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omg EDSFF is the thing that started out as Intel's nutso "Ruler" idea it won but intel doesn't even make ssds anymore lol
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Jun 30, 2021 14:41
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Klyith posted:omg EDSFF is the thing that started out as Intel's nutso "Ruler" idea What? Intel still makes SSD. They're already shipping E1.S SSDs with both flash and optane
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Jun 30, 2021 15:04
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BurritoJustice posted:What? Intel still makes SSD. They're already shipping E1.S SSDs with both flash and optane The optane drives are Intel, but the flash ones are now really SK Hynix. Intel sold off their whole SSD business, except optane, to hynix last year. Including the right to use keep using the Intel name. Not that it makes any big difference, just a little ironic.
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Jun 30, 2021 15:25
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I know a bunch of people who worked at intel SSD division and there was a kind of buyout situation to get people to move over to SK. VERY nice buyout amounts, I forget the numbers now though. Most of the people I know still stayed at Intel though. The SK offices are in the same building as the Intel office here with a lot of shared spaces in labs etc, but I think they have a plan to split over 2-3 years. Some (NAND) enterprise drives are still from Intel too, it’s a bit of a weird split. They had already killed most of the nand nvme prosumer drives like the 750 but it seems like things like the p3700/4500 type drives will stay intel. Everything SATA and low end nvme is gone to SK though.
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Jun 30, 2021 15:35
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The intel e1.s drives intel has available are poo poo tier cliffdales. I believe they are behind everyone else in gen 4 samples if the impression I had from some snia workshop on edsff is correct. I would say it’s ironic but it’s actual very fitting for intel nsg to be late to a party it started The offers for intel nand people sound good. Signing bonus that’s 20% of your base pay for a group of people used to ho hum bonuses and poor annual raises is nothing to scoff at. I’d be extremely worried long term about my prospects there though and a lot of the engineers there seem to have pie in the sky ideas about everything
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Jun 30, 2021 16:06
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Intel is definitely the Boeing of semiconductors, one time engineering titans that have a lot of inertia but are crippled by the bean counters and insane bureaucratic growth. Buying SDK platforms from them on the CPU side is one of the most frustrating experiences one can have in tech.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:05
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I've been looking at PC upgrades the past few days and I'm torn between getting the 1TB WD Black SN850 and the Samsung 980 PRO. I noticed that the WD drive seems to have a peak read/write speed almost 500mb/s above the Ssamsung. Is it worth the premium? It seems like the pretty obvious choice I just want to make sure I'm not missing something about it. I currently have a 512gb 850 EVO as my boot drive. Would a PCI-E SSD really make that much of a difference? Like is it going to give me those next gen mindblowing kind of experience?
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Jul 2, 2021 06:34
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Not really, most of the day to day workloads is low qd random i/o which won't let you use the bandwidth advantages. The latency boost is going to be there, but you probably won't notice it. Also unless you copy movies back and forth all day long, you won't notice the sequential speed difference between Samsung and WD, so don't base your choice on that alone. mmkay fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 06:42
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I got an SN850 to replace a 970 Pro that I wanted for another build. I can’t tell any drat difference but I was able to turn PCIe 4.0 on and as we all know, 4.0 is More Number Big than 3.0. The 980 Pro had a firmware bug that is apparently worked out now (maybe?). I don’t think it will make any dang difference between the two, so I would get whichever Brand gives you the fuzzies.
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Jul 2, 2021 06:44
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Cygni posted:I don’t think it will make any dang difference between the two, so I would get whichever Brand For home use there's basically no perceptual difference in actual drive performance between...honestly almost any "reasonably fast" drive these days. An NVMe boot drive will shave a couple of seconds off a cold Windows boot. That's about the biggest difference you're likely to notice.
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Jul 2, 2021 13:57
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quote:The 980 Pro had a firmware bug that is apparently worked out now (maybe?). I don’t think it will make any dang difference between the two, so I would get whichever Brand gives you the fuzzies
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Jul 2, 2021 13:59
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I enabled bit locker on my sn850 recently and it was fun to watch it encrypt at 1 GByte/s (vs 125MByte/s for a sata ssd), but that's about it for performance improvements on day to day. There's maybe a couple of seconds shaved off here and there for loading stuff (email client and some games), but that's about it.
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Jul 2, 2021 14:28
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I bought a Samsung t5 1tb external SSD for bulk media storage on a test device for work. It's 5x faster than the no name 250 GB SSD already in the computer. Too bad I can't exchange the internal one.
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Jul 2, 2021 14:42
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Optane isn't dead go buy optane https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-launches-optane-ssd-p1600x quote:Intel has released its new datacenter Optane SSD designed specifically for boot, caching, and logging workloads. The Optane SSD P1600X product line does not boast huge capacities, yet its performance and extreme endurance promise to ensure high reliability and cost efficiency required for workloads. quote:Not anywhere close to the performance of the best SSDs, the Optane SSD P1600X SSDs are rated for an up to 1870 MB/s sequential read speed, an up to 1050 MB/s sequential write speed as well as up to 426K/243K random read/write speeds. By today's standards, these drives are not really fast, unless multiple of such drives are used in RAID 0 mode for maximum performance.
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Jul 2, 2021 16:44
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that's loving blazing quick latency for logging.... I was kind of under the impression that logging was not a bottleneck in essentially any workload, if appropriately handed off to avoid delay for write through, then written to devices with substantial ram caches and PPCs Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 16:58
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I guess if someone is married to some crappy EOL LOB that waits for write through, logging to permanent storage matters if you also can't for some reason use dram cached ssds? This is probably where someone who works for a hyperscaler points out that there are workloads with well-designed logging that really do fundamentally exceed the dram de-staging capabilities of Enterprise SSDs Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 17:02
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Potato Salad posted:This is probably where someone who works for a hyperscaler points out that there are workloads with well-designed logging that really do fundamentally exceed the dram de-staging capabilities of Enterprise SSDs I mean, yeah. The amount of logging someone like Azure or AWS does on their stuff is...uh...large. Intel ain't (always) stupid, and will happily make products like this that are basically aimed only at such customers. I mean, poo poo, if they can't sell them CPUs forever they might as well keep iterating on the bits of tech that they still do have actual advantages in, right?
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Jul 2, 2021 17:41
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buy optane plz https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-optane-ssd-dc-p5800x-review 
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Jul 2, 2021 22:28
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Wow that’s impressive. Do they require any preconditioning? E: read the article and nope, as the graph shows (duh) $1100 for 400GB tho 
priznat fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 22:33
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priznat posted:Wow that’s impressive. Do they require any preconditioning? Think of the time you’d save it pays for itself
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Jul 2, 2021 22:53
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Micro Center's selling their in-house brand 4TB PCIe 3.0 drive for $479.99: https://www.microcenter.com/product...-gaming-solutio Same price on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Inland-Plati...a-search&sr=8-2
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Jul 3, 2021 04:14
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Micro Center's selling their in-house brand 4TB PCIe 3.0 drive for $479.99: https://www.microcenter.com/product...-gaming-solutio Note that this is a QLC drive. It's a good one, but that's what it is.
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Jul 3, 2021 05:09
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Klyith posted:Note that this is a QLC drive. It's a good one, but that's what it is. Also carries a six year warranty. I have to admit I'm tempted to get one just to populate the third M.2 slot on my board and act as the Steam/fast storage drive.
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Jul 3, 2021 05:15
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64bit_Dophins posted:I've been looking at PC upgrades the past few days and I'm torn between getting the 1TB WD Black SN850 and the Samsung 980 PRO. Those drives are way overpriced, you probably want the WD SN550. The question is more about do you need more space. If you need a new drive anyway, then buying a good, cheap NVMe makes sense since they aren't much more expensive. Those premium NVMe rarely are worth the price.
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Jul 3, 2021 19:44
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The 550's DRAM-less, though. Well, that's not entirely true, if I recall it
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Jul 3, 2021 20:39
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BIG HEADLINE posted:The 550's DRAM-less, though. All dram-less NVMe drives work that way. And it is of pretty much zero impact to home user / gamer enthusiast performance. Dram-less drives are really bad for many server-type workloads like big databases, because even with the borrowed system ram they don't have their complete mapping table in fast memory. For highly random, low-latency, small data per read type IO they get choked. It's not a problem for desktop PCs because nothing in an enthusiast's normal rota is at all like that server workload. Unless you run large databases as a hobby. Dramless is far less of a concern than QLC.
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Jul 3, 2021 21:04
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There are enough performance impacts that I wouldn’t get a dramless SSD for a boot drive in basically any circumstance honestly. You can get mainstream drives with DRAM for like the same price. Not worth saving the like, $5 on a 1TB drive.
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Jul 3, 2021 21:28
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These prices are always changing, but the 1TB SN750 is just $10 more than the SN550 on Amazon right now. That puts it firmly in the "May as well, why not?" category. I get that the performance increases are not always going to be all that noticeable, but, i mean, it's $10.
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Jul 3, 2021 22:33
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For $5-10 it's totally worth the bump, and you're not just getting dram with the SN550 -> SN750 upgrade. The 750 is better all-around and has including much higher sequential transfer, which currently doesn't matter but IMO is more likely to have future value with DirectStorage type stuff. But for a while the cost spread was more like $30, which on a $100 drive is not small. Cygni posted:There are enough performance impacts that I wouldn’t get a dramless SSD for a boot drive in basically any circumstance honestly. Got anything showing that?
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Jul 3, 2021 22:45
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Klyith posted:Got anything showing that? I mean if you are lookin for like real world tests, there isn't much difference. Division 2 is one of the ones with the biggest to show for it and:  But the way I look at it is even if you are saving 1 second per load and a few seconds per boot? Spread out over the lifetime of an SSD, for $5 on a ~$100 product, it is totally worth it in the additive. It's obviously not even close to the difference between spinning rust and an SSD, and if it was $50 premium it would absolutely not be worth it, but I can't in good conscious recommend anyone skip it at today's prices. I guess in a mega-ultra-budget build that will only be used for word processing at college or something, but even in that sorta realm, i would probably say just get a used Dell SFF office system or something. Cygni fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Jul 4, 2021 |
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Jul 4, 2021 10:27
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Cygni posted:I mean if you are lookin for like real world tests, there isn't much difference. Division 2 is one of the ones with the biggest to show for it and: Meanwhile, the HP EX 900 Pro -- a dramless drive -- did pretty well on benches for big load games, which doesn't include division 2 but are similar. Cygni posted:But the way I look at it is even if you are saving 1 second per load and a few seconds per boot? Spread out over the lifetime of an SSD, for $5 on a ~$100 product, it is totally worth it in the additive. But also are you rebooting your PC multiple times per day and loading levels in the division 2 constantly? Personally I reboot my PC once or twice a month, and the thing about games with 20 second load times is they tend to be big open world stuff where you only need to load once or twice in a play session. I think if you put some more conservative estimates on how many times you encounter 1-2 seconds of time saved on the average day, you'll come to more like 10-15 minutes per year. I could save 15 minutes by not writing this post. Cygni posted:if it was $50 premium it would absolutely not be worth it, but I can't in good conscious recommend anyone skip it at today's prices. A faster SSD may be worth some extra bucks, but dram in and of itself is not well correlated to advantage in desktop.
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Jul 4, 2021 19:24
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Penny pincher builders like me will always pocket the savings too, or divert the funds elsewhere in a budget build, even if it's just a $10-$20 difference. That's an extra case fan.
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Jul 4, 2021 20:13
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Would I notice any difference between a 1TB 980 EVO NVMe and this regular old 980 NVMe drive? https://www.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-MZ-V8V1T0B-AM-980-SSD/dp/B08V83JZH4/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=NVMe+1TB&qid=1625510331&s=electronics&sr=1-3 [edit] I'm reading reviews of this Silicon Power A80 NVMe drive and it seems pretty good? $112 for 1TB seems alright https://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Powe...658&sr=8-3&th=1 teagone fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 5, 2021 19:39
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teagone posted:Would I notice any difference between a 1TB 980 EVO NVMe and this regular old 980 NVMe drive? https://www.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-MZ-V8V1T0B-AM-980-SSD/dp/B08V83JZH4/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=NVMe+1TB&qid=1625510331&s=electronics&sr=1-3 The 980 non-Pro is, again, a DRAM-less drive. It's got really fast TLC NAND on it, but I'd still probably look elsewhere. It'd be different if it were a PCIe 4.0 drive and had performance to match, but Samsung charging full ticket for a DRAM-less drive simply because "980 is more than 970" is kinda  .I'm also assuming you meant the 970 EVO and/or EVO Plus, since there isn't an 980 EVO yet. The SSD Review gave the 980 a good score and I trust them more than my bias against DRAM-less drives: https://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/nvme/samsung-980-nvme-gen-3-ssd-review/
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Jul 5, 2021 22:02
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teagone posted:Would I notice any difference between a 1TB 980 EVO NVMe and this regular old 980 NVMe drive? https://www.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-MZ-V8V1T0B-AM-980-SSD/dp/B08V83JZH4/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=NVMe+1TB&qid=1625510331&s=electronics&sr=1-3 There isn't a 980 Evo, did you mean by comparison with the 980 Pro or 970 Evo? Plain 980 is a dramless PCIe3 drive. It's most interesting point of comparison is the WD SN550 -- the 980 has better max read speed, on par with a 970 Evo in bursts. But it does worse than the SN550 in situations that are bad for dramless drives. The 980 has notably terrible latency under even moderate pressure. Even if they were the exact same price, I think it's a pretty difficult call which one is "better". But the SN550 is almost always cheaper than the 980, I'd go with $. Compared to the 970 Evo, a 980 is vastly worse at high-intensity workloads (of the type that a home desktop rarely encounters). It has one interesting advantage: the 970 Evo uses static SLC area, while the 980 uses an expandable one. In the case where you have a 1TB drive that's 50% full, you keep over 150GB of SLC. A place where you might notice this is a big file copy or something like decrypting a steam preload, which the 980 could be super-fast at. OTOH just like a QLC drive, that advantage shrinks if the drive is full. The 980 Pro is a PCIe4 drive that's one of the fastest drives on the market, and also very expensive. It's not worth buying unless you are future-proof against things that may or may not happen (future-proofing is generally dumb).
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Jul 5, 2021 22:03
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Oh yeah, meant 970 EVO, sorry. Thanks for the info  And yeah, looking for best bang for your buck 1TB NVMe drive to use in a build I'm doing for a friend:teagone posted:Doing a new build for another friend of mine who managed to snag a 5800X at a decent price. They also secured a kit of 2x32GB of DDR4 3600 RAM (lol) and an MSI 3060 Ti GPU. Here's the rest of the build I put together for them: PCPartPicker Part List Ruling out the 980 gen3 DRAMless drive then  I've recommended the SN550 in the past to another PC builder friend, and was just gonna use that for the above build. The 1TB is $120 currently on Amazon. Would I be better off going with an SK Hynix Gold P31 drive for $15 more to use in their PC instead? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DKB5LWY/ref=twister_B08DKD8RNG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
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Jul 5, 2021 22:35
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teagone posted:And yeah, looking for best bang for your buck 1TB NVMe drive WD SN550 Inland Premium The Inland Premium is a phision controller w/ dram, it keeps up with the SK Hynix in everything except power efficiency and warranty. Power efficiency doesn't matter if it's going in a desktop, it's a moderately hot drive but you have plenty of fans there. Warranty, it only gets 3 years. (Inland is microcenter's house brand. You have no worry about warranty quality, only about 2 fewer years. Which IMO on a SSD isn't a big deal since the bathtub curve is pretty wide.) Edit: since you might not be buying today I'll add an honorable mention: The HP EX950. Prices on those tend to bounce up and down a lot, if you score them on the right day they can be $120. If this is the same price or cheaper than the Inland Premium, it's worth getting as it's better (by an incredibly tiny margin) and has 5 years warranty. Klyith fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 5, 2021 22:57
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The only wildcard with HP drives is HP could eventually divest themselves of the consumer drive business.
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Jul 5, 2021 23:21
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Klyith posted:WD SN550 Inland Premium looks good, thanks. I've got two Microcenters near me that aren't too far away The motherboard I'm using for the build has a heatsink I think that goes over the M.2 slot. Would that actually help cool the Inland Drive? Or is it just for looks, lol:
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Jul 5, 2021 23:51
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BIG HEADLINE posted:The only wildcard with HP drives is HP could eventually divest themselves of the consumer drive business. The HP drives aren't even made by HP really, they're made by a company that did a deal with HP to market using their name. Which makes for sketchy horror stories on the internet of people being denied warranty for the drives -- they tried calling the real HP and HP was like "that's not ours  ".Gotta look at your warranty card rather than blindly call the top google result for "hp support". teagone posted:Inland Premium looks good, thanks. I've got two Microcenters near me that aren't too far away That particular drive isn't the hottest around, I just mentioned it as a point of comparison with the SK Hynix. Which is one of the coolest / most power-efficient drives around. That does make a difference if using in a laptop, both for battery life and not burning your thighs. When you have drives in the top slot the spreader is good, as much to protect against heat radiating from the back of the GPU as for the drive's own heat. Plenty of mobos don't have spreaders on lower m.2 slots and it's way less critical there. (Also the label stickers on m.2 drives are often made with a layer of copper foil, so don't remove them.) But heat on NVMe SSDs is really not a problem in desktops as a general thing. The operations that generate a ton of heat are read-speed benchmarks, not real-life use. So you don't need to do anything but use the spreader that comes with the mobo, and not have a hotbox case.
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Jul 6, 2021 00:37
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