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Okay but if the (WORLD GOVERNMENT!) is evil, who do you trust to account the PMCs?
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Jul 7, 2021 21:20
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Arcsquad12 posted:Would you count AEUG as a PMC given that half their members are former Zekes? No, since (despite being sponsored and to some extent directed by Anaheim) they aren't acting primarily as a money earner. They're more a general purpose paramilitary force acting as the armed wing of Contolist factions in the Federation government.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:36
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Half their force isn't Zeke's. Not even Roberto and apolly are even known to be former zeon in the show itself. The show straight up calls it a federation civil war
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Jul 7, 2021 22:08
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PMCs are by definition mercenaries. AEUG would be a revolutionary army (or from the Titans' perspective a terrorist organization) I don't think Kawamori is a huge fan of PMCs or anything. It's a narrative tool to allow protagonists a degree of freedom the same way almost every Gundam show puts the main character's ship in a situation where most military rules don't apply (until they do) Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jul 7, 2021 |
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Jul 7, 2021 22:33
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The bad guys from twilight axis were a PMC. Not that you'd know from watching the show
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Jul 7, 2021 22:34
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Gaius Marius posted:Half their force isn't Zeke's. Not even Roberto and apolly are even known to be former zeon in the show itself. The show straight up calls it a federation civil war I thought there were at least a few more than just Quattro. I guess I'm falling into the trap of assuming every spacenoid is a Zeon.
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Jul 7, 2021 22:58
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Arcsquad12 posted:I thought there were at least a few more than just Quattro. I guess I'm falling into the trap of assuming every spacenoid is a Zeon. There is also Henken, Roberto, Apolly and a few characters from side stories, but its mostly ex-Federation people and I'm not sure how widely known it was that AEUG included former Zeon military other than (eventually) Char.
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Jul 7, 2021 23:22
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WrightOfWay posted:There is also Henken, Roberto, Apolly and a few characters from side stories, but its mostly ex-Federation people and I'm not sure how widely known it was that AEUG included former Zeon military other than (eventually) Char. Fun fact? Karaba had members of Gihren's Royal Guard join up, including a relative of the Zabis. (Probably the closest living heir, other than Mineva.) Like most surviving members of the AEUG and Karaba, they went on to join the regular Federation forces.
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Jul 7, 2021 23:33
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pretty sure most proper zeon soldiers joined haman's neo zeon instead of the aeug
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Jul 7, 2021 23:34
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ninjewtsu posted:pretty sure most proper zeon soldiers joined haman's neo zeon instead of the aeug I mean, can you blame them? It's Haman. 
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Jul 7, 2021 23:40
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ninjewtsu posted:pretty sure most proper zeon soldiers joined haman's neo zeon instead of the aeug Haman's Axis Zeon was actually a pretty small minority of Zeon's forces, with very few real veterans (as shown in their introduction in Zeta, where Char notes how green the pilots are). According to Entertainment Bible 39 (which tends to go for higher numbers) at the conclusion of the war, the Principality of Zeon had 3 million remaining active duty personnel, with 46 surviving battleships or cruisers and 2,800 Mobile Suits active or in production. (This, obviously, doesn't include splinter remnant groups) Axis Zeon, meanwhile, had only 30,000 citizens at the time of launch, including non-combatants like Mineva. Even if we assumed every single one of them was a veteran (obviously untrue), the Republic had them outnumbered in veteran Zeon soldiers 100:1. In other words, most "proper" Zeon soldiers didn't join either, remaining in the Republic's defense forces.
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Jul 7, 2021 23:58
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chiasaur11 posted:Fun fact? Well them and however many Purus are still running around in the setting
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Jul 8, 2021 00:08
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Siegkrow posted:Okay but if the (WORLD GOVERNMENT!) is evil, who do you trust to account the PMCs? Other PMCs, of course.
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Jul 8, 2021 00:46
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Siegkrow posted:Okay but if the (WORLD GOVERNMENT!) is evil, who do you trust to account the PMCs? that's easy. idols!
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Jul 8, 2021 00:48
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Hard to say which is most exploitative and evil between the Idol industry and PMCs.
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Jul 8, 2021 01:59
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MonsieurChoc posted:Hard to say which is most exploitative and evil between the Idol industry and PMCs. Macross: why not both?
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Jul 8, 2021 02:02
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I think its very fair to distrust Macross' later entries on the basis of their focus on the Idol Industry as this good great thing and their ideal of PMCs as this great thing that's more trustworthy than the government.
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Jul 8, 2021 02:52
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I know it's Kojima and he's as subtle as a sledgehammer and about as elegant but I do think that the Metal Gear games have one of the best depictions of PMCs because they go to great lengths to also emphasize why PMCs are a terrible idea because of the damage they do to global stability and the trauma they inflict on the people who partake in the business. MGS4 is a dumb game but the stuff about how the PMCs work is pretty chilling stuff and it makes it hard for me to root for shows or films where vigilante armed forces are presented as unambiguous good guys. It falls into the Military Sci Fi pitfall of "hard men making hard choices while those pussy rear end politicians waste everyone's time."
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Jul 8, 2021 02:58
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Fivemarks posted:I think its very fair to distrust Macross' later entries on the basis of their focus on the Idol Industry as this good great thing and their ideal of PMCs as this great thing that's more trustworthy than the government. The "idol industry" as depicted in the Macross franchise has basically no resemblance to the actual thing that I don't think it's even fair to describe it as being the idol industry. They're just, like, general musicians with one manager. Not every singer in Japan is an idol.
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Jul 8, 2021 04:12
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Blockhouse posted:The "idol industry" as depicted in the Macross franchise has basically no resemblance to the actual thing that I don't think it's even fair to describe it as being the idol industry. They're just, like, general musicians with one manager. It's still an Idealized version of what it is.
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Jul 8, 2021 05:09
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This discussion about Macross sequels and PMCs made me remember something I’d been thinking about for a few years… The original Macross featured Roy as an American stereotype and Hikaru as the Japanese main character. Hikaru was a pacifist and Roy was a military hero, but over the course of the show Hikaru gets sucked into being a soldier, and after Roy dies, Hikaru takes over as Roy’s replacement IRL Japan at the time was not allowed an autonomous military and was living with an American military presence for decades. I always wondered if the story of Roy and Hikaru was the yearnings of Japanese writers to see Japan develop a strong military of its own and come out of the shadow of the United States, and Hikaru’s rise was there to tickle the same unconscious dream of young boys across the whole country to see Japan with a strong military image again
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Jul 8, 2021 05:19
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And the Mamoru Oshii comes along a few years later with Patlabor 2 to point out that Japan absolutely is militarized and armed to the teeth with soldier boys and the longer the country lives in the lie of peace the worse the fallout will be when the facade finally drops.
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Jul 8, 2021 05:26
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Fivemarks posted:It's still an Idealized version of what it is. yes Macross is inherently an idealistic franchise
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Jul 8, 2021 05:28
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Macross 2 is good because it portrays every side poorly, with only a handful of people not being short-sighted morons or evil.
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Jul 8, 2021 05:34
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Macross 2 is good because it portrays every side poorly, with only a handful of people not being short-sighted morons or evil. This implies any side in Macross II is developed enough to be portrayed as anything sensical
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Jul 8, 2021 05:38
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the best part of macross II is the valkyrie II because it kicks rear end
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Jul 8, 2021 05:44
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muike posted:the best part of macross II is the valkyrie II because it kicks rear end The best part of Macross II is that it sucked so much they made Macross Plus to try to save the series's reputation. And Macross Plus kicks rear end.
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Jul 8, 2021 05:53
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that's true but also not fair because the valkyrie II is super cool edit: Is that true? is that how that went down? drat
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Jul 8, 2021 05:55
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I still hope that one day we'll be able to see episode 4 of Macross Plus with the Bryan Cranston dub and the original soundscape. Apparently a rights issue kept the original English dub from using the sound mix so they had to redo it from scratch which is why episode 4 reuses music from previous episodes rather than the stuff specifically made for the episode. Then apparently they made a new dub for episode 4 in like 2014 or something that featured David Hayter as Isamu on a japanese Blu Ray release as a foreign language track.
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Jul 8, 2021 06:11
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is there anything cooler than dudes pulling high g maneuvers in mechs while electronic pop music with driving basslines play? I say no and that's why macross plus and zone of the enders 2 have the same energy
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Jul 8, 2021 06:17
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muike posted:that's true but also not fair because the valkyrie II is super cool It's what I've read, at least. Kawamori was supposedly so disappointed with Macross II that he got another Macross going just so that II wouldn't be the last word on the series. Same sort of thing as Toriyama making Battle of the Gods after Dragon Ball Evolution.
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Jul 8, 2021 06:32
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Totally makes sense to me cuz Macross Plus really seems to have a huge lasting impact on anime fans, at least in the sense of things that are like "formative" to the genre. If that was there intention I gotta say they knocked it out of the park. e: plus im pretty sure everyone knows the yf-19 is the coolest variable fighter of all time
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Jul 8, 2021 06:35
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Blockhouse posted:This implies any side in Macross II is developed enough to be portrayed as anything sensical UN Spacy lazy, no clue what to do once airdropping Minmei music into alien sound systems stops working. Marduk empire are Warhammer 40k humanity, purge all heretics. My love for Macross II is mostly nostalgic, but I do love the art and designs. It’s like the epitome of a 7/10 anime.
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Jul 8, 2021 07:21
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Arcsquad12 posted:And the Mamoru Oshii comes along a few years later with Patlabor 2 to point out that Japan absolutely is militarized and armed to the teeth with soldier boys and the longer the country lives in the lie of peace the worse the fallout will be when the facade finally drops. I was too young and dumb to get this when I first saw it so I think a Patlabor rewatch is in order
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Jul 8, 2021 08:50
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PringleCreamEgg posted:UN Spacy lazy, no clue what to do once airdropping Minmei music into alien sound systems stops working. 7/10 is an undue compliment. 7/10 is something like Zone of the Enders: 2167 Idolo. I couldn't give Macross II anything above a 5 in good conscience. The designs are excellent, yes, and the visuals aren't bad. OVA budget and Haruhiko Mikimoto on the same project means you get something that looks nice. I'll go a little further, and say the fights, on review, are pretty solid. On that front, at least, II kicks the absolute crap out of Delta. But the music is generic (shocking for Macross), the characters are terrible, the plot is bad, and the main love triangle doesn't work. We get an episode setting up Hibiki and Ishtar, then at the end Hibiki and Sylvie are an item out of nowhere. And even the fights aren't pure asset. The individual shots look good, but the overall flow of combat is poorly done, with reactions that undermine what's on screen. (Sylvie's wingmates gossiping in the middle of combat wouldn't be so bad if they didn't just have their carrier blown up. With it, though, it's one of the most glaring failures of tone I've seen.) So, yeah. I can't argue against nostalgia, but if you go into it fresh, it's pretty bad.
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Jul 8, 2021 08:52
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The best thing about Macross II is the opening. Much like Blue Gender
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Jul 8, 2021 17:11
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that's true of a lot of shows
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Jul 8, 2021 17:14
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:that's true of a lot of shows Was definitely true of Highschool of the Dead.
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Jul 8, 2021 23:34
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I'm trying to get my Fiancee to watch more giant robots- she really loving loved GaoGaiGar and Argento Soma and Giant Gorg, and is a huge Transformers and Tezuka fan.
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Jul 9, 2021 02:53
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Fivemarks posted:I'm trying to get my Fiancee to watch more giant robots- she really loving loved GaoGaiGar and Argento Soma and Giant Gorg, and is a huge Transformers and Tezuka fan. Giant Robo: The Day The Earth Stood Still seems like the obvious next choice. Maybe Turn A Gundam too.
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Jul 9, 2021 03:00
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