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Also set up a network of proto-stargates for inter-cluster Folding (FTL), but that's secondary. Protoculture stuff is funky, the Evil-series found in Macross 30 could do unrestricted time travel.
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Jul 5, 2021 03:15
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RangerKarl posted:Also set up a network of proto-stargates for inter-cluster Folding (FTL), but that's secondary. it's honestly amazing they didn't wipe themselves out sooner
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Jul 5, 2021 06:36
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I like to imagine they were all just average punters until an absolute hell year of mad science ensued.
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Jul 5, 2021 06:44
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuHY_zusbfk
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Jul 5, 2021 14:40
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Fafner I have no idea how you keep getting made, but I’m glad it keeps happening.
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Jul 5, 2021 15:03
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What other mecha series has Kunio Okawara worked out outside of Gundam and Votoms? The dude is probably my favourite mecha designer since I love his big chunky tanks on legs aesthetic.
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Jul 5, 2021 15:48
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Xabungle dourgam layzner. Layzner is apparently not great but xabungle a good watch and I've heard good poo poo about dourgam
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Jul 5, 2021 15:54
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Just watched the first ep of Arc. I didn't even remember it was meant to start now. That was a very ugly first episode but goddamn it hits the Getter excitement just fine anyways, and Bloodlines is an excellent JAM Project song. That said it's probably impossible to understand to anyone that hasn't read the manga and I genuinely cannot understand going for Arc instead of finally doing a proper Getter Robo adaptation which we somehow still haven't gotten.
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Jul 5, 2021 17:01
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Gripweed posted:What did reactivating Protoculture ruins do? As chiasaur says, the Protoculture ruins in Delta let the person singing basically mind control people across galactic distances. Mikumo was originally made as a part of shady UN experiments to try to tap Protoculture technology. The Windermereians were themselves experimenting with using the mind control ruins as a way to win their rebellion(because their lack of numbers would basically mean they had no chance if the UN Spacy fully mobilized against them) and Mikumo kind of falls into their lap and they go "well, that's pretty convenient, good thing our idiotic failson pilots failed to kill Walkure despite trying for the last 20 episodes". Gaius Marius posted:Delta sounds terrible. Glad I never bothered checking it out The plot is boring and sucks, the battle choreography is some of the worst in the franchise(for much of the show it honestly feels like they forgot Valkyries could transform out of plane mode, ffs), and their decision to have a bunch of named characters on both sides who are plot shielded means that it feels like nothing actually happens for most of the show because there's constant fighting in almost every episode but almost no one actually dies as the Windermereians throw themselves at Chaos endlessly but keep getting beaten like Team Rocket. But the show has fantastic music(some of my favorite in the Macross canon!), really good character designs, and a lot of the cast is really fun despite the bland bad show they're in. Walkure are, as characters, pretty much great. In conclusion, Delta is a land of contrasts.
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Jul 5, 2021 17:09
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Arcsquad12 posted:What other mecha series has Kunio Okawara worked out outside of Gundam and Votoms? The dude is probably my favourite mecha designer since I love his big chunky tanks on legs aesthetic. Prior to Gundam, he did Godam, Daitarn, Daikengo, and a bunch of enemy robot designs for some Tatsunoko shows. Afterwards, besides the shows Gaius Marius listed, he did Vifan, Wataru, Granzort, and most of the Brave series robots. He's prolific.
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Jul 5, 2021 18:49
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Vifam is a great show, truly underrated 80s mecha series. The robots aren't particularly memorable or unique to me though, although that's somewhat the point. Dougram is good but long, it's basically the LoGH of mecha with its dry political scenarios but with incredibly janky 1980 animation but it pays off big time with one of my favorite endings in anime. If you like big chunky tank mecha you'll be happy to know that one of the robots here is literally a tank with legs:   And the others all have helicopter cockpits for heads.
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Jul 5, 2021 20:11
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Outta curiosity about Dourgam Does it go into the deep end like VOTOMS did? I really like all the cult and Overman stuff so it ain't a problem if it does, but I'm curious if he went back to the well with VOTOMS. Really gotta give it a watch soon, something about 70 EP's just feels so much longer than fifty though
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Jul 5, 2021 23:29
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No, Dougram is pretty believable and realistic all things considered and took a lot of inspiration from 50s and 60s anticolonial wars
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Jul 5, 2021 23:44
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All this 80s mecha talk is reminding me that I've started but haven't finished L-Gaim, Orguss, Layzner, and Dunbine for various reasons. I do want to finish Layzner first if just for the ridiculously good OP (though tbf, all of them have great ones)
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Jul 6, 2021 05:56
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Lily Catts posted:All this 80s mecha talk is reminding me that I've started but haven't finished L-Gaim, Orguss, Layzner, and Dunbine for various reasons. I do want to finish Layzner first if just for the ridiculously good OP (though tbf, all of them have great ones) Just as a warning, Layzner's got a pretty awkward ending if you watch the series. It's only the third OVA that actually tries to bring things to a full conclusion, and even then there's some pretty out-of-nowhere feeling plot twists. (Also it sucks, despite the OP, but different people like different things, so that's a less universal warning. The OP being very, very good might be enough to see you through.)
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Jul 6, 2021 06:37
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Lily Catts posted:All this 80s mecha talk is reminding me that I've started but haven't finished L-Gaim, Orguss, Layzner, and Dunbine for various reasons. I do want to finish Layzner first if just for the ridiculously good OP (though tbf, all of them have great ones) Orguss doesn't shy away from its Macross-derivative status, except more science fantasy-oriented due to the dimensional thingy. I did find the ending memorable, at least (as in both the ED and, you know, the actual conclusion of the story). Btw...Orguss O2, despite having a silly name and being almost unrelated in practice, was a pretty cool OVA and works even if you didn't see the original (and arguably it's better if you don't, 'cause they retcon stuff). Just putting that out there.
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Jul 6, 2021 07:57
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Speaking of Dougram, https://www.hlj.com/combat-armor-dougram-40th-anniversary-collector-s-box-dys50008
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Jul 6, 2021 08:32
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wielder posted:Orguss doesn't shy away from its Macross-derivative status, except more science fantasy-oriented due to the dimensional thingy. I did find the ending memorable, at least (as in both the ED and, you know, the actual conclusion of the story). I second the recommendation for Orguss 2. Same director as "War in the Pocket", for whatever that's worth. Mech fights are a bit weak most of the time, but the character beats are good. A problem with Orguss 1 is that the main character is an rear end in a top hat. A positive trait for Orguss 2 is that one of the supporting characters is so much of an rear end in a top hat that he wraps around to being weirdly likable again.
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Jul 6, 2021 09:05
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All I know about Orguss 2 is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlLFNM_1o-8
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Jul 6, 2021 17:57
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MonsieurChoc posted:All I know about Orguss 2 is this: I know it more for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iMV9XA6t_8
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Jul 6, 2021 23:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:All I know about Orguss 2 is this: Knew what this one was without even clicking on it. Believe it or not, that guy's maybe the best character in the anime. He's also less of a scumbag than the protagonist of the original Orguss, which is impressive considering we're talking a dude with a list of ex-wives longer than his arm. (Manning, despite his awkward choice of threat, has a scene elsewhere in the OVA where he says outright that he isn't interested in teenagers, and that anyone who is qualifies as a creep even by his standards. Meanwhile, Kei in the original Orguss is dating a high schooler.)
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Jul 7, 2021 00:48
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chiasaur11 posted:Knew what this one was without even clicking on it. What does he say in the original Japanese, out of curiosity?
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Jul 7, 2021 00:59
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chiasaur11 posted:Knew what this one was without even clicking on it. Oh yeah, Manning comes across like a terrible person at a glance but eventually he turns out to be more of a rascal than a thug. Pretty amusing. Speaking of Orguss 02, it's falso unny how they have a different theme song for the OP when you switch audio tracks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENR6vUqeZpo vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNuyy65LjI4
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Jul 7, 2021 01:09
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I hope we delineate between worst line read and worst line period. Because bad dubs are hilarious but I don't think anything will beat "People die when they are killed!" for sheer idiotic anime dialogue.
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Jul 7, 2021 02:46
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Arcsquad12 posted:I hope we delineate between worst line read and worst line period. Because bad dubs are hilarious but I don't think anything will beat "People die when they are killed!" for sheer idiotic anime dialogue. In the context of "an idiot grappling with the fact that he's just given away the artifact that's been making him immortal enough to survive the previous couple of fights and therefore is facing the next one with his life on the line" it makes sense, but it's still pretty dopey.
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Jul 7, 2021 02:51
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Arcsquad12 posted:I hope we delineate between worst line read and worst line period. Because bad dubs are hilarious but I don't think anything will beat "People die when they are killed!" for sheer idiotic anime dialogue. That one's a bad translation. It's 'people are supposed to die when they're killed', because he hadn't despite the fact that he had, and he's a bit puzzled about why.
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Jul 7, 2021 03:02
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Darth Walrus posted:That one's a bad translation. It's 'people are supposed to die when they're killed', because he hadn't despite the fact that he had, and he's a bit puzzled about why. I still find it hilarious and now it's entrenched in my mind, like it's a shocking stoner epiphany.
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Jul 7, 2021 03:11
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Even in that TL it's immediately followed up with "that's the way it should be", or something to that affect.
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Jul 7, 2021 03:57
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Did Delta ever give like, a sufficiently good reason as to why we should like the Windies and see their assholishness as good other than "Hey, It's like Gundam, so that means the vaguely fascist guys are actually HONORABLE"?
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Jul 7, 2021 09:28
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Fivemarks posted:Did Delta ever give like, a sufficiently good reason as to why we should like the Windies and see their assholishness as good other than "Hey, It's like Gundam, so that means the vaguely fascist guys are actually HONORABLE"? The UN dropped a fold bomb on their planet when they first started rumbling about independence. It destroyed part of the planet, hosed up the ecosystem something fierce and killed a lot of them both directly and indirectly. Kanos fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Jul 7, 2021 |
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Jul 7, 2021 11:49
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Kanos posted:The UN dropped a fold bomb on their planet when they first started rumbling about independence. It destroyed part of the planet, hosed up the ecosystem something fierce and killed a lot of them both directly and indirectly. That seems like a massive overreaction that a bad writer put in to hamfistedly go "UN ALSO BAD", just like the Federation plan to deliberately get one of their mobile suits blown up in 08th MS Team since they couldn't legally use nukes. Also, getting your planet bombed doesn't justify any of the other poo poo the Windies do.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:04
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Fivemarks posted:That seems like a massive overreaction that a bad writer put in to hamfistedly go "UN ALSO BAD", just like the Federation plan to deliberately get one of their mobile suits blown up in 08th MS Team since they couldn't legally use nukes. Delta in general goes pretty hard in on the idea that the NUNS are extremely shady jerks doing extremely shady things. Mikumo is a black ops protoculture cloning experiment, they pre-emptively put down the Windie rebellion by dropping a fold bomb on their planet before the Windies did anything belligerent(and the fold bomb itself is supposed to be Mega Turbo Illegal by NUNS's own rules), and they seem content to let the entire sector of space in Delta go to hell until the Windies whip out the protoculture weapon and then they're suddenly interested. Whether or not you think "UN ALSO BAD" is a bad direction for Macross to go(I do, incidentally), Delta is pretty consistent about it and it doesn't really come out of nowhere. I'd say "the space government first-strike dropped an illegal warcrime superweapon on our planet that killed an enormous amount of our people and permanently hosed up our climate/ecosystem in an apparently unfixable manner because we dared to consider breaking off from them" is probably reasonable grounds for armed rebellion, even if they're jerks about it. Them grasping for some means to actually fight that war and win it by toying around with protoculture stuff is mostly a function of "Windermere is one planet with a small population and the government they're fighting against is a pan-galactic concern".
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Jul 7, 2021 17:19
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Personally, I don't think that it's bad that Macross Delta took a franchise with this long history of "we fight, but also we can talk, and that means we can coexist... by exposing the outsiders to our culture" and spun a narrative about imperialism from it, but if nothing else the "only PMCs can be trusted" thing Frontier and Delta have going on is definitely kinda weird. Windermere are presented as sympathetic because they're victims, but condemnable because the only way forward they can see is to impose themselves on outsiders in the same way. It contrasts with Chaos living amidst the Ragnans and taking part in local traditions. The idea that music, even without a magic Protoculture mind control device, can be seen as a weapon because of its historical impact in the setting is something that gets discussed and that Walkure all struggle against. It all fits together pretty well. The amount of time spent on most of the Windermerean cast not really doing anything is absolutely a big weakness of the show - it's one of the many things that makes the movie better than the TV show - but when there are things happening with them, I feel like it works as a part of the whole.
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Jul 7, 2021 19:04
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Like, a MAJOR problem I have with both Gundam and Macross and anime in general's position of 'YOU CAN'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT" is that it always goes to "So you have to trust this PMC or Private Unaccountable Military Force".
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Jul 7, 2021 20:39
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Does gundam usually have PMCs portrayed favorably? I'm trying to think of any and i think typically in gundam it's more of a "lesser of 2 evils" thing. Ibo is the only one that comes to mind where the protagonist organization is pretty much entirely presented sympathetically
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Jul 7, 2021 20:53
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ninjewtsu posted:Does gundam usually have PMCs portrayed favorably? I'm trying to think of any and i think typically in gundam it's more of a "lesser of 2 evils" thing. Ibo is the only one that comes to mind where the protagonist organization is pretty much entirely presented sympathetically Seed Astray too.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:06
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That's pretty much SEED but especially SEED destiny that has that sort of thing. SEED Destiny more or less has Kira's whole side funded by Lacus and they're the only "good" side.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:11
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ninjewtsu posted:Does gundam usually have PMCs portrayed favorably? I'm trying to think of any and i think typically in gundam it's more of a "lesser of 2 evils" thing. Ibo is the only one that comes to mind where the protagonist organization is pretty much entirely presented sympathetically I wouldn't even file Tekkadan under that heading. They're the protagonists and all, but the way things go doesn't come off as a ringing endorsement of all their plans and actions. I mean, they wind up working as henchmen for the Char clone, and the second season has them commit multiple cold blooded mafia execution style murders, even if the people they kill have it coming. Looking at other Gundam PMCs, Themis is kind of protagonist-y in at least some parts of the Return of Johnny Ridden, but they spend their initial appearance working for an antagonist, and they're secretly a Chimera Corps descendant organization whose primary goal is to find Johnny Ridden since he can unlock a bioweapon capable of wiping out life on Earth. (And at least one of their employers wants to use it.) Serpent Tail is your standard "Good guys who sometimes work for bad guys for a bit when the money is right", and PMC Trust... employs Ali Al Sanchez. Definitely not protagonists, those guys.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:12
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Would you count AEUG as a PMC given that half their members are former Zekes?
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Jul 7, 2021 21:17
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they're private and unaccountable, largely. i think the unaccountable part is kind of key to the idea
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Jul 7, 2021 21:18
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