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e: eh, I don't like how I came across
Arist fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 18:21
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XboxPants posted:Did I miss something? How did the TVA find lokis on lamentis? It was set up as the conflict for the entire previous episode, including a big impossible cliffhanger and then... now it's possible to find them for some reason? I think part of it is that the VTA also doesn't know. Nexus events appear to be events that cause things to be different enough that a new timeline needs to split. Why they split still isn't clear but the longer the show's gone on the more it seems the TVA doesn't control time and isn't writing the sacred timeline, they're just stopping any nexus events so that there is only one timeline. What's "supposed" to happen isn't decided by them. They also don't know exactly why nexus events happen and new timelines form, they just know that they do and they need to stop them or else they won't have control. Apparently 2 Lokis from different timelines falling in love during an apocalypse is so weird that a new timeline has to form and it's going to form in a way that's different from the normal splits.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:24
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Gumball Gumption posted:I think part of it is that the VTA also doesn't know. Nexus events appear to be events that cause things to be different enough that a new timeline needs to split. Why they split still isn't clear but the longer the show's gone on the more it seems the TVA doesn't control time and isn't writing the sacred timeline, they're just stopping any nexus events so that there is only one timeline. What's "supposed" to happen isn't decided by them. They also don't know exactly why nexus events happen and new timelines form, they just know that they do and they need to stop them or else they won't have control. Apparently 2 Lokis from different timelines falling in love during an apocalypse is so weird that a new timeline has to form and it's going to form in a way that's different from the normal splits. I think the reason timelines split is pretty clear and shouldn't be overthought, they explain it in the first episode: when somebody goes off-script to the extent that the bigger picture will deviate and form a new timeline. So if you eat something different for breakfast than what you were supposed to, the timeline will probably correct itself because its repercussions are going to be fairly contained to your kitchen, and its implied that things just kind of convalesce back into how they were supposed to be. But (especially in a comic booky context), a hero developing their powers in a different way, or a different person being bitten by a radioactive spider etc etc, is going to have repercussions big enough to create a new continuity. But in the former example, there's still a chance that for whatever reasons those repercussions spread - your choice of breakfast causes you to be inspired to act in a certain way later in the day and causes a chain of events that then alters the course of history - the TVA still steps in. Its why the lokis can hide in apocalypses, because anything they do off script will have limited repercussions for the universe. The show seems to kind of present it as the space a deviation is taking up - like a tiny deviation confined to one room probably won't hurt, but the chain of cause and effect for some stuff will spread out until it reaches critical mass and demands a new timeline to split off. The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 18:35
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XboxPants posted:It doesn't really seem like this is any real stakes to this, no. The actors are charming and it looks and sounds good but that's about it. Well, given that multiverses and Kang are coming, this show will probably play into the bigger story in some way.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:43
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pik_d posted:How sure are we that Black Thor Loki is actually a Loki? What if he's actually just Black Thor? there being a bunch of alternate asgardian gods is the most fun outcome, so i hope it's the case
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Jun 30, 2021 18:45
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XboxPants posted:It doesn't really seem like this is any real stakes to this, no. The actors are charming and it looks and sounds good but that's about it. I mean, this describes every single piece of media in the MCU to be honest
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Jun 30, 2021 18:47
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I hope this somehow gives us Beta Ray Bill.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:54
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The Grumbles posted:Yeah same. I mean, Loki's definitely my favorite Marvel screen thing since Guardians of the Galaxy - loving it so far - but I definitely had that moment of feeling like Marvel were genuinely doing something daring and brave there. I don't know why, because I had that same feeling at the end of Infinity War, at various points during Wandavision, and countless other times across their recent films, even though they invariably play it as safe as they can with these big franchise characters. I don't know that I'd quite agree with that, because (a) they cast relatively unknown actors in big roles when the safe bet would just be paying out the nose to a big name actor, (b) they've done (or at least authorized) things that would probably be seen as risky within Hollywood boardrooms like making a Black man Captain America and (c) I think the problem is less "they don't take any risks with their characters" and more "they're willing to put characters in weird situations, but always choose a simple and pretty safe outcome to that situation". live with fruit posted:There's something Sakaar-like about it. Like the TVA can't actually wipe people off the timeline so they just dump them off in one, or at least the ones that aren't TVA material. It seems like the people they prune get dumped into apocalypses too, or, at a guess into pruned/dead timelines. So they can't affect the "sacred" timeline anymore, because the timeline has been cut off from the "sacred" one in some fashion, or they're starved of resources or something. There's presumably some kind of countdown in effect though, with Richard E. Grant saying that Loki will soon be dead if he doesn't act. The TVA can dip in and out of these dead timelines to grab people and repurpose them as TVA drones, but never do with Lokis since they're too mercurial and difficult to control or something I'd imagine. Cartridgeblowers posted:Prediction: The person in charge (Kang, maybe?) is only keeping the one timeline so that things go exactly as they should... leading to their inevitable rule. Kang has already conquered. What's weird is that nothing happened once the Time Lizards were killed. No-one came out from behind the curtain, and it didn't seem to set anything in motion. I'd presume Ravonna is at least heavily involved, since while she was knocked out when Sylvie killed the Time Lizards, she didn't show any surprise at their deactivation when she woke up. Plus, the way she iced Mobius was pretty cold and implies she's changed from when she let child Sylvie escape. Azhais posted:I really don't see how they involve Kang in the Loki TV show when he's the next big bad of the Avengers. If he runs the TVA he's already conquered all of time and space which means either: a) Loki moonwalks in and fucks that up making the next big bad look like a bit of a putz or b) Loki jumps into the prime timeline and is all "Fat Thor! Some guy named Kang has conquered everything! We gotta stop him!" which goes against the "The TV shows are not required for future MCU understanding" bit. At best I think there'd be some end of credits episode 6 scene with a brief shot of Kang sort of how Thanos was first shown. There is a quote from 2019 of Feige saying that you will need to keep up with the D+ shows to understand the movies, not that you won't. I do see some more recent stuff saying that he worries over whether people will be able to or not; that he thinks they will, but it's his job to worry about it and that they're trying to make things in a way so you can understand them without seeing all the shows. Which was generally true with how they made the movies too, since most of them at least made some attempt to explain any relevant changes in the movie. What it implies to me is that the shows can change stuff and move things along and they'll try to make it understandable in the new films; not that they're stopping the shows from making any changes.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:58
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Seconding the person upthread who said they're happy to learn that the twist they thought from last episode (that most of the Lamentis episode was a Sylvie enchanting spell) was wrong. Good episode! It would have taken some chutzpah to kill Owen Wilson off halfway through the series, so I'm slightly disappointed they made it all-but-certain that he's alive somewhere, just like Loki. My bet is that the person(s) behind the Timekeepers is another Loki variant of some kind. Mobius's comment about our Loki being able to be whoever he wants to be tips me in that direction. But I'm excited to find out!
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Jun 30, 2021 18:58
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pik_d posted:How sure are we that Black Thor Loki is actually a Loki? What if he's actually just Black Thor? FWIW, the character is referred to as Boastful Loki in the credits.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:59
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So my theory A Loki enchanted a human woman with fake memories of being a Loki, being captured by the TVA, and running and fighting them. They then, through their puppets the Time Masters, set a plan up to get The Protagonist Loki to the right place at the right time. The nexus spike was planted there by the Time Masters. I think if this is true it's probably Richard E Grant Loki, but I don't trust Crocoloki either. Or I could be wrong and it could be Kang/Mephisto
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Jun 30, 2021 19:19
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Senerio posted:So my theory Crocoloki is also set to be released as an accessory for some kind of lego Sylvie playset, which, if nothing else, indicates to me that they are definitely quite a little wily & dastardly beast.
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Jun 30, 2021 19:26
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Klungar posted:FWIW, the character is referred to as Boastful Loki in the credits. I mean, Thor was pretty carefree when we first meet him so it's not hard to imagine a Loki with that power has an even bigger ego than normal. He does appear to be a Loki though, since his costume has the gold neck ornament and looks very Loki-esque. It's not surprising that if there's infinite Lokis that some one of them must have Thor's power. Senerio posted:So my theory That seems pointlessly complicated. Why make Sylvie a human with Loki memories implanted in her rather than just being a female Loki? tsob fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 19:29
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swickles posted:I hope this somehow gives us Beta Ray Bill. And Frog Thor. I really want to see a Frog Thor and Rocket team-up.
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Jun 30, 2021 19:29
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kazil posted:Latest episode was amazing. Only downside to it really is the fight choreography is absolutely terrible. I think it's more the editing than the choreography tbh
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Jun 30, 2021 19:35
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Interesting that the show implies variants just happen at random because the universe is weird that way. The idea of a multiverse always hurts my head. So if you do something minor that deviates from the sacred timeline, but it corrects itself soon enough not to be a Nexus event, are you now a different person on a different but identical timeline? Or are you just a different person when things are out of sync? Like, what even is consciousness in this kind of universe?
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Jun 30, 2021 19:39
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If it's anything like the last 2 shows, I'm expecting another great episode and then a "Oh. Ok." finale. Still very much on board! If Mobius doesn't get to ride Checkov's Jet Ski and then get recruited by Nick Fury I'll be very annoyed. vvv Yeah, in my mind it's pretty much sure that pretty much everyone has been a variant at some point. Variants of any character could show up. mutata fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 19:41
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stev posted:Interesting that the show implies variants just happen at random because the universe is weird that way. I don't think the MCU is going with this idea but the way I think of it, there are infinite alternate universes. Every choice everyone has ever had or possibility has been done in one variation of the universe of another. They seem to be focused on larger deviations in the show. Spacebump fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 19:42
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mutata posted:If Mobius doesn't get to ride Checkov's Jet Ski and then get recruited by Goodman, Lieber, Kurtzberg & Holliway I'll be very annoyed.
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Jun 30, 2021 19:43
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pik_d posted:How sure are we that Black Thor Loki is actually a Loki? What if he's actually just Black Thor? The show is called "Loki"
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Jun 30, 2021 19:50
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at this point, i 100% trust the writers of this show to deliver the jet ski
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Jun 30, 2021 19:51
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[EDIT:] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yes. Unequivocally this. It will happen. Has to.stev posted:Like, what even is consciousness in this kind of universe? Perhaps that's what causes Déjà Vu. Softer deviations of the "main" timeline that course correct or fold back into main one. You seemingly remember doing something or experienced something specific, but just can't put your finger on the how/why/when/etc. I love thinking about this stuff, so fascinating. 
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Jun 30, 2021 19:54
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I think everyone is overthinking the deviation level thing. The TVA lied to everyone. It's not just any deviation that needs addressing. It's deviations that threaten the purpose of the TVA existing. So Loki being born as a girl or crocodile or whatever is not something they'd pursue until there's a turning point in that Loki's life that threatens the TVA in some way. Other variants you see in background shots that obviously aren't threatening and aren't main characters are just window dressing and fodder for making new agents/workers.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:06
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I was in my phone so I missed commenting a few things: Oh god I was happy to see Lady Sif, even if it was a time loop. It also seems she will be back in Love and Thunder. yay! And now I'm thinking that president Loki is a variant who decided to rule the prunedland a la Mad Max. Or TVA Loki deciding to rule the prunedland a la Mad Max. lol eke out posted:at this point, i 100% trust the writers of this show to deliver the jet ski We are OWED Mobius riding a jet ski. X-O posted:I think everyone is overthinking the deviation level thing. The TVA lied to everyone. It's not just any deviation that needs addressing. It's deviations that threaten the purpose of the TVA existing. So Loki being born as a girl or crocodile or whatever is not something they'd pursue until there's a turning point in that Loki's life that threatens the TVA in some way. Other variants you see in background shots that obviously aren't threatening and aren't main characters are just window dressing and fodder for making new agents/workers. This, they don't care if Loki is a girl, a sportsman, a hulk, human, etc. As long a Loki does what their prime Loki should do: being a lying rear end, resentful of his parents and brother, trying to get more power, invade New York, starting Ragnarok and getting murdered by Thanos. If a Loki ends telling Thanos to gently caress off and walk away they will be pruned. If a Loki took the decision to not be mean to his brother, they will be pruned, etc, etc and etc.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:19
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tsob posted:I don't know that I'd quite agree with that, because (a) they cast relatively unknown actors in big roles when the safe bet would just be paying out the nose to a big name actor, (b) they've done (or at least authorized) things that would probably be seen as risky within Hollywood boardrooms like making a Black man Captain America and (c) I think the problem is less "they don't take any risks with their characters" and more "they're willing to put characters in weird situations, but always choose a simple and pretty safe outcome to that situation". I'm just thinking in terms of pure storytelling, which often feels hamstrung by the obvious vested interest in their cast. Like, killing off the lead character half way through their series would have felt incredibly bold and exciting, and it did seem for a moment like that's where they'd gone with this. All of their business decisions are incredibly safe and go through more focus groups than any property in the history of film - including casting. There's a reason so many key moments are CGIed up years before production begins in earnest. I mean look, I don't have unrealistic expectations for this. The MCU always been late capitalist entertainment in its purest form. But there are always these moments that feel like maybe they're doing something brave and not focus tested out the wazoo, and I forget what I'm watching and get overexcited before it all falls flat. As I say, still really enjoying Loki though. It has a cool aesthetic, Owen Wilson is very watchable, and they've toned down a lot of the winking to camera that usually turns me off of Marvel.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:20
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Amazing episode with very many audible reactions from me. Related question: What is the accepted plural form of Loki? Is it "a pair of Loki" or "a pair of Lokis" or "a pair of Lokies"?
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Jun 30, 2021 20:25
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animeluva1 posted:Amazing episode with very many audible reactions from me. Lokii
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Jun 30, 2021 20:28
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Desperado Bones posted:We are OWED Mobius riding a jet ski. It should end like Trading Places, only swap the boat with a jetski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bynQvcIxQ8 spoiler warning for a 40 year old movie I guess
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Jun 30, 2021 20:28
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animeluva1 posted:Amazing episode with very many audible reactions from me. A trick of Loki.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:28
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stev posted:The idea of a multiverse always hurts my head. So if you do something minor that deviates from the sacred timeline, but it corrects itself soon enough not to be a Nexus event, are you now a different person on a different but identical timeline? Or are you just a different person when things are out of sync? Like, what even is consciousness in this kind of universe? It’s comic book publishing continuity logic made into a cosmology. There’s a bunch of characters with different creators all doing their thing and with their own takes on a character so lots of little variations that don’t really matter. But there’s a team of editors who make sure they all fit into the same continuity. And every now and then you get a What If? one shot or maybe things get totally out of hand and there’s a crisis on infinite earths. Comic book storylines are constantly getting pruned from the canon, continuity gets rebooted on the regular. I doubt they’re going this wild with things, but I could imagine one ending of the show being that the sacred timeline gets broken completely and this show heralds the Marvel Cinematic Universe exploding out from the current demand for a single continuity. Maybe we get a bunch of Marvel Ultimate shows or something for phase 5. It’d solve their problem that actors are gonna age out of their roles or characters are dead but still bankable.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:31
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Arist posted:Lokii Would that sound like "radii", "torii", or "foci"?
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Jun 30, 2021 20:35
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Floppychop posted:Would that sound like "radii", "torii", or "foci"? Yes
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Jun 30, 2021 20:35
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Floppychop posted:Would that sound like "radii", "torii", or "foci"? I imagine it would follow Old Norse plural rules rather than Greek ones. I've no idea how Old Norse handles plurality for names.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:44
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I would doubt it's -ii. Probably more odd like -ar, -um, -om or something off the wall.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:54
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Disregard my previous post, old costume Richard Grant is great and I can't wait for the avalanche of infinite Loki variants.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:55
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A Locus of Loki
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Jun 30, 2021 20:58
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Marvel looking sideways and Sony thinking 'We don't need your Spider-verse, we have Richard E Grant'.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:01
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I hope Grant’s Loki is relatively similar to earlier 616 Loki but not 616 Loki. I’d be for 616 never crossing over with MCU but if it does, 616 characters need to be animated or preferably not and just stuck on panels
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Jun 30, 2021 21:03
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animeluva1 posted:Amazing episode with very many audible reactions from me. Loci
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Jun 30, 2021 21:04
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Nitrousoxide posted:I imagine it would follow Old Norse plural rules rather than Greek ones. My super in-depth 30 second delve into old norse language wikipedia says ending in -a is to make nouns plural. Pluralizing proper nouns even with modern languages is tricky anyway. So my guess is Lokia?
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Jun 30, 2021 21:12
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