to read Caesar's lips, you're going to have to have a "shutter speed" on your camera of like 1/20 of a second or something, to get video that isn't too choppy. And you're going to need to resolve sizes of about a centimeter or maybe even less. So how much light energy does one square centimeter of human skin in sunlight give off? Under the most ideal conditions, it can't be more than 0.1368 watts, if it has an albedo of 1 and is angled perfectly in direct sunlight. Let's call it 0.1W. At a visible wavelength of 500-600nm, that's gonna be ~3*10^-19 J per photon. 0.1W / 3e-19J * 1/20 s/frame = ~1.5*10^16 photons per frame. These photons are spread across a sphere 2070 light years in diameter, so that's a surface area of ~5*10^39 m^2, and dividing by 1.5*10^16, that gives ~3*10^23 square meters of collecting area required to capture a single photon, which corresponds to a radius of 3*10^11 m. You're gonna need to collect more than one photon for good data, though - so maybe 100 times that area. So you're looking at a telescope with an aperture about 10^13 m in diameter, which is almost half a light-day, or roughly the size of the orbit of Neptune. As in, tiny-rear end Neptune will travel along the rim of your Dyson-sphere-sized telescope. And if you want to look further back in time than that, the calculations only get worse.

If you relax your targets, and say you only want a snapshot of Earth with a resolution of, say, a square mile, so you can see cities and stuff, then you can do better - but you're gonna have to contend with the rotation of the Earth, so you can't do a lot better - you can still only collect light for about four seconds before the equator rotates by about a mile and blurs your image.

This is amazing thank you. Unfortunately I�m very dumb but it�s still fun to read. Maybe I�ll adjust my telescope ship to fly along with the earth�s orbit to allow a longer and steadier shot, avoiding some of the blur you mentioned.

By the time I�m able to have a massive ftl telescope I think I�ll also have the ability to say �enhance� and have it work.

# ? Jun 19, 2021 23:19

Wasabi the J: Jan 23, 2008; MOM WAS RIGHT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrwgIjBUYVc

# ? Jun 20, 2021 00:44

The Lone Badger: Sep 24, 2007

Snowy posted:

So if we could travel faster than the speed of light could we take an amazing telescope far enough into space that we could turn it around and and see any event in history depending on how far we traveled?

If you can travel faster than light, then you can actually travel backwards in time and go visit history. Any FTL device is also a causality-violation device.

# ? Jun 20, 2021 01:22

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

but seriously read the ken liu story i mentioned earlier, its good

# ? Jun 20, 2021 01:23

Bobby Digital: Sep 4, 2009

https://twitter.com/worldsstrongest/status/1406417234642169857?s=21

# ? Jun 20, 2021 02:46

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

DontMockMySmock posted:

And if you want to look further back in time than that, the calculations only get worse.

For the Stupid/Small Question Thread, I calculated what it would take to get a decent photo of a T. rex.

Platystemon posted:

�Planet sized� is deeply understating it.

You have to catch photons from those dinosaurs, and they�re now spread over a hemisphere sixty‐five million light‐years in radius.

Like, suppose I had a camera on a tripod here on Earth, pointed at a dinosaur. Suppose I�m willing to put up with film with sensitivity of 6400 ISO, exposure of one twenty‐fifth of a second. In full daylight, I could then use an aperture of f/32. I�m using a 35 mm film camera with a lens of 50 mm. A T. rex is fifteen metres from me, and it fills the frame.

The aperture of my camera is a hole one and a half millimetres in diameter. I am capturing 0.68 parts per billion of all light coming from that dino.

If I want a similar image but now my camera is sixty‐five million light years away, I need a lens or mirror that is 0.68 billionths of the area of a sphere sixty‐five million light‐years in radius.

This would be a camera sixty‐five hundred light‐years in diameter. This is about a quarter of the distance from Earth to the centre of our galaxy. Jupiter is roughly two trillionths of that size.

Jupiter is actually closer to the size of an ordinary camera lens than to the galaxy‐spanning monstrosity necessary to image a dinosaur. Jupiter and the lens I was using differ in diameter by merely a factor of one hundred billion.

# ? Jun 20, 2021 03:47

Inceltown: Aug 6, 2019

Platystemon posted:

For the Stupid/Small Question Thread, I calculated what it would take to get a decent photo of a T. rex.

So this won't cut it then?

# ? Jun 20, 2021 04:55

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

OwlFancier posted:

Also the you that wakes up when you do sleep is arguably not continuous with the one that had trouble sleeping so that's someone else's problem.

What?

# ? Jun 21, 2021 15:07

Pookah: Aug 21, 2008; 🪶Caw🪶

Biplane posted:

What?

Realistically there is no continueity of experience between the you that falls asleep, and the you that wakes up, so in an absolutely pure sense, you cannot declare the one to be the other. However, from an entirely ordinary experience, the chances are 100% that the one is absolutely the other, and pretending that the alternative is the standard default position is both childish and stupid.

# ? Jun 21, 2021 19:07

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

Pookah posted:

Realistically there is no continueity of experience between the you that falls asleep, and the you that wakes up, so in an absolutely pure sense, you cannot declare the one to be the other. However, from an entirely ordinary experience, the chances are 100% that the one is absolutely the other, and pretending that the alternative is the standard default position is both childish and stupid.

Oh, yes I see. Thank you for explaining

# ? Jun 21, 2021 19:26

ewiley: Jul 9, 2003; More trash for the trash fire

Buttchocks posted:

It didn't go in, it just impacted on the surface.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 00:45

Boaz MacPhereson: Jul 11, 2006; Day 12045 Ht10hands 180lbs
No Name
No lumps No Bumps Full life Clean
Two good eyes No Busted Limbs
Piss OK Genitals intact
Multiple scars Heals fast
O NEGATIVE HI OCTANE
UNIVERSAL DONOR
Lone Road Warrior Rundown
on the Powder Lakes V8
No guzzoline No supplies
ISOLATE PSYCHOTIC
Keep muzzled...

Bobby Digital posted:

https://twitter.com/worldsstrongest/status/1406417234642169857?s=21

15kg for anyone curious. Brian Shaw is a monster.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 00:46

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

Brian Shaw's tied in first place for the number of top 3 finishes at WSM, and he's one first-place finish short of tying that record too. He's not even on the same level as the typical competitor.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 00:58

The Zombie Guy: Oct 25, 2008

History Channel did a show called The Strongest Man in History, where 4 Strongman competitors (Brian Shaw, Nick Best, Eddie Hall, & Robert Oberst) travelled to various places to take on legendary feats of strength.
There are 2 parts of the show that I really enjoyed. The first was watching the guys eat. Wherever they went, the guys would stop and eat somewhere local, and order insane amounts of food. Brian mentions in the clip that he needs about 10,000 calories a day to maintain his size.
The other neat thing, is that before attempting various feats of strength, they have the Average Guy step in to try. Average Guy is one of the camera crew, who steps up and does his best at whatever the strongmen are about to do. It gives a good perspective on how crazy strong these human bulldozers are. In Episode 7, there is a Boston Tea Party feat, where the men compete to throw 250lb crates of Tea into the harbour. Average Guy steps up, and can barely budge one of the crates. Cue the Strongmen, throwing the crates around like it Ain't No Thang. It's very impressive stuff.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 05:59

His Divine Shadow: Aug 7, 2000; I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

B33rChiller posted:

The thing that's blowing my dial right now, is the realisation that our entire perception of the world works like this. It's entirely retrospective. Any stimulus my brain receives is the result of something that happened in the past. I'm not seeing or hearing things as they happen, but shortly after. It's just the lag time is different.

Have I got a vsauce for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTOODPf-iuc

# ? Jun 22, 2021 09:07

His Divine Shadow: Aug 7, 2000; I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

logical fallacy posted:

Yeah I had that completely backwards. It would have to be incredibly precise FTL travel because as far as I can tell that would be the only thing determining what you saw looking back. Unless the ship could overshoot the target distance, decelerate instantly, turn back around, and then more precisely line up. But without that, much like a small change in direction can make a huge difference in where you end up, a small change in speed could mean you're off by centuries or more for what you want to see.

It would make a good plot to a sf book to have a ship heading towards a habitable planet many lightyears away, only to watch (through an amazing telescope) another species' civilization evolve before them. In fact, I think I've read a short story like this, only it just involved humans.

This is in fact the plot of the star trek episode "The Squire of Gothos"

# ? Jun 22, 2021 09:10

Lady Disdain: Jan 14, 2013; are you yet living?

His Divine Shadow posted:

Have I got a vsauce for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTOODPf-iuc

The fact that a man on a motorbike travels faster than my perception of reality is too neat for me to be freaked out by it.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 11:30

freeedr: Feb 21, 2005

Why is this guy making this loving face at me

# ? Jun 22, 2021 13:10

By popular demand: Jul 17, 2007; IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!

He's tired of your poo poo, you're not fooling him.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 13:13

freeedr: Feb 21, 2005

It makes me want to punch him, but also I am a dimwit so

# ? Jun 22, 2021 13:19

Beve Stuscemi: Jun 6, 2001

Michael is blessed, do not punch him

# ? Jun 22, 2021 14:02

thepopmonster: Feb 18, 2014

Snowy posted:

This is amazing thank you. Unfortunately I�m very dumb but it�s still fun to read. Maybe I�ll adjust my telescope ship to fly along with the earth�s orbit to allow a longer and steadier shot, avoiding some of the blur you mentioned.

By the time I�m able to have a massive ftl telescope I think I�ll also have the ability to say �enhance� and have it work.

Small problem: you are ~2000 light years away. This means, roughly speaking, you need to maintain an average real-space speed of >12,000 ly/day to keep up.

I thought you needed a hypermassive object and an FTL spaceship but apparently you only need a sufficienly fast FTL spaceship to go back in time? https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/can-you-really-go-back-in-time-by-breaking-the-speed-of-light/ or https://arxiv.org/pdf/1505.07489.pdf if you need the detail.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:43

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

thepopmonster posted:

I thought you needed a hypermassive object and an FTL spaceship but apparently you only need a sufficienly fast FTL spaceship to go back in time?

Traveling any faster than c equates to time travel.

# ? Jun 22, 2021 15:58

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

thepopmonster posted:

Small problem: you are ~2000 light years away. This means, roughly speaking, you need to maintain an average real-space speed of >12,000 ly/day to keep up.

I thought you needed a hypermassive object and an FTL spaceship but apparently you only need a sufficienly fast FTL spaceship to go back in time? https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/can-you-really-go-back-in-time-by-breaking-the-speed-of-light/ or https://arxiv.org/pdf/1505.07489.pdf if you need the detail.

We're practically halfway there already!

# ? Jun 22, 2021 18:05

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Has anybody seen the vsauce guy, the folding ideas guy, and anthony fantano in the same room together?

# ? Jun 22, 2021 19:41

Beve Stuscemi: Jun 6, 2001

Phanatic posted:

Traveling any faster than c equates to time travel.

Moving at all equates to time travel, it only becomes noticeable as you approach C

# ? Jun 23, 2021 02:36

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# ? May 28, 2024 23:30

Snackmar: Feb 23, 2005; I'M PROGRAMMED TO LOVE THIS CHOCOLATY CAKE... MY CIRCUITS LIGHT UP FOR THAT FUDGY ICING.

His Divine Shadow posted:

This is in fact the plot of the star trek episode "The Squire of Gothos"

ok so i just pulled up the episode because that sounds rad and all i can think is �these idiots never saw star trek before� because they�re sitting at their little bridge consoles drinking coffee as though it�s not about to go red alert and slam into their faces

# ? Jun 23, 2021 02:58

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