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It is a little misleading without acknowledging the value of the artifact drops themselves. For me I take the mora but if I needed artifact exp, hero's wits, or mystic ore I'd take those.
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Jun 24, 2021 16:08
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Artifact numbers you will just get mad at is actually negative value.
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Jun 24, 2021 16:42
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No Wave posted:Couldnt you also say the gold artifact is worth 20 resin and the arti xp is impossible to calculate? Artifact xp for a 5* +0 artifact is 3780. The non-xp resin value of a given 5* artifact to you is arbitrary and changes. That's why you can't play this game like a robot with a flowchart. Sometimes the more resin-inefficient task winds up being a better option due to personal circumstances.
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Jun 24, 2021 16:43
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You can play it like a flow chart, and you should. But stating that 14k arti xp is worth 20 resin is a bad input.
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Jun 24, 2021 16:53
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While its certainly true that good artifact drops have value, its pretty lame to be all like "show your math"  then respond to their math with "well subjectively I value things differently".
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Jun 24, 2021 16:55
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Artifact XP potions can also be critical and give you way more bonus XP than is possible than foddering 6 level 0 artifacts.
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Jun 24, 2021 17:01
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hit button posted:While its certainly true that good artifact drops have value, its pretty lame to be all like "show your math"
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Jun 24, 2021 17:01
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Oh no mentioning jinx made me realize this is an argument about efficiency and fuuuuuuck that who cares I just have never bought anything besides moons and now that I have all the schematics I was curious what ppl do.
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Jun 24, 2021 17:06
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What it comes down to for me is that I will never not need Mora, and I will never want to stop chancing my arm at better artifacts from the RNG. Honestly I think the only people who still need artifacts leveling, that I use regularly are Diona and Bennett with their HP sets. And I definitely do not have all the artifacts I want (getting VV EM pieces is like pulling teeth)
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Jun 24, 2021 17:12
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Farming Venerer hurts a bit less because it's op af. Don't have to be too concerned about it getting power creeped.
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Jun 24, 2021 17:17
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I usually buy EXP books because I don't like doing leylines for them. People at AR50+ can do whatever they want; there's no need to worry about efficiency at that point because the content isn't going to outlevel them any time soon. The non-resin shop items come in at a slow trickle and they're very close in terms of efficiency; the choice should always be judged on a case-by-case and moment-to-moment basis. Do what feels right for you and your player experience.
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Jun 24, 2021 17:37
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Harrow posted:I haven't finished the current story yet but this is probably why people are so stoked for Inazuma to come soon. A new region means new things to explore, new story quests, new dungeon crawls, etc. I will say eventually I'll be putting a lot more effort on the housing part of the game. That one is really my kind of jam. I do hope we'll see all seven regions before the servers go down for good. These GaaS types do have a thing of dying off within a couple of years.
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Jun 24, 2021 17:41
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hit button posted:While its certainly true that good artifact drops have value, its pretty lame to be all like "show your math" Pretty much this. It's not an argument about math because it's never an argument about math. It's an argument against the imagined conclusions that were read into it. This lets you entirely disregard the numbers (and/or the person who posted them) because they're clearly wrong in that conclusion they never actually came to.
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Jun 24, 2021 17:50
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I feel like we're missing the nice part of buying artifact xp vials from the teapot bird: you get them without playing and grinding. Maybe you don't want to play the game for a job where you set your alarm to wake up every few hours to maximize perfect resin usage. Maybe you wanna ignore the game, play with your cat, go on a walk, see a friend, and then come back and spend your birdbux on this hat you don't feel like grinding out in the field of pitiless combat.
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Jun 24, 2021 17:56
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Mailer posted:Pretty much this. It's not an argument about math because it's never an argument about math. It's an argument against the imagined conclusions that were read into it. This lets you entirely disregard the numbers (and/or the person who posted them) because they're clearly wrong in that conclusion they never actually came to. "Transient Resin is by far the best followed by Artifact EXP items and then Mora then Hero's Wit." You mean that conclusion?
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Jun 24, 2021 18:04
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I tend to value Mora less because it's handed out by everything. And maybe also because I have a ton if it from BPs and not spending a lot of resources on characters I don't favor.
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Jun 24, 2021 18:07
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I definitely get the feeling that buying Gnostic Hymn every BP is a huge help with mora
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Jun 24, 2021 18:09
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Harrow posted:I definitely get the feeling that buying Gnostic Hymn every BP is a huge help with mora
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Jun 24, 2021 18:10
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SlimGoodbody posted:I feel like we're missing the nice part of buying artifact xp vials from the teapot bird: you get them without playing and grinding. Maybe you don't want to play the game for a job where you set your alarm to wake up every few hours to maximize perfect resin usage. Maybe you wanna ignore the game, play with your cat, go on a walk, see a friend, and then come back and spend your birdbux on this hat you don't feel like grinding out in the field of pitiless combat. Pass
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Jun 24, 2021 18:22
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No Wave posted:You mean that conclusion? The conclusion with no subjective elements as to the biggest resin-related value on the list? Yes. If you're arguing against that then you are in fact not arguing against an imagined conclusion. You are arguing against basic math and at that point there's not much I can say.  Harrow posted:I definitely get the feeling that buying Gnostic Hymn every BP is a huge help with mora It's definitely (unlike welkins) the "premium" option. The kind of f2p offering that fits in with exp doublers and extra character/inventory slots. It won't change things up for time-limited stuff in the way gems can but it lets you get on with it without having so many large chunks of boring ley lines so you can afford a couple of talent levels or whatever. Not required, but if you got the spare cash it's worth it. I'll probably drop it after another couple more iterations because all my non-Lisa/Amber/Xinyan characters will be kitted out and I'll just be focusing on each new pull as they come in.
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Jun 24, 2021 18:49
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Well, I'm a sucrose believer now, at this point I think I'll count her along top 5* carries with how much work she is doing with a tiny investment She was even better in the top half in place of chongyun but then I had no way to do the second half in a timely manner. It's hard to overstate how well she deals with every floor in current abyss right now. gandlethorpe posted:Artifact XP potions can also be critical and give you way more bonus XP than is possible than foddering 6 level 0 artifacts. Did they add a new random 5X bonus artifact xp this patch? I've had it happen 8 times this month already when using xp pots and I've never seen it before.
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Jun 24, 2021 19:00
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AParadox posted:Did they add a new random 5X bonus artifact xp this patch? I've had it happen 8 times this month already when using xp pots and I've never seen it before.
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Jun 24, 2021 19:14
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Mailer posted:The conclusion with no subjective elements as to the biggest resin-related value on the list? Yes. If you're arguing against that then you are in fact not arguing against an imagined conclusion. You are arguing against basic math and at that point there's not much I can say. The math starts out with a false premise that 60 resin in artifact domains is equal to 60 resin in artifact exp. If you want to say that's not a subjective take on it, that's fine but the math is flawed.
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Jun 24, 2021 19:38
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You can't buy artifact exp with resin silly goose.
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Jun 24, 2021 19:50
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kater posted:You can't buy artifact exp with resin silly goose. hey watch who you're calling goose
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Jun 24, 2021 19:54
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Anyway my view on spending coins is that first buy the fragile resin, second buy whatever you need most right now, third maybe save because there's new blueprints in patches apparently.
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Jun 24, 2021 19:55
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Everything is fairly close so I agree, its an opportunity to just do the one that feels good.
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Jun 24, 2021 19:58
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Tanreall posted:The math starts out with a false premise that 60 resin in artifact domains is equal to 60 resin in artifact exp. If you want to say that's not a subjective take on it, that's fine but the math is flawed. That's a better point than you make it sound; from AR35-39, you can't get 5* artifacts at all, so no matter how the math shakes out the EXP-per-resin efficiency for the teapot shop will be better at AR35-39 than AR50-55. That makes it objectively true that artifact EXP is a more appealing option at the lower end of AR35+ than at the higher end. To give a truly concrete answer to the question of whether it's more efficient to buy mora, books, or artifact juice, we'd need information on the efficiency of each at each AR range: AR35-39, AR40-44, and AR45+. None of us want to do that math ourselves, which is why we're all arguing in circles about it here without any real solid evidence. Considering the common recommendation to hold off on artifact farming until AR45 (when you're guaranteed at least one 5* artifact per run), there's certainly some subjective benefit to accumulating artifact EXP during that dry period via the teapot shop. If you're at AR35-44, it's worth considering, I think.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:03
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Is it even possible to be trust rank 8 by AR35?
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Jun 24, 2021 20:06
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All the numbers we're talking about are based on AR50+ as that's what's in the tweet/spreadsheet. If at lower ARs different things are more or less valuable cool, but it's not really relevant to the numbers we're talking about.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:11
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Tanreall posted:The math starts out with a false premise that 60 resin in artifact domains is equal to 60 resin in artifact exp. That might be true. I didn't do the math beforehand to check that 60 resin in domains would line up to 44k and change. The whole hubub was around assigning an arbitrary resin value to any 5* artifact beyond its raw xp value, which no one can ever account for because it's completely subjective. That's not covered in the chart because how the hell could you ever do that. It's not misleading, it just doesn't take into account how much extra value you personally put on things. I always go with the mora because I desperately need it more than artifact xp. That doesn't make the math wrong, it just means optimizing for me wanting things now doesn't jive with optimizing in a vacuum. Still not going to tell theorycrafters they're full of poo poo because their all-things-being-equal calculations don't perfectly match what I'm doing.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:13
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Can we talk about what really matters? How cute Kazuha is?
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Jun 24, 2021 20:15
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no, i'm trying to keep my sanity while waiting until Tuesday
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Jun 24, 2021 20:23
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Mailer posted:That might be true. I didn't do the math beforehand to check that 60 resin in domains would line up to 44k and change. The whole hubub was around assigning an arbitrary resin value to any 5* artifact beyond its raw xp value, which no one can ever account for because it's completely subjective. That's not covered in the chart because how the hell could you ever do that. It's not misleading, it just doesn't take into account how much extra value you personally put on things. You put an asterisk and explain. Not everything can be shown in basic mathematics. The 60 resin bit doesn't really matter. I probably should have just said resin. It's flawed in that it assumes away any value in the drops outside of exp.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:26
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No Wave posted:Is it even possible to be trust rank 8 by AR35? Let's see...7,475 adventure EXP to AR36, 1,400 per day from daily commissions. Probably not, unless you're logging in to do the teapot and literally nothing else. The real question is whether you can hit it before AR39, since that removes the need for calculations for that entire range, but that's more math than I care to do. Tanreall posted:All the numbers we're talking about are based on AR50+ as that's what's in the tweet/spreadsheet. If at lower ARs different things are more or less valuable cool, but it's not really relevant to the numbers we're talking about. Oh, no wonder the conversation isn't going anywhere. AR50+ is like the least important range for this topic. The real max-efficiency way to play is whatever way prevents you from burning out and quitting; at AR50+ you're already in grinding hell forever so subjective, personalized preferences for gameplay become much more pertinent than pure numbers. gandlethorpe posted:Can we talk about what really matters? How cute Kazuha is?  I'm not sold on him yet myself, but I was neutral on Chongyun and Albedo too before we got to interact with them as characters.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:46
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What about the personal aesthetic value I put on watching more/exp leyline flowers unfold? Yeah, what about that. I look at this from a broad perspective: I am always going to need more resources (I am building basically everyone as long at that is viable, with a core hyper-built team for Abyss) so picking the most resin efficient option is my strategy. You're of course going to need to do actual artifact domains to get the artifacts you need, but you need to do like 14 runs to get enough artifact exp to bring a single artifact from 1-20. This is why weapon exp is always the last option I pick because you can get it resin-free if you're on it. If I was a whale leveling up all 5* weapons then I might not be able to keep up with that though. Anyway, I'll include my daily PSA to do the artifact route which will give you ~40 resin worth of artifact exp. Yes, just artifact exp. The value you put on 5* artifacts is extra value. You also get mora from picking up the nodes as well! I think it works out to be like 0.5-1 resin worth of mora per total artifact run that takes you 15mins. It all adds up, lmao.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:51
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What's the best way to gain trust ranks, anyway? I unlocked the teapot recently and I'm not sure what the best thing to do is. Just craft stuff?
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Jun 24, 2021 20:51
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Harrow posted:What's the best way to gain trust ranks, anyway? I unlocked the teapot recently and I'm not sure what the best thing to do is. Just craft stuff? No Wave fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 24, 2021 20:53
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The anemo flying blob drops 600 mora or as we like to call it here a fifth of a resin.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:58
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Harrow posted:I definitely get the feeling that buying Gnostic Hymn every BP is a huge help with mora Its a huge help with EVERYTHING. If you max that sucker out and have it around 50 by the end of the month its a easy $10 to get a lot of mona, exp books, weapon crystals and some extra fates & gems. The game got me to actually pay when I maxed the Hymn to 50 and said gently caress it. Harrow posted:What's the best way to gain trust ranks, anyway? I unlocked the teapot recently and I'm not sure what the best thing to do is. Just craft stuff? You gotta build stuff for the first time. If a item has a blue symbol on the upper right it will give you some trust amount after building it. I think there is a guide floating around some where to help unlock at least two queues in the least amount of time.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:58
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