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H110Hawk posted:Pretty sure carrier mini split heat pumps are rebadged Mitsubishi units. Trane entered a partnership with Mitsu recently, and is now selling mitsu equipment with their badge, as well as providing parts and support for name brand Mitsu. I'm hoping this will make trane better, and not make Mitsu stuff worse. 
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Jun 18, 2021 21:57
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mini splits seem pretty impractical for cooling medium/large houses in actually hot climates, I'm a service tech in AZ and only see them for garages and sun rooms edit: if you want to make your own lovely diy ac your much better setting up an ice cooler and pump through some copper tubing ziptied to a box fan Ace of Baes fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jun 19, 2021 |
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Jun 19, 2021 06:48
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Motronic posted:The problem is that your unit is not set up like a commercial one like we use in the datacenters (almost definitely, can't be 100% sur of course). The way those are made puts the condenser coil in it's own sub-enclosure with it's own fan and two hoses, then the evap has it's own fan to circulate room air across it. The few home ones I've had apart had no real way of doing this outside of literally cutting the condenser out and extending the lineset because of how the units are packaged and that they are designed to share a single fan for both the condenser and the evap. There’s no diagrams in the manual so I guess I’d need to open it up to see if there’s a full separation here? 
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Jun 20, 2021 16:25
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Jaded Burnout posted:There’s no diagrams in the manual so I guess I’d need to open it up to see if there’s a full separation here? I could find a diagram either, but mmmm......looks promising. A lot more promising than what I typically see on those units. Definitely worth cracking the case open, because if it's what it looks like you should be able to easily fab up some sort of fresh air intake.
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Jun 20, 2021 16:34
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So, out of town for the weekend, and received an email from the smart thermostat that the AC seems to have broken - during the hours yesterday the AC was running (Northern CA, so it was in the high 90s/100s yesterday) the temperature only continued to climb in the house. Now, our AC isn't the best, and is pushing 15 years old, but it usually at least can maintain the high 70s, rather that letting it climb up over 90 inside. Came home today, and started doing some trouble shooting. The actual fan inside the house turns on and circulates air fine, but there is no temperature differential on the hard lines going into the heat exchanger inside. The condenser unit is a Payne PA13NR from 2007, and when I have the thermostat set to cool, it just sits out there and lightly hums, nothing else seems to happen. I can kickstart the fan with a stick, at which point it will get started and spin up to full speed - which I would think indicates a bad cap. Even with the fan running, there is still no temperature differential, so I assume the compressor also isn't running, and it appears from the schematic the same capacitor supports both the compressor and the fan. I pulled the service disconnect, opened the panel (and checked for no-voltage on the cap with a multimeter), and there is nothing obviously bulging/leaking with the capacitor although the lid has surface rust. Am I on the right track that the best course of action is to try a new capacitor? Anything else I should be trying/investigating first? Apologies for any wrong nomenclature - home HVAC is not something I have any real practical experience with. Thanks goons. edit: and if the cap is the answer, am I looking for anything beyond 60/5 uf, 370 VAC for a replacement? Or do I have to find a replacement based on the part number (97F9816)? I have no clue how specific these things are or if there are garbage brands/indicators to avoid. Even though the whole unit is old I'd rather not have to just replace the cap again in a year. Pics:    
ROJO fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 00:34
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If you have a multi meter that does ohms and capacitance, I would check the cap and make sure it's not the motor windings before you order a cap. set it to capacitance, disconnect all the wires (remember/write where they go) and measure C-H (60 ish) and C-F (5 ish). if these are ok you might want to measure the start windings to make sure they ohm ok. (not zero, not open) otherwise yes, capacitors are generic parts. any dual cap 60mfd /5mfd, 370 volts will work. more volts is better, but the cap rating must be the same.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:07
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MRC48B posted:If you have a multi meter that does ohms and capacitance, I would check the cap and make sure it's not the motor windings before you order a cap. Yeah my Fluke doesn't do capacitance unfortunately, but I can check the windings. Thanks.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:01
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A cap and contactor are both cheap enough that I'd just shotgun them both but I live sun-adjacent so if my heat pump isn't working I don't have the luxury of diagnostic time. I'm also assuming you've let things sit around long enough to cool down? When I had a bad cap that caused the outside fan to not start, the compressor went into thermal shutdown due to the lack of airflow.
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Jun 21, 2021 04:30
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A new capacitor got us up and running again - thanks goons!
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Jun 22, 2021 05:49
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I need a little advice picking from these 7 quotes I have for replacing the HVAC in my house: Issue: 1997 model York 5 ton unit AC has leaking schraeder valve and dying compressor. Leaking R22. Keeps burning out electrical legs. Not functioning at this time. Furnace is equally old, going to replace at same time. Coil is old slab style, located in the crawl space which is not up to local code. First HVAC company 'P1' comes in with following quote: 5 ton Rheem AC 14SEER 5 ton Rheem coil 5 ton Rheem furnace Air purifier necessary ductwork extensions $9500 Second HVAC company 'P2' comes in with the following tiered quotes (They want to move furnace out of house and into crawlspace): XV18 5 ton AC $8516 R410A 4TXCC 5 ton coil $1299 XC95MU Furnace $6519 XK1050 thermostat $695 (give me a loving break) Filter rack $100 Purge and pressure test $20 New supply and return $950 transition to existing $350 increase return air $200 New flue $550 New WHIP and disconnect $70 New gas shutoff $150 permit $45 duct clean and seal $3950 various materials $1405 labor $2800 new customer discount $1200 Tax $2573 Total $28962 same work, swap in XL18i 5to AC $7401 S9V2U Furnace $5580 Total $26707 same work, swap in XL16i 5ton AC $5791 Total $25160 same work swap in XR14 5 ton AC $2786 s9x1u Furnace $3384 Total $20192 Third company 'At' comes in with three quotes: Variable speed 5ton AC unit unit, surge protector, brand of AC determined by what's available first, furnace replaced, electrostatic filter installed $15119 Same as above with 'premium' 16-18 SEER AC unit $17318 Same as above with a 'supreme' 18-12 SEER AC unit $21928 Sorry if this is a mess, I'm at work and trying to phone transcribe off of PDFs. The opening 9500 seemed pretty high but wow, it really escalated. The cheapest package from 'At' is roughly the same equipment as the 'p1' quote with the electrostatic filter added and a much more robust warranty and support. Mrs Bastard is leaning toward that 'At' package, I'm undecided.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:25
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Are you in a really high cost of living area? Local companies to me advertise a complete 5ton change out for like 6 grand. Company P2 pricing is nutso in my opinion. I've had the best luck finding good companies via local social networking sites like an area FB group or Nextdoor.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:43
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tactlessbastard posted:The opening 9500 seemed pretty high but wow, it really escalated. So, you're willing to pay almost 50% more for that 'warranty and support'? You can buy a lot of service calls for the extra 5-6 thousand dollars. Personally, I'd get a few more quotes targeting similar equipment to the 'cheap' quote. 10 grand for a furnace and 5T AC unit is kinda high, but at least it's not on the moon.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:44
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skipdogg posted:Are you in a really high cost of living area? No, not particularly. Im getting the impression 6k would have been the price in 2019, but ~in these unprecedented times~... B-Nasty posted:So, you're willing to pay almost 50% more for that 'warranty and support'? You can buy a lot of service calls for the extra 5-6 thousand dollars. I'm not excited about it but on the other hand this last service call is going to cost around 5 figures so there we are.
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Jun 23, 2021 21:01
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tactlessbastard posted:No, not particularly. Im getting the impression 6k would have been the price in 2019, but ~in these unprecedented times~... You can expect a small premium because it's summer and unprecedented times, but I still think it's high. But that's location dependent. I have 100's of companies to choose from in my area. I saw in the other thread you mentioned a 15 year warranty? Drop it and the what are the details on the air purifier? Both of those items are probably massively marked up. 9500 for everything isn't super high, but you can probably do better.
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Jun 23, 2021 21:20
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what state are you in, and how hot does it get where you live, this question is important
Ace of Baes fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 24, 2021 04:39
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Ace of Baes posted:what state are you in, and how hot does it get where you live, this question is important It hit 99 last weekend and will be in the upper 90s through September. Arkansas.
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Jun 24, 2021 08:50
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tactlessbastard posted:It hit 99 last weekend and will be in the upper 90s through September. Arkansas. go with the cheap contractor, it may be a slightly worse install but financially speaking it's not going to be worth going with the other contractors even if they're perfect hvac angels who have perfectly cut transitions and plenum boxes and sloped condensate lines, maybe shop a couple different more contractors, also a little industry secret is all of the expensive companies will generally slash their prices way down if you try to haggle with them because they're operating at such huge margins
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Jun 25, 2021 03:13
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Ace of Baes posted:go with the cheap contractor, it may be a slightly worse install but financially speaking it's not going to be worth going with the other contractors even if they're perfect hvac angels who have perfectly cut transitions and plenum boxes and sloped condensate lines, maybe shop a couple different more contractors, also a little industry secret is all of the expensive companies will generally slash their prices way down if you try to haggle with them because they're operating at such huge margins That's who I've gone with. Couldn't find one lower.
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Jun 26, 2021 00:55
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This is going back a couple of pages, but I want to know more about a/c installs in attics. If it's common where you live, what kind of climate are you in? Is the attic conditioned? I have a/c in an unconditioned attic and I've had a problem with mold from condensation in the ducts in the winter. I figured I would have to either condition the attic or switch to ductless minisplit to deal with it.
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Jun 29, 2021 01:55
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Trillian posted:This is going back a couple of pages, but I want to know more about a/c installs in attics. If it's common where you live, what kind of climate are you in? Is the attic conditioned? I have a "makeup" unit in my unconditioned attic in a 2 story 1968 built colonial. It was common in that time to just have forced air heat, which got upgraded to forced air heat/AC, which was great for the 1980s. But climate control expectations are greater now, so in a place where you have temp swings that typically from from 15F to 100F you can't keep the upstairs properly cooled in the summer. No need to condition the attic, but it's a completely separate system with ceiling vents in every room upstairs as well as the hallway. I honestly wish it had a reversing valve because sometimes the upstairs would benefit from some more heat when it's very cold out. When it's time to replace this one I will likely do that and even potentially pipe it for two stage fossil+heat pump.
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Jun 29, 2021 02:16
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AZ here, I've never seen an air handler for a heat pump installed in a conditioned space. Most (including both houses I've owned) have the air handler in the attic and the outside unit mounted on the ground. My mom's house is the only oddball I've been up close and personal with, but even then one air handler is in the garage and the other is in an exterior-opening closet by itself.
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Jun 29, 2021 02:18
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The contractors were out installing the shiny new 3-zone mini split system today but ironically enough it got too hot out and they had to cut the work day short, only one more night in hell. It's the hottest day in recorded history here and I've got AC units on the walls but I can't use them
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Jun 29, 2021 02:41
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IOwnCalculus posted:AZ here, I've never seen an air handler for a heat pump installed in a conditioned space. Most (including both houses I've owned) have the air handler in the attic and the outside unit mounted on the ground. My mom's house is the only oddball I've been up close and personal with, but even then one air handler is in the garage and the other is in an exterior-opening closet by itself. The only time I've ever seen an air handler outside of the conditioned space in a single-family home was my grandparents' house outside of Las Vegas, but that was more or less a commercial barn with a living space rather than a normal home.
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Jun 29, 2021 17:18
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wolrah posted:That's interesting, my experience is the exact opposite. Here in Ohio every home I've ever lived in or visited has had it inside. If there's an unfinished basement it's almost always there. If there is no basement or it's fully finished then it tends to share a "utility room" with the laundry on the lowest floor. The house I grew up in, a two-story with a crawlspace, crammed it in a closet under the stairs off of the main entry hallway. Most gas air handlers are not freeze safe anymore, because even the lowest efficiency units will produce condensate while heating. AC only units, or heat pump only heat/AC are mostly fine to be in unconditioned spaces even where it freezes.
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Jun 29, 2021 17:44
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Air handler for upper story being in the attic is everywhere where I am right now as opposed to where I grew up two hours south where it was always in a second floor bedroom or closet. Ducting would use the attic either way so v:)v Aren’t the cool kids now making the attic part of the building envelope?
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Jun 29, 2021 17:48
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you got vertical air handlers, which are gonna be in closets, laundry rooms, basements, garages, then you got horizontals, which are gonna be in attics, then you got package units, where the whole thing is on the roof, or if it's a trailer or trac home and some normal homes, I've also seen horizontal air handlers on roofs but that is a hosed up install
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Jun 29, 2021 18:19
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Hed posted:Aren’t the cool kids now making the attic part of the building envelope? If it's tall enough to be usable space it might be worth insulating the rafters. Mine is only about 6' at the peak (which is annoying when you're 6'3"), so it's not usable as a room. I'm not about to pay to condition an additional 1200+ sq/ft so my holiday decorations are comfortable.
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Jun 29, 2021 18:20
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I have a problem that googling shows that other people sometime have with their HVAC, but without solutions. Figured I'd run it by here. The simplest explanation of what's going on, is that a brand new evaporator coil in the air handler unit that was installed at a 45 degree angle (same as the old one) is causing condensation to drip into the air intake vent, rather than the drip pan. In essence, condensation runs down the coils to the drip pan, but then some just drop off the coil when it's halfway to the drip pan. This gets worse once the unit shuts off, as I guess the air flow keeps more of the moisture on the coils until it hits the drip pan. It's a one bed/bath condo, 1.5 ton unit so it's slightly oversized I believe. A very highly recommended HVAC installer did the work (he also replaced the drip pan), and said he has never run into this in many decades of yadda yadda. The old evaporator coil was dirty as all hell but never gave us these problems, we decided to replace it while he was doing the necessary work of replacing the drip pan. We currently have pans to catch the water in the air intake vent, but it's not a longterm solution. I've been running a dehumidifer nonstop for 4 days to see if we just have excess humidity leading to excess condensation (it's a little undersized for the condo we live in, and I'm emptying it out twice a day). I bought a humidity sensor to see if our windows or something else is a sieve to the humidity in Raleigh, but it hasn't gotten here yet so I don't really know. I'm thinking maybe something hydrophillic I can spray on the coils, something to goose the bonding of the water molecules to the coils, while still letting gravity do it's thing.
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Jun 29, 2021 18:48
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your evaporator coils drain pan should cover the entirety of the coil, not just the end, do you have a weird fan coil (air handler built into the ceiling and accessible from conditioner space)?
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Jun 29, 2021 19:01
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I don't know how to post photos, but that is not the configuration for this air handler. The intake for the air handler is at ground level, pulling through a grate and air filter, with a 90 degree vertical bend in the duct work that passes over the evaporator coil and then continuing upwards and distributed throughout the condo. Since the air passes vertically (or perpendicularly if you prefer) through the evaporator coil, a drip pan beneath the coils would block that air flow. The drip pan is off to the side, which is why the coil is set at a 45 degree angle, so that water will run along the coils to the pan off to the side. This is the only unit I've seen like this (which is probably not saying much). *edit* Now that I'm looking at it closer, it looks like they cut out the sheet metal when they converted these AC units over from rentals to sellers (my gf bought this 9 years ago). So that cut in the sheet metal is where the air intake is. GordonComstock fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jun 29, 2021 |
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Jun 29, 2021 19:17
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Not sure of this is the right place to ask: I bought a house a year ago and the former owners didn't care much about upkeep. I got the AC cleaned. The tech said he pulled about 5 gallons of mud from it and the freon has 15% life left. The ducts were cleaned right after we moved in. The AC is a Guardian 1-stage and I have a newish (less than 5 year old) Bryant furnace. Air Pro is quoting about $11K because you can't just replace the AC unit? They have to do both?
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Jun 29, 2021 19:32
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Inzombiac posted:
This is gibberish. Freon doesn't have a lifespan. Is this unit a geothermal?
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Jun 29, 2021 19:44
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MRC48B posted:This is gibberish. Freon doesn't have a lifespan. No, not that I know of. It's a cheap unit that has performed admirably so far. I wonder how much smoke they were blowing up my rear end. Units have a lifespan, though, maybe he was using shorthand? The tech was very nice but the salesperson afterwards was a little too enthusiastic.
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Jun 29, 2021 19:59
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Inzombiac posted:The tech was very nice but the salesperson afterwards was a little too enthusiastic. How much did you pay for the maintenance? That sounds like something one of those $59 checkup places would say. Pay $150 or so to a reputable contractor in the area to do an inspection/checkup. No, you don't need to replace the furnace when you replace the AC. You can usually look for a plate on the outdoor unit to find a manufacture date. 15-20 years is about the max lifespan for an AC-only system, slightly less for a heat pump (since it runs more.)
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Jun 29, 2021 20:19
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It was normally about 150 but they had a 99 dollar promo. Maybe I'll get someone else out to look at the system to give a second opinion. My only real concern is that the AC may die before the end of summer.
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Jun 29, 2021 20:25
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My 22 year old AC system has kicked the bucket. It has a refrigerant leak. We've been having places come out to spec out a new system but they all have a 4-8 week lead time. It's a Unico system so I guess they're hard to get ahold of because there is only one manufacturer? I've borrowed two portables and one window unit. I've got 1000 sq feet upstairs and 1000 sq foot downstairs. I have all three of the window/portables downstairs right now and they can barely keep up. There are no doors downstairs in my house. My question is, is it safe to run these things hard? Right now I am manipulating the temperature all day and night so they don't run too much. I am nervous because none of them are mine. Second question: Should I investigate repairing the central air? The local HVAC company filled up the refrigerant once already and it leaked right back out. I'm leaning towards no because the thing is so old but it's July and our house is very hot.
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Jun 29, 2021 20:59
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Motronic posted:Most gas air handlers are not freeze safe anymore, because even the lowest efficiency units will produce condensate while heating. AC only units, or heat pump only heat/AC are mostly fine to be in unconditioned spaces even where it freezes. The regional differences in the way we build our houses are always neat to learn about.
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Jun 29, 2021 21:06
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MrChrome posted:Second question: Should I investigate repairing the central air? The local HVAC company filled up the refrigerant once already and it leaked right back out. I'm leaning towards no because the thing is so old but it's July and our house is very hot. No. If it's leaking, and especially since it uses outdated/expensive R-22, it's not worth trying to fix and refill. That money would better be spent towards a new system. 22 years is a good life; let it rest in peace.
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Jun 29, 2021 21:15
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MrChrome posted:
1) It's my understanding, and I am not an HVAC professional, that it is actually better to run the compressors hard/non stop than it is to start/stop them often. Short cycling, or constant turning off/on of the compressor actually leads to more wear and tear than if you just leave them running. This is a reason HVAC systems should be sized appropriately for a house. Oversized can lead to short cycling which reduces lifespan. It's like a bunch of short city trips are harder on a car engine than a bunch of long highway trips. 2) It's worth looking at for sure, but a 22 year old system is way past it's expected life. If the leak can be identified and repaired, the system should be able to be recharged and run until the next component dies. I had an evap coil leak at my last house, but the system was only about 7 years old, so it made sense to eat the 1400 bucks replacing the evap coil and recharging the system, than to pay 6500 for an entire new system. If the system was 11 or 12 years old, I would have replaced the entire thing. I think the right thing to do is replace it, but I don't know everyone's budget, and sometimes you just need to get another season out of something, so I get it. I wouldn't waste the money repairing it personally. Do shop around and ask local FB groups and Nextdoor groups about companies with good prices and reviews. A replacement HVAC system quote for me could run 6500 to 15,000 dollars depending on which company I called. Hed posted:Air handler for upper story being in the attic is everywhere where I am right now as opposed to where I grew up two hours south where it was always in a second floor bedroom or closet. Ducting would use the attic either way so v:)v My systems in my current home are horizontally mounted in the attic. I'm in the San Antonio metro area and have gas heat. My last house was a vertical system in basically a hall closet with electric heat. That one was returnless though, smaller single story home with undercut doors for airflow and one big grill return/intake in the hallway. Higher end homes, and those shooting for a lot more energy efficiency are starting to make the attic part of the homes envelope. I watch a lot of Matt Risinger's build show (He's based in Austin) on YT, and he gets to work on 1M+ dollar homes, he does focus a lot on energy efficiency in his videos. skipdogg fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jun 29, 2021 |
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Jun 29, 2021 21:20
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My house is about 1600 sq. feet (not including finished basement) It the most important factor the tonnage? I'm looking at 1, 2-stage and variable units. The variables look nice but are sometimes $4K more. Is there a supreme difference between 2 and variable that is worth the cost?
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Jun 29, 2021 21:36
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