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I am always ready to have sympathy for people who were bullied. Being violently assaulted is no joke. But then assholes like these are always like "I was bullied so badly. I acted like a huge creep around girls so they thought I was weird and sometimes I got teased a bit by the other kids." They can gently caress off with that poo poo even before the school shooter poo poo, which is just on a whole other level of 
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Jun 30, 2021 07:03
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Also like, the bar isn't even as hard as "don't fantasize about killing people" if that's really too much to ask, it's just "don't post on twitter that you fantasized about killing people" and he still couldn't manage to clear that. This whole thing from the start up til now has been an incredible running example of how sometimes it really is just better not to post.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:22
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Kai Tave posted:Also like, the bar isn't even as hard as "don't fantasize about killing people" if that's really too much to ask, it's just "don't post on twitter that you fantasized about killing people" and he still couldn't manage to clear that. This whole thing from the start up til now has been an incredible running example of how sometimes it really is just better not to post. but people snickered at him for playing with army mans 
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Jun 30, 2021 08:00
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Angry Salami posted:"Brainy-Acks" Fun fact the term Brainiac originally came from the DC supervillain.
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Jun 30, 2021 08:28
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There's a whole lot to unpack in Ernie's tweets, but something not raised yet: the cobbler thing. Isn't that total bullshit? All the biographies of Gygax I've seen say he was doing actuarial work (which pays pretty dang well) before he made TSR/D&D his career.
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Jun 30, 2021 13:01
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Warthur posted:There's a whole lot to unpack in Ernie's tweets, but something not raised yet: the cobbler thing. Isn't that total bullshit? All the biographies of Gygax I've seen say he was doing actuarial work (which pays pretty dang well) before he made TSR/D&D his career. According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know...) Gary Gygax was an insurance underwriter as of 1962. According to Indeed, the average yearly income for that job today is over $76,000. I feel like that hits the classic "Dad works, mom stays home with the kids, and we can still own a home and new car" mark for Boomer Life in the 60's. Edit: I agree with you, Ernie is just spewing BS
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Jun 30, 2021 13:14
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Jimbozig posted:I am always ready to have sympathy for people who were bullied. Being violently assaulted is no joke. But then assholes like these are always like "I was bullied so badly. I acted like a huge creep around girls so they thought I was weird and sometimes I got teased a bit by the other kids."
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Jun 30, 2021 13:18
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actually3raccoons posted:According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know...) Gary Gygax was an insurance underwriter as of 1962. According to Indeed, the average yearly income for that job today is over $76,000. I feel like that hits the classic "Dad works, mom stays home with the kids, and we can still own a home and new car" mark for Boomer Life in the 60's. I'll need to check Playing at the World again but im very sure he was a cobbler. quote:Gygax’s decision not to accompany Lowry to Maine must have depended in part on financial realities. After losing his insurance position in Chicago, Gygax had worked odd jobs in Lake Geneva to make ends meet, as the wages of “semi-professional” game publication, such as they were, could never suffice to support himself, his wife and their young children. From August 1971 forward, Gygax made a steady income repairing shoes. The bulky cobbling apparatus required for this vocation, by occupying so much space in his basement, forced Gygax to relocate his beloved sand table to his childhood friend Don Kaye’s garage on Sage Street in Lake Geneva, which consequently became the primary meeting place of the LGTSA. TheDiceMustRoll fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 13:29
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This seems relevant here too:CaligulaKangaroo posted:EVS is trying to insert himself into the TSR drama. And apparently trying to recruit E. Gary Gygax Jr. into ComicsGate. For some context: Ethan Van Sciver was a right-wing cape comics artist who was dropped by mainstream publications after he became too odious, so he decided to cater to the bitter alt-right comic fans who made their own -gate movement instead.
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Jun 30, 2021 14:03
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Never underestimate the size of nerds victim complex. It really is a mindfuck when you hear someone complain about being bullied and it turns out to have been some mild ostracism or being rightfully told to gently caress off with creeping on girls. Because no, being violently, sometimes even sexually assaulted, and having your life turned into a living hell because you're gay, trans, queer, Jewish, non-white, or disabled, is nothing compared to your White Nerd Suffering. Also, as this guy demonstrates, they'll never let it go either. It's high school, it sucks at best for almost everyone, but you don't have to carry that with you forever. I had a fabulously lovely time myself, but once I had my degree in hand, it was see you never again, and forgotten about most people by the time I got home. He, despite being like in 50s or even 60s, evidently has not. That says a lot. (Without going into the whole school shooter thing because loving hell. As someone who has Been Through poo poo, I can sympathise with being angry, and especially in the heat of the moment, having revenge fantasies. But most people it remains just that. Often they feel ashamed for even thinking that. They certainly don't casually write decades later how they'd wished to shoot up their school. If it was just this Gygax dude it'd be one thing, but this attitude is loving rampant in any nerd-adjacent hobby.)
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Jun 30, 2021 14:19
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Are there any good books or documentaries on the history of TSR and early roleplaying culture? As someone who didn't start gaming until 2011, all this old Gygax poo poo is stuff I've mainly learned through just being in the culture for a decade, but I'm increasingly interested in the bat poo poo insanity of all this with TSR's fuckery. I do have the Designers and Dragons books, but that's much more of a superficial look at it all.
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Jun 30, 2021 14:30
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"Of Dice and Men" by David Ewalt and "Empire of Imagination" by Michael Witwer are both really good. Both dive in to the early days of the hobby and TSR/Gygax.
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Jun 30, 2021 14:33
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Are there any good books or documentaries on the history of TSR and early roleplaying culture? As someone who didn't start gaming until 2011, all this old Gygax poo poo is stuff I've mainly learned through just being in the culture for a decade, but I'm increasingly interested in the bat poo poo insanity of all this with TSR's fuckery. I do have the Designers and Dragons books, but that's much more of a superficial look at it all. Jon Peterson's written a lot about this. The Elusive Shift that just came out end of last year is really all about early RPG culture, mostly sourced from contemporary zines and APAs from just after D&D came out to about the 1980s. His earlier Playing at the World, although it covers a whole lot more than that, also has extensive information about early TSR. I'd recommend getting ebook copies of both for easier reference, and in the case of PatW, because print copies are way overpriced right now.
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Jun 30, 2021 14:47
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I feel like we can acknowledge that Ernie is a messed up rear end in a top hat and also not minimize his statements of being bullied. Just because someone's a piece of poo poo doesn't mean they weren't also a victim of other pieces of poo poo.
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Jun 30, 2021 15:03
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Are there any good books or documentaries on the history of TSR and early roleplaying culture? As someone who didn't start gaming until 2011, all this old Gygax poo poo is stuff I've mainly learned through just being in the culture for a decade, but I'm increasingly interested in the bat poo poo insanity of all this with TSR's fuckery. I do have the Designers and Dragons books, but that's much more of a superficial look at it all. Jon Peterson's Playing at the World has been mentioned and is basically the standard textbook that I know of. For surveys of all gaming history I can highly recommend Shannon Appelcline's Designers and Dragons which is covers the history of all of the major gaming companies. The first taste is free and just happens to be that book's history of TSR It's in my watch queue so I can't vouch for it personally yet, but there is a documentary about the early days of Dungeons and Dragons by the name of Secrets of Blackmoor. As far as I know it's the only documentary that's been made and is readily available.
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Jun 30, 2021 15:04
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Nessus posted:
Doonesbury also regularly mocked Trump. In the 80s one of the characters was hired to paint tacky sexist murals on his yacht:  This was in 1989.
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Jun 30, 2021 15:08
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Rhandhali posted:Jon Peterson's Playing at the World has been mentioned and is basically the standard textbook that I know of. For surveys of all gaming history I can highly recommend Shannon Appelcline's Designers and Dragons which is covers the history of all of the major gaming companies. The first taste is free and just happens to be that book's history of TSR According to Appelcline Secrets of Blackmoor is pretty good but has a couple of niggling flaws.
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Jun 30, 2021 15:09
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Puppy Time posted:I feel like we can acknowledge that Ernie is a messed up rear end in a top hat and also not minimize his statements of being bullied. Just because someone's a piece of poo poo doesn't mean they weren't also a victim of other pieces of poo poo. It's disturbingly common for these kind of people to do the whole "I was bullied as a kid therefore it's right and just that I do X thing. In fact if it's anyone's fault it's the bully's!" thing. Like the "i was bullied so you can't cancel me!" spiel he's on now.
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Jun 30, 2021 15:19
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Cessna posted:Doonesbury also regularly mocked Trump. In the 80s one of the characters was hired to paint tacky sexist murals on his yacht: 
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Jun 30, 2021 15:42
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Kurieg posted:It's disturbingly common for these kind of people to do the whole "I was bullied as a kid therefore it's right and just that I do X thing. In fact if it's anyone's fault it's the bully's!" thing. Like the "i was bullied so you can't cancel me!" spiel he's on now. I mean, yeah, I'm not arguing that.
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Jun 30, 2021 17:28
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TOTALLY NORMAL e: Whew, got a screenshot https://twitter.com/Gygax_Jr/status/1410243732956487680?s=19  e: IT GETS BETTER https://twitter.com/WargarW/status/1410291629148282885?s=19 dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 20:22
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dwarf74 posted:TOTALLY NORMAL Screencap because the Ernie account no longer exists, and this tweet may disappear, for all we know:  e: fb?
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Jun 30, 2021 20:34
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Burning the Secret Fire at both ends, I see.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:36
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a nostalgia trademark and a company run by two guys with almost no products is a threat to WotC, yes, that makes sense to me
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Jun 30, 2021 20:39
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Screencap because the Ernie account no longer exists, and this tweet may disappear, for all we know: The tweet from varg still seems to exist for now - but who knows! I didn't realize he nuked his whole Twitter. Man, talk about showing your whole rear end. e: Dinehart's Twitter is also gone (@SEDart4) dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 20:43
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Things to worry about: when the arsonist nazi who killed a guy is on your side
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Jun 30, 2021 21:21
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Mors Rattus posted:Things to worry about : when the arsonist nazi who killed a guy is on your side I don't know how that's not an "Are we the baddies?" moment.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:27
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Puppy Time posted:I feel like we can acknowledge that Ernie is a messed up rear end in a top hat and also not minimize his statements of being bullied. Just because someone's a piece of poo poo doesn't mean they weren't also a victim of other pieces of poo poo. or call him a liar when he says something that's true and backed up by every historian on the subject
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Jun 30, 2021 22:05
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:or call him a liar when he says something that's true and backed up by every historian on the subject I had honestly forgotten about the cobbler thing and the two biographies I checked before I queried that point only mentioned Gygax's insurance job.
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Jun 30, 2021 22:18
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:or call him a liar when he says something that's true and backed up by every historian on the subject I think I lost the thread, what is this referring to specifically? e: Oh, the cobbler thing. Yeah, it's kind of important to remember how much of a financial strain Gygax Sr. was under when he seemed to be extremely eager to make D&D into a marketable product.
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Jun 30, 2021 22:19
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I think I lost the thread, what is this referring to specifically? They are trying to make out that I am either malicious or stupid for not remembering a minor aspect of Gary's biography which many sources don't even comment on.
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Jun 30, 2021 22:20
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It's TDMR, I'm still not sure they're capable of engaging with an argument honestly. Don't worry about it.
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Jun 30, 2021 22:30
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Mors Rattus posted:Things to worry about : when the arsonist nazi who killed a guy is on your side given the number of white nationalists I've seen getting in on this-- hell, just cited in this thread-- I'm not sure nuTsr is worried so much as pleased about resonating with their target audience. Even the school shooting thing Ernie mentioned in his little rant has the faint echo of dog whistle-- the canonical "bullied student" shooting, Columbine, was Harris' attempt to outdo Tim McVeigh. I don't really think that's Ernie's message there but it got my back up beyond just being a random retroactive death threat.
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Jun 30, 2021 22:41
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neongrey posted:given the number of white nationalists I've seen getting in on this-- hell, just cited in this thread-- I'm not sure nuTsr is worried so much as pleased about resonating with their target audience. I mean, I think they're quickly going to find that this is incredibly unsustainable. Hell the right wingers and libertarian Nazis are the first ones to scream and yell about monetization on sites like DrivethruRPG and such. I have trouble believing they'll find much in the way of monetary gain and then will also be entirely forgotten about when the Nazis 1) can't find anyone to sit at their tables anymore.because TTRPGs are getting Queer and Inclusive as hell and it's awesome as 2) they filter off to go be angry at the next right wing thing.
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Jun 30, 2021 22:59
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Warthur posted:They are trying to make out that I am either malicious or stupid for not remembering a minor aspect of Gary's biography which many sources don't even comment on. Please don't assume I was implying anything, I just found the whole "Ernie Gygax is showing his whole unvarnished rear end to the world, so he must be lying about his life too!" somewhat frustrating. Looking at the tone, it does come off as aggressive. Sorry! LaNasa comes off as the kind of person to collect that kind or error and use it as a "they're lying about THIS, so therefore...." thing. I read PatW and remember it well and ho-lee-poo poo there's a lot of made up bullshit re: Gygax, Arneson and the creation of DnD(Fwiw i dont even really think either of them "Invented" RPGs since there was a massive JCoM larp in the 50's we know nothing about, just that it existed, lots of indigenous cultures had "role-playing" games of various kinds, Yoko Ono's lyric games, etc) floating around and it can get frustrating. Again, wasn't meant to be an attack and again, I apologize
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Jun 30, 2021 23:05
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Saxophone posted:I mean, I think they're quickly going to find that this is incredibly unsustainable. Hell the right wingers and libertarian Nazis are the first ones to scream and yell about monetization on sites like DrivethruRPG and such. I have trouble believing they'll find much in the way of monetary gain and then will also be entirely forgotten about when the Nazis 1) can't find anyone to sit at their tables anymore.because TTRPGs are getting Queer and Inclusive as hell and it's awesome as 2) they filter off to go be angry at the next right wing thing. Grifting reactionaries definitely isn't the road to easy street, but it is possible to monetize it just like you can monetize being a twitch streamer or a youtube video maker or an artist on patreon. Like those jobs, however, it's never guaranteed. A ton of attempts at trying to cash in on right-wing dollars have been made with lovely kickstarter boardgames but those efforts have usually been made by complete nobodies and virtually no effort behind them. It's possible that Ernie Gygax, son of beloved elfgame nerd saint Gary Gygax, could possess enough name brand recognition to make a real go at it. Like Ethan Van Sciver, who was also in Ernie's mentions, pulled this off with ComicsGate and crowdfunded a comic called "Cyberfrog" to the tune of a half million dollars, and probably assorted other patreon grifts on the side, and he's basically a third-stringer whose claim to fame is "worked for DC for a while." I think the bigger impediment to Ernie's attempts to do whatever it is he's trying to do is he just seems terminally bad at doing anything.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:12
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Kai Tave posted:Grifting reactionaries definitely isn't the road to easy street, but it is possible to monetize it just like you can monetize being a twitch streamer or a youtube video maker or an artist on patreon. Like those jobs, however, it's never guaranteed. A ton of attempts at trying to cash in on right-wing dollars have been made with lovely kickstarter boardgames but those efforts have usually been made by complete nobodies and virtually no effort behind them. It's possible that Ernie Gygax, son of beloved elfgame nerd saint Gary Gygax, could possess enough name brand recognition to make a real go at it. If CaptCorajus is right, its some kind of weird publishing company where you pay them to associate yourself with a twice dead gaming company the average DnD player wouldn't recognize on a good day.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:37
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:If CaptCorajus is right, its some kind of weird publishing company where you pay them to associate yourself with a twice dead gaming company the average DnD player wouldn't recognize on a good day. Might as well try and bring back Burma Shave as a brand.
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Jul 1, 2021 20:09
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Rhandhali posted:Might as well try and bring back Burma Shave as a brand. Filing papers to register "Triangle shirtwaist" as a clothing brand and raking in the money when clothesmakers want to use my brand.
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Jul 1, 2021 21:20
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Rhandhali posted:Might as well try and bring back Burma Shave as a brand. There are worse ideas! https://www.theeastindiacompany.com/
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Jul 1, 2021 21:31
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