Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Ruffian Price
Sep 17, 2016

You crack me up, little buddy.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters
I still quote 'theyre mine, nachos!' and inwardly attribute it to Max even though I'm sure it's a joke that's been done millions of times.

Killingyouguy!
Sep 8, 2014

An absolute poo poo tier video of them, but on the City Trial map in Kirby Air Ride, there's two little flowers hidden on obscure bits of level geometry you typically wouldn't access.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDOvxGKGrNs

:)

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
I FINALLY got past level 3-1 in Wolverine's Revenge. I've been stuck on that level for days. Hopefully at least the next few levels will chill out because that one was both long and hard.

Glad I finally did it though. It's a huge difficulty spike.

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

Had this happen to me in Skyrim earlier. God I love when dumb poo poo like this occurs.

https://twitter.com/No_X_in_Nixon/status/1410323315856707587?s=20

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



Killingyouguy! posted:

An absolute poo poo tier video of them, but on the City Trial map in Kirby Air Ride, there's two little flowers hidden on obscure bits of level geometry you typically wouldn't access.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDOvxGKGrNs

:)

I want a sequel to Air Ride so incredibly much.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

malae fidei cum XI_XXVI_MMIX
Just finished playing The Curse of Monkey Island and the pirate song gag is so good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsOiFNb0UlI

Killingyouguy!
Sep 8, 2014

Vandar posted:

I want a sequel to Air Ride so incredibly much.

Oh my god same. I feel like many people do? And I'm surprised they didn't capitalize on the battle royale trend with one. City Trial 99 would kick rear end

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat
It Takes Two at the end has a level where you have to slide down a road that twists around and if you slide too far to the side you go flying off and it will slowly place you back on the track. It's also rainbow colored.

They make jokes about how it would make a great racing game level.

Had a blast the whole game and that includes the brutal murder you commit.

HelleSpud
Apr 1, 2010

BioEnchanted posted:

I FINALLY got past level 3-1 in Wolverine's Revenge. I've been stuck on that level for days. Hopefully at least the next few levels will chill out because that one was both long and hard. :wiggle:

Glad I finally did it though. :wiggle: :wiggle: It's a huge (:wiggle:) . . . difficulty spike.



Content:
Wandering in BotW and I wound up in these foothills with a series of shallow ponds as the sun went down. While unremarkable during the day at night you see that the ponds have every single bioluminescent thing in the game (flowers, shells, etc.) and two of the sparkle koroks. No enemies, just tranquil ponds, softly glowing and glittering in the moonlight. The area isn't named, it's not pointed out in any way, there's no reason for it to have this, there's no reason to go this way. They had a space to put anything or nothing; so they made it beautiful.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

So I've finally gotten around to playing Horizon: Zero Dawn, and there's a little thing in there that basically saved the entire game for me. The thing is, I absolutely 100% could not get into the combat, and the game likes to throw you into unavoidable fights quite a bit. Eventually it got to the point where it actively discouraged me from picking up the game again. But then I belatedly remembered that the game does have difficulty settings, and one of them is a dedicated "story" setting that turns you functionally immortal while boosting your damage enough that you can easily one-shot most enemies. That was just the thing that allowed me to blast through the otherwise tedious combat with not a care in the world, and enjoy some of the most entertaining worldbuilding, environments, and story I've seen in a game in a while.

So thanks that that small but important option, I can now finally say: gently caress Ted Faro.

RoboRodent
Sep 19, 2012

Perestroika posted:

So I've finally gotten around to playing Horizon: Zero Dawn, and there's a little thing in there that basically saved the entire game for me. The thing is, I absolutely 100% could not get into the combat, and the game likes to throw you into unavoidable fights quite a bit. Eventually it got to the point where it actively discouraged me from picking up the game again. But then I belatedly remembered that the game does have difficulty settings, and one of them is a dedicated "story" setting that turns you functionally immortal while boosting your damage enough that you can easily one-shot most enemies. That was just the thing that allowed me to blast through the otherwise tedious combat with not a care in the world, and enjoy some of the most entertaining worldbuilding, environments, and story I've seen in a game in a while.

So thanks that that small but important option, I can now finally say: gently caress Faro.

I will champion broad difficulty settings forever because of this. Sometimes I don't want to beat my head against a difficult challenge for hours. That doesn't mean I don't want to experience the game!

I rarely play on high difficulties. I am a busy adult person with limited video game time.

And honestly, HZD can be quite challenging.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat
Wait, it has that? The combat is what turned me off the game. I might have to fire that bad boy back up.

Also BOTW is incredible. They just packed that world full of loving touches.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



The funny thing about HZD's easiest difficulty is that it is independent from fall damage, so there have been numerous times I've been running around as a basically Captain America-tier superhuman, only to die from sliding down a steep 12-foot slope :rip:

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Captain Hygiene posted:

The funny thing about HZD's easiest difficulty is that it is independent from fall damage, so there have been numerous times I've been running around as a basically Captain America-tier superhuman, only to die from sliding down a steep 12-foot slope :rip:

Aloy in summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1bE67nuHQU&t=33s

Acute Grill
Dec 9, 2011

Chomp

Captain Hygiene posted:

One of my main complaints about Mass Effect 2&3 was their switching to standard ammo pickups instead of the infinite recharge vs overheating mechanic from the first game, which I thought felt much better for the setting. Well, I finally found an "antique" weapon (the M-7 Lancer) that works along the old mechanics, and it feels so good. I've had a particle rifle that works that way for quite a while but I don't like the feel of its continuous beam, the standard assault rifle just feels so much better.

My favorite thing about ME1's (admittedly weak) gunplay was how they tied weapon customization into the overheating system. Slap some high quality Frictionless Materials and Cryo Ammo and you can have an assault rifle that isn't great for damage but will literally never overheat. You can just walk through a mission with the trigger held down, lighting up enemies, allies, walls, wildlife, etc with absolute abandon. You can also go in the other direction and make your Sniper Rifle or Shotgun function like a rocket launcher and have it immediately overheat but lob an exploding ball of flaming slag at the enemy, which were both great ways of utilizing the weapons if you were a class that couldn't otherwise train them up normally.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


I think the combat in Horizon Zero Dawn is really good, one of the few experiences similar to ME2 where I've replayed it a bunch of times on the hardest difficulty and always find the gameplay to be enjoyable. I like how a little knowledge and strategy can turn what looks like a totally unwinnable fight against some imposing robot behemoth into something you can do in all blue gear, especially on Ultra-Hard where you really have to apply every trick in the book.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

exquisite tea posted:

I think the combat in Horizon Zero Dawn is really good, one of the few experiences similar to ME2 where I've replayed it a bunch of times on the hardest difficulty and always find the gameplay to be enjoyable. I like how a little knowledge and strategy can turn what looks like a totally unwinnable fight against some imposing robot behemoth into something you can do in all blue gear, especially on Ultra-Hard where you really have to apply every trick in the book.

Yeah I've only played a bit but there have definitely been times where I've clearly hosed up and am about to die but somehow manage to pull it out. Any game that can create that feeling is doing something right IMO.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



Acute Grill posted:

My favorite thing about ME1's (admittedly weak) gunplay was how they tied weapon customization into the overheating system. Slap some high quality Frictionless Materials and Cryo Ammo and you can have an assault rifle that isn't great for damage but will literally never overheat. You can just walk through a mission with the trigger held down, lighting up enemies, allies, walls, wildlife, etc with absolute abandon. You can also go in the other direction and make your Sniper Rifle or Shotgun function like a rocket launcher and have it immediately overheat but lob an exploding ball of flaming slag at the enemy, which were both great ways of utilizing the weapons if you were a class that couldn't otherwise train them up normally.

I remember having a pistol that was almost capable of one-shotting anything in the game. You could only fire it once a fight because it generated about as much heat as the sun, but whatever it was shot at would basically be dead.

Lechtansi
Mar 23, 2004

Item Get
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play games, and difficulty modes are awesome but I could see people getting tripped up by Horizon: Zero Dawn's combat because it doesn't play like most games. You can't just brute force your way through. It's tactical. The game really rewards knowing how to fight and being prepared, compared to just grinding and increasing your numbers.

So, I guess the little thing is that I love how HZD's combat is so different from other games. It's not about complicated combos. It's not about getting better gear. It's not just the same boring button mash contest (looking at you BOTW). You gotta know how to take down each individual robot and that's complicated at first but in the end, you feel like loving batman.

If you bounced off the combat, look up a tutorial on how to fight a particular robot and then try it the "right" way. If that's still not your jam by all means set it to story mode and just superhero your way through it. But I think the combat is really special and it's different enough that you might not get it at first, and I would hate for people to give up on it unfairly.

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
I kinda was grumpy about hzd combat till I got the banu tension bows and could actually reliably land a super hard hit or effect off the bat with a triplenocked max charge

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Lechtansi posted:

The game really rewards knowing how to fight and being prepared, compared to just grinding and increasing your numbers.

So, I guess the little thing is that I love how HZD's combat is so different from other games. It's not about complicated combos. It's not about getting better gear. It's not just the same boring button mash contest (looking at you BOTW). You gotta know how to take down each individual robot and that's complicated at first but in the end, you feel like loving batman.


Pretty much nailed it. I played HZD and BotW back to back and HZD was soooooo much more fun and rewarding to me, especially in the combat. HZD is very much about having a plan, realizing the plan went awry, and having a backup plan save you by the skin of your teeth with some quick thinking

Once you know the robot pretty well then all the fun comes in just rushing in wildly and trying other methods to gently caress poo poo up.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat
I mean, I get that and I played the hell out of the Witcher games which were also about setting up the combat before you fight so you will win but for some reason Horizon didn't land for me. Loved the setting and character but the combat I bounced off of.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Lechtansi posted:

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play games, and difficulty modes are awesome but I could see people getting tripped up by Horizon: Zero Dawn's combat because it doesn't play like most games. You can't just brute force your way through. It's tactical. The game really rewards knowing how to fight and being prepared, compared to just grinding and increasing your numbers.

tether gun, nock three arrows of the desired type, fire. there, you've discovered how to beat every robot on every difficulty

Ruffian Price
Sep 17, 2016

note that the hardest difficulty in HZD completely switches up the enemy AI, it's not just a numbers game

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Far Cry: New Dawn may not be terribly original given that it is the sixth consecutive game in the sandbox-shooter mould since 3, but it does revise many of the issues of 5. Definitely worth buying on sale for 12 dollary-doos.
  • You get a knife from the start instead of having to bonk people on the head with a blunt instrument all the time.
  • There's no fiddling with redundant weapon attachments.
  • Being a glorified expansion-pack it isn't long enough to wear out it's welcome like the mainline games. It probably would have been better if they hadn't bothered with 5's crummy DLC.
  • There's a proper checklist and map-system unlike the last game, so you don't just rub every corner of the map in search of that last 1%.
  • You don't kidnapped a dozen times everytime you pass an arbitrary threshold. The arc of the plot hinges on you gathering specialists and materials to help build a colony.
  • You get to kill the dickhead from the last game without the hand of the author descending from the heavens to scold you.
  • Post-apocalyptic Montana is surprisingly less hostile than Trump-era Montana.

Inspector Gesicht has a new favorite as of 03:12 on Jul 4, 2021

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




I completely ignored the element system in HZD before I finally broke down and asked people in the PS4 thread what the gently caress I was supposed to do because I was constantly running out of arrow heads fighting things. I just refused to bother with hitting anything's weaknesses because I had JRPG status effect brain about it for some reason. Also they took so little damage from the fire, electric, etc arrows on their own. Once I found out that hitting weaknesses turns everything into an AOE explosion, the game got a whole lot more managable aside from Stormterrors.

No matter how high I stacked the mods on the ropecaster they always tore themselves free no problem.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

RareAcumen posted:

I completely ignored the element system in HZD before I finally broke down and asked people in the PS4 thread what the gently caress I was supposed to do because I was constantly running out of arrow heads fighting things. I just refused to bother with hitting anything's weaknesses because I had JRPG status effect brain about it for some reason. Also they took so little damage from the fire, electric, etc arrows on their own. Once I found out that hitting weaknesses turns everything into an AOE explosion, the game got a whole lot more managable aside from Stormterrors.

No matter how high I stacked the mods on the ropecaster they always tore themselves free no problem.

The dark secret of JRPG status effects is that a lot of them are actually incredibly useful but "obviously these suck" has gotten so ingrained in people's mind that they tend to not use them. This also leads to JRPGs having hilariously ridiculously OP status effects because since people don't use them they keep getting stealth buffed to try to make them more worthwhile.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
Buffing status effects while continuing to make bosses immune to them is peak JRPG

LeastActionHero
Oct 23, 2008

ImpAtom posted:

The dark secret of JRPG status effects is that a lot of them are actually incredibly useful but "obviously these suck" has gotten so ingrained in people's mind that they tend to not use them. This also leads to JRPGs having hilariously ridiculously OP status effects because since people don't use them they keep getting stealth buffed to try to make them more worthwhile.

If it takes longer to experiment with status effects and figure out what's useful, compared to just grinding up a bit beforehand, then status effects are a bad strategy for a new player. This is easily true because JPRGs love to make status effects
1) Work 50% of the time or less
2) Fail on immune enemies without any special message
3) Be totally incoherent to the enemy type

Experimenting for 20 minutes to figure out what status is worth using is worse than grinding for 20 minutes, because grinding also means you're stronger for everything else in the future, whereas you probably won't be worried about that enemy ever again.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Yeah in the short term it always seems to make more sense to just do damage because that ends the fight fastest, so it's another thing where games could stand to signpost that "this is actually quite useful if applied properly" followed by "this is probably an enemy this will be good against."

Of all things Pokemon is kinda good at this. It doesn't take long to work out that paralyzing a foe or confusing them is *really useful* and something worth trying for.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
Mass Effect 3 is a game with plenty of issues, but the developers knocked the ball out of the park on the Leviathan and Citadel DLC. I was tearing up from laughing so hard at Grunt's scene in Citadel.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat
The Citadel DLC was just so good. Just miles ahead of what I was expecting. Plus Wrex punches a car to death.

Count Uvula
Dec 20, 2011

---
The Etrian Odyssey series is pretty much the king of useful JRPG status effects and you're forced to learn that fact if you don't want your poo poo kicked in by some early game minibosses. Maxing out a poison skill in the first stratum makes it deal as much damage as 2-3 of your party members combined.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




ImpAtom posted:

The dark secret of JRPG status effects is that a lot of them are actually incredibly useful but "obviously these suck" has gotten so ingrained in people's mind that they tend to not use them. This also leads to JRPGs having hilariously ridiculously OP status effects because since people don't use them they keep getting stealth buffed to try to make them more worthwhile.

Yeah I don't know how I also internalized that too. I mean, Dragon Quest is kinda hit or miss on dazzle or paralyze working on people but the only other things that I tried are yeah, Pokemon and Etrian Odyssey.

I've been making a ton of use out of them lately though, because I decided to replay the second FFTactics game on the DS and all the clans that show up once you unlock the auctions are so loving strong and tanky that I need them blinded and put to sleep to have a hope of whittling them down for a victory. At least the two bangaa heavy ones.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Even better is SMTI and II. You get guns that can hit the entire enemy party and bullets that can inflict Charm. Nearly no Demons are immune to charm or Bullets so ninety nine percent of fights are one turn of you mowing down the enemy party with machine guns, and then watching them tear themselves apart.

Bosses can also be susceptible to Shock which prevents them from acting, So if you're faster than them you can defeat them without them ever taking an action

Phy
Jun 27, 2008



Fun Shoe
I don't remember if FF6's status effects were worth a drat (outside of abusing vanish/doom) but 7's weren't, and considering that it introduced a lot of people to the jrpg form factor, I think that might have contributed to cultural osmosis even if you never touched it yourself

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

Phy posted:

I don't remember if FF6's status effects were worth a drat (outside of abusing vanish/doom) but 7's weren't, and considering that it introduced a lot of people to the jrpg form factor, I think that might have contributed to cultural osmosis even if you never touched it yourself

They sucked in 6 too. The romhack/total conversion Brave New World reworks this though and makes status effects not only usable, but often times critical.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Phy posted:

I don't remember if FF6's status effects were worth a drat (outside of abusing vanish/doom) but 7's weren't, and considering that it introduced a lot of people to the jrpg form factor, I think that might have contributed to cultural osmosis even if you never touched it yourself

I'm pretty sure 6 was the game where blind did literally nothing other than make your character wear some rad shades :c00l:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

LeastActionHero posted:

If it takes longer to experiment with status effects and figure out what's useful, compared to just grinding up a bit beforehand, then status effects are a bad strategy for a new player. This is easily true because JPRGs love to make status effects
1) Work 50% of the time or less
2) Fail on immune enemies without any special message
3) Be totally incoherent to the enemy type

Experimenting for 20 minutes to figure out what status is worth using is worse than grinding for 20 minutes, because grinding also means you're stronger for everything else in the future, whereas you probably won't be worried about that enemy ever again.

The thing though is that isn't really the case. It's one of those things people repeat that doesn't actually mesh up to fact and even then is generally stuck around the very specific "FF4-6 SNES" era which had a few problems beyond that. (Such as Bliind as a status effect not even working in FF6) It's a self-fulfilling prophecy where people go "status effects are useless" and then never use them/just grind and then continue to stick to the mindset of 'status effects are useless." Part of this is born from the fact that SNES era Final Fantasy games were both easy as piss and didn't provide good information but part of it is simply people not trying things because they've been told not to try them.

Another big part of it is mixing all status effects into one generic Status Effect pool and assuming they all function the same. Instant-win spells (death/paralysis/whatever) do have lower success rates and more immunities because they are designed to allow you to instantly defeat a foe. This doesn't apply to all status effects but people tend to go for the most powerful biggest one and then ignore anything smaller/that doesn't make a big number appear, while the big benefit of most status effects is defensive and the biggest reason to grind isn't to do more damage but to take less damage.

And it's also as mentioned a very 90s Final Fantasy centric viewpoint. You can't really apply that as readily to something like Shin Megami Tensei which has absurdly powerful status effects and instant-kill spells. Dragon Quest has varied somewhat but frequently has Sap, Poison and Sleep be varying degrees of very powerful. Legend of Heroes has some absurdly strong status effects and tons of ways to apply them. (Indeed abilities that can apply multiple status effects at once are often terribly OP). Phantasy Star has spectacular status effect spells which often define a character, etc, etc. Even modern Final Fantasy games are all-in on status effects and usually have a Libra or similar spell that will show exactly who is vulnerable to what. FFXIII and its spinoffs even have dedicated debuffing classes. Not to mention Monster Trainer games like Pokemon where saying status effects are worthless is hilariously untrue.

Despite the reputation it's pretty rare for JRPGs, especially modern JRPGs, to require you to grind unless it is something like Disgaea where getting the biggest hugest most overwhelming number via grinding is such the entire point of the game that it literally becomes the plot. It's just that people keep repeating the same things they remembered from childhood and it becomes 'fact' without actually being backed up by actual facts.

Phy posted:

I don't remember if FF6's status effects were worth a drat (outside of abusing vanish/doom) but 7's weren't, and considering that it introduced a lot of people to the jrpg form factor, I think that might have contributed to cultural osmosis even if you never touched it yourself

FF6 was easy enough you didn't need to bother but they could be very powerful. Berserk for example shuts down most magic-focused enemies (including the boss in the Tower of Kefka). It also had Vanish which few things resisted and made enemies extra vulnerable to almost every status effect in the game. (This is actually the cause of the infamous X-Zone bug because it also removed resistance to that insta-kill.)

FF7 also is another case of status effects being good but the game being so easy you didn't really need them especially with materia combos. A lot of powerful enemies are vulnerable to poison for example which does massive-rear end damage in FF7. Sadly Blind/Darkness is ALSO broken in FF7 so it's basically worthless.

But one good example of a status effect being OP in FF7 is that poison allows you to trivially kill Midgar Zolom the first time through the swamp. Poison does 1/32 of the target's HP each time it goes off and that's a lot of free damage for that time in the game. It makes it pretty easy to learn Beta from it right away and Beta is so hilariously OP it can carry you through the rest of the game.

(Speaking of which, Blue Magic often relies on status effects for maximum effectiveness and is where some of the REALLY broken status effects lay. Bad Breath is one example but Gau in FF6 has a status effect called Charm which can literally disable every enemy in the game including the final boss.)

ImpAtom has a new favorite as of 21:00 on Jul 4, 2021

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply