(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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Ferrinus posted:and apparently what saved you is the revelation that evans himself said a bad word 17 years ago? heady stuff I asked them to show me my permaban thread but unfortunately it hasn't happened. Mods?
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Jun 20, 2021 02:32
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| # ? May 26, 2024 00:25 |
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I had a dream that I was at a Juneteenth barbecue with Michael Parenti and Noam Chomsky and everyone was egging them on to start fighting. melatonin gives me weird dreams
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Jun 20, 2021 03:16
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what’s the ECP and why can’t communists debunk it (been seeing a lot of memes lately)
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Jun 20, 2021 21:43
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indigi posted:what’s the ECP and why can’t communists debunk it (been seeing a lot of memes lately) economic calculation problem: bullshit von mises cooked up to say command economies are inefficient
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Jun 20, 2021 22:34
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the socialists won the calculation debates i'm pretty sure, even on mises' own terms
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Jun 20, 2021 22:39
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ECP is the idea that only market systems can account for subjective values rationally, even though "subjective" values are inherently irrational and impossible to plan for. Which is why capitalist firms seek to create new demands instead of trying to figure out what people actually want right now.
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Jun 20, 2021 22:39
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thanks for the wisdom 🙏
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Jun 20, 2021 22:47
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Jun 20, 2021 22:58
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Yeah the calculation debate was won by the socialists because even when an economy is reduced to the circulation of goods for a monetary equivalent, which is what the Austrian and Neoclassical schools try to present as the totality of it all, then systems which abolish private property into whatever form of collective ownership the socialist was arguing for and even when the monetary equivalent was replaced with a socialist alternative like exchange in kind then these 'market' mechanisms operate and clear in much the same way as the capitalist theorists said money and prices were required for. It's moot really except for the argument about how planning national or global economies is supposedly beyond reasonable or possible calculation and so separate warring capitalism is the only real choice, and we have both theoretical and real world demonstrations about just how viable it is now. namesake has issued a correction as of 23:58 on Jun 20, 2021 |
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Jun 20, 2021 23:52
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I just bought a hole saw but forgot to buy a mandrel for it. that kind of inefficiency can only occur under a market economy. in a planned economy the hole saw would've come with an appropriate mandrel
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Jun 20, 2021 23:58
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https://twitter.com/XSovietNews/status/1406919833279733760?s=19
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Jun 21, 2021 11:44
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lmfao the pivot to ~good old times~ not working out so well for putin i see also big lol @ replies to that
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Jun 21, 2021 11:48
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Truga posted:lmfao the pivot to ~good old times~ not working out so well for putin i see Putin's popularity from staunching the bleeding of shock doctrine could only last for so long. It's not enough for people to be nostalgic about Stalinism as simply a time when "Russia was powerful," people are also hungry for social transformation - and Lenin & Stalin as leaders of communism helped completely reform Russian society from agrarianism to a world leading industrial power. Maybe Russians don't necessarily want a return to communism, but they are starting to want big changes.
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Jun 21, 2021 12:00
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it's probably hard to keep austerity (if you can call the Russian program that, it's more like straight up robbery) popular in a country where you were at one point literally the nexus of socialist revolution. even if people remember the bad old days of the 70s and 80s, at a certain point anything is probably better than dying at 40 from alcoholism
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Jun 22, 2021 07:40
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no i agree it's just that in recent years putin has also been trying to go "wow look at how cool we used to be  " and oops, turns out used to is actually the correct word and it's funny because putin is actively helping the sentiment
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Jun 22, 2021 08:25
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Man I was reading the last of the ban brown Moses thread after it was closed and someone mentioned bellingcat basically ignoring Yemen before someone posted a low effort link to the bellingcat Yemen page. Like yeah, they started covering it in, it appears, late 2019. Maybe they had articles from earlier but they all appear dated to September or later. The Saudis had already basically lost on the ground, the UAE and Saudi local factions were infighting, and it had gotten so bad that international news was covering it. The Syrian war was already clearly over at that point, so there's not as much of a target there anymore. They do mention that the Saudi coalition imposed a blockade but don't write much about it, including the fact that the usa helped the Saudis starve the north Yemeni. (maybe it's there but I couldn't find it on their page)
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Jun 22, 2021 09:04
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Man I was reading the last of the ban brown Moses thread after it was closed and someone mentioned bellingcat basically ignoring Yemen before someone posted a low effort link to the bellingcat Yemen page. Brown Moses himself big upped their Yemen project as part of the good American critical work they were doing on these forums.
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Jun 22, 2021 09:21
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He should big up a ride to Yemen and see it first hand. And also not pack any MREs for himself.
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Jun 22, 2021 09:32
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https://twitter.com/RachelCleves/status/1405533036779741192
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Jun 22, 2021 15:06
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Larry Parrish posted:He should big up a ride to Yemen and see it first hand. And also not pack any MREs for himself. he should eat nothing but fish soup
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Jun 22, 2021 16:21
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I'm reading October by China Mieville who is probably a fan of Trotsky. Apparently the workers fought to abolish tipping during the February Revolution. lol that Trotsky thought he could inspire the same in the U.S. by being an rear end in a top hat
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Jun 22, 2021 17:10
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what a way to inspire the working class
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Jun 22, 2021 17:26
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Yossarian-22 posted:I'm reading October by China Mieville who is probably a fan of Trotsky. Apparently the workers fought to abolish tipping during the February Revolution. lol that Trotsky thought he could inspire the same in the U.S. by being an rear end in a top hat I don't know a lot about Trotsky, but being an rear end in a top hat as a revolutionary act sounds like a lot of Trotzkyites you tend to run across.
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Jun 22, 2021 17:35
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Raskolnikov38 posted:economic calculation problem: bullshit von mises cooked up to say command economies are inefficient to add on further, this has a lot to do with the marginalists coming up with elasticity, the cornerstone of neoclassical theory. Turns out that this was an amazing tool to actually plan for demand and was readily employed in other schools of economic thought more interested in changing things rather than observing this is where the Austrian school falls into a very "problematic" place, but one that is very, very useful for some: if planning and organization beat the market even using neoclassical premises and frameworks, then the Austrian school has to discredit neoclassical thinking to serve its purpose. This is where a lot of Hayek's charge against aggregation comes from, and especially why he directs himself against Keynes rather than their contemporary Kalecki: the latter was a Marxist economist who was way more competent (and waaaaay ahead on maths) than the former and, being a Marxist, was interested on getting to the solving point of the matter instead of going around in circles (like Keynes). Kalecki solved and proved (formally, when able) for many of the socialist economic propositions to the detriment of the austrians and neoclassical thinkers, and pretty much owned Hayek whenever possible (Hell, wanna know a well-kept open secret of the field? mofo came up with the profit equation in macroeconomics, which he bases from karl loving marx himself) Michal Kalecki, Theory of Economic Dynamics (1965) posted:It is indeed paradoxical that, while the apologists of capitalism usually consider the 'price mechanism' to be the great advantage of the capitalist system, price flexibility proves to be a characteristic feature of the socialist economy.
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Jun 22, 2021 17:44
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genericnick posted:I don't know a lot about Trotsky, but being an rear end in a top hat as a revolutionary act sounds like a lot of Trotzkyites you tend to run across. Some Trotskyist parties take this to an extra level in order to abolish the patriarchy!
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Jun 22, 2021 17:45
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Yossarian-22 posted:I'm reading October by China Mieville who is probably a fan of Trotsky. Apparently the workers fought to abolish tipping during the February Revolution. lol that Trotsky thought he could inspire the same in the U.S. by being an rear end in a top hat Please don't tell me Mieville is a trot he's a big part of why I'm any kind of leftist today lol Perdido Street Station was like a silver bullet to my chud brain when I was younger
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Jun 22, 2021 17:47
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Deified Data posted:Please don't tell me Mieville is a trot he's a big part of why I'm any kind of leftist today lol I have no idea and I'd say there are good Trots who mostly just adhere to the line because of believing in internationalism above all else which I'm sympathetic to. Mieville seems to think Trotsky was brilliant but also super abrasive and hard to get along with from my reading of October so far
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Jun 22, 2021 17:49
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Putin's popularity from staunching the bleeding of shock doctrine could only last for so long. It's not enough for people to be nostalgic about Stalinism as simply a time when "Russia was powerful," people are also hungry for social transformation - and Lenin & Stalin as leaders of communism helped completely reform Russian society from agrarianism to a world leading industrial power. Maybe Russians don't necessarily want a return to communism, but they are starting to want big changes. I met a woman from Novosibirsk, little older than me (30-something by now), who came here to Brazil because of her boyfriend, an acquaintance. She said that the bad thing for younger Russians was that they all knew how things were better in their living memory through parents and grandparents. Putin had their respect from stabilizing things from total shitshow levels, but it was always a matter of time before the younger generations, listening to how easy it was to get employment and healthcare and education in comparison from their family, would be drawn to revolutionary sentiments
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Jun 22, 2021 17:57
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dead gay comedy forums posted:to add on further, this has a lot to do with the marginalists coming up with elasticity, the cornerstone of neoclassical theory. Turns out that this was an amazing tool to actually plan for demand and was readily employed in other schools of economic thought more interested in changing things rather than observing I really need to read more Kalecki. I've only read his Political Aspects of Full Employment and that was pretty concise and topical.
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Jun 22, 2021 17:58
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Deified Data posted:Please don't tell me Mieville is a trot he's a big part of why I'm any kind of leftist today lol he devotes a chapter in his history of the October Revolution to talking about what a big scary authoritarian meanie Stalin would become
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Jun 22, 2021 18:29
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Like 90% of Marxist academics and authors prefer Trotsky to Stalin so I'm not sure why that would be devastating news but I figured I would mention it for Mieville
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Jun 22, 2021 18:33
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Yossarian-22 posted:Like 90% of Marxist academics and authors prefer Trotsky to Stalin so I'm not sure why that would be devastating news but I figured I would mention it for Mieville Citation needed
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Jun 22, 2021 18:39
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belgend posted:Citation needed Sorry should have said Western authors
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Jun 22, 2021 18:43
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It's ok to like China Mieville. Trotskyists can't hurt you in their realms of make believe.
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Jun 22, 2021 18:55
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it's no fun trashing trots without apropos of nothing 
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Jun 22, 2021 18:56
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what happened to apropos of nothing
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Jun 22, 2021 18:57
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they left cause of the mod harassment of Larry and haven’t come back
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Jun 22, 2021 18:59
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Deified Data posted:Please don't tell me Mieville is a trot he's a big part of why I'm any kind of leftist today lol he's the trottiest trot ever to trot. was a member of the Socialist Worker's Party and iirc left them in 2013 due to the party's rape scandal stuff it's definitely visible in his books too. Iron Council is all about how the perfect revolution is one that never actually happens so it can't either fail or become corrupted over time, real trotskyist fantasy
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Jun 22, 2021 19:07
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Mieville is still cool and a fun writer even if he's a trot, who care. I've had October sitting on my shelf forever and I need to get around to reading it. Hard to start when I know that there's no hot bugs w/ tittys in that one.
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Jun 22, 2021 19:10
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Mieville is still cool and a fun writer even if he's a trot, who care. he is a good writer for sure. got a signed copy of The Scar which I'm happy to have, I love that book. I'm just surprised anyone didn't know his specific leanings
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Jun 22, 2021 19:12
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