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Come now, it's possible to appreciate both P5 and P4 without getting hung up over which is better. I'm in November of P4 and I like it a lot, and I'm looking forward to trying P3 afterwards. Though there's a lot of arguing about whether P3P or FES is the better version and I'm not sure I want to play the same game with minor variations two times over.
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Jul 4, 2021 00:26
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P3P adds in some really nice QoL features like warping around, the FEMC, and of course party control. But, there is something about actually being able to walk around in the game that I miss. I think I would recommend FES for a first playthrough and then save P3P if you ever decide you want to play the game again in a few years or something. The FEMC route also removes some party dynamic stuff that I really like, like how it totally smoothed over Yukari and Junpei and strips them both of a lot of development.
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Jul 4, 2021 00:51
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P3P removes too much atmosphere for me to recommend for a first play through. The entire setting loses it's sense of character when reduced to a menu driven affair. A second playthrough with the FeMC is also a good way to replay the game without it feeling too stale which is nice
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Jul 4, 2021 00:54
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I don't think male route P3 is very... good, for what it's worth
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Jul 4, 2021 00:57
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Gaius Marius posted:P3P removes too much atmosphere for me to recommend for a first play through. The entire setting loses it's sense of character when reduced to a menu driven affair. A second playthrough with the FeMC is also a good way to replay the game without it feeling too stale which is nice I think P3P's warping also really sucks the atmospheric tension out of January and all of the gradual changes associated with it. You pretty much entirely forget that the Lost are a thing when you aren't walking by them all the time and are just menuing everywhere
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Jul 4, 2021 01:26
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That's not enough to make having to run everywhere compelling, though Besides, there's still Memories of the City playing
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Jul 4, 2021 01:27
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girl dick energy posted:I'm still not 100% on why 'EGS exclusive' is such a terrible curse. People complain about it, I can't help but hear the "Steam exclusive" complaints from a decade ago. Because particularly when it started companies would put the games they were confident in out on Steam and make their bad games Epic Store exclusives so they'd get Epic moneys to make up for lower expectated sales
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Jul 4, 2021 05:13
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neonchameleon posted:Because particularly when it started companies would put the games they were confident in out on Steam and make their bad games Epic Store exclusives so they'd get Epic moneys to make up for lower expectated sales Also Epic's entire business plan is actually to force Steam out of business if you pay attention to what they're trying to do. At least, corporate conspiracy theory can make a solid case for it, seeing as the Epic Store loses money and everything with Fortnite vs Apple.
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Jul 4, 2021 05:18
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Right, so it's literally all the same argument people made ten years ago about how bad Steam is. Got it.
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Jul 4, 2021 05:43
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girl dick energy posted:Right, so it's literally all the same argument people made ten years ago about how bad Steam is. Got it. Except there is a better alternative now, called steam.
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Jul 4, 2021 19:23
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happy 4th of july everyone (how convenient this makes up exactly for my "investment" in a holy stone lol) 
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Jul 4, 2021 20:49
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I wish I wasn't ten years late to the Persona 4 party. I hit the "Warning: poo poo is about to get real. Save? Y/N" point and what happens immediately after would have hit a lot harder if I didn't already know the broad strokes of what was going to go down already. If anybody is on the fence about P4 but somehow hasn't had the entire story spoiled to hell and back yet then go play it before it's too late. A fakeout death is cheap as poo poo though, I think they should have made it stick. It would have made the story a lot more interesting, made Namatame a more interesting character than just "nutty but ultimately just misguided fuckup", and generally underscored to everybody involved that they need to stop loving around and actually take things seriously now that there's a dead little girl cooling in the morgue. And yes I managed to navigate the dialog tree to avoid the early bad ending although I misread one of the options so I had to go back and try again a couple of times. Also how are Kanji and Rise casually going on a recon run in TV world when Teddie is missing? it is repeatedly stated that Teddie is the only being with the power to create exits from the otherworld, Himiko doesn't have that capability as far as I'm aware? unless... Rise is the real killer?  gotta dispose of the competition before they hook up with senpai
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Jul 5, 2021 02:01
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Counterpoint: Fans might have stormed Atlus HQ if Nanako was killed off for real in the main storyline 
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Jul 5, 2021 03:52
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Sapozhnik posted:A fakeout death is cheap as poo poo though, I think they should have made it stick. It would have made the story a lot more interesting, made Namatame a more interesting character than just "nutty but ultimately just misguided fuckup", and generally underscored to everybody involved that they need to stop loving around and actually take things seriously now that there's a dead little girl cooling in the morgue. And yes I managed to navigate the dialog tree to avoid the early bad ending although I misread one of the options so I had to go back and try again a couple of times. Thing is, they already did that whole "gently caress, somebody died so we gotta take this seriously!" with Morooka and, well, P4 didn't make you care about Morooka at all.
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Jul 5, 2021 06:03
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Acerbatus posted:Except there is a better alternative now, called steam.
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Jul 5, 2021 19:23
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So this is a random, dumb question but I've always wondered about Kanji's name. I know one part of the Japanese writing system is called kanji. So isn't Kanji's name like being called Letter or Alphabet or something? Is there more of a difference in Japanese between the word kanji and the name Kanji?
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Jul 5, 2021 21:18
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It's just a homophone, like a girl called april isn't associated with the month.
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Jul 5, 2021 21:25
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This might be an unpopular opinion but Royal tries a little too hard to make Kasumi the main girl
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Jul 5, 2021 21:32
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NikkolasKing posted:So this is a random, dumb question but I've always wondered about Kanji's name. Disclaimer: My Japanese is mediocre at best and playing through this series in Japanese is very much a learning process for me. So a big reason why Japanese continues to use Chinese characters is that there's a whole bunch of words that all sound like each other and without any immediate context it helps to be able to write them differently to disambiguate them. Kanji's name is written 完二 and I don't really know enough to say whether that choice of characters for his name has any particular meaning. As I understand it there is a large degree of freedom when it comes to assigning Chinese characters to peoples' names. "kanji" can mean chinese character (漢字) sure, but the most common word with that pronunciation is probably 感じ, which means feeling, impression, or emotion (although "emotion" would more commonly use the word 感情, kanjyou. I think). Come to think of it I think Rise makes a pun on his name at one point. Incidentally Yumi (実結)'s name characters have some significance which is explicitly remarked upon in the course of her S-Link. Some sort of allusion to the expression 実を結ぶ (mi wo musubu, to bear fruit). Maybe that's explicitly spelled out in the English translation idk. Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 5, 2021 23:17
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girl dick energy posted:Maybe I'm just more alright than most people with Valve not having a monopoly on digital distribution of PC games. I’d agree if Epic Games Store was not absolute garbage, and wasn’t trying to run Steam out of business to become the digital PC games distribution monopoly.
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Jul 6, 2021 02:19
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I really doubt they even imagine trying to "run steam out of business". They are trying to leverage their current glut of money into a creating another source of longterm profit similar to valve tho. My beefs with steam concern their treatment of smaller devs and games which epic certainly wouldn't rectify, so when it comes to meaningfully escaping their sphere I care more about elevating platforms like itch than rooting for another giant corp to establish itself.
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Jul 6, 2021 02:34
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Considering the Epic Games Store doesn’t just lose them money, but will continue to lose them money until 2035 based on the stuff they released during the Epic vs Apple legal dispute. I doubt this is about securing a future income. Like they have a document explicitly about them planning to target Apple over the Fortnite thing, they almost definitely have documents for their anti-steam plan. Agreed though on the support Itch and such thing. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jul 6, 2021 |
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Jul 6, 2021 03:05
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Carlosologist posted:This might be an unpopular opinion but Royal tries a little too hard to make Kasumi the main girl I think they did a good job of putting her in the story for the most part, but she's still one of the Not Makotos.
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Jul 6, 2021 03:20
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Speaking of which, I know this gets me zero points but how can you not pick it
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Jul 6, 2021 03:37
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That was a pretty satisfying end battle for the base game Persona 4 content. It's still a stupid Razer Orb From Nowhere that rants for fifteen minutes about humanity's desires and then attacks you, but unlike P5 the model doesn't look like a computer graphics student's sophomore project and the battle theme is a pretty nice jam. Seriously the P5-original end battle theme was such a wet fart, especially after Rivers in the Desert. But then everything about P5's ending was intensely unsatisfying. At least in my opinion.
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Jul 6, 2021 04:20
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girl dick energy posted:Maybe I'm just more alright than most people with Valve not having a monopoly on digital distribution of PC games. Of the last four games I bought one was EA Origin (although that's about my fifth game ever there, two were GOG,and one was Steam. Not counting the games Epic gives away or the Game pass I cancelled. Does the Epic Store have a mod manager yet?
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Jul 6, 2021 04:25
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Sapozhnik posted:That was a pretty satisfying end battle for the base game Persona 4 content. Unless I'm misremembering or misunderstanding your post, Razor Orb is not actually the end of Base P4 Content. It's just that Golden squeezes in its new content between that and the "proper" ending, instead of how Royal puts all its new content after the original ending.
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Jul 6, 2021 04:46
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Oh, right, there's still Izanami at the very end isn't there
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Jul 6, 2021 05:38
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Nothing ever tops P3's end boss. The atmosphere, music, and even the boss fight itself is extremely cool. I'm not sure why P4 and P5's final bosses kind of just feel like wet farts in comparison, even their music just feel... eh.
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Jul 6, 2021 06:24
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P4's end boss is incredibly tedious. It doesn't even really have a gimmick just too much hp
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Jul 6, 2021 06:53
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ApplesandOranges posted:Nothing ever tops P3's end boss. The atmosphere, music, and even the boss fight itself is extremely cool. I'm not sure why P4 and P5's final bosses kind of just feel like wet farts in comparison, even their music just feel... eh. I think it helps that P3's end boss is obviously foreshadowed and a part of the story from the very beginning. The story would not be happening if it didn't exist. To contrast, the P4 and P5 end bosses aren't as tied into the story. Sure, they're the reason the human bad guys you've been chasing for the rest of the game have the powers to do the evil things that you are trying to make them stop doing, but they're kind of hands off otherwise. Like, P4 gets a satisfying ending where you don't even fight them or know they exist, which kind of says it all.
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Jul 6, 2021 07:02
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It's like a law that the respective qualities of the supernatural and human end game villains are inversely correlated. P3: Good supernatural, barely present humans. P4: The opposite. P5: Both are just kind of mediocre in the base game, though Maruki is a clear improvement.
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Jul 6, 2021 12:34
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I still think Shido is a great final (human) villain for base P5.
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Jul 6, 2021 16:07
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Shido's a good villain but he really only has ties to Joker. To the other PTs he's mostly 'wow yeah, he's just a scummy adult'. It's why P3's works well, because everyone spends days getting fired up to fight them on their own terms. P4's 'main villain' also has similar issues, where nobody other than MC really has motivations to stop them other than 'okay yeah they're responsible for this mess'. Which is a fine enough motivation, but is a bit lacking for a 70+ hr RPG final boss.
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Jul 6, 2021 16:34
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ApplesandOranges posted:P4's 'main villain' also has similar issues, where nobody other than MC really has motivations to stop them other than 'okay yeah they're responsible for this mess'. Which is a fine enough motivation, but is a bit lacking for a 70+ hr RPG final boss. This seems like an odd interpretation to me. With the initial villain, MC is just about the only one without a direct motivation until the late-game kidnap. I feel like after that when the real villain is revealed, everyone has the same motivation including the MC - they now know what the Shadow World is and more importantly - why it can't be allowed to overlap with ours.
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Jul 6, 2021 17:32
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HaB posted:This seems like an odd interpretation to me. With the initial villain, MC is just about the only one without a direct motivation until the late-game kidnap. I feel like after that when the real villain is revealed, everyone has the same motivation including the MC - they now know what the Shadow World is and more importantly - why it can't be allowed to overlap with ours. It's a good enough goal, but it's very just 'stop it because it's bad'. Of course they'd stop it when they have the ability to do so, especially when there's no 'alternative' like there is in P3.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:09
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I think P4 and P5 both have points where the game has a nice satisfying ending and then the game does not end but instead goes on for another 6+ hours and has a much worse final boss fight. Though, I still think that the P5 Shido fight is kinda underwhelming. Definitely think Akechi should have been the final fight. Shido is just not strong enough of a character to make me feel super threatened by him, especially considering he's basically nobody without Akechi. Like, the game tries to posit Shido as the mastermind and Akechi as the brawn, but Akechi is also the brain because the entire metaverse blackmail/assassination ring was all his idea also. Shido's just some guy who got high on power that Akechi basically handed to him and the game doesn't do enough with him to make me feel like Akechi wasn't a significantly more interesting and impactful villain of the game. Him having a cognitive Akechi as some sort of backup felt like a dumb deus ex thing and it would have been way more fun to have fought Akechi in the ship only for the reveal to be that it was cognitive Akechi and then the final boss is the real one.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:39
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I think P4 and P5 both have points where the game has a nice satisfying ending and then the game does not end but instead goes on for another 6+ hours and has a much worse final boss fight. I get what you’re saying but one of the main themes of P5 is how the men who are entrenched in power use and abuse everyone else and Shido is the ultimate example of that. He’s not actually smarter or more competent than Akechi but because he’s the guy in power he’s got all of the control. I think you probably could have written around that to put Akechi in the final boss situation but having him sacrifice himself for you is a good example of solidarity among the people who suffer, even if it took til the very end to realize it. Shido is just some guy but most of the Palace Rulers were guys who were in the right place to exploit people at the right time. Kamoshida is the one where he actual does have one skill that “regular” people don’t have (athletics) but Madarame, Kaneshiro, Okumura and Shido are all some guy who got high on power that was basically handed to him.
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Jul 6, 2021 21:02
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I think P4 and P5 both have points where the game has a nice satisfying ending and then the game does not end but instead goes on for another 6+ hours and has a much worse final boss fight. I get why Atlus wanted Shido to be the final fight in that Palace, because he's been the mastermind behind all of the crazy poo poo going on before Joker arrived, and he's the reason for Joker being in the lovely position he was in at the start of the game. Several other Phantom Thieves even have personal reasons for wanting to take him down - Futaba for obvious reasons, Haru because Shido had her father killed, even Ann and Ryuji once they found out their new best bud had his life ruined because of the guy. I don't think Atlus quite nailed the execution though. Suddenly finding out all the other Palace owners aside from Kamoshida were part of Shido's conspiracy felt kinda hamfisted to me, and I think there should have been other occurrences of him actively loving over Joker (and being an rear end in a top hat about it) in the storyline to really make the player want to kick his rear end.
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Jul 6, 2021 21:09
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anakha posted:I get why Atlus wanted Shido to be the final fight in that Palace, because he's been the mastermind behind all of the crazy poo poo going on before Joker arrived, and he's the reason for Joker being in the lovely position he was in at the start of the game. Several other Phantom Thieves even have personal reasons for wanting to take him down - Futaba for obvious reasons, Haru because Shido had her father killed, even Ann and Ryuji once they found out their new best bud had his life ruined because of the guy. I mean even then, Akechi was the one who actually pulled the trigger for both Futaba's mom and Haru's dad But yeah, I know what you mean. It makes sense that Shido's the "final" boss, I just don't think they pulled it off in a satisfying way. Rivers in the Desert rules, but there's nothing cathartic about Shido being the one you're beating up
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Jul 6, 2021 21:30
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