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RPATDO_LAMD posted:The problem is that MMOs are too massive now as the population of gamers has increased since the days of ultima & everquest. I think this is really interesting because for end game raiding in ff14, I definitely do remember specific people and have run into them multiple times through party finder. Is this just due to the raiding population being kind of small? Party finder is open across multiple servers so I don't think it's thaaat small. Xun fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 19, 2021 |
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Jun 19, 2021 17:52
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It's been said before, but group finders are great for if you want to hammer out instances til you hit max level and awful for everything else. Since your xp/hr is so much higher in those instances it makes it a meaningless to do anything else, and it kills the overworld. Yes, it is easier to do instances now and yes, it could be tedious to get groups together before, but that meant that doing instances was something you did sometimes between overworld activites and not the only activity in the game
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Jun 19, 2021 18:07
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I think matchmaking in general takes a lot of a sense of community out of games in general, not just MMOs. Like, take server browsers in FPS games. You could search on like TF2 or Battlefield or whatever to find a server that was running a map list and rule set that you liked for a pretty long time if your tastes were specific enough. That would then encourage you to not be a dickhead on that server because you'd get banned and not be able to play there any more. Naturally, if you like that server and it stays up, you're going to keep playing there and will get to know the people you play with. Old MMOs were the same way; you had a large pool of people to play with but it's always the same pool of people so if you're a dickhead word will get around and you'll be ostracized. Compare that to modern gaming where there's virtually no wait to do content any more, but you'll probably never see anyone you queue with ever again. People absolutely do make friends anyway, but it doesn't feel as common. It takes away from that sense of community you'd get from seeing a guy you grouped with a month ago in town and now he's got some piece of rare gear so you're like "hey grats on the sword dude how you been". That said I still think matchmaking is a good development overall. Xun posted:I think this is really interesting because for end game raiding in ff14, I definitely do remember specific people and have run into them multiple times through party finder. Is this just due to the raiding population being kind of small? Party finder is open across multiple servers so I don't think it's thaaat small. The number of people pugging savage on NA data centers is probably small enough to still give this sense actually. Our clear rates for high-end content are pretty low and most of the people clearing are probably in statics on top of that
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Jun 19, 2021 18:15
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Making group content the best way to level up is truly excellent for getting people to play together and emphasize the multiplayer component. But multiplayer doesn’t mean social, and dungeon finder is a decidedly anti-social experience which many people don’t like. It supplanted arguably the most social activity in WoW: finding and doing dungeons/raids with local people who you’ll probably get to know/befriend as you keep playing. It also meant role-playing was a totally valid and normal thing. That’s kind of the basis of community anywhere: doing things with the same people. So WoW became a very isolating experience for people when it used to be the exact opposite, and then reducing queue times by opening it up to like 16 servers compounded the problem. Doing dungeons with people rules, and I don’t bemoan dungeon finders. But it absolutely can easily turn a social experience into an anti-social experience, even though it’s multiplayer. And because the game is designed around efficiency and optimization, the community deteriorated (further) as the anonymity and lack of moderation meant that you can just insult and remove people who are getting in the way of your efficient leveling treadmill. There’s about a 0% chance that you’ll see the same people again when spamming dungeons unless there’s literally no one else doing them. Why not be a toxic rear end in a top hat? It’ll probably mean you get more Exp/hr, you get to pretend you’re hot poo poo, and there are absolutely zero consequences. Outside of common human decency, which was rare enough that it’s hard to get into WoW at this point. Dungeon finder (among other Blizzard things) ruined WoW’s community, but dungeon finders are not bad at all. FF14 is better for them. People want new players, people want to help each other, and there’s about zero toxicity in the duty roulette. It’s a multiplayer romp that can be social or anti-social, but is at the very least pleasant. Unless it’s Totorak/Copperbell. jokes fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jun 19, 2021 |
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Jun 19, 2021 18:23
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jokes posted:Making group content the best way to level up is truly excellent for getting people to play together and emphasize the multiplayer component. But multiplayer doesn’t mean social, and dungeon finder is a decidedly anti-social experience which many people don’t like. It supplanted arguably the most social activity in WoW: finding and doing dungeons/raids with local people who you’ll probably get to know/befriend as you keep playing. It also meant role-playing was a totally valid and normal thing. That’s kind of the basis of community anywhere: doing things with the same people. I agree with all this. I think there's also an important question relating to what "group content" means in this context. A dungeon being a fixed-length experience with a designated beginning, middle, and end seemed like a great idea (and in many ways it is), but it also resulted in people perceiving a group as nothing more than a tool to complete that experience. If your group did an especially fast/easy clear, you might run another dungeon, but you're not going to just hang out and occupy the world with your groupmates, and that's ultimately bad for the social nature and community of the game.
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Jun 19, 2021 18:35
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Hey, Carbot just released a new video relevant to to this discussion.
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Jun 19, 2021 18:37
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MH Knights posted:Hey, Carbot just released a new video relevant to to this discussion. that was A+ the conveyor belt especially.
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Jun 19, 2021 18:56
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A huge difference in the flavor of dungeons is the difference between a quest run and a regular grinding run (whether it be for xp or drops or dailies). The way a group plays out in a questing run is just totally different. When the dungeon is just a bespoke thing you're doing to complete some quests people don't feel the need to speed through it as quickly as possible. You're just there to experience the content and if it takes a little bit longer than people are much more tolerant. They also tend to be more chatty, more forgiving of mistakes, and generally just more like actual people engaging in a social activity with other people rather than glorified bots running through content as efficiently as possible. Making every dungeon run essentially a generic fraction of the means to an end basically ruins them because people aren't thinking in terms of the dungeon run, they're thinking in terms of their progress towards the goal. Wipes aren't a quirk of the run, they're a setback on your progress. Slower teammates aren't something you just put up with because hey what does it matter if you spend an extra 1/2 hour in here? They're something that makes the goal you're shooting for stretch further away from you as you imagine the long hours of terrible party members ahead of you. The best instance experience can only be gotten, IMO, when people don't feel like they're grinding them. I don't know how to align that with the standard WoW mission to get people to grind through instances endlessly though. EDIT: It actually reminds me a little about release Diablo 3 where because of the auction house the efficient way to play the game was to grind for items to sell for gold so you could buy the items you wanted with that gold. It really changed the feel of the game into a chore and focused much more on efficiency. In Diablo 2 (and later D3) you'd go on some runs and sort through your haul and maybe you had something you really wanted and maybe you didn't. If you hosed up a run or were being inefficient it didn't feel too bad because you were just getting drops and seeing what you got. Once it was "I need X gold to buy Y" you now knew the RATE at which you were earning your items and it now became about coldly grinding the most cash so you could speed up that rate and anything that got in the way was a real annoyance. Phigs fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jun 19, 2021 |
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Jun 19, 2021 19:10
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Has anyone else been following Monsters & Memories? https://monstersandmemories.com/ A few former EQ devs trying to make a stab at a classic EQ-like game. They do regular development streams and building some excitement. I think they've nailed it in their company name - these games really are niche worlds nowadays. Looking forward to seeing if they can build enough of a game to put some food on the table. e: there's also a discord here https://discord.gg/jvdKKc3CqW
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Jun 19, 2021 19:10
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Chillgamesh posted:
I haven’t really had this experience, and my schedule has made me need to switch statics every new tier. I’ve met people in statics that recur in DF sometimes but never really static to static. (At least not after cross server raiding.) That said, the era back when ff14 DIDN’T do that, when all high end content had to be organized and networked within just your server, also provides a pretty strong lesson in why MMOs switched to the cross-server model in the first place. That is, if you weren’t on the one “raiding” server in your datacenter, player quality was spotty and filling in for unexpected absences was impossible. Every non-Gilgamesh server had maybe one or two guilds that would hang together and clear the tier and the rest were struggling to keep the same set of 20 free agents in and out of their groups. I imagine the dynamic was the same in the Japan servers even, because Chocobo is still more centralized than Gilgamesh if you look at those clear rates. You do end up knowing people better at the higher levels of content, but your ability to see and do that content gets a lot worse. The decision to open things up between server groups was a matter of devs wanting more players to access their content and not leaving 9 of the 10 servers in a group as ghost towns for raiders. e: Interestingly enough, I think the way that WoW classic (and by extension EQ) did their high-end content actually mitigated this problem quite a bit. If you want a whole 40 people per raid, and most mechanics won't really single out each individual person as much, you're a lot more fine with taking on a dead-weight player, or having players in your group who don't really get along, because they can just not interact even while raiding with each other. 14 had a worse time before the push to cross-server raiding because with high-end content being limited to 8 people in a group, there's a lot of personal responsibility and expectations that go along with that, and at the time that was made even worse by certain group comps objectively being way worse than others. That said, WoW classic has also proven that raiding with a huge group but a low mechanics burden is only popular with some people, not remotely all. This is also something that I don't really hear about when discussing potential revivals of old MMOs, how high the skill floor really was comparatively back then, when any given character had way less to do, and how that interacts with the dynamics of server community and discovery that everyone is more focused on. Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 19, 2021 |
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Jun 19, 2021 19:10
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Mister Olympus posted:e: Interestingly enough, I think the way that WoW classic (and by extension EQ) did their high-end content actually mitigated this problem quite a bit. If you want a whole 40 people per raid, and most mechanics won't really single out each individual person as much, you're a lot more fine with taking on a dead-weight player, or having players in your group who don't really get along, because they can just not interact even while raiding with each other. 14 had a worse time before the push to cross-server raiding because with high-end content being limited to 8 people in a group, there's a lot of personal responsibility and expectations that go along with that, and at the time that was made even worse by certain group comps objectively being way worse than others. This is generally true in other genres too, esp with how FPS games seem to be going to going to either extreme of "lone wolf in a 100 player Battle Royale" or "5v5 objective-oriented gameplay" style games. Both seemingly in the name of eSports. I'd much rather be in a 32vs32 match where my teammates are just randos who don't necessarily have to contribute much. Same for my MMO raids. Take a little bit of pressure off, let the people who are really into it do the hard carry work (whether thats tanking, organizing the healing, getting the DPSers into position, etc) and let the rest of us smoke weed and enjoy our game. A lot of the toxicity in these games comes from the pressure applied to a single person to perform.
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Jun 19, 2021 19:43
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cmdrk posted:Has anyone else been following Monsters & Memories? This is really cool and looks like it has a far higher chance of actually coming out compared to Pantheon (which is pretty much dead at this point). It's still years away though, but will be following its progress.
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Jun 19, 2021 19:46
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Even after dungeon finder was introduced, I still mostly played with people I knew or had gotten to know in game. Dungeon finder was great for filling in the one or two extra players we needed, and if they were nice, I’d add them to my friends list. In my experience, it wasn’t until dungeons became part of the daily treadmill that the sense of community and socialization started breaking down. Replacing unique and often interesting quests with a requirement to repeat the same dungeon endlessly for months really sucked all the fun out, and trained us to focus on being as efficient as possible.
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Jun 19, 2021 19:47
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Endorph posted:theres literally no difference between dungeon finder and having to actually look for groups except time wasted spamming zone chat and how long you're willing to put up with being called slurs Endorph posted:i playd vanilla wow, sure sometimes you met someone cool, but nine times out of 10 it was just 'hey wanna party up' 'sure' and then complete silence during the run except minor mechanical things or occasional jokes, both of which also happen in dungeon finder. you'd add people to your friends list because it might expediate finding a group in the future, not because you were forming critical social bonds. there's exceptions, sure, but people also make friends in dungeon finder sometimes. I agree, and honestly I think the answer to both is making a better dungeon finder with more options for actually finding players like you who you might actually chat with. But they're not really trying to develop in that direction. IMO if you're going to make an MMO make it actually based on the 'massively' part and engage in social features. But all these games like WoW, Destiny, they're basically single player RPGs where other people are running around. They don't actually facilitate you meeting those few 'cool' people that you could be playing with. And then you end up with players going outside of the game, creating groups using reddit or other websites, because the game doesn't really help you do that.
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Jun 19, 2021 20:17
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Mister Olympus posted:e: Interestingly enough, I think the way that WoW classic (and by extension EQ) did their high-end content actually mitigated this problem quite a bit. If you want a whole 40 people per raid, and most mechanics won't really single out each individual person as much, you're a lot more fine with taking on a dead-weight player, or having players in your group who don't really get along, because they can just not interact even while raiding with each other. 14 had a worse time before the push to cross-server raiding because with high-end content being limited to 8 people in a group, there's a lot of personal responsibility and expectations that go along with that, and at the time that was made even worse by certain group comps objectively being way worse than others. Yeah, but while true actually organizing 40-person raids is crazy. I'm glad I had the experience earlier in life, but I don't think I could ever do that again. cmdrk posted:This is generally true in other genres too, esp with how FPS games seem to be going to going to either extreme of "lone wolf in a 100 player Battle Royale" or "5v5 objective-oriented gameplay" style games. Both seemingly in the name of eSports. I'd much rather be in a 32vs32 match where my teammates are just randos who don't necessarily have to contribute much. Same for my MMO raids. Take a little bit of pressure off, let the people who are really into it do the hard carry work (whether thats tanking, organizing the healing, getting the DPSers into position, etc) and let the rest of us smoke weed and enjoy our game. A lot of the toxicity in these games comes from the pressure applied to a single person to perform. Yeah, this is why battlefield is so much more casual than counter-strike, and why I usually play more of the former.
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Jun 19, 2021 20:20
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Would you rather have dungeon finders to fill groups or being on a low population server or a dead hour and spending 30-60 minutes spamming "LF MORE CLASSES FOR DUNGEON NEED 3 MORE" until eventually some in the group get bored or have to leave?
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Jun 19, 2021 20:45
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I like modern MMOs.
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Jun 19, 2021 20:59
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No one does older group content in LotRO and it’s a bummer. It technically has a dungeon finder but no one uses it and it’s not incentivized. Having some kind of FFIV roulette would be awesome.
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Jun 19, 2021 23:49
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Would you rather have dungeon finders to fill groups or being on a low population server or a dead hour and spending 30-60 minutes spamming "LF MORE CLASSES FOR DUNGEON NEED 3 MORE" until eventually some in the group get bored or have to leave? Unironically the last one so long as content is not gated behind low level dungeons. Without the social aspect of gathering a party instances are just based around mechanics and most modern mmo instances are designed to be won the first time through with no deaths and requiring no chat, so they are absurdly easy and therefore dull. It's like gathering a group of friends for a pub crawl vs just going and getting plastered by yourself in a bar with four other patrons. Yeah the first one is a pain to get together and a lot of times it just falls through, but the latter is just sad.
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Jun 20, 2021 00:15
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Phigs posted:A huge difference in the flavor of dungeons is the difference between a quest run and a regular grinding run (whether it be for xp or drops or dailies). The way a group plays out in a questing run is just totally different. When the dungeon is just a bespoke thing you're doing to complete some quests people don't feel the need to speed through it as quickly as possible. You're just there to experience the content and if it takes a little bit longer than people are much more tolerant. They also tend to be more chatty, more forgiving of mistakes, and generally just more like actual people engaging in a social activity with other people rather than glorified bots running through content as efficiently as possible. The first great error in the wow reboot was before the game even released: the decision to bundle the subs with retail That alone boated the populations to comical levels, while smearing those who love to play adventure games more like you describe above throughout well over a dozen servers. Today you can see the result: the minmax racing content locusts moved on to tbc, leaving behind those players on hollowed out husks of servers. Had they moved EVERYONE to tbc, while creating a fresh vanilla set of servers, you would have seen a very healthy population of players who actually genuinely love vanilla, while the gogogogogogogohohoh players would have been removed from the bloat. Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jun 20, 2021 |
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Jun 20, 2021 00:15
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Endorph posted:theres literally no difference between dungeon finder and having to actually look for groups except time wasted spamming zone chat and how long you're willing to put up with being called slurs Endorph posted:i playd vanilla wow, sure sometimes you met someone cool, but nine times out of 10 it was just 'hey wanna party up' 'sure' and then complete silence during the run except minor mechanical things or occasional jokes, both of which also happen in dungeon finder. you'd add people to your friends list because it might expediate finding a group in the future, not because you were forming critical social bonds. there's exceptions, sure, but people also make friends in dungeon finder sometimes. yeah, same i played swtor at launch and then later after they added the group finder and the only difference was not having to sit like a dumbass on fleet shouting into space for a group and instead push a button that does that for you 3000 times quicker. i guess if you're a dps you can affect the queue time some with shouting, but lol. and with how big the servers were, i never played with the same random people twice either way. the only times i regularly did poo poo with same people often were private RO servers with ~300 online and grinding high end content in ff14
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Jun 20, 2021 01:02
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I think there should be some incentives to make people want to run lower level content and generally address the top heavyness as the game gets older. I loved the sidekick system that City of Heroes did, more games should do that. Boost the lower level player, but make them still play with a limited kit. Works best in games where your kit grows in diversity but not usually in straight power. My dreams.txt MMO would have a system to allow very powerful players start over at level 1 while keeping some benefits for doing so. Either allowing them to keep their gear, or get some permanent stat boost, or to allow a class/race change, etc. I think in MUDs this was called a "remort", i.e., to become mortal again. I'd also love to see level-locked drops or dungeons that can only be raided by relatively low level characters. I think people will follow incentives, if the world mechanics are setup right. E.g., experience boosters on underutilized zones that draw people away from the busy spots, or closing down zones that aren't being used. It would need some loresmithing in an Orcs & Elves setting, but Planetside 2 for example has done this effectively: Continents are opened/closed depending on how many players are online, including a special small continent that only comes online during the lowest population times. I think there's a lot more juice to squeeze out of static servers, in a way that doesn't ruin the sense of community that a lot of people felt during early MMOs. I also think there needs to be a bit more RP in the MMORPG, and that means stuff like GMs actually having the mandate, manpower and tools to do game mastering instead of nannying.
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Jun 20, 2021 01:28
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There are a lot of MMOs where people basically "start over from level 1" by rolling a new alt to play a new class, with varying levels of account-wide shared bank space shared skill trees or whatever. In games with job-change systems like FFXIV or PSO2 you can even do it on the same character, although in that case you can only "start over" as many times as you have new classes to play.
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Jun 20, 2021 01:46
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cmdrk posted:I think there should be some incentives to make people want to run lower level content and generally address the top heavyness as the game gets older. DDO does reincarnation. To fill out your reincarnate meter is a lot of lives though.
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Jun 20, 2021 01:50
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cmdrk posted:Has anyone else been following Monsters & Memories? I'm tired of these "it's like EQ but not really because we're going to change all these mechanics and add new ones and we have no idea if it'll feel the same in the end" projects. Not comforting that the main guy on this was the lead designer on EQ for arguably its worst string of expansions. I just want EQ with a new world and a more modern engine. I don't want a totally new take on the classic genre or whatever this and Pantheon are doing.
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Jun 20, 2021 02:25
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Chillgamesh posted:I think matchmaking in general takes a lot of a sense of community out of games in general, not just MMOs. Like, take server browsers in FPS games. You could search on like TF2 or Battlefield or whatever to find a server that was running a map list and rule set that you liked for a pretty long time if your tastes were specific enough. That would then encourage you to not be a dickhead on that server because you'd get banned and not be able to play there any more. Naturally, if you like that server and it stays up, you're going to keep playing there and will get to know the people you play with. Old MMOs were the same way; you had a large pool of people to play with but it's always the same pool of people so if you're a dickhead word will get around and you'll be ostracized. Yeah, I saw this playing Counter-Strike in the late 90s and early 2000s. Back then the game was a bunch of individual communities centered around privately operates servers, which due to people seeking low pings usually caused the communities to be loosely grouped geographically too. You did have a fair bit of trash talking and the occasional poo poo head getting racist, but the insane racist rants that FPS games are notorious for now were pretty rare. People that did that poo poo rapidly got banned and if they did it enough word would get around via IRC, forums etc and theyd be stuck playing with the absolute dregs of FPS society. Big AAA titles like COD making the to matchmaking along with developers having zero interest in moderating what went on in their games lead to some pretty drastic changes in the FPS community. Suddenly all those folks who had been relegated to the dregs were back and could act out with zero repercussions. Matchmaking definitely has its place as a way to get quick groups without the need to organize or wait, but the way it so often is run with very little oversight has not been a very good thing.
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Jun 20, 2021 03:02
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Sachant posted:I'm tired of these "it's like EQ but not really because we're going to change all these mechanics and add new ones and we have no idea if it'll feel the same in the end" projects. Not comforting that the main guy on this was the lead designer on EQ for arguably its worst string of expansions. I just want EQ with a new world and a more modern engine. I don't want a totally new take on the classic genre or whatever this and Pantheon are doing. Yeah, that's the worry right? We'll just tweak this one little thing................ Everyone wants to make their mark, I guess. And saying "it'll be like EQ, guys." helps drive the initial hype and excitement. And to their credit, it probably is. The stuff they've shown in the M&M streams (countdown til Mars, Inc. lawsuit) is very much cribbed from the general Freeport / desert of Ro vibe, complete with "a fire beetle" capsule placeholder mobs. At the same time, they're collecting a lot of ideas from the community that very much have the potential to drive things away from the Vision. That said, I guess EQ-like means something a little different to everyone. IMO, I think EQ-like games are truly niche and have very little chance of strong commercial success. So to try to keep their heads above water, they have a small team. Fine. But to build content at the rate players expect with a small team? I think they almost necessarily need to be open source in some way to live a long life, or exceptionally liberal in the tools they give to players for creation and GMing their own worlds. Or development is glacial.. see Project Gorgon. The way to build the next EQ, in my mind, is to build the framework for people to build their own version of The Vision, instead of relying on emu communities to enable the game to shamble on, frozen in time and zombielike for 20 years. I want to be a part of a community in something that ends up like a heavy roleplay Spacestation 13 server or NWN Player World. How do you make money from that? Beats me.
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Jun 20, 2021 03:26
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cmdrk posted:The way to build the next EQ, in my mind, is to build the framework for people to build their own version of The Vision, instead of relying on emu communities to enable the game to shamble on, frozen in time and zombielike for 20 years. I want to be a part of a community in something that ends up like a heavy roleplay Spacestation 13 server or NWN Player World. How do you make money from that? Beats me. I don't think you really do, but the flipside is that the cost of doing it is constantly getting cheaper. SS13 servers and P99 and the like run off of donations, and hosting costs always go down. Also regarding M&M (lol), the last stream of theirs I watched was the lead guy again, and he talked about how the big change they wanted to make from the formula was to add time-locked seasonal/expiring content like Destiny to keep people coming back to the game each month. I haven't paid much attention to them since.
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Jun 20, 2021 03:48
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CuddleCryptid posted:Unironically the last one so long as content is not gated behind low level dungeons. Your analogy doesn’t make sense. You’re not gathering a group of friends if you’re spamming chat with a LF more players., you’re yelling on the side of the street at randoms walking by so you can enter.
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Jun 20, 2021 06:17
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If it's an optional fun experience you're gathering a group of friends to play together. If it's a mandatory progression dungeon you're just yelling at the side of the street until enough icons show up in your party menu for you to go collect your xp and leveling gear (and there should just be a party finder or matchmaking system instead)
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Jun 20, 2021 06:26
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i'm seeing fuckloads of new players (you can tell they're new players because they get their own cute sprout icon) in FFXIV. the starting towns are absolutely hopping, way more than when i started 8 months ago. this ongoing wow v FFXIV seems to be drawing a ton of new interest to the game.
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Jun 20, 2021 09:26
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One might be me! I try a few times a year to really get in to FFXIV. I can sense that it’s a game I potentially could main, but I just can’t get anything to hook me before something else grabs my attention 
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Jun 20, 2021 10:49
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it's a real slow burn. best advice is really to treat it like a book and do it in chill-out mode until the hype sneaks up on you
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Jun 20, 2021 10:55
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Mister Olympus posted:it's a real slow burn. best advice is really to treat it like a book and do it in chill-out mode until the hype sneaks up on you I really like the world/story parts. I’m good at bringing my own fun to stuff like that. It’s more that the class/combat mechanics start off poorly and I can’t imagine them ever really getting much better. So I keep interest for as long as my enjoyment of the world stays ahead of how much I dislike the gameplay.
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Jun 20, 2021 11:14
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There is no such thing as friendship in MMOs. There is only your role and how good you are at it. Except goons. You guys have been the only consistent group over the years who don't care about bad players.
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Jun 20, 2021 12:26
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Cus we're all bad players.
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Jun 20, 2021 12:32
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Anno posted:I really like the world/story parts. I’m good at bringing my own fun to stuff like that. It’s more that the class/combat mechanics start off poorly and I can’t imagine them ever really getting much better. So I keep interest for as long as my enjoyment of the world stays ahead of how much I dislike the gameplay. Yeah unfortunately the gameplay mechanics take a looong time to come online. FWIW it does get interesting and difficult, to the point that I don't even want to PUG some extreme trials because so many people are unable to do the mechanics.
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Jun 20, 2021 13:32
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Xun posted:Yeah unfortunately the gameplay mechanics take a looong time to come online. FWIW it does get interesting and difficult, to the point that I don't even want to PUG some extreme trials because so many people are unable to do the mechanics. I just don’t think the game had a class that I can really get invested in. I like playing utility/buffing/debuffing type classes, which I think just don’t exist in MMOs anymore. I like tanking, too, but I’m really just over running the current conception of instances. Anno fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jun 20, 2021 |
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Jun 20, 2021 13:52
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Zam Wesell posted:Cus we're all bad players.
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Jun 20, 2021 14:29
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Would you rather have dungeon finders to fill groups or being on a low population server or a dead hour and spending 30-60 minutes spamming "LF MORE CLASSES FOR DUNGEON NEED 3 MORE" until eventually some in the group get bored or have to leave? I've always wondered what would have happened with WoW if Blizzard merged servers instead of creating the group finder tool + CRZ. During it's peak, they had over a hundred servers, and plenty of them were low population. They could have easily merged 2 or 3 low population servers into a large server that wouldn't have required dungeon finder. Too much work for the indie company, I guess. They could have also done a better job with new players picking a server. Maybe ask players what they were looking for so they could be sent to servers that fit better with their play style (chill experience, hardcore raiding, social aspect, hardcore PvP, etc.)
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Jun 20, 2021 14:31
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