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Hellblazer187 posted:It was also just a false dilemma in the first place. Recreate the transporter mistake that creates Thomas Riker. Then you have Tuvix, Neeliz, and Tuvok. Then I suppose you have to acknowledge that the transporters can work as human being printers if you arrange the buffer memory correctly. And they don't want to acknowledge that. That planet was 70,000 light years away.
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Jun 29, 2021 04:29
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tmp had the best example of how horrific a transporter accident should be depicted
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Jun 29, 2021 04:30
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instead of "oh no he has different facial hair now" it should always be "fortunately what we got back didn't live long"
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Jun 29, 2021 04:32
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Mulaney Power Move posted:instead of "oh no he has different facial hair now" it should always be "fortunately what we got back didn't live long" They got back a Tuvix but it died before it could become a moral quandry.
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Jun 29, 2021 04:34
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i got this crazy star trek discovery idea...so, a fly ends up in the transporter beam right at the last minute...
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Jun 29, 2021 04:37
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there are layers upon layers of handwavium which state in no uncertain terms that it isn't replication. but really, transporters don't replicate people because the writers don't want to deal with the obvious ramifications. except then they kept making exceptions to that rule for one-off episodes.
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Jun 29, 2021 04:38
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Even if we posit that OK under normal circumstances it's technically not replication... it seems like they could pretty easily make it be replication if they needed/wanted it to be so. Edit: Or at least like, scan his brain and make a Tuvix hologram before you murder him? If the Picard robot is "really Picard" then that would be "really Tuvix." The Tuvix question is really kind of a fun moral dilema but I feel like with the technology they have they could sidestep all that if they really wanted to. Janeway killed Tuvix because she wanted him dead, not because he needed to die to save Tuvok and Neelix. Hellblazer187 fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jun 29, 2021 |
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Jun 29, 2021 04:40
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janeway being a psychopath explains a lot of the inconsistencies and outright plot holes of voyager, yes.
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Jun 29, 2021 04:49
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:there are layers upon layers of handwavium which state in no uncertain terms that it isn't replication. but really, transporters don't replicate people because the writers don't want to deal with the obvious ramifications. That's called out in the technical manual. And what other exceptions were there? Cause Riker is the only one that's actual duplication I can think of. The rest were things like "got turned into a kid" or "two into a monster" or poo poo like that.
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Jun 29, 2021 04:57
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They made a new Picard, I'm not sure how to treat that
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Jun 29, 2021 04:58
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Brawnfire posted:They made a new Picard, I'm not sure how to treat that Just ignore it, like the show deserves.
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Jun 29, 2021 04:58
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CainFortea posted:That's called out in the technical manual. Kirk get's duplicated into a good and evil version.
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Jun 29, 2021 05:00
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CainFortea posted:That's called out in the technical manual. The possibility has been known to exist of duplication for a while, but in all cases up to Thomas Riker, the technician was able to quickly fix the glitch before command staff became aware. It is the terrible burden that all transporter technicians share, and also why a phaser is required to be worn at all times while on duty.
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Jun 29, 2021 05:12
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Mulaney Power Move posted:
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Jun 29, 2021 06:31
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Hellblazer187 posted:It was also just a false dilemma in the first place. Recreate the transporter mistake that creates Thomas Riker. Then you have Tuvix, Neeliz, and Tuvok. Then I suppose you have to acknowledge that the transporters can work as human being printers if you arrange the buffer memory correctly. And they don't want to acknowledge that. Hellblazer187 posted:Kirk get's duplicated into a good and evil version. So from this I'm getting that transporters are printers and instead of Red Green Blue dot values, people are printed out using Good, Evil dot values. BUT WHAT IF THE TRANSPORTER RUNS OUT OF GOOD PRINTER INK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jun 29, 2021 07:01
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Hellblazer187 posted:Even if we posit that OK under normal circumstances it's technically not replication... it seems like they could pretty easily make it be replication if they needed/wanted it to be so. The supposed technowank that manuals have on this is that replicators don't do quantum-level duplication, so all of the cool poo poo and networks that make up our brain and nervous system and things like that isn't running and you just end up with a pile of dead flesh because the connections aren't properly there. It works in a transporter because the matter is quantum tunnelled to the new location and take their quantum states with them. quantum MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jun 29, 2021 |
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Jun 29, 2021 07:11
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FlamingLiberal posted:God Janeway is so ice cold at the end of that episode Prime evil Admiral material. edit: The Federation's abhorrence of cloning prevented them from even considering having their cake and eating it too. Snatch cellular material from Tuvix, do the transporter split, grow Tuvix 2.0 in a vat, watch Neelix not know what to do as he’s displaced by an interloper that does everything better than him. Automatic Slim fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Jun 29, 2021 |
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Jun 29, 2021 09:12
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There’s a going faction of people who don’t buy into “it's not replication” for transporter science. They are the flat earthers of the 24th century.
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Jun 29, 2021 09:18
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it would be harder to not duplicate a human than to duplicate one. just disable the bit where you clear the pattern buffer after transport and send them again
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Jun 29, 2021 11:21
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MikeJF posted:The supposed technowank that manuals have on this is that replicators don't do quantum-level duplication, so all of the cool poo poo and networks that make up our brain and nervous system and things like that isn't running and you just end up with a pile of dead flesh because the connections aren't properly there. It works in a transporter because the matter is quantum tunnelled to the new location and take their quantum states with them. You can't even copy quantum states because of the no cloning theorom, star trek transporters need Heisenberg compensators and all sorts of bs to get them to work, at least we know there's continuous consciousness when Barclay was seeing worm creatures in the transporter bean
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Jun 29, 2021 11:31
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Tiberius Christ posted:You can't even copy quantum states because of the no cloning theorom, star trek transporters need Heisenberg compensators and all sorts of bs to get them to work, at least we know there's continuous consciousness when Barclay was seeing worm creatures in the transporter bean  in order to get around the issue, rather than actively reading and storing structures in a traditional computer memory (which would require a destructive scan) the transporter entangles the structure and quantum state of the object being transported with pseudomatter in the transporter pattern buffer which retains it as a cohesive whole while the overall quantum system comprising the individual is induced to tunnel to the target location sounds good to me okay then
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Jun 29, 2021 |
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Jun 29, 2021 11:37
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We can all agree that the crew members who got their brains dumped into DS9's computer core are 100% dead though right, you can store memories digitally but a soul or whatever cant be stored in a computer. The Sisko et al from that episode onward are just copies with the digitized memories of the originals
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Jun 29, 2021 12:14
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Danaru posted:We can all agree that the crew members who got their brains dumped into DS9's computer core are 100% dead though right, you can store memories digitally but a soul or whatever cant be stored in a computer. The Sisko et al from that episode onward are just copies with the digitized memories of the originals
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Jun 29, 2021 12:46
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Splicer posted:OK so which Riker got the soul William. Thomas is a soulless husk whose existence spits in the face of God
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Jun 29, 2021 12:55
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Danaru posted:William. Thomas is a soulless husk whose existence spits in the face of God
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Jun 29, 2021 13:19
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dr_rat posted:So from this I'm getting that transporters are printers and instead of Red Green Blue dot values, people are printed out using Good, Evil dot values. This is how people get promoted to admiral.
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Jun 29, 2021 13:23
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Danaru posted:We can all agree that the crew members who got their brains dumped into DS9's computer core are 100% dead though right, you can store memories digitally but a soul or whatever cant be stored in a computer. The Sisko et al from that episode onward are just copies with the digitized memories of the originals that makes o'brien a copy of a copy of a copy based on the time he was cloned and died and the time he kept doing time slides because of the romulans orbiting the station
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Jun 29, 2021 13:59
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O'Brien being a faded overcopied wash of soulstuff makes sense
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Jun 29, 2021 14:06
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o'brien is actually a zimmerman mark 2
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Jun 29, 2021 14:09
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Alternate universe Harry Kim laughs at the idea of the soul!! Oh, what he wouldn't do to a Delaney sister...soulless things, terrible things.
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Jun 29, 2021 14:10
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The transporter only saves the soul in the pattern buffer, this is why tom riker turned evil, Will got his back on the return trip
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Jun 29, 2021 14:12
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Mulaney Power Move posted:that makes o'brien a copy of a copy of a copy based on the time he was cloned and died and the time he kept doing time slides because of the romulans orbiting the station The irish are born with nine souls, he was down to his last one by the end of DS9 which is why he decided to go back to Earth
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Jun 29, 2021 14:15
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GolfHole posted:o'brien is actually a zimmerman mark 2 "We'll take out all my charisma and stunning good looks-" "Doctor, there'll be nothing left!" "Oh you flatter me, holographic nurse in my feminized image! But of course there will be one thing left." *O'Brien hologram flickers on* "Please state the nature of the *sigh* engineering emergency." "Despair, yet remains."
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Jun 29, 2021 14:15
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"COMPUTER DELETE EEH" "Why does it yell that whenever we turn it on?"
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Jun 29, 2021 14:18
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Brawnfire posted:"We'll take out all my charisma and stunning good looks-" Lmao
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Jun 29, 2021 14:18
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Unlike the EMH, who loathes being sent to the void space when he's offline, the Emergency Engineering Hologram longs for the sweet nothingness of death.
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Jun 29, 2021 14:20
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The EMH was the opposite, he always complained people were forgetting to turn him off and made them give him the ability to do it
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Jun 29, 2021 14:22
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John Wick of Dogs posted:The EMH was the opposite, he always complained people were forgetting to turn him off and made them give him the ability to do it poo poo, you're right. I've created yet another voyager false memory.
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Jun 29, 2021 14:24
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Given he was built with a limited operating time forgetting to turn him off was an even bigger dick move than it seemed.
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Jun 29, 2021 14:26
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John Wick of Dogs posted:The EMH was the opposite, he always complained people were forgetting to turn him off and made them give him the ability to do it It was actually both. People leaving him on so he’s bored all day, and people shutting him off when he has work to do
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Jun 29, 2021 14:49
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