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I don't think CSPAM is a politics forum anymore, it was a place to gawk to stupid poo poo (like Trump) which are tangentially related to politics, and it's in a good place where it's at. Recycle the chat/trump thread (whatever you want to call it monthly) and go from there, there is literally zero cost to entry to post there and don't if you don't like how it goes on any given day, give it a few hours and come back, I don't see it as an issue at all.
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Jun 26, 2021 21:23
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I still really don't get why Squizzle has buttons tbh.
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Jun 26, 2021 21:24
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It really does feel like every argument of people posting wrong loops back around to "I'm not going to make a thread of what I want and I don't have the force of personality to convince people to agree with me and talk about what I want"
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Jun 26, 2021 21:24
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Gumball Gumption posted:It really does feel like every argument of people posting wrong loops back around to "I'm not going to make a thread of what I want and I don't have the force of personality to convince people to agree with me and talk about what I want" you just need to post your breakfast more
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Jun 26, 2021 21:25
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Plinkey posted:I don't think CSPAM is a politics forum anymore, it was a place to gawk to stupid poo poo (like Trump) which are tangentially related to politics, and it's in a good place where it's at. It definitely is, we are used to it and consider it normal but its Overton window is shockingly left for online spaces and there basically isnt anything else like it even in the dedicated spaces of actual socialist orgs
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Jun 26, 2021 21:25
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Mischievous Mink posted:I still really don't get why Squizzle has buttons tbh. Anyone who has given me more than a 6 hour probation? Strip them of their buttons
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Jun 26, 2021 21:26
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croup coughfield posted:a concrete example of leftists congregating to discuss an ostensibly non-political subject in a political light is pener's games thread. it started out pretty great, discussing something a lot of people are interested in specifically from a standpoint of how cultural artifacts reflect politics and ideology. i havent read it in awhile so i dont know if its still that way, but that to me is what a "non-political" subject being discussed in a political forum should look like. it should have a specific subject of discussion that is directly linked to actual politics, even if the subject itself is not necessarily political. chat threads start out off-topic in a non-chat forum. thank you for answering because I wasn’t sure specifically what you envisioned. croup coughfield posted:if you need a special place to post what you had for breakfast where you have been assured it will only be read and responded to by people who share your views on tree law then you dont need a forum, you need a doctor. that’s obviously not what I was getting at and you know it. people like to discuss topics beyond simply politics with those they share some common ground with, not exclusively with those people. frankly, what you (and at least one other equally-abrasive poster) are suggesting as some kind of more focused vision of this forum sounds like it would strangle out the kinds of natural community that leftists want (and should want) to develop. this kind of dogged push towards only the purest expressions of ideology seems needlessly restrictive and antithetical to the idea of a forum for discussion and community. if there is to be any subforum of CSPAM, it should be one that could be laser focused on the kind of thing you want, but it can and should only exist as an appendage of the larger body of CSPAM as a whole.
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Jun 26, 2021 21:26
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Epic High Five posted:It definitely is, we are used to it and consider it normal but its Overton window is shockingly left for online spaces and there basically isnt anything else like it even in the dedicated spaces of actual socialist orgs I mean, the other problem is that everything is political now
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Jun 26, 2021 21:27
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mastershakeman posted:Anyone who has given me more than a 6 hour probation? Strip them of their buttons Actually I think mods who call users rapists without any justification should have their buttons stripped. I don't believe I've had even a sixer from them myself?
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Jun 26, 2021 21:27
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Plinkey posted:I mean, the other problem is that everything is political now It always has been. Everything now is just more immediate and harder to wave away
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Jun 26, 2021 21:28
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If you open a thread and put your serious rules at the top in between two  smiles the mods are obligated to enforce them.
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Jun 26, 2021 21:29
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Plinkey posted:I mean, the other problem is that everything is political now this handily solves the problem of what can and cannot be posted in CSPAM, then. everything is political so everything can be posted. problem solved.
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Jun 26, 2021 21:30
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Mischievous Mink posted:Actually I think mods who call users rapists without any justification should have their buttons stripped. I don't believe I've had even a sixer from them myself? I have some thoughts and questions about this as the person effected but I always seem to be ignored by the mods and admins. strange
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Jun 26, 2021 21:30
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dead gay comedy forums posted:c'mon, no need for bad faith i get what you're saying and in the organizations with which i work we do the same thing. however, this is, as you say, and internet forum, and not a local organization. if you just want to post about gardening and not tie it into the actual politics then post about it in the gardening forum, not the political forum. if someone breaks out in hives over how unsafe they feel posting about their petunias in the gardening forum they should log the gently caress off Plinkey posted:I don't think CSPAM is a politics forum anymore yes this is exactly my complaint
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Jun 26, 2021 21:30
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looking at the posting analytics and then deciding that you need to means test posts to properly sort them and determine who belongs in c-spam is the most lib brained poo poo ever and the kind of talk that proves you dont belong in c-spam. just completely out of your element
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Jun 26, 2021 21:31
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Red Baron posted:this handily solves the problem of what can and cannot be posted in CSPAM, then.
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Jun 26, 2021 21:31
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cumshitter posted:looking at the posting analytics and then deciding that you need to means test posts to properly sort them and determine who belongs in c-spam is the most lib brained poo poo ever and the kind of talk that proves you dont belong in c-spam. just completely out of your element also sounds boring as gently caress
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Jun 26, 2021 21:32
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croup coughfield posted:i get what you're saying and in the organizations with which i work we do the same thing. however, this is, as you say, and internet forum, and not a local organization. if you just want to post about gardening and not tie it into the actual politics then post about it in the gardening forum, not the political forum. if someone breaks out in hives over how unsafe they feel posting about their petunias in the gardening forum they should log the gently caress off what if you are gardening to feed your commune of one?
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Jun 26, 2021 21:32
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i, for one, am glad that anthanos and shine came into this thread so that fluffdaddy could permaban someone cool website.
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Jun 26, 2021 21:33
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ive said id like the chat thread in cccc, because thats the forum for chat threads where people can post with their pals and not have other people have a big opinion about it. if you ask people what their vision of the forum is, some are gonna say theyd rather not have a kind of self contained chat thread where people post poll site mascots getting their rear end blasted loosely associated with them for posting here, and stuff like that. im not saying posting weird poo poo with your pals is like, putting you beneath my wonderful 2k word posts about loving bullshit, just that there is a place, for that, and its cccc. but i also dont want people to feel like its an exile or some hater thing, like id want them to have their chat thread there, without feeling like they're now Less CSPAM than before or whatever, i dont want to start some umbrage laden pissing match or make people feel unwanted, its just if you wanna post your in jokes and poo poo in a place where nobody will ever dispute the presence of your pal around zone then there's cccc IM JUST SAYIN' i do follow the advice of just not reading the thread but if i see that style of posting in other places boy howdy i will have An Opinion and probably voice it in a feedback zone and you better watch out for that i guess
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Jun 26, 2021 21:33
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HookedOnChthonics posted:and yeah the only good argument for moving the trump thread would be to give every single one of its posters buttons without interfering with the rest of c-spam i just don't really know what to say. trump thread is certainly one of the highest-traffic threads, and it's a series of threads that has been around since the beginning. of course it has pretty deep roots in the community. i don't think that acknowledging its history and relative popularity is somehow diminishing other threads, or encouraging people not to check out the many other great threads in cspam. nor do i think that posting there often or occasionally should disqualify anybody from having buttons; if they don't post anywhere else, then yeah, that might be an issue. the same goes for the succ zone or any other popular megathread. i don't think it's a competition. many threads are worth reading and nobody is saying otherwise lol, the antagonism you perceive from these "individual posters" isn't actually there.
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Jun 26, 2021 21:33
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Red Baron posted:this handily solves the problem of what can and cannot be posted in CSPAM, then. Thinking of making a CSPAM computer hardware thread
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Jun 26, 2021 21:33
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cumshitter posted:looking at the posting analytics and then deciding that you need to means test posts to properly sort them and determine who belongs in c-spam is the most lib brained poo poo ever and the kind of talk that proves you dont belong in c-spam. just completely out of your element send me your charts and i'll see what i can do with some machine learning
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Jun 26, 2021 21:33
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Oh Snapple! posted:Why is this lovely retaliatory perma that everyone on the site knows was a lovely retaliatory perma still being enforced lol Because no one actually likes dickeye enough to make a QCS thread about it
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Jun 26, 2021 21:33
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gradenko_2000 posted:Thinking of making a CSPAM computer hardware thread I'd post there
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Jun 26, 2021 21:34
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Plinkey posted:send me your charts and i'll see what i can do with some machine learning just pm'd you screen grabs of my google sheet
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Jun 26, 2021 21:35
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some plague rats posted:Because no one actually likes dickeye enough to make a QCS thread about it there's been multiple threads, but go off king
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Jun 26, 2021 21:35
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Good morning, 500'ish new posts! I'm gonna close this so that I can catch up on stuff. I'll open it back up in a few hours. In the meantime, you're welcome to PM me anything that can't wait or that you'd rather say in private. Thanks!
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Jun 26, 2021 21:35
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Bearjew posted:I'd post there same
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Jun 26, 2021 21:36
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Alrighty, gonna post some observations, and then open the thread back up. Sorry for  . These aren't necessarily "action items," because I don't view this endeavor as "become a C-SPAM expert in 2 days and then make sweeping changes to the community," but more me trying to get an idea of how folks feel about the forum so that I have more context for the inevitible times that I'm asked to assist a mod with C-SPAM matters (and I simply don't have time to engross myself in the forum; as I noted, I'm more a "background" admin and barely have time to keep up with threads I love in other forums).- Part of the appeal here versus D&D is the relaxed nature of the rules, so there's less focus on MLA formatting, and more focus on discussion matters using whatever words are felt appropriate for the situation, even if they aren't "decorum." It's also seen as a "safe space" for leftism and a general discussion space for leftist posters (ex. "I want to bullshit about growing tomatoes with my buddies, not with 'the experts' for help in DIY"). - Some threads aren't distinctly leftist or about leftists. There are some mixed feelings about this, but most folks either like that, or at least don't mind. - Some threads are seen as "chat threads" that are overly insular and sources of drama, forum feuds, Making Posting Enemies, etc. Personally I'm not into threads that function as essentially a forums-based Discord, but as long as they aren't leading to dumb drama, I don't have a strong opinion on them being here versus CCCC or wherever. I acknowledge that "as long as they aren't leading to dumb drama" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. - There's a line between "shitposting" and "posting casually, but still being interesting." Personally, I much prefer the latter; spamming catchphrases and played-out jokes (drnald thrunjp lol) isn't very interesting to me. I sympathize with the folks who prefer that even casual posting still go by the ancient SA standard of being "funny, informative, or interesting on any level," but I also think it's tricky for mods to enforce that in a relaxed rules forum, at least in a way that the community at large will agree is fair and consistent. So that strikes me as more a standard that a community needs to coalesce around or agree to disagree on, and some threads will lean more toward more serious tones, and others toward silly poo poo, and the thread IKs can deal with that as they see appropriate. But again, I'm not laying down the law on this, and it may be worth a mod posting a thread to discuss this specifically with the community and go from there. - Related to the previous point, there was some poo poo about beef poof for like 2 pages, and my eyes glazed over reading about it because it was boring and unfunny, so I have no comment on whatever that was. - Some mods have been seen as out of touch with C-SPAM's various subcultures, as they were picked from major megathreads. They then moderate other threads in a manner that clashes with the established tone and direction of that thread, and the thread regulars there are like, "who the gently caress are you, anyway?" I think it would benefit us to do a more crowdsourced approach to picking mods and IKs here, having mods nominated and hased out who overlap several major threads. Thoughts? - Most here tend to favor a light hand in moderation, which makes sense for a relaxed rules forum. Issues that I see coming up here/in PM that people generally agree should be moderated are: slurs (including racial, sexual, and ableist), excessive dogpiles/bullying, and untagged NSFW. For "relaxed rules" forums, I think this covers most modding bases. Then you get into more subjective things like "useless white noise" and such. - The dogpiling/bullying stuff is important to keep an eye on, but it's tricky because it's also pretty subjective. There are times when a person is being a dipshit and I feel that having the thread call them a dipshit is warranted (like how the YLLS General Thread has treated dogmatic Low Carbers over the years); but I can also see the concern with twitter'esque dogpiling of someone because they said something at odds with thread regulars' opinions, and instead of a discussion and exchange of ideas and perspectives, the "LET'S GET 'EM" stuff happens. At a glance, this is where I think mods/IKs (and posters!!!) with a knack for de-escalating without buttons can help, but "cool off" sixers, or maybe harsher probes for notorious poo poo-stirrers may be needed. - On that note, I'm generally a fan of communities sorting out spats themselves, and mods mostly leading by example; course-correcting with posts instead of buttons (or posting explicit threats to push buttons, which I also think is usually counterproductive). That said, I've never moderated giant, busy forums, so it's easy for me to say that as someone who just glances at YLLS and says "yup, still no reports this month" and only sometimes has to nudge threads in a more productive direction when things get too shitposty, whereas C-SPAM got like 40 reports just yesterday (most of which from people who post in C-SPAM, so it's not a "D&D lurkers trying to barge in" thing). I'd love to see more "let the community sort itself out" and have mods mostly step in to say "okay, we need to move on, y'all are going in circles over [whatever] and everybody has said what they have to say," and only use buttons when it's either a "very much against the rules" thing, or the mod otherwise feels things have gotten too far into "these are just bad posts" land. - Moderating something as a "bad post" requires a lot of community trust, hence why I think crowdsourcing mods would be especially good in C-SPAM. A risk of light-handed moderation is that threads can sometimes become very insular and toxic, perhaps getting a "holier than thou" attitude toward the rest of the forum, which then spills out and leads to slapfights where mods feel compelled to use a firmer hand than usual, which then bumps against "this is a relaxed rules forum; why are you modding conversations?" and leads to backlash and stress. It's complicated, and I don't have an answer beyond "find mods that most of the community trusts, and let them do their thing." If anybody feels like I'm misreading the poo poo out of something, then please let me know. Again, I'm not here to make C-SPAM policy. I just want to have at least a serviceable idea of the going-ons here for those times when a C-SPAM mod asks an admin for something (or a C-SPAM poster PMs me with concerns about modding).
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Jun 27, 2021 02:03
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Incidentally, I received several PMs about the Squizzle/A Loving Dog incident. I looked at those posts, and they sucked. We've removed Squizzle as a mod. I posted earlier that mods antagonizing posters is generally something to avoid, and that post (and the non-apology follow-up) was out of line. Mods antagonizing posters has been part of SA's shtick for years (and I'm certainly guilty of having done it before, especially a decade ago when aggro modding was the norm), but we need to grow past that.
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Jun 27, 2021 02:04
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Shine posted:Incidentally, I received several PMs about the Squizzle/A Loving Dog incident. I looked at those posts, and they sucked. We've removed Squizzle as a mod. I posted earlier that mods antagonizing posters is generally something to avoid, and that post (and the non-apology follow-up) was out of line. Mods antagonizing posters has been part of SA's shtick for years (and I'm certainly guilty of having done it before, especially a decade ago when aggro modding was the norm), but we need to grow past that. shine on you crazy diamond
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Jun 27, 2021 02:08
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shine do you want feedback to your observations or just want us to all move on
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Jun 27, 2021 02:09
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Shine posted:Incidentally, I received several PMs about the Squizzle/A Loving Dog incident. I looked at those posts, and they sucked. We've removed Squizzle as a mod. I posted earlier that mods antagonizing posters is generally something to avoid, and that post (and the non-apology follow-up) was out of line. Mods antagonizing posters has been part of SA's shtick for years (and I'm certainly guilty of having done it before, especially a decade ago when aggro modding was the norm), but we need to grow past that. thanks for spending part of your Saturday here, some good came of it
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Jun 27, 2021 02:12
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Shine posted:- There's a line between "shitposting" and "posting casually, but still being interesting." Personally, I much prefer the latter; spamming catchphrases and played-out jokes (drnald thrunjp lol) isn't very interesting to me. I sympathize with the folks who prefer that even casual posting still go by the ancient SA standard of being "funny, informative, or interesting on any level," but I also think it's tricky for mods to enforce that in a relaxed rules forum, at least in a way that the community at large will agree is fair and consistent. So that strikes me as more a standard that a community needs to coalesce around or agree to disagree on, and some threads will lean more toward more serious tones, and others toward silly poo poo, and the thread IKs can deal with that as they see appropriate. But again, I'm not laying down the law on this, and it may be worth a mod posting a thread to discuss this specifically with the community and go from there.= I appreciate that you took the time to read our posts and then write down your thoughts. Just, personally, as someone who posts in the Trump/General GOP thread: nobody and nowhere, except for a few QCS threads harton made, is posting about peefing boofers or TorRMp poo poo outside of the trump/general GOP thread. Like, literally, nobody in the thread is going out like a Hare Krishna pressing flowers into people's hands on the street and saying "rmtump be with you." It seems to me like all the anger and drama about it comes from people who don't post there. And I would agree 100% in punishing people who did that poo poo outside the trump/GOP thread for being dumbasses but I really can't think of any situation. It's dumb, and purposely so, but it ain't creeping out and the people who are the loudest about how beefing should be banned never post there.
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Jun 27, 2021 02:12
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euphronius posted:shine do you want feedback to your observations or just want us to all move on By all means, give me the feedback, especially if you feel I'm really misreading people's words.
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Jun 27, 2021 02:14
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i say this with 100% conviction knowing harton has done more to enrich the lives of SA posters that glenn greenwald has ever done. im a glenn greenwald stan, but for harton. he is more real to anyone on this forum than glenn will ever be
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Jun 27, 2021 02:16
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hatred of chat threads and talk about clamping down on shitposting makes me think some people want cspam threads to be just like their reading groups: boring, humorless, and populated by 5 people how do you expect a leftist thread about current events to go without shitposting? the levels of "doomposting" would be even higher than the climate change thread. no one believes in or gives a poo poo about contemplating which politician or act of legislation will ~finally change things~. you don't need to exaustively deliberate dialectical theory to reach the same conclusions over and over again. besides, the Marxist thread actually ticks most of these boxes anyways if you want that poo poo (yes i actually read and enjoy that garbage)
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Jun 27, 2021 02:17
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We should bring back that event from years past where threads took vacations in other forums for a short period of time. Even if not widespread, it would be nice to see the Marxism thread moved to Coupons and Deals or BFC for a few days
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Jun 27, 2021 02:21
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Squizzle was good. sorry to see him go but I get it. the ALD thing was not great but I thought it was in the past. twoday and brutalistmcdonalds were very good mods. so was sheng-ji yang. and Capt. Mcclaine. I doubt they'd come back but I wanted to say it.
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