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Word just came down as well here Maybe meaning we can stay perma-WFH? Yet to be seen but our department is a prime candidate for it, even though my boss says he looks forward to us going back to the office, probably because he's a boomer-type and thinks there's some nobility in working a long, boring day's work. I still have three more interviews to do and the last one I was told the salary was $45,000 a year, so I told them I was already getting $55,000 (not true obviously) and they were like "oh well... the position is posted for $45,000" and I said "yeah okay, well if they have a counter offer let me know". Like, it seemed like they were surprised that someone highballed their offer for some reason.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:43
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Any theories why the world hasn't collapsed already?
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Jun 30, 2021 19:28
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Smik posted:Any theories why the world hasn't collapsed already? Habit
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Jun 30, 2021 19:50
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Smik posted:Any theories why the world hasn't collapsed already? Give it a few years...
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Jun 30, 2021 19:51
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Lol if you think we're not collapsing right this moment
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Jun 30, 2021 20:03
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Son of Rodney posted:Lol if you think we're not collapsing right this moment I agree we are currently collapsing, I just think it will take a few more years till it's collapsed.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:05
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Son of Rodney posted:Lol if you think we're not collapsing right this moment I'm talking theories on why things haven't completely collapsed already, past tense.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:10
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AHH F/UGH posted:Word just came down as well here You should do what I do. I was getting 55 remotely for a barely hours per day job and then got an office job in a nice flower company for the exact same salary for similar work & they were cool with me keeping the first job concurrently. 5 days in office but it's cuz i'm new. Will make one day WFH and 4 in office starting next week. I get paid for 80 hours. Every week. It's nice. This is my new thing.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:12
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It would be interesting if surveys were filled out by employees on their WFH vs. office preferences. With one twist: the surveys are anonymous. Maybe companies don't want to see those results.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:14
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Smik posted:Any theories why the world hasn't collapsed already? Inertia.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:17
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kntfkr posted:You should do what I do. I was getting 55 remotely for a barely hours per day job and then got an office job in a nice flower company for the exact same salary for similar work & they were cool with me keeping the first job concurrently. 5 days in office but it's cuz i'm new. Will make one day WFH and 4 in office starting next week. That’s cool and you will be loaded but at the same time, I’m trying to find a way to somehow work 0 hours a week from home and make just enough to survive comfortably than actually work 50 hours a week but get paid for 80. My main motivation here isn’t money but rather to find a way to not really work. I don’t have a very expensive lifestyle and I’ve already got way more hobbies and interests than I have time for, even working from home.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:19
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Mokelumne Trekka posted:It would be interesting if surveys were filled out by employees on their WFH vs. office preferences. With one twist: the surveys are anonymous. We had one. 97% wanted some kind of flex schedule. 92% wanted completely flexible schedules. Less than 1% wanted all staff back in office, and hilariously, this survey did not include management, so this was just some dickhead associates and 1% is up to like 6 people here. 70% said flex schedule was a requirement for continued employment. This may have been """anonymous""", but everyone replied like it truly was, cause all our competitors had already announced their 100% flex schedules.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:20
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Smik posted:I'm talking theories on why things haven't completely collapsed already, past tense. It can't completely collapse before it's finished being built. Everyone knows the foundations are crap and the architect shot themself rather than sign off on it, but we'll just plaster over those cracks, rebuild those walls and keep on groverhaus-ing our way to the stars.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:30
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goatface posted:It can't completely collapse before it's finished being built. Everyone knows the foundations are crap and the architect shot themself rather than sign off on it, but we'll just plaster over those cracks, rebuild those walls and keep on groverhaus-ing our way to the stars. That is more terrifying.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:57
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fresh_cheese posted:
Why do people over 50+ do this? I've caught this 3 times in the last month, people just saving emails and having their folder structure in the Deleted Items in Outlook! Then they are surprised when it disappears! Was it general practice in an older version of outlook to do this? Like prior to 2007?
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Jun 30, 2021 21:26
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Bondematt posted:We had one. 97% wanted some kind of flex schedule. 92% wanted completely flexible schedules. Less than 1% wanted all staff back in office, and hilariously, this survey did not include management, so this was just some dickhead associates and 1% is up to like 6 people here. My company formed an honest to god Return To Office Council around the time vaccines began to roll out. The preliminary findings are that people want to keep working from home and the vast majority of workers will be expected to be in person less than a day per week on average, with options to be completely remote. You need to opt in to being on site more than that with a tier of employee being on site three days per week and another at five. You must be vaccinated to do any on-site work. I'm still really surprised by how much the company embraced WFH as a continued policy, my wife and I were convinced we would have mandatory days once other companies started announcing policies. The current theory on why it turned out this way was that we've had a huge productivity growth in the last year and change. We offered a voluntary retirement package, cut the contract force and lost some people to competitors (including the guy who was being groomed to replace our CEO). Despite all that, we caught up on a ton of late builds, improved our customer scorecards and people's job satisfaction was higher than it has been since they started tracking it. Having talked with a few people more in my wife's sphere of the company, most everyone agrees that once they got a WFH routine and setup it made going back to the office less and less attractive as time went on. If we had somehow ended this situation in just a few months the majority of people would have been good with the initial plan, which was "get vaccinated, get back here." Now, we're all too used to the various convivences of not being in person (I went downstairs earlier and my wife was playing on the Switch while in a meeting. If it was in person she would have to pretend to be attentive for the 4/5ths of the time she wasn't presenting), and we know for a fact that a number of people moved away from the company's various offices to be closer to family or to go somewhere cheaper once management started to back off of the idea of everyone coming back forever. This all led to happier employees and better results so the company made a non-lovely decision to not force us all back to the office if we didn't want to be there.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:53
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Smik posted:Any theories why the world hasn't collapsed already? Time flows slower as it approaches the event horizon...
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Jun 30, 2021 22:07
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Lazyfire posted:(I went downstairs earlier and my wife was playing on the Switch while in a meeting. If it was in person she would have to pretend to be attentive for the 4/5ths of the time she wasn't presenting) Somewhere, a middle manager's eye twitches and he doesn't quite know why. VV: LOL. I'm dealing with the same sort of bullshit. Them: 'Can you please provide consultation on our development plans?' Us: 'No, because we have reason to believe you will ignore our recommendations but lie to people tell them we've been consulted and support your plans. We will offer our opinions on the plans through the offical channels when it's time for public comment' Them: Well that's not very helpful! Fine! later... Them speaking to people: They've been consulted and they are supporting our development plans. Guess who's looking at potential legal action? lol! Outrail fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 22:26
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(a month ago) Other team: so instead of using existing resources/employees we'd like to overpay for junk software that always requires duct tape to barely work and contractors to make what are pretty much ten page PowerPoints. This somehow will take a year. Me: no don't do that, we had this same conversation last year. Other team: we hear what you're saying (present day) Other team: (scheduling meeting with my whole dept for no reason) as Hyrax has given full endorsement of our plan with no changes we'd like to surge forward with HyraxProject 2021
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Jun 30, 2021 22:30
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Found out i get to stay perma WFH which i suppose is one of the benefits of working for a soulless consulting company that was making people fly to clients during COVID
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Jun 30, 2021 22:47
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Smik posted:I'm talking theories on why things haven't completely collapsed already, past tense. 2020 ratings were high enough to sign another 4 seasons. Most of the good writers quit after the books ended with the finish of WW2 and it's just been committees chasing ratings since.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:29
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vyst posted:Found out i get to stay perma WFH which i suppose is one of the benefits of working for a soulless consulting company that was making people fly to clients during COVID Same has happened to me. Our office remained at full capacity and still is, no masks and no mitigation measures. As things are (maybe) calming down a bit and after getting COVID twice, I finally got a job WFH.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:42
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Found out my workplace will require vaccination in order to work from the office but will not actually check in any way if you've actually been vaccinated. Amazing.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:53
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p sure if people get fatally sick the corp is not responsible
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Jul 1, 2021 02:32
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SniperWoreConverse posted:p sure if people get fatally sick the corp is not responsible Covid is a presumptive occupational injury/illness in California and compensable under Workers Compensation. Employer needs to prove they did not catch it at work, which is pretty much impossible if you've been there within your 14 days incubation period. However for most diseases, that is correct. For instance a nurse who gets sick for something other than covid would have no WC coverage. Any other state? Good loving luck.
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Jul 1, 2021 03:06
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Batterypowered7 posted:Found out my workplace will require vaccination in order to work from the office but will not actually check in any way if you've actually been vaccinated. Amazing. Flip it. Get vaxxed, don't tell them, continue WFH
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Jul 1, 2021 14:16
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AHH F/UGH posted:That’s cool and you will be loaded but at the same time, I’m trying to find a way to somehow work 0 hours a week from home and make just enough to survive comfortably than actually work 50 hours a week but get paid for 80. My main motivation here isn’t money but rather to find a way to not really work. I don’t have a very expensive lifestyle and I’ve already got way more hobbies and interests than I have time for, even working from home. Same. I do maybe 3 hours a day tops between both jobs. Now I just gotta transition the one role to remote, which could take some time but will be worth it. You gotta find one minimal time sink remote job and then find another. Could take a while but it's not impossible.
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Jul 1, 2021 14:22
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Machai posted:Flip it. Get vaxxed, don't tell them, continue WFH 
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Jul 1, 2021 14:32
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Lazyfire posted:My company formed an honest to god Return To Office Council At my new company I am on this. It's mostly for logistics since we have so many different business units and roles. Obviously warehouse people can't wfh but software developers are going to leave in droves if we make them come back to an office too soon. Some sales people can be productive from home and others can't so we're looking at that. Then you have all the legal and HR people, etc. The idea is to figure out what models work best for each group based on business/customer needs and also retaining talent. This company is very much aware that losing top talent sucks big time in the long run so they're actually listening to people. The big struggle right now is getting the top people to understand that whatever decisions we make this week and next week are not set in stone forever and need to be changeable in the future based on data we gather from back-to-office pilots. We'll see how that works out.
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Jul 1, 2021 16:32
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Elephant Ambush posted:At my new company I am on this. It's mostly for logistics since we have so many different business units and roles. Obviously warehouse people can't wfh but software developers are going to leave in droves if we make them come back to an office too soon. Some sales people can be productive from home and others can't so we're looking at that. Then you have all the legal and HR people, etc. The idea is to figure out what models work best for each group based on business/customer needs and also retaining talent. This company is very much aware that losing top talent sucks big time in the long run so they're actually listening to people. The big struggle right now is getting the top people to understand that whatever decisions we make this week and next week are not set in stone forever and need to be changeable in the future based on data we gather from back-to-office pilots. We'll see how that works out. Not to slam your company - maybe they actually are good! - but I feel like every time management does something unpopular, they like to couch it with "It's okay guys, it's not permanent, it's just temporary, we're just trying something" and then eventually everyone forgets that it wasn't always like that. I've only worked for extremely large companies, though. Follow-up question to the thread on this point: it seems like in most WFH conversation circles, it mostly revolves around IT/Development/etc. I am kinda interested in how other people's companies are doing things with other functional areas. My interest in this is primarily Accounting groups, but I wonder if Engineering/Accounting/HR/Finance/Legal/etc. are treated similar to IT at companies, or if each functional area gets to set their own rules. For my contribution, I'm in Accounting and it seems like we're going to a hybrid approach for awhile, then full-on back to the office this Fall. I got the impression that what I saw was a company-wide email, but it's possible it was only for a subset of groups. I'll be curious to see if there's a large exodus here or not. I started very recently, so I'm probably not going anywhere.
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Jul 1, 2021 16:42
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Zarin posted:Not to slam your company - maybe they actually are good! - but I feel like every time management does something unpopular, they like to couch it with "It's okay guys, it's not permanent, it's just temporary, we're just trying something" and then eventually everyone forgets that it wasn't always like that. I've only worked for extremely large companies, though. You are absolutely correct that it happens all the time but one of my biggest responsibilities with this group is to beat them over the head with the idea that things should be changeable over time. Whether or not they listen remains to be seen. This is only my second week here.
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Jul 1, 2021 16:56
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Elephant Ambush posted:You are absolutely correct that it happens all the time but one of my biggest responsibilities with this group is to beat them over the head with the idea that things should be changeable over time. Whether or not they listen remains to be seen. This is only my second week here. Oh, well then! Best of luck to you! Yeah, pre-COVID, last company was like "Okay, FINE, we'll allow flexible work, everyone can have one day a week WFH" and a lot of people were like "That doesn't work for me because _________, can I do ____________ instead?" and the company was like "no" and I was over there filling out Employee Opinion Surveys being like "Shouldn't flexibility be, y'know, actually flexible?" but people hated change I guess.
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Jul 1, 2021 17:09
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Elephant Ambush posted:At my new company I am on this. It's mostly for logistics since we have so many different business units and roles. Obviously warehouse people can't wfh but software developers are going to leave in droves if we make them come back to an office too soon. Some sales people can be productive from home and others can't so we're looking at that. Then you have all the legal and HR people, etc. The idea is to figure out what models work best for each group based on business/customer needs and also retaining talent. This company is very much aware that losing top talent sucks big time in the long run so they're actually listening to people. The big struggle right now is getting the top people to understand that whatever decisions we make this week and next week are not set in stone forever and need to be changeable in the future based on data we gather from back-to-office pilots. We'll see how that works out. I don't envy the decision makers on these sorts of study groups because there are so many weird things to take into account. I used to have vendors visit me on site or meet them for lunch. It wasn't necessarily part of my job (my predecessor apparently never accepted visit requests or lunch invitations) but you would be surprised at how much currency you can get with suppliers by sitting down with them for an hour. Outside of that and maybe performance reviews I really don't need to be in the office ever. Our team's designer could theoretically be a full time work from home employee as well, but because our drawings are so incredibly lovely he usually has to supervise the team building his designs. There's just not a great one-size-fits-all solution at any level. I have hope that the company will leave it up to individuals to make a choice for now, but I get the feeling that the authority making decisions on where employees work is slowly going to move up the management tree. I can only wait and see what comes of this, I know my manager is fine with WFH forever and our CEO has stated multiple times that we're cutting office space across the company in the next year. Also: my company loves to talk up diversity and acceptance (we have a chief diversity officer, there's a company podcast about awkward situations minority employees deal with, the CEO talks about how important a diverse workforce is every time he's in an all hands/town hall), participate in Pride and have a bunch of internal employee groups focused on inclusion and so on. For the most part it walks the walk on these things and this remains the most diverse company I've worked for and the only one to not have people make flat out racist statements with no consequence. Apparently there are enough chuds crying over all this that the company sent out a newsletter today. It read, in part: Megacorp Speak posted:Our support for Diversity, Equity & Inclusion is not about telling you what you should think, and we are not asking you to change your belief system. Instead, we are working to create a professional atmosphere where all employees, regardless of their personal views, feel welcome and are respected and free from discrimination or harassment. So basically, keep your racist poo poo to yourself.
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Jul 1, 2021 17:20
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Lazyfire posted:Also: my company loves to talk up diversity and acceptance (we have a chief diversity officer, there's a company podcast about awkward situations minority employees deal with, the CEO talks about how important a diverse workforce is every time he's in an all hands/town hall), participate in Pride and have a bunch of internal employee groups focused on inclusion and so on. For the most part it walks the walk on these things and this remains the most diverse company I've worked for and the only one to not have people make flat out racist statements with no consequence. Apparently there are enough chuds crying over all this that the company sent out a newsletter today. It read, in part: Please PM me which company this is if you're willing to share.
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Jul 2, 2021 01:23
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Volmarias posted:Please PM me which company this is if you're willing to share. Looking for work or places to avoid?
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Jul 2, 2021 01:36
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zedprime posted:Those things are more meant to tick a box/appear like you are following rules without actually protecting anything. Dear Christ otgs are the god damned worst. Especially if you're doing physical labor while wearing a mask. Yeah cool they're falling off and fogging up at the same time. I'll take the write up thank you.
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Jul 2, 2021 02:13
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Lazyfire posted:Looking for work or places to avoid? A place to work, or at least know about. Any place that's actually willing to do something for DEI beyond empty platitudes is worth knowing about.
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Jul 2, 2021 02:14
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Elephant Ambush posted:At my new company I am on this. It's mostly for logistics since we have so many different business units and roles. Obviously warehouse people can't wfh but software developers are going to leave in droves if we make them come back to an office too soon. Your mistake here is assuming they'll want to come back at all. Making a return to the office inevitable is going to cost you talent as quickly as making it immediate.
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Jul 2, 2021 05:06
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Interview #2 and 3 were today - #2 - They said it's required to move to New Jersey. I told him sorry, not happening. We made some obligatory small talk and then awkwardly hung up, knowing that we'll probably never talk to each other ever again. Single serving boss. #3 - The job listing said remote, but they are "transitioning back to the office". I made it clear that since these product support jobs are all web/phone/email based with only some occasional visits to customers in the field (if you're available for it), that no, I will not move to Fargo ND. I also highballed them on the salary (again, like last time). They said they'd get back to me and it was up to the department manager to "accommodate" those situations. It seems like most of these places list these jobs as being remote but they're either outdated info, lying, or they press really hard to get you to commit to moving "in the near future" or something like that. The company I'm most "excited" for is a company that specifically stated their jobs are almost all remote work, so I think I will probably not get any pushback when I tell them that's what I want. I also think I'd be the only one working in my 'department. The caveat is that it's a startup, so who knows how stable the job will be, and the salary was really low (only like $1 per hour more than I currently make). I highballed them there as well, but I believe my experience makes it worth their time to go for it. Plus, there's no way of knowing how much work I'd be doing. It could be an honest-to-god 8 hours of work per day... but I'd still probably take 8 hours of work from home over 2 hours of work at the office and 6 hours of pretending to work in the office. Still waiting to hear back from my current job about the Back To Work situation, if it even happens. The comment the guy made about the "overcapacity" and "parking" problems makes me somewhat hopeful though. I know it's stupid as well since it's just a job, but I'd sort of feel guilty dipping for what are selfish(ish) reasons of wanting to continue to roll out of bed to do my job. Has anyone here ever announced they were quitting and been made a counter-offer that you accepted? I wonder if that would sour the atmosphere and also make you a target/beholden to them in some way. AHH F/UGH fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 05:21
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On the topic of diversity, a friend works at an IT company that is relatively diverse. She's from Russia, there's people working from more than 10 different nationalities, we're in Germany. They recently decided to take diversity more serious and appointed a diversity manager to, you know, improve how it's handled in the company. Now who of the many diverse people in the company do you think they chose to fill this Position? A: any of the International employees who've come to Germany in the last years? B: any of the people with immigrant parents who grew up here experiencing life as a second generation immigrant? C: an outside applicant with first hand experience on diversity and ideally a diverse background? If you've guessed D (for Deutschland): a white, blonde, middle aged German woman who works there and said at the first meeting "this is my first time in a position like this so let's see what we can do!" then you are correct! My friend is very optimistic about this 
Son of Rodney fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 06:58
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