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Zaroff posted:The Enterprise wasn’t a great ship "For five hundred years every ship that has borne the name of the Enterprise has become a legend. This one is no different." -Admiral Nakamura
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Jun 20, 2021 18:26
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https://twitter.com/NoContextTrek/status/1406661737915559944?s=20
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Jun 20, 2021 18:32
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think it's easier to imagine TOS as a very parallel timeline; in other words, some but not all of the events of TOS were part of TNG's past. Yeah, you have to handwave at least a bit or else come up with a reason why people temporarily forgot that women can actually captain starships. The captain of the Saratoga in the fourth movie is a black lady, I wonder if the fans got in a kerfuffle about that. SJWs ruining the franchise since 1986.
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Jun 20, 2021 18:42
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I think even at the time they were fanoning that poo poo away because the fandom thought it was ridiculous. Like that "Starship" was a particular super-elite class which only had the Connies and had not until that point had  in charge of them, but that female officers were represented in command in all the things below that.
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Jun 20, 2021 18:53
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HopperUK posted:Yeah, you have to handwave at least a bit or else come up with a reason why people temporarily forgot that women can actually captain starships. I don't remember and maybe i was too young anyone caring that a gal was in a film. Of course in the 1980s if it was pg13 or higher you most likely saw at least 2 women topless randomly.
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Jun 20, 2021 18:58
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Jun 20, 2021 19:42
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Teenaged-O'Neil in SG1 is hands down the best "teenager plays a fully grown man" i've ever seen, but the TNG one is pretty drat great. Especially how perfectly cracking his voice is.
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Jun 20, 2021 19:52
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Brawnfire posted:I'm also pretty sure he never expressed sexual interest in her Kira is also, what, 20 to 30 years his junior and he wanted to bang her after her mom got too old for him/died. That's sufficiently Trumpy, isn't it?
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Jun 20, 2021 19:56
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nine-gear crow posted:Kira is also, what, 20 to 30 years his junior and he wanted to bang her after her mom got too old for him/died. That's sufficiently Trumpy, isn't it? They should have gone with a "she's the daughter I never had", kind of thing, especially after Kira already had that "half-cardassian" scare and with him banging her mom.
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Jun 20, 2021 20:28
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Teenaged-O'Neil in SG1 is hands down the best "teenager plays a fully grown man" i've ever seen, but the TNG one is pretty drat great. Especially how perfectly cracking his voice is. Rascals is kind of a bad episode, but the kid casting for Stewart and Whoopi was spot-on.
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Jun 20, 2021 22:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Rascals is kind of a bad episode, but the kid casting for Stewart and Whoopi was spot-on. They already knew they had a good thing going with David Tristan Birkin (young Picard), because he had already played Picard's nephew René in Family two years prior.
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Jun 20, 2021 22:35
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Timby posted:They already knew they had a good thing going with David Tristan Birkin (young Picard), because he had already played Picard's nephew René in Family two years prior.  I guess that bowl cut in Family really threw me off, because I never realized this
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Jun 20, 2021 22:37
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nine-gear crow posted:Kirk, Picard, Janeway and Sisko have all attacked and dethroned god at least one during their careers. name names kirk - appolo picard - the devil but sisko and janeway i need some help on
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Jun 20, 2021 23:57
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Sisko had Q and the Pah-Wraiths for sure.
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Jun 21, 2021 00:09
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Rascals is kind of a bad episode, but the kid casting for Stewart and Whoopi was spot-on. Timby posted:They already knew they had a good thing going with David Tristan Birkin (young Picard), because he had already played Picard's nephew René in Family two years prior. not only that, Isis J. Jones played a young Whoopi earlier that year in Sister Act.
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Jun 21, 2021 00:44
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Janeway killed the manifestation of fear in that ice clown episode Also helped a Q kill himself
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Jun 21, 2021 00:44
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In a series with better character development, Janeway would have slowly gone insane and become the villain of the series. Hell, then you could give Chakotay something to do and have him become the bastion of Starfleet ideals in the Delta Quadrant, shedding his Maquis past.
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Jun 21, 2021 00:59
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HD DAD posted:In a series with better character development, Janeway would have slowly gone insane and become the villain of the series. Hell, then you could give Chakotay something to do and have him become the bastion of Starfleet ideals in the Delta Quadrant, shedding his Maquis past. That's a really good idea, actually. Imagine an alternate universe Voyager where the burden of stranding her crew in the delta quadrant gradually turns Janeway into a Helena Cain clone. I would gladly watch a Voyager like that; I think Mulgrew would have excelled in a 'darker Janeway' role.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:04
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No Luck Needed posted:name names Kirk also smoked God in Final Frontier. And he took out several computers which were objects of worship
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Jun 21, 2021 01:12
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Now that I think about it, I find it really interesting that Roddenberry was an atheist (I think?) and yet Star Trek is full of gods, demigods and god-like creatures: Gary Mitchell, Trelane, Organians, the brains of Triskelion, the beings of Return To Tomorrow, M-5, Kirok, Q, Riker (briefly a Q), Ardra (Devil's Due), the Bajoran Prophets, the Sha-Ka-Ree god....
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Jun 21, 2021 01:22
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Now that I think about it, I find it really interesting that Roddenberry was an atheist (I think?) and yet Star Trek is full of gods, demigods and god-like creatures: Gary Mitchell, Trelane, Organians, the brains of Triskelion, the beings of Return To Tomorrow, M-5, Kirok, Q, Riker (briefly a Q), Ardra (Devil's Due), the Bajoran Prophets, the Sha-Ka-Ree god.... Yeah but they're all 'Oh they look like gods but it turns out they're not'.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:23
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idk Apollo seemed authentic to me. Funny how the temple gave him powers. Maybe he and the gang had a flop house on Mt Olympus?
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Jun 21, 2021 01:29
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It's kinda the whole thing that Stargate got built around where every god is actually some kind of space alien malicious or otherwise, but eventually you meet omnipotent beings against which you start wondering what actually qualifies as a god because they sure seem to meet the definition. Which is a really weird kind of territory theologically. Not pictured: His offscreen wife and kids that left him for acknowledging her. Also relevant: 
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Jun 21, 2021 01:39
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MikeJF posted:Yeah but they're all 'Oh they look like gods but it turns out they're not'. The one exception that I can think of is Bread and Circuses, where the "son" god turns out to be an alien form of Jesus Christ. I think it's a really weird angle for that episode to take, on a writing and a theological level.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:53
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No Luck Needed posted:name names Janeway also rolled the Borg Queen, several times in fact, and she is pretty drat close to being a physical god in terms of the power she wields to reshape existence to her whims via the Collective.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:00
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That's one of the things I like about the Prophets, to Starfleet they just get filed away under "extradimensional godlike beings" somewhere between Q and the Organians but the Bajorans just keep on believing in them, hell they've even got proof they exist, can see the future, and interfere in mortal affairs
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Jun 21, 2021 02:07
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Now that I think about it, I find it really interesting that Roddenberry was an atheist (I think?) and yet Star Trek is full of gods, demigods and god-like creatures: Gary Mitchell, Trelane, Organians, the brains of Triskelion, the beings of Return To Tomorrow, M-5, Kirok, Q, Riker (briefly a Q), Ardra (Devil's Due), the Bajoran Prophets, the Sha-Ka-Ree god.... Two of the first three episodes of Star Trek ever aired are about a human god entering the ship. The third is about a bisexual predatory superbeing entering the ship
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Jun 21, 2021 02:10
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StashAugustine posted:That's one of the things I like about the Prophets, to Starfleet they just get filed away under "extradimensional godlike beings" somewhere between Q and the Organians but the Bajorans just keep on believing in them, hell they've even got proof they exist, can see the future, and interfere in mortal affairs Yeah I like that the Federation keeps attempting to describe them in the sciencey terms they understand and the Bajorans are just like, "yes, correct, and what you are describing is a god, deal with it"
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Jun 21, 2021 02:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Rascals is kind of a bad episode, but the kid casting for Stewart and Whoopi was spot-on. Rascals could have worked better if they'd leaned into it as a comedy episode, but late-TNG has a huge warp nacelle up its own rear end.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:19
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StashAugustine posted:That's one of the things I like about the Prophets, to Starfleet they just get filed away under "extradimensional godlike beings" somewhere between Q and the Organians but the Bajorans just keep on believing in them, hell they've even got proof they exist, can see the future, and interfere in mortal affairs The Sisko had to basically twist their arms on that last part  HD DAD posted:In a series with better character development, Janeway would have slowly gone insane and become the villain of the series. Hell, then you could give Chakotay something to do and have him become the bastion of Starfleet ideals in the Delta Quadrant, shedding his Maquis past. While good I don't think it would have been good at the time to prove Turnabout Intruder right. Although admittedly Mulgrew would've easily made an evil/crazy Janeway work.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBrqWVEa7a4
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Jun 21, 2021 02:26
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Angry_Ed posted:While good I don't think it would have been good at the time to prove Turnabout Intruder right. Although admittedly Mulgrew would've easily made an evil/crazy Janeway work. I still can't believe that TOS ends on an episode whose moral is basically "Women should not be in command because they're all insane." 
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Jun 21, 2021 02:38
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:The one exception that I can think of is Bread and Circuses, where the "son" god turns out to be an alien form of Jesus Christ. I think it's a really weird angle for that episode to take, on a writing and a theological level. Gene Coon was much more spiritual and in tune with religions beyond bog-standard Christianity, and that's why the episode turned out that way. Coon did some pretty substantial rewrites on Roddenberry's original draft.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:45
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The last episode of TOS is All Our Yesterdays  Timby posted:Gene Coon was much more spiritual and in tune with religions beyond bog-standard Christianity, and that's why the episode turned out that way. Coon did some pretty substantial rewrites on Roddenberry's original draft. Huh. I didn't know that. Not surprised about the rewrites, though, if stuff like Omega Glory is the result of Roddenberry writing an episode.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:48
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Angry_Ed posted:While good I don't think it would have been good at the time to prove Turnabout Intruder right. Although admittedly Mulgrew would've easily made an evil/crazy Janeway work. I love Psycho Janeway, but it wouldn't work if it was canon. Unless they leaned all the way into it and she was successful in her conquest of the Beta quadrant after giving Shinzon the Scimitar.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:34
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nine-gear crow posted:I still can't believe that TOS ends on an episode whose moral is basically "Women should not be in command because they're all insane." I may be misremembering because I probably watched that one once 30 years ago, but the moral was "this woman is insane." Janice goes about it the wrong way but she is trying to right a wrong and get a chance to command. It was hamhanded, but the point of the episode wasn't to uphold 20th century patriarchal standards and advocate women staying in the kitchen. TOS isn't progressive by today's standards but it was for the time and they were trying to get positive messages across. They were trying to say "sexism is bad," but they went about it in a really dumb fashion, starting with the idea that 300 years from now women couldn't rise high in a fleet shown since S1E1 as being mixed gender (and race, with hispanic and black flag officers). There was probably a more subtle way to have a morality tale against sexism. OTOH, modern tv can be just as bad. Doctor Who had an episode about Rosa Parks which postulated that in an alien filled Year 8000, there are still white racist humans who hate brown people enough to want to go back in time and keep them down. Like the idea that women couldn't rise above rank of Commander in Starfleet, it stretches credulity while trying to talk about a serious modern issue.
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Jun 21, 2021 05:04
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Astroman posted:OTOH, modern tv can be just as bad. Doctor Who had an episode about Rosa Parks which postulated that in an alien filled Year 8000, there are still white racist humans who hate brown people enough to want to go back in time and keep them down. Like the idea that women couldn't rise above rank of Commander in Starfleet, it stretches credulity while trying to talk about a serious modern issue. lol, every time I hear about NuWho it makes me even more glad I stopped watching years ago
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Jun 21, 2021 05:10
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Astroman posted:I may be misremembering because I probably watched that one once 30 years ago, but the moral was "this woman is insane." Janice goes about it the wrong way but she is trying to right a wrong and get a chance to command. I'm probably letting the SF Debris review of Turnabout Intruder colour my impressions of it as an episode, because Chuck just went double barrels on the sexism elements of it, those intended in the script and accidentally expressed all the same.
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Jun 21, 2021 05:39
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https://twitter.com/realGulDukat/status/1406833873422630917?s=20
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Jun 21, 2021 05:43
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I saw a really great piece of fanart the other day that was a family portrait with Sarek, Amanda, Sybok, Spock and Michael and it was basically just "Before things went to poo poo..." Found it: https://twitter.com/jimbleskirk/status/1400773082420285443 nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 05:50
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