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Gaius Marius posted:I'm gonna say something controversial yet incredibly brave. Please hold on. suck my dick
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Jul 4, 2021 23:12
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I didn't see Haro in there but I might have missed him
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Jul 4, 2021 23:14
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tsob posted:How? There's nothing to that scene beyond Hathaway remembering a thing that happened to him in the past that reminds him of the present; what's Newtype about that? Don't worry I can understand this perfectly, and am trying to find a way to explain it to the rest of you. However everytime I previously start typing I end up sounding insane So i'm working on my phrasing Stairmaster posted:suck my dick Even Jesus was hated when he spoke the truth
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Jul 4, 2021 23:25
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Gaius Marius posted:Even Jesus was hated when he spoke the truth The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Jul 4, 2021 23:48
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Well, that was quite an interesting movie. I really like how it showed more noncombat sides of the setting, which were some of my favourite parts of Unicorn. The Mafty base on the underside of the colony wreckage was really neat. The CGI was handled really well but there were definitely some parts that threw me. Nothing with the action scenes, mind you. The stuff that threw me was more the Roger Rabbit effect I was getting with some of the photorealistic scenes where suddenly an anime character walks around. It threw me for a bit. It's definitely part one of a trilogy though, and I did have some trouble following along with all the Mafty characters. Felt like they were throwing too many people into the third act all at once which was a shame because up until the point where Hathaway gets to the base the film was doing a really good job of introducing each character and giving them little bits of characterization here and there. There were just too many people at the end and none of them got enough screentime to really stand out to me. Dropping Hathaway's girlfriend into the movie three minutes before the credits roll feels like it would be a gag in a different film to explain why he was so distant with Gigi. Kenneth Sleg is quite the antagonist. Outwardly he gives off Sleggar Law vibes to me but then he's also something of a sociopath who seems to enjoy torture. The dub was also pretty sharp, though I'll admit my bias and say I wish that they had gotten Brad Swaile to read out the quote about when the Reaper comes. He is Amuro to my ears. I'm interested to see where it goes next. Hathaway's inner declaration that he wants to give up all his relationships to embrace the role of Mafty has definite Char vibes to it with Char giving himself up to the cause as a human sacrifice. That was only solidified by Full Frontal doing the same thing and it feels like it will lead Hathaway down a dark path where his commitment to an idea will cost him what is left of his humanity and ultimately backfire against his intended goals. Overall a good movie. Fairly accessible, too but the third act was the weakest part for me. I know it's a staple but they just had to get two ideologically opposed pilots to yell at each other in the heat of battle, shouting their beliefs to the heavens while the rest of the grunt suit pilots look on awkwardly. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jul 4, 2021 |
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Jul 4, 2021 23:52
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Kanos posted:I mean, Chan did fire a missile to "protect" him that quite possibly could have ended up hitting him and killing him - Quess ended up dying by shoving him out of the way and taking the missile hit.
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Jul 5, 2021 00:26
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TenementFunster posted:shut the gently caress up Chan and child killer both start with ch. Really makes you think.
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Jul 5, 2021 01:07
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Kanos posted:Chan and child killer both start with ch.
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Jul 5, 2021 01:14
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Chan, much like her boyfriend, killed a teenage girl piloting a mobile armor by accident when the teenage girl tried to protect someone she cared about.
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Jul 5, 2021 01:17
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man i always got why people got mad at what hathaway did in char's counterattack but i kinda thought everybody realized what the deal was after katz in Zeta but people are still like mad at him like their teenage years wouldn't have been just as bad if they hung out with a gundam protagonist
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Jul 5, 2021 01:21
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muike posted:man i always got why people got mad at what hathaway did in char's counterattack but i kinda thought everybody realized what the deal was after katz in Zeta but people are still like mad at him like their teenage years wouldn't have been just as bad if they hung out with a gundam protagonist Having a reason you suck doesn't magically make you stop sucking.
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Jul 5, 2021 01:40
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hosed up but I might like Survivor more than Raise Your Flag.
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Jul 5, 2021 01:56
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ImpAtom posted:Chan, much like her boyfriend, killed a teenage girl piloting a mobile armor by accident when the teenage girl tried to protect someone she cared about. It's important in a relationship to have points of common interest. muike posted:man i always got why people got mad at what hathaway did in char's counterattack but i kinda thought everybody realized what the deal was after katz in Zeta but people are still like mad at him like their teenage years wouldn't have been just as bad if they hung out with a gundam protagonist Katz and Hathaway basically just do normal dumbshit Gundam protagonist things except they're not the protagonist of the shows they're in so it doesn't work out for them. Katz in particular is almost literally a "I learned it by watching you!" meme.
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Jul 5, 2021 02:29
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chiasaur11 posted:Having a reason you suck doesn't magically make you stop sucking. like yeah he's a lovely brat with awful role models
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Jul 5, 2021 04:02
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Katz dying to a rock was hilarious though
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Jul 5, 2021 04:49
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God Katz trying to be Amuro despite not being Amuro and getting killed by something like that is so on the nose and so many people just went "if I was Katz I simply would not have crashed and died and would have been a bad rear end"
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Jul 5, 2021 04:53
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Gaius Marius posted:Don't worry I can understand this perfectly, and am trying to find a way to explain it to the rest of you. However everytime I previously start typing I end up sounding insane So i'm working on my phrasing I'm surprised you could see through all the vomit you must have thrown all over the screen when all that CGI buttfucked your eyeballs in the face. Or was this one somehow magically good enough for your rarefied tastes?
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Jul 5, 2021 04:58
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muike posted:God Katz trying to be Amuro despite not being Amuro and getting killed by something like that is so on the nose and so many people just went "if I was Katz I simply would not have crashed and died and would have been a bad rear end" The difference for Amuro and Kamille is that they hit a point where they were forced to confront how much they were screwing up and they sorta sort their stuff out. Meanwhile, Katz is sure he's the Gundam Protagonist type and doesn't learn his lessons after a crisis. Thus, Kamille's relationship with Katz later on of "Hey, look. I was there a couple months ago. This will get people killed." Which Katz does not learn from.
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Jul 5, 2021 05:04
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oh definitely but I think the tragedy for katz is that he never really gets the chance for that wake up call and everyone around him is already too messed up to give it to him. Amuro and Kamille were kind of in the right place at the right time and also possessed the innate skill to survive.
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Jul 5, 2021 05:07
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It's amazing how much poo poo they let him get away with. Just how many times does the lad sneak out without permission onto the battlefield. They shoulda dropped his rear end at port first opportunity
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Jul 5, 2021 05:08
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Midjack posted:buttfucked your eyeballs in the face. Gonna need a diagram here chief
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Jul 5, 2021 05:26
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Gaius Marius posted:It's amazing how much poo poo they let him get away with. Just how many times does the lad sneak out without permission onto the battlefield. They shoulda dropped his rear end at port first opportunity I think a lot of that had to do with them being like "oh he was on white base he must have a lot of amuro's sensibilities" Katz definitely wouldn't have got put in any of this situations if they just treated him like a normal kid but they assumed he HAD to be special
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Jul 5, 2021 05:29
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muike posted:I think a lot of that had to do with them being like "oh he was on white base he must have a lot of amuro's sensibilities" Katz definitely wouldn't have got put in any of this situations if they just treated him like a normal kid but they assumed he HAD to be special I mean Bright had a 100% success rate up until that point, and one hundred percent afterwords of just throwing teenagers into battle against actual soldiers. It does make his talk with Banana way funnier in UC though. "Yeah I usually just throw some teens on the battlefield and that usually sorts the whole problem out"
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Jul 5, 2021 06:14
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Bright was always lucky and/or realized he was on a ship with cool teens
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Jul 5, 2021 06:20
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muike posted:I think a lot of that had to do with them being like "oh he was on white base he must have a lot of amuro's sensibilities" Katz definitely wouldn't have got put in any of this situations if they just treated him like a normal kid but they assumed he HAD to be special That was how people treated him initially, but after the initial episodes where Kamille was afraid Katz was taking his job, the only person who assumed Katz was Ultra Special was Katz. Kamille was continually trying to get him to cool down, consider the situation, and realize that, hey, what he was doing would get people killed, maybe including him. But Katz kept thinking he was special, and in the end, he died without accomplishing much, leaving his family broken and grieving. (All Amuro expected of him was that he'd shoot Char if he tried anything. But Katz didn't manage that either.)
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Jul 5, 2021 06:57
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Gaius Marius posted:I'm gonna say something controversial yet incredibly brave. Please hold on. Unironically agreed. I would've enjoyed Hathaway more if the movie didn't have a bunch of glacially slow "action" scenes where you can't see poo poo. Like maybe this'll be a rebuild 3 situation where I rewatch it 7 years in the future and go "man this is actually really cool" but the parts with the mobile suits were, to me, a snoozefest mess while the rest of it was good enough to make me like Hathaway. GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 5, 2021 12:32
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The Messer fight was good since it was from a people-on-the-ground perspective but I didn't care much for Penelope vs Xi.
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Jul 5, 2021 12:55
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Arcsquad12 posted:The Messer fight was good since it was from a people-on-the-ground perspective but I didn't care much for Penelope vs Xi. I liked the Messer fight when it was showing how the beams the combatants fired off without thought were cutting through random houses, while the debris it spattered melted through street posts and caused potholes in the ground as random floods of people ran screaming. I liked it less when it was "the fight and it's consequences seem to be following Hathaway with a loving laser", as everything constantly happened coincidentally around him even when Gawman had no idea where Hathaway was.
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Jul 5, 2021 13:01
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Ibblebibble posted:hosed up but I might like Survivor more than Raise Your Flag. Rage of Dust is even better.
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Jul 5, 2021 13:06
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So I slept on it and I think I'll move Hathaway down from "pretty good" to just "okay". I like the first two thirds but that last third kinda falls apart once he manages to ditch Gigi and Kenneth. I think I'll have to reserve judgement for when the trilogy is finished because I'm not sure Hathaway works that well as a standalone film. I said it felt like part one of a story but now I think that the whole movie feels like an Act 1. It's hard to find good stopping points in films that are based on novels too long to adapt into single movies. Lord of the Rings managed to pull it off with some significant changes to story structure and pacing but not many other movies can manage the same and I don't think Hathaway is quite up to the task of making a standalone film. The fight between the Xi and Penelope doesn't feel built up, and it doesn't feel like a conclusion either. It's the third act of the film but it's the opening action scene of Hathaway's Flash Act 2 that feels tacked onto the movie in order to satisfy a producer mandated gundam fight. I like the slower pace of most of the film as all the pieces are moving into place but that jump in Act 3 to having twenty different Mafty characters and starting off the plot that Hathaway wanted to get to before he got sidetracked by Gigi and Kenneth feels pretty jarring.
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Jul 5, 2021 13:41
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I'm also not sure why Hathaway is so taken with Gigi in the story. I mean, I get that she's a beautiful and mysterious Newytpe so he's physically and emotionally attracted to her despite having a girlfriend, but what I don't get is why he goes out of his way to drag her away from a fight that keeps following him above going with allies he'd arranged the entire fight that was killing civilians just to meet up with. It doesn't even seem to have a purpose. He's dragging her away because...what, exactly? She knows he's Mafty, and not only knows but seems to endorse Mafty's actions and thinks he should be more extreme if anything going by their chat in the hotel. Then when he arranges to go with them, he decides to ditch his allies to pull her away from them for no reason I can determine despite the loss of life his actions are causing. Then afterwards he's fine with her leaving anyway, because he wants to distance himself from human connection in order to be a better symbol. It seems like such a weird angle. It'd be one thing if Gigi was his girlfriend or it was his girlfriend that he was torn on distancing himself from, but why even have that entire scene if he's just going to be fine with distancing himself from her AND has a girlfriend we barely see? Why does the girlfriend even exist at all?
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Jul 5, 2021 14:01
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tsob posted:I'm also not sure why Hathaway is so taken with Gigi in the story. I mean, I get that she's a beautiful and mysterious Newytpe so he's physically and emotionally attracted to her despite having a girlfriend, but what I don't get is why he goes out of his way to drag her away from a fight that keeps following him above going with allies he'd arranged the entire fight that was killing civilians just to meet up with. It doesn't even seem to have a purpose. He's dragging her away because...what, exactly? She knows he's Mafty, and not only knows but seems to endorse Mafty's actions and thinks he should be more extreme if anything going by their chat in the hotel. Then when he arranges to go with them, he decides to ditch his allies to pull her away from them for no reason I can determine despite the loss of life his actions are causing. Then afterwards he's fine with her leaving anyway, because he wants to distance himself from human connection in order to be a better symbol. It seems like such a weird angle. It'd be one thing if Gigi was his girlfriend or it was his girlfriend that he was torn on distancing himself from, but why even have that entire scene if he's just going to be fine with distancing himself from her AND has a girlfriend we barely see? Why does the girlfriend even exist at all? He's still doubtful about being the big tough terrorist man who does things that absolutely will hurt innocent people. He spent a day wandering around town and talking to people about Mafty to random civilians to try to psyche himself up about how he was doing the right thing, and even then he got punched back on his heels a bit by stuff like the cab driver bit. When the attack came, he ends up with an absolutely terrified innocent girl who is in this situation 100% entirely because of him and she's so shell-shocked by what's happening that she absolutely would get killed(see her screaming and reaching for her burning purse despite robots fighting like 50 feet in front of her) if he just ran off and left her. He doesn't want to hook up with his allies while he's escorting her because operational security would demand that they either 1. kidnap her or 2. kill her. He's not fine with her leaving because he's trying to distance himself from human connection, it's because he doesn't want to forcibly drag her into what he's doing, he's not consciously interested in her romantically (yet?), and he doesn't want her death on his conscience. His girlfriend exists because it's part 1 of a trilogy and she will presumably be a more important character going forward, so no ideas yet there.
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Jul 5, 2021 16:54
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Kanos posted:When the attack came, he ends up with an absolutely terrified innocent girl who is in this situation 100% entirely because of him and she's so shell-shocked by what's happening that she absolutely would get killed(see her screaming and reaching for her burning purse despite robots fighting like 50 feet in front of her) if he just ran off and left her. He doesn't want to hook up with his allies while he's escorting her because operational security would demand that they either 1. kidnap her or 2. kill her. That's part of what I don't understand though. Gigi is absolutely in favor of what Mafty is doing going by her everything up to that point, including their conversation in the hotel about how Mafty could solve things by forming an ideal government (which sounds more like a fascist state the way she describes it), so why was he opposed to just taking her with him when he goes to meet up with the rest of his allies? It wouldn't be kidnapping, given she appeared to want to be beside him and supported Mafty's goals, and only ends up latching onto Kenneth because Hathaway isn't living up to the man she wants him to be essentially. They'd also only have to kill her if she didn't actually want to be part of Mafty or would rat on them. Which she wouldn't consciously do, because she supports their goals and tried to keep Hathaway's identity secret; only spilling it by complete accident. Let's not pretend that operational security would demand she die regardless, because realism like actual protocols for operational security has always taken a backseat to narrative and drama in Gundam so there's no reason it'd have to happen in this instance if Hathaway met up with his allies while with her. tsob fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 5, 2021 17:37
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How exactly did she spill it? That scene ended so abruptly after Kenneth went "hey wait a minute!" and I honestly didn't catch what she let slip.
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Jul 5, 2021 17:40
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tsob posted:That's part of what I don't understand though. Gigi is absolutely in favor of what Mafty is doing going by her everything up to that point, including their conversation in the hotel about how Mafty could solve things by forming an ideal government (which sounds more like a fascist state the way she describes it), so why was he opposed to just taking her with him when he goes to meet up with the rest of his allies? It wouldn't be kidnapping, given she appeared to want to be beside him and supported Mafty's goals, and only ends up latching onto Kenneth because Hathaway isn't living up to the man she wants him to be essentially. They'd also only have to kill her if she didn't actually want to be part of Mafty or would rat on them. Which she wouldn't consciously do, because she supports their goals and tried to keep Hathaway's identity secret; only spilling it by complete accident. Let's not pretend that operational security would demand she die regardless, because realism like actual protocols for operational security has always taken a backseat to narrative and drama in Gundam so there's no reason it'd have to happen in this instance if Hathaway met up with his allies while with her. Gigi is in favor of what Mafty's doing and talks a big game about "well why doesn't Mafty just take over" because she's naive as hell and doesn't actually understand what that would entail. She completely goes to pieces the moment the attack happens and she sees what real war entails. Additionally, there's a pretty strong reason why Hathaway Noa maybe wouldn't want to deliberately draw a young, naive newtype girl that he feels a connection to into a war that has functionally nothing to do with her. Arcsquad12 posted:How exactly did she spill it? That scene ended so abruptly after Kenneth went "hey wait a minute!" and I honestly didn't catch what she let slip. Kenneth mentions how any soldier would love to have a goddess of victory like her around, and Gigi murmurs that Hathaway didn't want her around, and the gears turn in Kenneth's head because Hathaway was already pretty suspicious due to his presence on the Hauzen and his weirdly proficient combat abilities for someone who's supposed to be a botanist and last fought as a kid over a decade ago. Kanos fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 5, 2021 17:55
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Kanos posted:Additionally, there's a pretty strong reason why Hathaway Noa maybe wouldn't want to deliberately draw a young, naive newtype girl that he feels a connection to into a war that has functionally nothing to do with her. I guess, but it still seems like it'd be far simpler and more effective to just have Emerelda guard her while Hathaway gets picked up so that he can not waste the death of civilians. It's not like Emerelda can't just leave Gigi somewhere besides the Mafty base anyway. As is, him pulling her around basically exposed her as much as having his friend guard her while he went off fighting ever would have. It just comes off as a weird choice by Hathaway, and I know ultimately it just exists to facilitate plot but it kind of pulled me out of things a little. Alongside the previously mentioned "why do all the consequences of this battle keep following them in particular around, despite no-one fighting being aware of them?" aspect.
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Jul 5, 2021 18:35
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yes, why does this striking, dynamic scene which serves as the signature visual for the entire film happen? the world may never know.
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Jul 5, 2021 18:47
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tsob posted:I guess, but it still seems like it'd be far simpler and more effective to just have Emerelda guard her while Hathaway gets picked up so that he can not waste the death of civilians. It's not like Emerelda can't just leave Gigi somewhere besides the Mafty base anyway. As is, him pulling her around basically exposed her as much as having his friend guard her while he went off fighting ever would have. It just comes off as a weird choice by Hathaway, and I know ultimately it just exists to facilitate plot but it kind of pulled me out of things a little. Alongside the previously mentioned "why do all the consequences of this battle keep following them in particular around, despite no-one fighting being aware of them?" aspect. Hathaway is still not entirely sure that Gigi knows he's Mafty, and since he doesn't want to pull Gigi into the conflict, he's not going to be terribly eager to give her any information about his organization. Having Gigi be "guarded" by a stranger who seems to be obeying Hathaway's orders - something which presents its own problems, because Gigi at this point is completely shell-shocked and in a state of borderline psychotic panic so it's not going to be easy for a stranger to keep her calm and under control - both directly confirms that he's involved with the attack and also means that Gigi will have knowledge about what at least one of his subordinates looks like, which is not a good thing unless they're planning to take her along. Given Kenneth is shown to be a sadistic shithead with a penchant for torturing information out of people, this seems to vindicate Hathaway giving Gigi as little information as possible before leaving her behind being the best choice for her continued welfare. The consequences of the battle keep following them around because they're at Ground Zero for the mission. They're literally in the hotel that Gauman shoots and lands next to, so of course most of the fighting is going to occur in and around that area.
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Jul 5, 2021 18:55
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its called karma
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Jul 5, 2021 19:05
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Kanos posted:Hathaway is still not entirely sure that Gigi knows he's Mafty. What? She confirms she knows when they talk in the lounge while waiting around after the Haunzen has landed. There is absolutely no ambiguity there. She literally calls him by name, and lists out things that tipped her off to it followed by Hathaway internally thinking she can see through lies and asking her to keep it quiet. So it's not even like he could be seen as thinking she's just bluffing and that lying harder will put her off track or something. Also, Hathaway and Gigi run away from the hotel and the mobile suits follow them to the same park they run towards, including landing basically on top of them twice. It's fine as a convenience that it followed them since it's a visually appealing fight with good weight/consequence, but it'd still be fine if it was happening to random characters and not the two main characters specifically. It's not like Gawman needed to be taken out of his suit in front of Hathaway or Gigi needed that extra pressure to remain paniced either. It just pulled me out of the film a bit that the action seemed to be following them. It's not like I didn't enjoy the film or even that one fight because of it; it just seemed odd to me is all.
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Jul 5, 2021 19:06
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