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You loving dumbass morons. I'm the only true anarchist. Utter imbeciles. Rest of you are larping.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:25
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Actually it's me. By denying that I'm an anarchist I am actually the most anarchist. (You could probably make an argument that post-Munster Anabaptists were anarchists in at least the "the State will do what it will but we'll have no part of it" sense, but I'm not nearly enough of a religious historian to do that argument justice.)
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Jul 8, 2021 15:58
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As we all know anarchists are GOOD tm, and everyone else is bad that's why Marxists are just as bad as Fascists and want a Red Brown Strausserism
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Jul 8, 2021 16:15
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smh if you call yourself an anarchist and vilify babbit for her attempt to literally destroy the state rest in power, ashley,,,
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Jul 8, 2021 16:45
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:smh if you call yourself an anarchist and vilify babbit for her attempt to literally destroy the state
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Jul 8, 2021 16:55
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Am I a bad...whatever it is I am for hating the phrase "rest in power"? (I already know I am a bad leftist for hating referring to people as "workers".)
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Jul 8, 2021 16:58
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KomradeX posted:As we all know anarchists are GOOD tm, and everyone else is bad that's why Marxists are just as bad as Fascists and want a Red Brown Strausserism What is an anarchist anyway? No one knows
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Jul 8, 2021 18:18
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docbeard posted:Am I a bad...whatever it is I am for hating the phrase "rest in power"? Objectively, anarchists are the epitome snob, niche consumer. Bug men of the over digested poo poo excreted by our techno capital cultural complex. Do these words mean anything or did I spit out AI generated text? find out!
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Jul 8, 2021 18:28
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I can't believe I've read ML's arguing that antifa is bad. How unfortunate for you that they don't take orders from you and are happy when bad things happen to their enemies. God forbid leftists actually prefer fighting fascism instead of getting talked down to by a bunch of would-be middle managers with weird nationalist aesthetics. Have you ever considered that your faith in historical progress and the nation-state makes you the actual liberals? Some dipshit earlier was arguing that national borders meant something beyond an agreement between modern nation-states; very funny. The Leninist territorial pissing on CSPAM is loving embarrassing. I swear some of you fuckers are agent provocateurs on a government payroll, but I can't prove it. POLITBURO OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF THE USSR THE KREMLIN MOSCOW SHAKE IN YOUR SHOES BUREAUCRATS STOP THE INTERNATIONAL POWER OF THE WORKERS COUNCILS WILL SOON WIPE YOU OUT STOP HUMANITY WON’T BE HAPPY TILL THE LAST BUREAUCRAT IS HUNG WITH THE GUTS OF THE LAST CAPITALIST STOP LONG LIVE THE STRUGGLE OF THE KRONSTADT SAILORS AND OF THE MAKHNOVSHCHINA AGAINST TROTSKY AND LENIN STOP LONG LIVE THE 1956 COUNCILIST INSURRECTION OF BUDAPEST STOP DOWN WITH THE STATE STOP LONG LIVE REVOLUTIONARY MARXISM STOP OCCUPATION COMMITTEE OF THE PEOPLE’S FREE SORBONNE POLITBURO OF THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY GATE OF CELESTIAL PEACE PEKING SHAKE IN YOUR SHOES BUREAUCRATS STOP THE INTERNATIONAL POWER OF THE WORKERS COUNCILS WILL SOON WIPE YOU OUT STOP HUMANITY WON’T BE HAPPY TILL THE LAST BUREAUCRAT IS HUNG WITH THE GUTS OF THE LAST CAPITALIST STOP LONG LIVE FACTORY OCCUPATIONS STOP LONG LIVE THE GREAT CHINESE PROLETARIAN REVOLUTION OF 1927 BETRAYED BY THE STALINIST BUREAUCRATS STOP LONG LIVE THE PROLETARIANS OF CANTON AND ELSEWHERE WHO HAVE TAKEN UP ARMS AGAINST THE SO-CALLED PEOPLE’S ARMY STOP LONG LIVE THE CHINESE WORKERS AND STUDENTS WHO HAVE ATTACKED THE SO-CALLED CULTURAL REVOLUTION AND THE MAOIST BUREAUCRATIC ORDER STOP LONG LIVE REVOLUTIONARY MARXISM STOP DOWN WITH THE STATE STOP OCCUPATION COMMITTEE OF THE PEOPLE’S FREE SORBONNE
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Jul 9, 2021 21:08
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you should go back to that marxists.org link i posted written by karl radek about the kronstadt uprising and read the first part
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Jul 9, 2021 21:14
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CHIMlord posted:I can't believe I've read ML's arguing that antifa is bad. How unfortunate for you that they don't take orders from you and are happy when bad things happen to their enemies. God forbid leftists actually prefer fighting fascism instead of getting talked down to by a bunch of would-be middle managers with weird nationalist aesthetics. Literal mental illness
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Jul 9, 2021 21:23
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antifa are good, but if they're anarchists their politics are bad
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Jul 9, 2021 21:27
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CHIMlord posted:I can't believe I've read ML's arguing that antifa is bad. How unfortunate for you that they don't take orders from you and are happy when bad things happen to their enemies. God forbid leftists actually prefer fighting fascism instead of getting talked down to by a bunch of would-be middle managers with weird nationalist aesthetics. this is simultaneously the worst and most entertaining thread in the forum
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Jul 9, 2021 21:32
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Top City Homo posted:Literal mental illness good description of cspam imo
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Jul 9, 2021 21:42
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CHIMlord posted:The Leninist territorial pissing on CSPAM is loving embarrassing. I swear some of you fuckers are agent provocateurs on a government payroll, but I can't prove it. most of us are paid by the CIA
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Jul 9, 2021 21:43
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Ferrinus is a true to heart liberal though so I don't know about them.
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Jul 9, 2021 21:43
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AnimeIsTrash posted:most of us are paid by the CIA Disgusting. I'm FBI through and through
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Jul 9, 2021 21:56
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christmas boots posted:Disgusting. I'm FBI through and through the fbi and cia are mortal enemies this explains antifa vs proudboys
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Jul 9, 2021 21:58
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Top City Homo posted:the fbi and cia are mortal enemies Let me be very clear about two things: First of all, I'm a man, not a boy. Secondly, I defy you to find an ounce of pride in my personality
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Jul 9, 2021 22:01
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CHIMlord posted:I can't believe I've read ML's arguing that antifa is bad. How unfortunate for you that they don't take orders from you and are happy when bad things happen to their enemies. God forbid leftists actually prefer fighting fascism instead of getting talked down to by a bunch of would-be middle managers with weird nationalist aesthetics. Here's a left-communist piece (probably sufficiently left-wing for you, even posted on libcom despite the major disagreements leftcoms have with anarchists) on why antifa is kind of pointless https://libcom.org/library/when-insurrections-die "According to current left-wing wisdom, fascism is raw state power and brutal capital unmasked, so the only way to do away with fascism is to get rid of capitalism altogether. So far, so good. Unfortunately, the analysis usually turns round on itself: since fascism is capitalism at its worst, we ought to prevent it from actually producing its worst, i.e. we ought to fight for a “normal”, non-fascist capitalism, and even rally non-fascist capitalists. Moreover, as fascism is capital in its most reactionary forms, such a vision means trying to promote capital in its most modern, non-feudal, non-militarist, non-racist, non-repressive, non-reactionary forms, i.e. a more liberal capitalism, in other words a more capitalist capitalism. While it goes on at length to explain how fascism serves the interests of “big business”3, anti-fascism maintains that fascism could have been averted in 1922 or 1933 anyway, that is without destroying big business, if the workers’ movement and/or the democrats had mounted enough pressure to bar Mussolini and Hitler from power. Anti-fascism is an endless comedy of sorrows: if only, in 1921, the Italian Socialist Party and the newly-founded Italian Communist Party had allied with Republican forces to stop Mussolini… if only, at the beginning of the 1930’s, the KPD had not launched a fratricidal struggle against the SPD, Europe would have been spared one of the most ferocious dictatorships in history, a second world war, a Nazi empire of almost continental dimensions, the concentration camps, and the extermination of the Jews. Above and beyond its very true observations about classes, the state, and the ties between fascism and big industry, this vision fails to see that fascism arose out of a two-fold failure: the failure of revolutionaries after World War I, crushed as they were by social-democracy and parliamentary democracy, and then, in the course of the 1920’s, the failure of the democrats and social-democrats in managing capital. Without a grasp of the preceding period as well as of the earlier phase of class struggle and its limits, the coming to power, and still more the nature of fascism, remain incomprehensible. What is the real thrust of fascism, if not the economic and political unification of capital, a tendency which has become general since 1914? Fascism was a particular way of bringing about that unity in countries — Italy and Germany — where, even though the revolution had been snuffed out, the state was unable to impose order, including order in the ranks of the bourgeoisie. Mussolini was no Thiers, with a solid base in power, ordering regular forces to massacre the Communards. An essential aspect of fascism is its birth in the streets, its use of disorder to impose order, its mobilisation of the old middle classes crazed by their own decline, and its regeneration, from without, of a state unable to deal with the crisis of capitalism. Fascism was an effort of the bourgeoisie to forcibly tame its own contradictions, to turn working class methods of mobilisation to its own advantage, and to deploy all the resources of the modern state, first against an internal enemy, then against an external one. This was indeed a crisis of the state, during the transition to the total domination of capital over society. First, workers’ organisations had been necessary to deal with the proletarian upsurge; then, fascism was required to put an end to the ensuing disorder. This disorder was, of course, not revolutionary, but it was paralysing, and stood in the way of solutions which, as a result, could only be violent. This crisis was only erratically overcome at the time: the fascist state was efficient only in appearance, because it forcibly integrated the wage-labour work force, and artificially buried conflicts by projecting them into militarist adventure. But the crisis was overcome, relatively, by the multi-tentacled democratic state established in 1945, which potentially appropriated all of fascism’s methods, and added some of its own, since it neutralises wage-worker organisations without destroying them. Parliaments have lost control over the executive. With welfare or with workfare, by modern techniques of surveillance or by state assistance extended to millions of individuals, in short by a system which makes everyone more and more dependent, social unification goes beyond anything achieved by fascist terror, but fascism as a specific movement has disappeared. It corresponded to the forced-march discipline of the bourgeoisie, under the pressure of the state, in the particular context of newly created states hard-pressed to constitute themselves as nations. The bourgeoisie even took the word “fascism” from working class organisations in Italy, which were often called fasci. It is significant that fascism first defined itself as a form of organisation and not as a programme. The word referred both to a symbol of state power (fasces, or bundles, borne before high officials in Ancient Rome), and to a will to get people together in bundles (groups). Fascism’s only programme is to organise, to forcibly make the components of society converge. Dictatorship is not a weapon of capital (as if capital could replace it with other, less brutal weapons): dictatorship is one of its tendencies, a tendency realised whenever it is deemed necessary. A “return” to parliamentary democracy, as it occurred in Germany after 1945, indicates that dictatorship is useless for integrating the masses into the state (at least until the next time). The problem is therefore not that democracy ensures a more pliant domination than dictatorship: anyone would prefer being exploited in the Swedish mode to being abducted by the henchmen of Pinochet. But does one have the choice? Even the gentle democracy of Scandinavia would be turned into a dictatorship if circumstances demanded it. The state can only have one function, which it fulfils democratically or dictatorially. The fact that the former is less harsh does not mean that it is possible to reorient the state to dispense with the latter. Capitalism’s forms depend no more on the preferences of wage workers than they do on the intentions of the bourgeoisie. Weimar capitulated to Hitler with open arms. Léon Blum’s Popular Front did not “avoid fascism”, because in 1936 France required neither an authoritarian unification of capital nor a shrinking of its middle classes. There is no political “choice” to which proletarians could be enticed or which could be forcibly imposed. Democracy is not dictatorship, but democracy does prepare dictatorship, and prepares itself for dictatorship. The essence of anti-fascism consists in resisting fascism by defending democracy: one no longer struggles against capitalism but seeks to pressure capitalism into renouncing the totalitarian option. Since socialism is identified with total democracy, and capitalism with an accelerating tendency to fascism, the antagonisms between proletariat and capital, communism and wage-labour, proletariat and state, are rejected for a counter-position of democracy and fascism presented as the quintessential revolutionary perspective. The official left and far left tell us that a real change would be the realisation, at last, of the ideals of 1789, endlessly betrayed by the bourgeoisie. The new world? Why, it is already here, to some extent, in embryos to be preserved, in little buds to be tended: already existing democratic rights must be pushed further and further within an infinitely perfectible society, with ever-greater daily doses of democracy, until the achievement of complete democracy, or socialism. Thus reduced to anti-fascist resistance, social critique is enlisted in dithyrambs to everything it once denounced, and gives up nothing less than that shop-worn affair, revolution, for gradualism, a variant on the “peaceful transition to socialism” once advocated by the CPs, and derided, thirty years ago, by anyone serious about changing the world. The retrogression is palpable. We won’t invite ridicule by accusing the left and far left of having discarded a communist perspective which they knew in reality only when opposing it. It is all too obvious that anti-fascism renounces revolution. But anti-fascism fails exactly where its realism claims to be effective: in preventing a possible dictatorial mutation of society. Bourgeois democracy is a phase in capital’s seizure of power, and its extension in the 20th century completes capital’s domination by intensifying the isolation of individuals. Proposed as a remedy for the separation between man and community, between human activity and society, and between classes, democracy will never be able to solve the problem of the most separated society in history. As a form forever incapable of modifying its content, democracy is only a part of the problem to which it claims to be the solution. Each time it claims to strengthen the “social bond”, democracy contributes to its dissolution. Each time it papers over the contradictions of the commodity, it does so by tightening the hold of the net which the state has placed over social relations. Even in their own desperately resigned terms, the anti-fascists, to be credible, have to explain to us how local democracy is compatible with the colonisation of the commodity which empties out public space, and fills up the shopping malls. They have to explain how an omnipresent state to which people turn for protection and help, this veritable machine for producing social “good”, will not commit “evil” when explosive contradictions require it to restore order. Fascism is the adulation of the statist monster, while anti-fascism is its more subtle apology. The fight for a democratic state is inevitably a fight to consolidate the state, and far from crippling totalitarianism, such a fight increases totalitarianism’s stranglehold on society." Yossarian-22 has issued a correction as of 22:06 on Jul 9, 2021 |
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Jul 9, 2021 22:02
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as we all know, the most successful antifa org in history was the soviet red army
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Jul 9, 2021 22:08
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christmas boots posted:Disgusting. I'm FBI through and through Living the dream brother. Entrapping a mentally ill muslim kid on 1 monitor, entrapping a trump dullard on another, and finally posting in cspam on the third.
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Jul 9, 2021 22:12
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Top City Homo posted:Literal mental illness You are correct, comrade  Thanks for posting this! I'm something of a leftcom myself, possibly even the fabled libertarian Marxist (tho I'm more of a post-Marxist). I have heard this critique before and I more or less agree with it. Antifa is more a tactic than a strategy, and is laughable without anti-capitalism. It's mostly useful on a local level, but still necessary in times and places of increased fascist agitation (like the West right now)
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Jul 9, 2021 22:25
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CHIMlord posted:You are correct, comrade Thing is, I think most of the hatred against anarchists here is related to the worst offenders who are way too gullible about about apparent "liberal" and "democratic" movements in communist countries (Hungary 1956 is an interesting case though). It's also a reaction to occupy and similar student movements which have been incredibly feckless and shy about exercising power and making demands of institutions, the type of person who is more concerned about hierarchy than inequality, more or less an anarcho-liberal tendency that has become more and more popular among a middle class milieu. Yossarian-22 has issued a correction as of 06:06 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 04:56
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Yossarian-22 posted:Thing is, I think most of the hatred against anarchists here is related to the worst offenders who are way too gullible about about apparent "liberal" and "democratic" movements in communist countries (Hungary 1956 is an interesting case though). It's also a reaction to occupy and similar student movements which have been incredibly feckless and shy about exercising power and making demands of institutions, the type of person who is more concerned about hierarchy and inequality, more or less an anarcho-liberal tendency that has become more and more popular among a middle class milieu. representation based on proportional equity is basically aristocratic collegiality. If you were a noble you were afforded respect and polite decor between each other even in war. but the peasants were never afforded anything because they weren't equal we have a problem where a lot of young people were taught in universities to be trained for leadership but they are working at starbucks instead the problem is that this anarchic rebellion is partially this aristocratic outrage that they don't have what they were promised. This is not to dismiss legitimate concerns but we have to realize that we aren't slighted aristocrats but maligned peasants and when we do that we can organize to bust some heads
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Jul 10, 2021 05:28
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CHIMlord posted:I can't believe I've read ML's arguing that antifa is bad. How unfortunate for you that they don't take orders from you and are happy when bad things happen to their enemies. God forbid leftists actually prefer fighting fascism instead of getting talked down to by a bunch of would-be middle managers with weird nationalist aesthetics. figures, an anarchist claims the mantle of the sole rent seeker of the CHIM and all they can do is whine and moan about dumb bullshit that exists only in their own head sorry bub but the Kronstadt morons were condemned even by contemporary anarchists for being huge morons that lined up to get owned
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Jul 10, 2021 05:59
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The Kronstadt workers/soldiers were responding to the degeneration of socialism that was happening as a result of the totally devastating civil war and their reaction was understandable, even noble insofar as they thought they could bring back "real socialism." It might not have been useful in any way, but if you look at post-Civil War conditions in Russia and the amount workers and peasants were forced to submit to in terms of war rationing it's hard to dismiss it as the romantic cravings of some adventurists. Otoh I think the suppression of the revolt was perfectly understandable as well given the kind of foreign interference the USSR was being subjected to at the time.
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Jul 10, 2021 06:15
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Ferrinus posted:you should go back to that marxists.org link i posted written by karl radek about the kronstadt uprising and read the first part Comrade Radek is correct: I am a lazy peasant at a generational remove who is contemptuous of my betters, and my indolence and disobedience will surely doom us all. Also, this whole "revolutionary vanguard" thing seems like a cult (especially the belief that one specific communist party are the only ones who can successfully prosecute anti-capitalist revolution). What if the workers don't want them in charge anymore? Can they be recalled? What if the vanguard becomes straight up antisocial (e.g. the Shining Path or Khmer Rouge)?
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Jul 10, 2021 15:13
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CHIMlord posted:Also, this whole "revolutionary vanguard" thing seems like a cult (especially the belief that one specific communist party are the only ones who can successfully prosecute anti-capitalist revolution). What if the workers don't want them in charge anymore? Can they be recalled? What if the vanguard becomes straight up antisocial (e.g. the Shining Path or Khmer Rouge)? the idea of a revolutionary vanguard only works in 19th century russia. if you try to plot some big conspiracy today in america you will quickly be discovered and infiltrated by the FBI/CIA/NSA/ATF/Whatever. trying to do that form of revolution again is a joke
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Jul 10, 2021 15:37
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you may be surprised to learn of what was happening in 19th and early 20th century russia re their secret police and the various revolutionary parties, if were interested in actually reading history
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Jul 10, 2021 16:53
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mila kunis posted:you may be surprised to learn of what was happening in 19th and early 20th century russia re their secret police and the various revolutionary parties, if were interested in actually reading history in a twist! the head of the sr combat division, the crimes squad, was actually a police agent
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Jul 10, 2021 17:28
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CHIMlord posted:Comrade Radek is correct: I am a lazy peasant at a generational remove who is contemptuous of my betters, and my indolence and disobedience will surely doom us all. your indolence and disobedience won't be the doom of us all, but they WILL be a gift to the conscious, conspiratorial forces of reaction that will seize on you immediately to try to reverse the revolution, and so only a disciplined vanguard can protect you from yourself in this arena quote:Also, this whole "revolutionary vanguard" thing seems like a cult (especially the belief that one specific communist party are the only ones who can successfully prosecute anti-capitalist revolution). What if the workers don't want them in charge anymore? Can they be recalled? What if the vanguard becomes straight up antisocial (e.g. the Shining Path or Khmer Rouge)? https://www.marxists.org/archive/guevara/1963/09/guerrilla-warfare.htm No-one can solicit the role of vanguard party as if it were a diploma given by a university. To be the vanguard party means to be at the forefront of the working class through the struggle for achieving power. It means to know how to guide this fight through shortcuts to victory. This is the mission of our revolutionary parties and the analysis must be profound and exhaustive so that there will be no mistakes. Ferrinus has issued a correction as of 17:48 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 17:31
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Me, as a rib stand in the heart of my AZ has been taken over by violent reactionaries but still openly operates and a TikTok influencer is handing out firearms to his loyalists: "Look, Communism of some flavor is the economic mode for almost 2 billion people today but they are overwhelmingly non-white, so of course they are just too foolish to reckon with things like contradictions regarding a vanguard force and how existing forces may seek to infiltrate or redirect that power. If only they had the sense to embrace the much more enlightened majority white and western flavor of capitalist alternatives, why all these problems with the application of force and violence would go away"
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Jul 10, 2021 17:38
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Council Communism is basically all power to the Soviets without any vanguard party at the helm, but rather a central committee of recallable workers' delegates in charge of the state machinery. I think the party mechanism becomes more necessary in proportion to a country's state of development and international isolation, even if it risks becoming a bureaucratic clique that hoards the resources of the state. If you are trying to resist foreign encroachment that is a good thing. But then, also worth keeping in mind that 20th century socialist revolutions were in overwhelmingly agricultural countries, so hypothetically we can have a much more "councilist" revolution today.
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Jul 10, 2021 18:46
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Yossarian-22 posted:Council Communism is basically all power to the Soviets without any vanguard party at the helm, but rather a central committee of recallable workers' delegates in charge of the state machinery. I think the party mechanism becomes more necessary in proportion to a country's state of development and international isolation, even if it risks becoming a bureaucratic clique that hoards the resources of the state. If you are trying to resist foreign encroachment that is a good thing. But then, also worth keeping in mind that 20th century socialist revolutions were in overwhelmingly agricultural countries, so hypothetically we can have a much more "councilist" revolution today. There is no difference between council communists and Marxist Leninism other than council communists exist in the head of one guy and a couple of college students and Marxist Leninist put council communism into practice and adjusted to reality
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Jul 10, 2021 19:25
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Cpt_Obvious posted:https://twitter.com/protestantwind/status/1414717503003975684?s=19
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Jul 13, 2021 01:25
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ban twitter from c-spam
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Jul 13, 2021 21:26
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matti posted:ban twitter from c-spam 
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Jul 13, 2021 21:37
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Yossarian-22 posted:Here's a left-communist piece (probably sufficiently left-wing for you, even posted on libcom despite the major disagreements leftcoms have with anarchists) on why antifa is kind of pointless https://libcom.org/library/when-insurrections-die
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Jul 13, 2021 22:19
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Dear Anarchists, Please don't repeat and reinforce narratives being crafted by the US government and media designed to undermine "authoritarian" Cuba and prepare our population for Iraq 3.0. You're being manipulated into providing left-wing cover for an imperialist intervention. Thanks.
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Jul 14, 2021 01:06
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