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VideoGameVet posted:It’s not so much nationalize, but more directing and replicating the French model which worked. I think 'worked' is a strong claim: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421516300106 France saw lower cost escalation over their build-out than the US, but still managed to see costs rise over their deployment programme. There are a number of explanations for this that the paper covers, but having the Government constantly whispering in the ear of the industry doesn't help. Witness the UK's AGRs, built at the behest of the Government rather than the central planner, which the paper doesn't cover as I think we're still too embarrassed to share costs. Out of all the nations that have done nuclear without being happy to sacrifice workers to the Mighty Atom, South Korea is the only one where you can definitely say what they did worked. What they did was start building later than the West, benefitting from existing R&D, and stamp out a standardised design. You could absolutely do that in the West (planning consent permitting), but we appear to be addicted to novel reactor design.
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Jun 11, 2021 09:11
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Aethernet posted:You could absolutely do that in the West (planning consent permitting), but we appear to be addicted to novel reactor design. I mean, more logically the unique design stems from the desire to make every plant you build the Best Plant Ever, but it's more terrifying/fun to think of the fact that everyone working at a nuke plant took a coke break during lunch.
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Jun 11, 2021 15:45
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Well we had to drag American Automakers kicking and screaming into the modern Industrial era, its not really suprising that even Nuclear construction hasn't seen the light on standardized parts. Someone get the Japanese on the phone. Ironically, the Russians are the closest to a true assembly line for reactors with the VVER series and Atommash CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 15:56
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Trabisnikof posted:You're citing a book published in 1980, which by its very nature misses what has happened in the last 40 years. Thank you for posting this. We’re never going to get new reactors unless this issue is addressed. There’s more profit in a failed build than one that works. Also, we can stop blaming the hippies for this mess.
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Jun 11, 2021 16:56
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VideoGameVet posted:Also, we can stop blaming the hippies for this mess. Eh, they still share a large amount of the blame, at least the Boomers do: Years of Anti-Nuclear mythos and endless desire to be "Cheap, cheap, cheap" undermined any progress we might have made.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:01
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CommieGIR posted:Eh, they still share a large amount of the blame, at least the Boomers do: Years of Anti-Nuclear mythos and endless desire to be "Cheap, cheap, cheap" undermined any progress we might have made. This is like the “Thanks Obama” memes. Nothing the ‘hippies’ or the rest of the anti-nuke crowd did has anything to do with the V.C Summer story posted above. It’s pure grift.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:09
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CommieGIR posted:Eh, they still share a large amount of the blame, at least the Boomers do: Years of Anti-Nuclear mythos and endless desire to be "Cheap, cheap, cheap" undermined any progress we might have made. Like much in the United States, it's difficult to gauge how much public sentiment actually affects public policy. Some studies indicate that statistically it has virtually no impact at all, though nuclear power might be an exception to that due to special circumstances.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:15
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VideoGameVet posted:This is like the “Thanks Obama” memes. Nothing the ‘hippies’ or the rest of the anti-nuke crowd did has anything to do with the V.C Summer story posted above.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:27
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:In that sense it's comparable to all the other public construction project failures in the US and Europe over the last twenty years. Poor planning, a design that's unnecessarily complicated, cost overruns not actually hurting the bottom line of the contractors. At a minimum, there should be an overrun threshold above which the contractor gets audited and the profit in the contract is reduced to zero. There should be penalties for this and if there were bonuses paid to execs during that period, even criminal prosecutions.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:53
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Phan, if you're going to debate with people dude, at least do them the courtesy of reading the entirety of their post in order, goddamn.
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Jun 11, 2021 18:08
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Kaal posted:Like much in the United States, it's difficult to gauge how much public sentiment actually affects public policy. Some studies indicate that statistically it has virtually no impact at all, though nuclear power might be an exception to that due to special circumstances. Didn't voters in Nevada prevent the Yucca Mountain Nuclear Storage despite being entirely environmentally sound and safe?
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Jun 11, 2021 18:50
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Didn't voters in Nevada prevent the Yucca Mountain Nuclear Storage despite being entirely environmentally sound and safe? My understanding is that Harry Reid opposed it personally rather than due to any public initiative. Of course this sort of thing is difficult to parse specifically.
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Jun 11, 2021 19:08
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https://twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1403580304904704001?s=20
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Jun 12, 2021 23:47
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It's like a gigantic lightbulb frying birds like moths.
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Jun 12, 2021 23:52
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I just love how the right wingers have suddenly transformed into John F-Ing Audubon when it comes to bird deaths from wind and solar. Ignoring that burning coal and skyscrapers kill magnitudes more ... not to mention these guys:  Data: 
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Jun 13, 2021 16:21
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When government agencies and others make these predictions that solar electricity will become 15-20% of the electricity generated in the US in 2050, I think they are envisioning solar cells/solar photovoltaic, and not these kinds of concentrated solar power plants. I don't think they are going to be building more Ivanpah-type plants.
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Jun 13, 2021 18:52
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VideoGameVet posted:
My home kills at least 2-3 birds a year. 
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Jun 13, 2021 19:14
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VideoGameVet posted:I just love how the right wingers have suddenly transformed into John F-Ing Audubon when it comes to bird deaths from wind and solar. Its just as well these sort of plants are not even competing with Silicon PVs anymore, they are horribly inefficient compared to even them. And yes, cats are big problem, agreed. The point was that Green energy has its own environmental costs, and that point remains true. If you follow the thread too, there are people openly ignorant defending using Deserts for PV as "They are lifeless" which not only false but incredibly ignorant.
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Jun 13, 2021 19:20
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CommieGIR posted:Its just as well these sort of plants are not even competing with Silicon PVs anymore, they are horribly inefficient compared to even them. Everything has an environmental cost, but it’s false equivalency to compare wind/solar to what coal and skyscrapers (and kitties) do to birds. Also these are the same people who wanted to cook Spotted Owls as a political statement.
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Jun 13, 2021 23:20
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CommieGIR posted:Its just as well these sort of plants are not even competing with Silicon PVs anymore, they are horribly inefficient compared to even them. The main difference is price, where PV has plummeted for more than a decade while solar thermal has not. And the need for storage hasn’t put enough price pressure on systems to make up for PVs cost advantage.
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Jun 14, 2021 02:10
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OK, I am not a D&D guy, and a lot of this thread is over my head, but this seemed like a good place to ask: https://twitter.com/mattlargey/status/1404498195795828746 A bunch of power stations are down for maintenance during an energy shortage in Texas. Is this the same thing Enron did? Shutting down a bunch of plants for "maintenance?" I don't know enough about how it works in Texas to know if that benefits them monetarily.
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Jun 14, 2021 22:48
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In the case of Texas, its hard to say where the sheer incompetence ends and where the malicious intent begins.
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Jun 15, 2021 00:45
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ERCOT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV-p_-OvUnA Edit: A friend asks why this didn't happen last summer or the summer before. Grouchio fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 00:52
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Because the executives in charge figure they have an impossibly bad image after the winter storm earlier this year and may as well do as much corruption as possible before jumping out of the plane with a golden parachute
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Jun 15, 2021 01:14
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https://twitter.com/egyp7/status/1404646065865900045?s=20 https://twitter.com/Dr_Keefer/status/1407359116666982405?s=20 CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jun 22, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 15:08
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A quick bump: https://twitter.com/nuclearny/status/1407365737690415114?s=20
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Jun 22, 2021 17:00
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Natural gas got its name from being compared to coal gasification products, which were artificial. Since coal is also a fossil fuel, Town Gas (as it was called in the UK) was also essentially a fossil gas. Since the more obvious contemporary contrast is bio-derived hydrocarbons, fossil gas could be used - but it would also apply to blue hydrogen, which is derived from NG. Therefore something more specific like Planet Murder Gas should apply.
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Jun 22, 2021 17:31
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I noted the charge for the decommissioning of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station on my electric bill this month. Why am I paying for SDG&E and PG&E's mistakes?
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Jun 22, 2021 18:50
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Aethernet posted:Natural gas got its name from being compared to coal gasification products, which were artificial. Since coal is also a fossil fuel, Town Gas (as it was called in the UK) was also essentially a fossil gas. I think it's fine to also call blue hydrogen fossil gas
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Jun 22, 2021 19:39
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QuarkJets posted:I think it's fine to also call blue hydrogen fossil gas I mean you can, it just makes it harder to tell what you're talking about.
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Jun 22, 2021 20:19
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Aethernet posted:I mean you can, it just makes it harder to tell what you're talking about. To be honest it's unclear why there should be any particular distinction. "Blue Hydrogen" is just normal Fossil Gas with carbon capture and storage. CCS can be used with any form of fossil fuel, including coal. In fact you can make hydrogen by processing coal almost as easily as you can make it from fossil gas. If there's a misnomer here, it is in associating blue hydrogen with any particular fossil fuel source rather than all of them. Kaal fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jun 22, 2021 |
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Jun 22, 2021 20:28
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VideoGameVet posted:I noted the charge for the decommissioning of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station on my electric bill this month.
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Jun 22, 2021 20:31
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VideoGameVet posted:I noted the charge for the decommissioning of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station on my electric bill this month. Didn’t they have a giant pile of money set aside for decommissioning? All the Exelon nuclear plants have a decommissioning fund that is supposedly like $1billion each. I am sure they are playing all kinds of fun games with that money, and not just letting it sit there though. That is supposedly the whole reason Exelon went on a nuclear buying spree, to get their hands on the decommissioning funds, and some sort of hand wavy market efficiencies. Oh, and payments from the states to keep the high paying jobs associated with clean energy around.
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Jun 22, 2021 20:39
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Kaal posted:To be honest it's unclear why there should be any particular distinction. "Blue Hydrogen" is just normal Fossil Gas with carbon capture and storage. CCS can be used with any form of fossil fuel, including coal. In fact you can make hydrogen by processing coal almost as easily as you can make it from fossil gas. If there's a misnomer here, it is in associating blue hydrogen with any particular fossil fuel source rather than all of them. I suppose it depends on the domain we're talking about. For the purposes of comms and campaigns, "Fossil gas" could refer to NG, blue and grey hydrogen, fossil-derived syngas or any other fossil-based gaseous product. For policy and engineering, you'd want to refer to the actual chemical, and if appropriate, its production pathway.
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Jun 22, 2021 20:57
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Orvin posted:Didn’t they have a giant pile of money set aside for decommissioning? All the Exelon nuclear plants have a decommissioning fund that is supposedly like $1billion each. I am sure they are playing all kinds of fun games with that money, and not just letting it sit there though. That is supposedly the whole reason Exelon went on a nuclear buying spree, to get their hands on the decommissioning funds, and some sort of hand wavy market efficiencies. Oh, and payments from the states to keep the high paying jobs associated with clean energy around. Decommissioning is funded by a small surcharge paid by consumers over the lifetime of the plant in their power bills. Plant decommissioned early means the fund isn't full (plus the cost will always rise above expectations). So PG&E goes to the CA regulators and asks "hey can we raise rates to pay for decommissioning" and since it's basically a revolving door between regulators and the industry they go "sure, have at it."
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Jun 22, 2021 21:13
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https://scitechdaily.com/nuclear-batteries-offer-a-new-approach-to-carbon-free-energy/amp/ Micronukes are one of my favourite potential solutions as a heat source for heat networks in dense urban environments, despite their obvious public acceptability challenges! They're much more likely than large scale nukes to lower in cost, thanks to efficiencies mass production can offer. If only someone was brave enough to start a market for them...
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Jun 26, 2021 17:46
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Aethernet posted:https://scitechdaily.com/nuclear-batteries-offer-a-new-approach-to-carbon-free-energy/amp/ There's some hope for that, but I think most of the community really behind things like SMRs right now, but Micronuclear Batteries could be a good thing for energy storage solutions and using high level waste in effective energy generating methods.
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Jun 26, 2021 17:59
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“This way it becomes sort of energy on demand. If the customer wants either heat or electricity, they can get it within a couple of months, or even weeks, and then it’s plug and play. This machine arrives on the site, and just a few days later, you start getting your energy. “ Site licensing alone takes longer than that.
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Jun 26, 2021 18:54
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Phanatic posted:“This way it becomes sort of energy on demand. If the customer wants either heat or electricity, they can get it within a couple of months, or even weeks, and then it’s plug and play. This machine arrives on the site, and just a few days later, you start getting your energy. “ Yup, there is that, and that's a major barrier that would likely means this never happens.
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Jun 26, 2021 19:13
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Phanatic posted:“This way it becomes sort of energy on demand. If the customer wants either heat or electricity, they can get it within a couple of months, or even weeks, and then it’s plug and play. This machine arrives on the site, and just a few days later, you start getting your energy. “ Yeah, planning and licencing regimes are an impediment. I think the idea is that you can mount one literally on a truck though, which is subject to a different set of permissions that can be centralised. This could be a solution for event power, rather than diesel gens. Of course, for bigger installations you'd need an actual planning application and a nuke licence. There's probably a solid argument for having different licencing regimes for different tiers of risk, though.
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Jun 26, 2021 20:26
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