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I always think of exhaust as a bonus more than anything. Like, "Oh, this card is both obscenely powerful AND once I use it my deck's thinner? Sweet!" And that's not even getting into exhaust synergies. Or the fact that, honestly, how many times are you actually shuffling through your deck in an average encounter? Twice, maybe thrice?
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Jun 24, 2021 19:08
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Something like a third of IC cards say Exhaust on them somewhere, so you're really playing with one hand tied behind your back by not using them (assuming you have three hands)
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Jun 24, 2021 19:58
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In the vast majority of fights you don't go through the average deck more than twice, and often not more than once. Even if a card exhausting was objectively bad, which it isn't especially for IC, it wouldn't come up in many cases.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:01
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Plus its the easiest way to enable an infinite combo. Exhaust down to seven or fewer cards including 2 dropkicks and bash and congrats you have officially beaten every fight except the Heart
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Jun 24, 2021 20:08
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Zore posted:Plus its the easiest way to enable an infinite combo. 
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Jun 24, 2021 20:10
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Exhausting down to play limit break a few times and then reaper is probably 1/5 of my IC wins.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:14
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I think you might still be able to beat time-eater that way if you have stuff like shuriken and ornamental fan but I'm also really bad at this game so I could be wrong. If you play 11 dropkicks a turn that's (10x11) damage per turn factoring in vulnerable so I think it's still possible right?
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Jun 24, 2021 20:19
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You can still beat Time Eater with that infinite as long as you start it in phase 2 and don't take a ton of damage early on. Its still 75 damage minimum per turn even with the card limit which you can burst down in 2 turns. The only things that hard shut it down are Velvet Choker, Normality and the Heart.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:21
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Exhausting down to play limit break a few times and then reaper is probably 1/5 of my IC wins. I usually have a lot of fun with a deck based around rupture and reaper, just tanking hits to the face and sapping my own HP just to get it all back with a nice fat reaper. So satisfying.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:27
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Zore posted:You can still beat Time Eater with that infinite as long as you start it in phase 2 and don't take a ton of damage early on. Its still 75 damage minimum per turn even with the card limit which you can burst down in 2 turns. I find the heart easier to kill with "infiinite" decks than time eater because you can solve for beat with abbacus, rage, sun dial + shrug, that nuetral card that costs 0 and blocks/draws, etc. There are fewer "one item solutions" to the time eater. The more I post about it, the more I'm thinking I just have an issue with time eater in general.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:58
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my favourite infinite deck is two holograms that got sneckoed to 0 cost each and a letter opener. i had this happen on the heart one game but i also had a kunai and a couple all for one's in there somewhere so i was able to keep it going turn after turn
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Jun 24, 2021 21:02
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For the newbies, remember that True Grit lets you pick the card you exhaust on upgrade. That’s huge
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Jun 24, 2021 21:16
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Like I said it's a weird hangup I have. Too many years of hoarding elixirs in Final Fantasy I think. I think I'm going to just grab every exhaust card I can and see what works.
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Jun 24, 2021 21:20
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You haven't lived until you've killed yourself by accidentally exhausting the last attack cards in your deck with a Fiend Fire
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Jun 24, 2021 21:32
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ASAPRockySituation posted:For the newbies, remember that True Grit lets you pick the card you exhaust on upgrade. That’s huge True Grit is one of the more impactful upgrades, beaten only in power jump by Fission.
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Jun 24, 2021 21:36
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Jedit posted:True Grit is one of the more impactful upgrades, beaten only in power jump by Fission. I don't think I've ever taken fission because it didn't seem that good. That upgrade sounds awesome though. I'll have to take it on the next run.
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Jun 24, 2021 21:50
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In case people don't know - Abacus and Sundial (which trigger on reshuffle) have a weird and beneficial interaction with certain infinite combos that draw 2 cards at a time (Rushdown and Pommel Strike+ being the likely ones). If you have one card in your discard pile and none in your draw, and you have to draw twice, the game will trigger a reshuffle and draw your first card, and THEN it will trigger a reshuffle again because your draw pile is empty again, even though you don't have a discard pile. This means the reshuffle relics can proc twice for a single card play.
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Jun 24, 2021 21:56
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I hope if they do a Slay the Spire 2 or another deckbuilder they lean in to having more upgrades genuinely change how the cards work over making numbers slightly bigger. Its super weird that one of the only cards in the game that does this is the otherwise completely unremarkable Darkness in Defect which gets an interesting rider instead of just spawning 2 Dark orbs or whatever
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Jun 24, 2021 22:01
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there arent a ton of cards as they currently exist where that's feasible. you also dont want every card to be a weird totally different card when its upgraded - upgrades should have very different values per card. some upgrades are really useful, some are not - sorta like how there are lovely attacks in the game partially so you can have act 1 strategies that revolve around them the devs willingness to have a card like rip and tear in the game, or have the upgrades for some cards be something dumb like removing ethereal is part of the reason why this game is so phenomenally well made/balanced
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Jun 24, 2021 22:05
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Verviticus posted:there arent a ton of cards as they currently exist where that's feasible. you also dont want every card to be a weird totally different card when its upgraded - upgrades should have very different values per card. some upgrades are really useful, some are not - sorta like how there are lovely attacks in the game partially so you can have act 1 strategies that revolve around them Right but as it is what I'm talking about is basically limited to Darkness unless I'm forgetting something. Having it spread out a bit more would be nice is all.
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Jun 24, 2021 22:06
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edit: eh i guess it is. i dunno i think maybe darkness is just in a strange place because there isnt really another way to go about it other than maybe making it free like zap
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Jun 24, 2021 22:09
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Zore posted:Right but as it is what I'm talking about is basically limited to Darkness unless I'm forgetting something. Having it spread out a bit more would be nice is all. I would say the upgrades to True Grit and Fission are similarly transformative.
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Jun 24, 2021 22:30
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This has to be the first time I'm happy with my rewards for Ironclad on floor one. Rampage, Feel No Pain and Pommel Strike are offered right away. I'm facing Slime Boss so Rampage? Or Feel No Pain immediately? I'm choosing Rampage but maybe I'm wrong? Usually I get nothing but trash here.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:32
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I'd strongly consider pommel strike because it gives me more flexibility in my build and I don't trust rampage to scale far enough to matter. Obviously they are all three pretty good cards and you probably wouldn't regret any of them in Act 2.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:42
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Patrick Spens posted:I would say the upgrades to True Grit and Fission are similarly transformative. they are in impact but what i think he was saying was that darkness just gains a thing that no other card has
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Jun 24, 2021 23:44
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I like rampage in theory but in practice I have never gotten value out of it that was comparable to pommel strike or feel no pain.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:45
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Doesn't matter since the run ended before I even got to Slime Boss. I got 0 defensive options all the way through and my first relic was Charon's Ashes so I started to pivot to exhausting with Feel No Pain. Then I fought the slime gang on a ? tile who got me down to single digits. Then a big slime and thief who wiped me just before the last rest. Should have chosen Pommel Strike.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:57
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Walla posted:This has to be the first time I'm happy with my rewards for Ironclad on floor one. Rampage, Feel No Pain and Pommel Strike are offered right away. I'm facing Slime Boss so Rampage? Or Feel No Pain immediately? I'm choosing Rampage but maybe I'm wrong? Usually I get nothing but trash here. Rampage never really pays off. It certainly has some useful times, but FNP and Pommel Strike are both really good. I'm think I'm about 60/40 in favor of Pommel Strike vs FNP on floor 1. PS is good against everything, draw a card, and has a great upgrade. FNP is an amazing block engine, but wants a little more support than you have at floor one. It does turn the act 1 sentries fight into a joke, plus the other daze adding fights. Try not to make slime boss a long fight. Since he does his first split after going below 50%, sometimes it's better to tank that first hit on turn 3 in order to get another full turn of attacking him as far below 50% as you can. Every extra hp in damage you do in the first phase is worth 4 hp in the last phase, where you also have to deal with your atk and block being debuffed. If you split the first two phases close to the 50% thresholds, those last 4 slimes at full hp can be brutal.
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Jun 25, 2021 00:22
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Floor 1 Feel No Pain is basically a curse for everything except the Sentries until you can get a couple of exhaust cards in your deck. It's a very strong card eventually but you really want immediate power out of your early card picks.
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Jun 25, 2021 00:43
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Rampage is nice against guardian and lagavulin but not great vs the other bosses and elites. Generally it shines when you can can exhaust your deck down to something small so you can play it again and again, but even then it's more of a stopgap for times when I can't find better scaling. I think it's similar to sword boomerang in that it starts out meh but can scale better later on.
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Jun 25, 2021 00:58
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Rampage, particularly upgraded can be enough scaling to get you through Acts 1 and 2 if you have some card draw/exhaust. I got the minimalist achievement by playing Rampage and Shrug it off over and over again. But it's generally not enough to get you through the heart.
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Jun 25, 2021 01:11
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And I just brat Time Keeper with Ironclad! The deck was a loving jumbled mess but I managed to whittle him down to half health and went all in with Fiend Fire which ended him. Also had Charon's Ashes so he got hit with an extra 3 on each card and my hand was at or near the limit. Felt good but I avoided almost every fight in Act 3 and especially the Elites. I need more practice with this guy because I just am not comfortable with him. Now I just need to finish Act 3 with the Silent and I can get ready for the Heart.
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Jun 25, 2021 01:41
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The really funny thing about the Ironclad is he is the only character I have fully unlocked and I still don't have a clear grasp on how to build him in Act 1.
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Jun 25, 2021 01:43
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Walla posted:The really funny thing about the Ironclad is he is the only character I have fully unlocked and I still don't have a clear grasp on how to build him in Act 1. In my experience you're really just looking for straight damage cards to get IC through act 1. There are cards like wild strike and carnage that do solid base damage but really aren't great at scaling, so you want to use a couple of those to brute force act 1 fights until you get your strength or exhaust scaling and a 4th energy. Also re: the best card upgrade conversation, I think limit break might be my all time go-to upgrade. As long as you have something to build a strength base with you can easily use limit break to get 50+ strength a fight. And it only gets better if you exhaust the cards around it.
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Jun 25, 2021 02:08
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I leaned hard into Perfected Strike. I think I had 4 if them, plus at least 1 Wild Strike and all of my originals. I also had Feel No Pain, True Grit and Fiend Fire. Like I said, it was a jumbled mess that didn't have an identity but it pulled off the win.
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Jun 25, 2021 02:53
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I think of Rampage as "8 damage + 13 damage = 21 damage, for 2 cards and 2 energy", which is ok for a floor 1 pick. And as Octavius said, it's decent vs. Guardian and Lagavulin. I don't think it's worth depending on past Act 1 though, I think for it to pay off you would need to be using it multiple times per turn, which is hard to get going (and if you do get it going, you're probably winning without Rampage as well).
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Jun 25, 2021 08:24
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I sometimes grab a headbutt because it is a very versatile card. If I don’t have any scaling and rampage comes along, it’s an instant grab for me. I agree it’s way more useful early but a simple synergy makes it useful throughout.
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Jun 25, 2021 10:07
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Did some runs with the Silent last night. The Collector is proving to be a major hurdle for me. I can never stack enough defense or damage him fast enough. I did learn the Vampire event will give you a full amount of Bites even if you have no Strikes. A bug in the Switch version?
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Jun 25, 2021 12:30
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Not a bug, can't remember the exact wording but it's something remove ALL (remaining) strikes, add 5 bites As opposed to Replace all your strikes
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Jun 25, 2021 12:54
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Yeah, in the discussion about removes in act 1 that we had in the last few days, that was one of the things I mentioned: I give a small (but non-zero) amount of consideration in act 1 to not removing strikes in case I want to take the Bites event in act 2. The fewer strikes you have, the worse the Bites swap becomes.
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Jun 25, 2021 15:31
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