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Athanatos posted:There are some "They were joking" when things like that come up most times. Or "You are just reading it wrong." Without giving specific instances, it does happen. But that is 0% limited to CSPAM, that's a forum-wide thing and not something I fault CSPAM for. Every time there is some community issue here the reaction from the admins and the mods seems to be "how can we improve the process / do we need more transparency / let's get community feedback" and absolutely never "have we filled the voluntary staff here with vindictive pieces of poo poo?" And fwiw as for the question "What is CSPAM" among other answers here which are also correct, there is also an element of "well it's not D&D" because a lot of the posters here are people who were driven out of D&D by the terrible mods there. Now that it's its own top-level forum maybe that will wither away in time, but imo it's part of the creation mythos or whatever. MSDOS KAPITAL has issued a correction as of 22:31 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 22:28
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i hope the site staff stays aware of the discussions surrounding china both here and elsewhere on the site. the amount of forums bullshit surrounding the topic is only gonna get worse with the current political climate. idk what to do about any of it but it's not going away any time soon
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Jun 25, 2021 22:42
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HookedOnChthonics posted:jazerus, i understand why you might have this perception, but i want to challenge it--as an extremely unscientific measure i just copied the top posters lists from the top 6-7 threads in cspam rn into a notepad doc and started doing ctrl-f with big names from the trump thread leaderboard, and there's not a lot of overlap! i mean yeah your unscientific approach isnt great because if someones posting in one thread alot they're not posting elsewhere. it doesnt mean that the other 90% of that thread isnt posting or reading elsewhere.
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Jun 25, 2021 22:44
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The Glenn Greenwald thread has been all over the place but after the moderation of it lightened, it began to blossom again. I’m very happy with the level of discourse and the derails are actually a nice spice. I’m willing to say any reports from that thread will be grudgeposting and nothing else. I do wish paul soccer didn’t get ganked for a days old post but so it goes. I’m not thrilled with how the marxism thread has been since the reboot. It used to have a pretty great level of discourse, but then it got moved to Fyad (funny) snd its reboot was all about hating Flavius for forever and I don’t feel it’s ever fully recovered. The pictures thread is one of the best threads on all of SA. All kinds of good stuff in there from all over the place. It manages to be both funny and informative and should be bookmarked by lurkers. Gradenko and Kropoopkin are great, well informed, and engaging posters. Neither seems to do the self-eating thing leftists are famous for and neither takes the bait that I’ve seen. e: also I wish it wasn’t so megathreaddy but making threads is hard and a lot of stuff falls into the same buckets. I think this forum would be cooler if it weren’t essentially 5ish chat threads and some small bois Diqnol has issued a correction as of 22:50 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 22:44
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:Every time there is some community issue here the reaction from the admins and the mods seems to be "how can we improve the process / do we need more transparency / let's get community feedback" and absolutely never "have we filled the voluntary staff here with vindictive pieces of poo poo?" 
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Jun 25, 2021 22:54
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Korean Boomhauer posted:i mean yeah your unscientific approach isnt great because if someones posting in one thread alot they're not posting elsewhere. it doesnt mean that the other 90% of that thread isnt posting or reading elsewhere. I read a lot of other threads on here but I don’t post a lot because I rarely have something to contribute. I don’t think doing a statistical analysis of who posts where is helpful.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:05
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One thing that I think is kind of offensive in the way people talk about CSPAM is the idea that "doomposting is making people mentally ill." Not only is armchair diagnosis hosed up and never catches a punishment, but it can actually help people feel more sane to see other people taking issues with the correct level of gravity. For some people in other forums, it makes them feel more sane to go out of their way to be overly positive and try to squeeze the most charitable possible interpretation out of news stories. It's almost like there are multiple ways to blow of some steam when it comes to posting about the news - it's weird that the toxic positivity liberals have decided this gives them the right to diagnose other posters with mental illness. being upset that Joe Biden’s administration is still operating migrant child prisons: mentally ill doomposting writing a few paragraphs of unsupported-by-reality fanfic about how the Biden administration is secretly, quietly doing the right thing: sane, normal effortposting gudetama has issued a correction as of 23:14 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 23:05
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Athanatos posted:There are some "They were joking" when things like that come up most times. Or "You are just reading it wrong." Without giving specific instances, it does happen. But that is 0% limited to CSPAM, that's a forum-wide thing and not something I fault CSPAM for. I don't post new threads, there's enough threads here that whenever I come by there's a ton of posts in each and I learn from it there before I even find out Maybe it's because I use SALR and Awful app, and I don't use social media, I dunno. e: What's an apprx. numbers of complaints from D&D posters about cspam and vice-versa?
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Jun 25, 2021 23:11
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Korean Boomhauer posted:i mean yeah your unscientific approach isnt great because if someones posting in one thread alot they're not posting elsewhere. it doesnt mean that the other 90% of that thread isnt posting or reading elsewhere. the assertion jaz made tho was that regular contributors to other threads like Pentecoastal Elites are actually "isolated" if they aren't also at least reading the trump thread enough to recognize its posters, to which the observation that the trump thread does actually spend a lot of time on posters and throughlines that stay totally contained within it seems relevant? honestly i'm not advocating for any changes or anything here so i'll drop it, i just wanted to provide a counter-anecdote to jazerus as someone who used to read trump thread a lot then pretty much dropped it cold and really don't feel that i'm missing out on the holy communion of sharing in plinkey's cheezers or dolphin's waffle-stomping or any of that. vvvv exactly, which is why i disagree with Jazerus posted:i don't mean to be mean here, but if you really can stride into the trump/chat thread and not recognize anyone who is posting in there, you are the one that is in an insular part of cspam HookedOnChthonics has issued a correction as of 23:38 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 23:30
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HookedOnChthonics posted:the assertion jaz made tho was that regular contributors to other threads like Pentecoastal Elites are actually "isolated" if they aren't also at least reading the trump thread enough to recognize its posters, to which the observation that the trump thread does actually spend a lot of time on posters and throughlines that stay totally contained within it seems relevant? It's.. it's only one thread.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:32
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HookedOnChthonics posted:the assertion jaz made tho was that regular contributors to other threads like Pentecoastal Elites are actually "isolated" if they aren't also at least reading the trump thread enough to recognize its posters, to which the observation that the trump thread does actually spend a lot of time on posters and throughlines that stay totally contained within it seems relevant? you are missing out, now it’s about Harton’s beefer poofing and Buddykins’ rotten tooth, things move fast in the chat thread
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Jun 25, 2021 23:37
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Barreft posted:e: What's an apprx. numbers of complaints from D&D posters about cspam and vice-versa? Depends on if you are counting reports as complaints, or QCS posts, or PMs, or Emails, or all of the above. poo poo I don't even think I could guess the number. My first instinct would be to say "HIGH" but that's mostly because every other forum that number is basically 0. That might make it feel more extreme...but the number is still pretty high. Now, a lot of them are horseshit babies just reporting or trying to tell on someone to get them in trouble because they hate them. It's about even with the back and forth complaints, neither side really wins the "most complaints" award.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:40
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Athanatos posted:This is one of those "If you don't like it...why are you obsessed with reading/watching it" things. If you (not necessarily personally you, but it was the express purpose of spinning up the Election Erection) are going to have "effortpost politics forum" and "shitpost politics forum", of course people are going to cross over both based on how they feel like posting that day or where a topic that hits home to them is being actively discussed, and if you (not necessarily personally you, but woof this is a huge problem overall) are going to abdicate any responsibility for looking at post content and default to a post's Flesch-Kincaid score as a measure of its effort it's going to produce a situation where the group that habitually adds blather and weasel words is automatically backed by the mod staff. Leading to the retreat to "C-SPAM" rather than "goon" identity you're finding. I'm leery of the idea of a formal "Romney Republican through Warren Dem" space and a formal "to the left of that" space, where anyone with a long history in one is de facto forumbanned from the other--a lot of the first have curated away any actual left thought so long they're firmly convinced they're part of the second; setting a demcent platform to deal with that problem is a moderation nightmare and drifts far too close to posting as praxis; and there are several notable threads especially in D&D that would be better matches to the other but lose their base if moved--but the ivory tower/raucous mob dichotomy with mod enforcement behind it is like declaring that anyone too prominent in one of the TFF conference threads is obviously biased and just there to poo poo up the tea-sipping postseason threads.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:46
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gudetama posted:One thing that I think is kind of offensive in the way people talk about CSPAM is the idea that "doomposting is making people mentally ill." Not only is armchair diagnosis hosed up and never catches a punishment, but it can actually help people feel more sane to see other people taking issues with the correct level of gravity. For some people in other forums, it makes them feel more sane to go out of their way to be overly positive and try to squeeze the most charitable possible interpretation out of news stories. It's almost like there are multiple ways to blow of some steam when it comes to posting about the news - it's weird that the toxic positivity liberals have decided this gives them the right to diagnose other posters with mental illness. i don't know what's up with this forum but when I say people should go outside or get a job or talk to real workers instead of posting 100 times a day, im not actually supporting the status quo or saying your wrong. im saying stop posting a thousand times a day about which respirator to wear. it makes you mentally ill.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:48
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Athanatos posted:Depends on if you are counting reports as complaints, or QCS posts, or PMs, or Emails, or all of the above. poo poo I don't even think I could guess the number. My first instinct would be to say "HIGH" but that's mostly because every other forum that number is basically 0. That might make it feel more extreme...but the number is still pretty high. Now, a lot of them are horseshit babies just reporting or trying to tell on someone to get them in trouble because they hate them. That surprises me honestly, not that I don't believe you. The people in the threads, like others have said, make fun of people but it never seems serious and everyone is pretty chill. But then PMs are anon so of course. I don't know, but D&D is way to up it's rear end to be the only political forum. When I'm at work taking a poo poo and I see a ridiculous tweet in awful app in cspam I respond with a "jfc" with no fear of getting yelled at for a shitpost while making GBS threads because I didn't make and proofread a document.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:48
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Larry Parrish posted:i don't know what's up with this forum but when I say people should go outside or get a job or talk to real workers instead of posting 100 times a day, im not actually supporting the status quo or saying your wrong. im saying stop posting a thousand times a day about which respirator to wear. it makes you mentally ill. Covid thread is BAD. I agree there.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:49
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Athanatos posted:Depends on if you are counting reports as complaints, or QCS posts, or PMs, or Emails, or all of the above. poo poo I don't even think I could guess the number. My first instinct would be to say "HIGH" but that's mostly because every other forum that number is basically 0. That might make it feel more extreme...but the number is still pretty high. Now, a lot of them are horseshit babies just reporting or trying to tell on someone to get them in trouble because they hate them. CSPAM posters trying to tattle on dnd posters should be mocked incessantly imo.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:51
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Barreft posted:That surprises me honestly, not that I don't believe you. The people in the threads, like others have said, make fun of people but it never seems serious and everyone is pretty chill. But then PMs are anon so of course. Yeah, and nobody has any way of verifying it other than other mods or admins going "Yeah, it's true" but even then it comes down to trust. A lot of the complaints are not full raging anger. A lot of "take a look at this" or "I don't like what this person is saying, do something." There is some rage and anger and some people will say "This thread is bad, have someone keep an eye on it maybe?" So "complaints" gets lumped in to a lot of things...but there does end up being a lot. It also ties into those times when a mod says "reports are crazy" and everyone kinda laughs at them for thinking reading a line of complaint and a post is "hard work." Really, you gotta figure out what the issue us, find the context, figure out the back and forth, maybe read a few pages of the thread, decide what needs to be done, ask for help if needed, ask for context from the reporter. It can become a bit of time if you are doing it right, and not just rubber stamping. That's not every report, and most of them you look at and go "This is nothing." But when there are 80 reports for your forum in the queue, it can add up. Personally I liked when people hit the Report button when I was running QCS. It gave me a better idea of where people's head was at on things. People are more willing to be honest in "private" than in open forums. It's why reaching out to people as a mod is important as hell. Instead of just going straight to a probe, PM and go "what the hell?" Barreft posted:I don't know, but D&D is way to up it's rear end to be the only political forum. When I'm at work taking a poo poo and I see a ridiculous tweet in awful app in cspam I respond with a "jfc" with no fear of getting yelled at for a shitpost while making GBS threads because I didn't make and proofread a document. CSPAM is here, so D&D wont be the only political forum ever.
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Jun 26, 2021 00:05
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Make a reports mock thread in cspam imo
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Jun 26, 2021 00:07
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Homeless Friend posted:Make a reports mock thread in cspam imo the "stop making stupid reports" thread stickied in pyf is a great idea and its a shame that its not a forum-wide standard
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Jun 26, 2021 00:26
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D&D would never tolerate one so it wouldnt be a real fix but if you want something to respond to QCS whiners like you said itd be some good ammo
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Jun 26, 2021 00:34
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Athanatos posted:And again, I'm not here to make some SWEEPING crazy changes or flip CSPAM. So don't take my posts in here as declarations of anything. there was an ancient cefte post about LF that i always think about when people ask this question, god it's been a minute but i'll try and recollect it: basically, he said that he'd been posting in DnD for years by the point LF opened. he had been posting with some people he thought were total insufferable idiots - bad faith, just dumb, whatever - but the atmosphere and rules have always, always strongly discouraged telling someone else that they were a loving idiot, even when it was incredibly well deserved. LF had value to him because it allowed him both freedoms - to carry on a complex argument if he felt it desirable/constructive to do so but say "gently caress off" when it wouldn't be. to be fair i've always found that more representative of any kind of actual discourse where people get a little rowdy sometimes - it is unsurprising given any kind of marxist-leninist tradition in particular was named after two thinkers who adored combative, cruel or even downright dickish intellectual debate - seeing them as rhetorical tools. marxist academic discourse loving loves this poo poo too - just two hundred years of people penning passive aggressive books, papers, articles, letters, minutes, newspapers (holy poo poo) posted back and forth at each other endlessly, that's the legacy we all add to someday.
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Jun 26, 2021 00:37
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one of the core drivers of cspam drama is people flattening their interpersonal disputes (unimportant) and the topic they're posting about (politics, important). often if you strip away the vulgar materialism or whatever, you're just left with the same cliquishness or obsessiveness or personality disorders you find in the videogames forum. i'm sure it makes things tedious for other forums posters if a qcs thread about a bad probe is also spun as an attack on bernie freaking sanders. Flunky posted:i hope the site staff stays aware of the discussions surrounding china both here and elsewhere on the site. the amount of forums bullshit surrounding the topic is only gonna get worse with the current political climate. idk what to do about any of it but it's not going away any time soon agreed
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Jun 26, 2021 00:40
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Barreft posted:Covid thread is BAD. I agree there. Maybe the covid thread should have an IK that actually gives a poo poo about it, rather than a joke IK appointed randomly by Jeffrey and who has never done any actual IK moderation of the thread whenever it's derailed by either sinophobic weirdos, delusional nate silver-brained anti-science types, or horny doctors looking to bang hinge honeys in YOUR area.
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Jun 26, 2021 00:43
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I think it's one thing to say to someone, when you're actually seeing it going on: "why don't you cool it for a bit, I don't think obsessively posting is doing you any good," and another thing where people say, for example: "cspam ought to be shut down, for their own good, because posting is making them mentally ill" And I wouldn't want it made into a rule, but like, if you're calling people mentally ill it'd be good if either you're doing it as an obvious joke, or alternatively you really mean it. It's not a great way to deal with people that are just pissing you off.
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Jun 26, 2021 00:48
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ram dass in hell posted:Maybe the covid thread should have an IK that actually gives a poo poo about it, rather than a joke IK appointed randomly by Jeffrey and who has never done any actual IK moderation of the thread whenever it's derailed by either sinophobic weirdos, delusional nate silver-brained anti-science types, or horny doctors looking to bang hinge honeys in YOUR area. There's like a core group of 3 people and if you don't say you're wearing a full gasmask you're poo poo on. That thread needs help.
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Jun 26, 2021 00:49
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tbh i would personally like the admins in thread to address the pretty constant issues of mods and admins circling around poo poo loving terrible mods when they make poo poo loving terrible decisions that piss everyone off. Part of the reason why people are so loving super hostile to mod action, even to the point of harming the sub-forum, is because the memories of Lowtax and Flavius and the debacle with the under cover nazi mod and the hardcore banning of those who called him out are still p. fresh in everyone's minds.\ Some kind of reconciliation and attempt to bridge that gap about that poo poo, rather than push it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen, would probably help build a lot more trust on the user side of things
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Jun 26, 2021 00:51
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Barreft posted:There's like a core group of 3 people and if you don't say you're wearing a full gasmask you're poo poo on. That thread needs help. I post in there all the time and I wear a mask over a beard at most and haven't had a fight about it. Maybe the problem is people coming in and calling people mentally ill for wearing the mask who arent prepared for the obvious pushback and instead mash that report button or run to QCS
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Jun 26, 2021 00:54
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Epic High Five posted:I post in there all the time and I wear a mask over a beard at most and haven't had a fight about it. Maybe the problem is people coming in and calling people mentally ill for wearing the mask who arent prepared for the obvious pushback and instead mash that report button or run to QCS I haven't. I still wear a mask. I'm just saying I've seen them run people out, that's all. Trying to be honest.
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Jun 26, 2021 00:56
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:"have we filled the voluntary staff here with vindictive pieces of poo poo?" Ooh I know the answer to this one! yes
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Jun 26, 2021 01:01
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Link me the covid thread, I'll head over there right now and ask them for IK suggestions Edit: I didn't see it going 3 or so pages back
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Jun 26, 2021 01:05
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Athanatos posted:Link me the covid thread, I'll head over there right now and ask them for IK suggestions Thank you, it's https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3926175&pagenumber=6135&perpage=40
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Jun 26, 2021 01:06
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Barreft posted:I haven't. I still wear a mask. And I think you'll find a commonality among a lot of them is that they aren't prepared to deal with a thread culture that's still taking it seriously or - as is often the case - ever took it seriously and doesn't believe there's a rugged individualist answer. The COVID is over people have all the rest of the internet to post in, I will never understand why the CSPAM thread existing makes people who don't even read it or post in it so mad Basically, it comes down to "I'm not gonna wear a respirator, I feel like it's overkill" isn't gonna get you dogpiled - that's my own stance and I've been posting there since last February - but the people who actually complain and I suspect spam reports aren't leaving it there. Hell I've even made fun of people for min/maxing their setups but everybody knows it's in good fun because i'm not obviously there to pick a fight THAT SAID, I don't know how much the COVID thread even has to do with anything beyond larry taking a pot shot at the posters there for no reason, unless it's clarified that it's the source of a lot of reports, so I have no idea how useful this discussion actually is
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Jun 26, 2021 01:14
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mcclay posted:tbh i would personally like the admins in thread to address the pretty constant issues of mods and admins circling around poo poo loving terrible mods when they make poo poo loving terrible decisions that piss everyone off. Part of the reason why people are so loving super hostile to mod action, even to the point of harming the sub-forum, is because the memories of Lowtax and Flavius and the debacle with the under cover nazi mod and the hardcore banning of those who called him out are still p. fresh in everyone's minds.\ Best case scenario on mods is you pick someone who posts in the community and knows what the vibe is. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesnt. SA is not a small place, there are 76 forums, and the vast majority have no issues with their mods and just kind of truck along. In the past, we've picked mods the same way we pick mods in every other forum. That's why I'm here right now, to find something that works for CSPAM. CSPAM is large, finding people who understand the entire place seems to be a folly. If you read my posts earlier, I suggest a lot of IKs, and leaving Mods as people who check in on IKs and see if they need anything. Maybe that is the answer, maybe it sucks. gently caress if I know. I'll admit if I gently caress something up. I don't know what else you want me to do or say. If you have something specific you want me to answer, I'm here.
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Jun 26, 2021 01:17
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Epic High Five posted:THAT SAID, I don't know how much the COVID thread even has to do with anything beyond larry taking a pot shot at the posters there for no reason, unless it's clarified that it's the source of a lot of reports, so I have no idea how useful this discussion actually is I mean, gently caress it, I'm here and can maybe fix things. Might as well throw things at me while I am. I asked the thread, if they want someone, they can have it. If they are fine with their space, that's on them. I did the same thing for the Glenn Greenwald thread a while back. The overwhelming majority of PMs I got did not want an IK. They liked their thread as is, and rolled with it. I can't pull stats for individual threads reports, I'd have to ask the CSPAM mods if it's reported more often.
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Jun 26, 2021 01:20
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i don't know why everyone keeps taking my examples so literally. you know what I mean. people who cake on the hyperbole too thick and then wrap it in irony and lovely catch phrases to the point that it's unreadable. tman used to post like this a lot, but there's like 100 white noise people that do the same. i don't have a recent example on deck cuz personally once I see too many of those posts in a row I just stop reading the thread forever lol.
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Jun 26, 2021 01:43
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gudetama posted:One thing that I think is kind of offensive in the way people talk about CSPAM is the idea that "doomposting is making people mentally ill." Not only is armchair diagnosis hosed up and never catches a punishment, but it can actually help people feel more sane to see other people taking issues with the correct level of gravity. For some people in other forums, it makes them feel more sane to go out of their way to be overly positive and try to squeeze the most charitable possible interpretation out of news stories. It's almost like there are multiple ways to blow of some steam when it comes to posting about the news - it's weird that the toxic positivity liberals have decided this gives them the right to diagnose other posters with mental illness. Very much agree and would add the CPSAM mental health thread is non-ironically a good support resource for goons.
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Jun 26, 2021 01:52
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i like doomsday economics
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Jun 26, 2021 02:21
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might be biased tho
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Jun 26, 2021 02:21
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really queer Christmas posted:I'm going to agree with you, and say it's better for mods to be hand on in steering it towards positive subjects rather than heavy handed like I suggested. I havent peered in that thread since early in the pandemic Then why are you trying to suggest how to moderate it?
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Jun 26, 2021 02:25
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