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nocturne kicking you in the shins for even trying to get a demon to help you is correct. if anything 5 should also put in the bizarre infinite conversation loops from 1 on top of nocturnes systems. also a lot of the negotiation skills are helpful but everyone ditches them and then complains, charisma and stuff like mischief help a lot, brainwash is practically broken.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:31
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Gaius Marius posted:Matador is not hard. Ame no uzumi, nozuchi, and nekomata counter him easily. I beat him at a level too low to fuse Ame but I forst fought him at a level too low to even recruit nozuchi
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Jul 8, 2021 18:33
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Nocturne is the easiest mainline SMT game, change my mind.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:39
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MegaZeroX posted:Nocturne is the easiest mainline SMT game, change my mind. It certainly seemed easier than what I played of 4
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Jul 8, 2021 18:39
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MegaZeroX posted:Nocturne is the easiest mainline SMT game, change my mind. II and I
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Jul 8, 2021 18:40
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smt 1 is very easy
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Jul 8, 2021 18:40
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4 is easier than Nocturne, but 4A is more difficult.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:45
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Stux posted:nocturne kicking you in the shins for even trying to get a demon to help you is correct. if anything 5 should also put in the bizarre infinite conversation loops from 1 on top of nocturnes systems. Should I keep "Wine Party"
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Jul 8, 2021 18:47
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I and II are harder without guides just because you often don't know where to go. I've died more times in a single sidequest in 4 then all of Nocturne.
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Jul 8, 2021 18:49
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the only difficult thing in 1 is talking to every npc to hit triggers, nothing about the combat or whahtever is particularly hard. w 3 and 4 its just which you played first. i played 4 after playing nocturne dds raidou etc and i didnt die in any of the "difficult" early game bosses or whatever
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Jul 8, 2021 19:05
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Strange Journey had the 'Relax Spray' subapp which just let you ignore one fuckup per negotiation. And I think for SMT IV you got best results of you only gave them, like, two things and refused the rest. Just loving stonewall them.
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Jul 8, 2021 19:16
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MegaZeroX posted:I and II are harder without guides just because you often don't know where to go. II at least is actually pretty well signposted, people have just gotten so used to hand holding the Idea of actually exploring and talking to NPC's in the bar is considered verboten. The start at the Center is pretty linear, getting Masakado's body together takes a minute to find the Quest Giver but the shrines are easy enough to find. And even the more obscure pillars you'll easily get like the Item shop one, or someone will point you to it. One of the Drunks in the Chirei bar will tell you about the Dance contest I believe
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Jul 8, 2021 19:40
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Should I keep "Wine Party" I had it for awhile and it did seem to help out (even passed it to Loki when I fused him from Dionysius) eventually I got rid of it but it did seem to help out on negotiations. Ultimately it will depend on what’s more important for your demon, a supplemental chance for negations or an extra move or skill
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Jul 8, 2021 19:49
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Spiffster posted:I had it for awhile and it did seem to help out (even passed it to Loki when I fused him from Dionysius) eventually I got rid of it but it did seem to help out on negotiations. Hmm now I have gotten into a bit of Fusion Planning, I am probably going to take my Dionysus and go through Yatagarasu to get to Sati... this is my "Pixie Lineage" and has been my fire mage/healer so that Recarm/Maragidyne seems like good poo poo Edit: oh Dionysus gets Maragidyne naturally at 48 hmm, maybe there's a better path
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Jul 8, 2021 20:33
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I don't think I saw it in Nocturne but in SMT4 I remember you'd occasionally talk to Beast or the other non-vocal races and it would ask ????!??!?!?! and you could answer ????!?!? !!!!!?!?! ???!?!?! and sometimes it would drain your health or take a life stone or join you just like other negotiations. It was funny.
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Jul 8, 2021 21:19
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IIRC Strange Journey was like that with a couple of races (Foul being the one I remember best) before you got the sub-app that translated, except it would just show random "corrupted" characters.
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Jul 8, 2021 22:15
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I mean thats basically what happens in Nocturne when you talk to one of the un-talkable races on a full moon
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Jul 8, 2021 22:40
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I mean thats basically what happens in Nocturne when you talk to one of the un-talkable races on a full moon I figured as much, I just didn't talk to them much in Nocturne. It feels (and it has been a long time since I played IV) like demons initiated conversations themselves more in 4 so you got more things like that.
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Jul 8, 2021 22:49
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Terper posted:SMT4's system is good once you realize that you can just refuse, refuse, end conversation, and a lot of the time they just join you anyway. I remember choosing answers at random because I think there's some system in place that makes demons more agreeable to you the more you talk to them that carries over between battles.
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Jul 8, 2021 23:23
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What drives the negotiations in SMT4 is still a mystery to me. I just randomly choose and keep talking to them until they either run away or rob me and run away. Less often I get bored and kill them. Okay, so I wasn't as far along in SMT4 as I thought. There was no main quest, but checking online in frustration told me I needed to do the challenges and that I had totally missed the name drop on Massive Avokado during the transition from the white place. I'm a little pissed about the name thing still since I checked through all of my items and the compendium to see if it had a second mention anywhere at all  Also after you guys said STR was a poo poo stat, I looked around to see how wide that view was and have since mostly piled everything into DEX and Luck. If hitting things in the face is dumb, I'm gonna shoot them in the face for crits instead. As a bonus the annoyance of mob clearing while running around is now spamming mahamaon since getting the mana regen apps 
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Jul 9, 2021 01:44
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SMT negotiation being obtuse and unfair is good, and you have to agree if you want me to join your party, now give me a life stone.
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Jul 9, 2021 02:07
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That's fine, but stop asking for 50,002 macca and a bead chain. I'm never going to give you them.
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Jul 9, 2021 02:11
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Rockstar Massacre posted:SMT negotiation being obtuse and unfair is good, and you have to agree if you want me to join your party, now give me a life stone.
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Jul 9, 2021 02:14
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negotiations in smt4 are easy
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Jul 9, 2021 02:29
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Trash Ops posted:negotiations in smt4 are easy They almost made it too easy both with the negotiations themselves and with all the bonuses you can get. Not complaining though I love having a ton of bros
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Jul 9, 2021 02:30
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SMT4 and SMT4A are both insanely easy. Nocturne isn't exactly the hardest game on the market but you get so hilariously OP so hilariously quickly in both those games especially because the games reward you so heavily for alpha striking the hell out of enemies. Nocturne has the easiest uberbosses of the lot if you count the DLC ones from 4/A admittedly.
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Jul 9, 2021 03:54
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In SMT4 and 4A demons give you enough opportunities to recruit them without spending anything that you're a sucker if you give them a single macca In Nocturne you're a paypig and the demons are into findom, and like any good dom sometimes they just leave you hanging
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Jul 9, 2021 04:01
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Lucifer isn't even really hard he's just a level check e: and of course a Pierce check
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Jul 9, 2021 04:02
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TBH I think it says a lot about Stux that they insist that the angel designs in SMTIV look like evil, disgusting monsters but that the standard designs look like flawless perfection
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Jul 9, 2021 04:09
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John Lee posted:TBH I think it says a lot about Stux that they insist that the angel designs in SMTIV look like evil, disgusting monsters but that the standard designs look like flawless perfection ...The standard designs for the archangels are the most boring, generic fantasy stuff ever. Seriously, they are the generic_winged_human.jpg stuff that you see in some fantasy settings. The entire design lineage for the lesser angels in the Divine race, hell even the other Heralds are more creative.
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Jul 9, 2021 05:17
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Pharohman777 posted:...The standard designs for the archangels are the most boring, generic fantasy stuff ever. Seriously, they are the generic_winged_human.jpg stuff that you see in some fantasy settings. Devil Summoner really gave is a lot of good angel redesigns. And even if you wanna keep the Mostly Human looking part of it you can easily take it a step farther into being something interesting like Kazfiel's design.
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Jul 9, 2021 05:27
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Another 20 minutes lost because of random Mudo and I forgot to re-equip the null dark magatama lol, when can I learn null dark as a skill
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Jul 9, 2021 07:22
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In Apocalypse (and pretty much all other SMTs) I've no problem with the "give demon's things" part of negotiations. Those are fine and I've tons of macca and items to spare for them. It's just the questions at the start feel completely random on the outcome. I don't want negotiation's randomness to be gone because it would lose a ton of flavour, but I would like something close to the endgame that makes it almost assured they'll join to just save time.
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Jul 9, 2021 07:38
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Another 20 minutes lost because of random Mudo and I forgot to re-equip the null dark magatama lol, when can I learn null dark as a skill You get it from a magatama from black frost quite a minute into the game
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Jul 9, 2021 07:47
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Gaius Marius posted:You get it from a magatama from black frost quite a minute into the game Hmm I guess it is thematically appropriate that Null Light would be much easier to learn
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Jul 9, 2021 08:09
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Golden Goat posted:In Apocalypse (and pretty much all other SMTs) I've no problem with the "give demon's things" part of negotiations. Those are fine and I've tons of macca and items to spare for them. It's just the questions at the start feel completely random on the outcome. Some of the 'demon approaches you/demon is leaving' stuff seems random or personality dependent. The multi-part questions they ask afterwards seem more deterministic. I've found some answers to multipart questions that seem to guarantee a negotiation or a demon joining instantly. There doesn't seem to be a guide made, so this is just stuff I've noticed. I've had demons like kudlak ask me 'who am I', and if you respond 'I don't know' he gets frustrated and enters his name into your phone, joining you instantly. When old geezer demons ask that question, answering with their name takes you straight to negotiation. When punk demons ask if you're their mama, answer 'no', then tell them you are a 'perfect stranger', and they join instantly. When an old geezer demon asks about how your tech works, pick the most honest answers and he'll join you out of interest. When a nobleman personality demon asks for you to entertain him, if you choose 'dance', a dexterity check is made that you can win to recruit him instantly. When a punk demon asks to punch you, let him, then respond eagerly to being punched again and when he asks if it your fetish say yes and he joins instantly.
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Jul 9, 2021 08:11
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Pharohman777 posted:When a punk demon asks to punch you, let him, then respond eagerly to being punched again and when he asks if it your fetish say yes and he joins instantly. I have absolutely done this one recently and had the demon go "You freak you're weirding me out" and just leave. E: To be fair they were insta recruits if you find them again but I still think even the guaranteed stuff has some RNG in it. Golden Goat fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Jul 9, 2021 |
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Jul 9, 2021 08:17
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Hmm do I need to get all three of my stats up to progress in the third kalpa...?
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Jul 9, 2021 08:55
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You only need one to make it through.
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Jul 9, 2021 09:57
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is there a good way to play smt 1&2? guessing it’s just roms & translations, but is there a best option?
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Jul 9, 2021 10:44
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