(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:it's not my scene, so what are the "mainstream maoist orgs" in the US? Literally the only ones I've dealt with IRL are red guard the Revolutionary Intercommunal Black Panther Party and ( I may be getting this name wrong I usually just deal with the acronym) Maoist-Communist Party. the organizing committee of which helps coordinate lots of For The People groups across the country. I have lots of friends in various FTPs and they do a fuckload of good work
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Jun 23, 2021 19:23
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| # ? May 30, 2024 21:03 |
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Demon Semen posted:.... I said having a strong opinion. I don't like Deng but I also don't give too much of a poo poo because he's dead. And also from China, which is a place that I cannot affect socioeconomically at this time
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Jun 23, 2021 19:23
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Everyone who has opinions on things I don’t know or care about is too online.
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Jun 23, 2021 19:23
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lCpt_Obvious posted:Serious question: Why all the hate for Deng? Given the outcome, it looks like he was right. I think he gets poo poo because Chinese workers are still being exploited by capital (albeit to less of an extent than they would have if the CCP collapsed) which sucks poo poo and bums people out. all this wealth has been created by workers in China but the people still don’t have stuff like free healthcare or cheap housing in places people want to live. I think absent some sort of reconciliation with the USSR in the 70s this was one of (if not the) China’s best of a bunch of hard choices but I don’t care if Deng catches some poo poo over it
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Jun 23, 2021 19:39
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He also liked to play mean-spirited pranks on people and then jump out of nearby cabinets yelling "you just got DENGED," so he's rightfully remembered as an rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:01
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Demon Semen posted:.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JykCv7IHUc8
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Jun 23, 2021 20:05
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC0Om8v8H7g I like this one more.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:13
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R. Mute posted:hell yeah brother. gotta get organized or the internet will fry your brain. Heck yeah
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Jun 23, 2021 20:45
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R. Mute posted:if you've ever organised anywhere near trots, you'd know you can't be in a big tent with them. just from a practical viewpoint. they're the cliché leftists - holier than thou, always have to get their way, constantly trying to enhance their own profile instead of empowering people, incessantly splitting, no plans to actually build power, being weird unwashed losers that put off the people they need to reach. and always with the newspapers this has also been my experience in the UK. the SWP especially made a name for themselves in trying to co-opt any movement or organising effort and then sabotaging it if they couldn't turn it into a front group. the others behave similarly. I became reasonably friendly with some International Marxist Tendency members who I met on a picket line but I didn't ever show interest in joining their group. one day i went to meet them for lunch and there was a guy there I didn't recognise - he'd travelled hundreds of miles from London, it turned out, and he grilled me about my political beliefs and how much Trotsky I'd read and I realised he'd specifically come to recruit me. he tried to get me to come to a Trotskyist Training Camp down in London (specifically described as a 'training camp' with no apparent irony) that very weekend, and when I said truthfully that I'd already got long-standing plans for that weekend he tried to convince me to abandon those plans to come to the Training Camp instead. I politely declined and he and the other IMT people promptly left and never spoke to me again. a lucky escape probably also every trot org in the UK has had some kind of sexual assault scandal but so have the anarchist orgs and the other communist orgs in the UK too. I don't think it's specific to the trotskyists
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Jun 23, 2021 21:14
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John Charity Spring posted:. Comes from being riddled with cops probably.
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Jun 23, 2021 21:22
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John Charity Spring posted:this has also been my experience in the UK. the SWP especially made a name for themselves in trying to co-opt any movement or organising effort and then sabotaging it if they couldn't turn it into a front group. the others behave similarly. I became reasonably friendly with some International Marxist Tendency members who I met on a picket line but I didn't ever show interest in joining their group. one day i went to meet them for lunch and there was a guy there I didn't recognise - he'd travelled hundreds of miles from London, it turned out, and he grilled me about my political beliefs and how much Trotsky I'd read and I realised he'd specifically come to recruit me. he tried to get me to come to a Trotskyist Training Camp down in London (specifically described as a 'training camp' with no apparent irony) that very weekend, and when I said truthfully that I'd already got long-standing plans for that weekend he tried to convince me to abandon those plans to come to the Training Camp instead. I politely declined and he and the other IMT people promptly left and never spoke to me again. a lucky escape probably lol cool.
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Jun 23, 2021 21:27
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I have a trot friend in my DSA chapter who's basically a raging stereotype minus the newspaper to sell. He's a cool dude but kind of a walking train wreck. Anyway his antics are hilarious to me
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Jun 23, 2021 21:28
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Larry Parrish posted:I said having a strong opinion. I don't like Deng but I also don't give too much of a poo poo because he's dead. And also from China, which is a place that I cannot affect socioeconomically at this time Doesn't stop people ITT from being obsessed with Trotsky although in fairness Trotskyists are generally annoying
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Jun 23, 2021 21:32
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:in real life the people you gotta be wary of are American Maoists 
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Jun 23, 2021 21:34
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This dude is a chad but in fairness leftcoms say this too. Bordiga's signature text is literally called "Revolutionary Totalitarianism" where he advocates that the workers maximize their power over the rest of society and repress the hell out of the bourgeoisie. Not sure why the virgin bad commie person is identified as such Personally I still find leftcommunism the most appealing tendency minus the weird tonedeaf "neither Israel nor Palestine" poo poo. I'm all about fighting nationalism but you can't be an idiot about it
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Jun 23, 2021 21:36
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it's not tone deaf, they imply destroying Israel and it's fascist apartheid state and replacing Palestine with some kind of regional government allowing the smaller minorities self rule
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Jun 23, 2021 21:38
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trap sprung
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Jun 23, 2021 21:41
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mcclay posted:the Revolutionary Intercommunal Black Panther Party and ( I may be getting this name wrong I usually just deal with the acronym) Maoist-Communist Party. the organizing committee of which helps coordinate lots of For The People groups across the country. I have lots of friends in various FTPs and they do a fuckload of good work I think that the MCP-OC actually dissolved because, as I understand it, they thought it was premature to try to organise a national party before the FTP chapters did a lot of local mass work. https://peoples-voice.org/2021/01/02/public-resolutions-from-the-second-conference-of-the-maoist-communist-party-organizing-committee/
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Jun 23, 2021 21:51
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e-dt posted:I think that the MCP-OC actually dissolved because, as I understand it, they thought it was premature to try to organise a national party before the FTP chapters did a lot of local mass work. they might have. most of my info on national orgs is second or thirdhand through comrades. anyways help out or join ur local FTP if you got one, or get some friends together and make one if ya don’t
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Jun 23, 2021 21:57
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Ferrinus posted:this is at least in part because deng never did mao dirty with a secret speech equivalent also Deng's foreign policy was largely a continuation of Mao's
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Jun 23, 2021 22:08
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Yossarian-22 posted:Personally I still find leftcommunism the most appealing tendency minus the weird tonedeaf "neither Israel nor Palestine" poo poo. I'm all about fighting nationalism but you can't be an idiot about it please, friend, explain to me what in the gently caress is a "leftcommunism" because I am extremely triggered by reading that
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Jun 23, 2021 22:08
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dead gay comedy forums posted:please, friend, explain to me what in the gently caress is a "leftcommunism" because I am extremely triggered by reading that it's where you're a leftist but you have too beautiful a soul to participate in any really-existing left project, be it a union drive or a war of national liberation, because it will only corrupt you by putting you in contact with the forces of reaction Ferrinus has issued a correction as of 22:15 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 22:11
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Ferrinus posted:it's where you're a leftist but you have too beautiful a soul to participate in any really-existing left project, be it a union drive or a war of national liberation, because it will only corrupt you by putting you in contact with the forces of reaction Stfu liberal. You aren't welcome
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Jun 23, 2021 22:17
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dead gay comedy forums posted:please, friend, explain to me what in the gently caress is a "leftcommunism" because I am extremely triggered by reading that It's the yin to the yang of rightfascism. Or the other way around
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Jun 23, 2021 22:18
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is that the one that's an infantile disorder??
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Jun 23, 2021 22:20
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my bony fealty posted:is that the one that's an infantile disorder?? yes. leftcommunists are "ideological" thinkers, and that's the nicest way you can put it.
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Jun 23, 2021 22:25
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my bony fealty posted:is that the one that's an infantile disorder?? The main agenda of Russian leftcoms was to have all power go to the Soviets just like the Bolsheviks. Their main hangup with the Bolsheviks was that they tried to organize in unions and run for elections in the Russian Duma, both of which the leftcoms believed to be corrupted and incapable of change from within. Lenin also opposed running for elections at one point for similar reasons as seen here. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1906/jan/00.htm They have a critiques of the state, of popular fronts, of antifascist alliances with procapitalist parts of the left, and of unions that I'm sympathetic to but they are notoriously inflexible and stubborn on all of those questions. Basically they think any mass action short of the workers' revolution is useless and the main meme about them is that they like to read a lot and not do anything except agitate for "the party" which they want to eventually build Luxemburg famously opposed Lenin's policy of national self determination in favor of working-class rule whereas Lenin was more pragmatic, believing that the Russian people would not be able to form solidarity with minorities in areas previously oppressed by the Russian Empire without granting them immediate independence. So some leftcoms have canonized her as one of their own. Of course it's not like her and Liebnicht had much success taking over Munich when the social democrats allied with Freikorp fascists in Germany Yossarian-22 has issued a correction as of 23:00 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 22:56
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the right idea with the wrong execution if you ask me.
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Jun 23, 2021 23:10
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in practical terms: don't worry about left communists. just don't become one.
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Jun 23, 2021 23:30
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Larry Parrish posted:the right idea with the wrong execution if you ask me. Yeah more or less how I feel too. Good at calling out capitalist collaboration at their best and puritanical at their worst
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Jun 23, 2021 23:37
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Yossarian-22 posted:Luxemburg famously opposed Lenin's policy of national self determination in favor of working-class rule whereas Lenin was more pragmatic, believing that the Russian people would not be able to form solidarity with minorities in areas previously oppressed by the Russian Empire without granting them immediate independence. even Trotsky thought this, he opposed Lenin wrt putting himself in government on the eve of the October revolution. iirc they had some conversation where Trotsky said "cmon people aren't ready to be governed by a Jew" and Lenin responded "since when do we care what dipshits think" but eventually ceded the argument
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Jun 24, 2021 00:27
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my bony fealty posted:this is fantastic and makes a lot of sense hahaha of course he was/is a speedfreak there's a crossover with what's left of industrial music and people who draw inspiration from it. industrial music has always flirted with martialism, authoritarianism and fascism. not always ironically and when it is ironic it's not always taken as ironic
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Jun 24, 2021 00:51
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i just noticed the thread title change and lmao
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Jun 24, 2021 01:39
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Marxism—Leninism—Larryism, the highest stage of cspam thought
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Jun 24, 2021 03:30
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:https://twitter.com/InfraredClips/status/1406505578189492226?s=20 Ahahahahahaha
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Jun 24, 2021 05:32
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:it's not my scene, so what are the "mainstream maoist orgs" in the US? Literally the only ones I've dealt with IRL are red guard Well, you've got FRSO, and then, you've got FRSO. Those are basically your two choices.
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Jun 24, 2021 08:27
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:Well, you've got FRSO, and then, you've got FRSO. Those are basically your two choices. I thought one of the frso is trotskyist now
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Jun 24, 2021 16:27
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post some words in the admin feedback sticky. maybe we can get rid of the weirdos.
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Jun 24, 2021 22:54
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Deng is okay in my book because he threaded the needle of how to handle Mao's legacy without creating a personality cult, and had good instincts wrt the strategies the PRC would have to employ to keep existing into the 21st century. Like the good news about the "is China socialist enough" debate is that our opinion doesn't matter in the slightest - to me it's an unambiguously good thing that the biggest geopolitical rival to the most evil empire on the face of the earth is a socialist one. It's good that China exists, whether I think it's seriously flawed or not. 
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Jun 24, 2021 23:21
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uh no you see China should have remained an extremely poor but egalitarian society, and it definitely would have been better to isolate itself from the world instead of having control over the industrial heart of the world system
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Jun 24, 2021 23:53
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