|
Radical posted:i feel like there used to be way more hilariously malicious gacha stuff in asia before the governments started telling companies to clean up their act (or else.) maybe the EU as a whole will eventually get more serious about this, but for now they're just asking "how badly can we punish our customers before it matters?" and the line where it matters is ever farther off into the distance. EU is already looking into it ( https://www.businessinsider.com/loot-boxes-european-regulation-2018-9 or https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2020/652727/IPOL_STU(2020)652727_EN.pdf or https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2019-004184_EN.html ). But yeah, there have been steps in Asia as well - you can see two of those in Genshin as well. By law every gacha has to show drop percentages (that 0.6 % for 5* Genshin has) and for Chinese ones they need to not be able to roll directly for money/bought currency (that's why there's an extra currency in-between).
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 00:10 |
|
|
Harrow posted:Yeah, to put this in perspective for someone whose only gacha so far has been Genshin Impact: Thanks. What these points about sports game do for me is solidify that this comes down to how an individual spends their disposable income recreationally. IMO while discussions like this are interesting, this thread in general could use a lot less preaching and empty moralization on the subject. I think we see that here because this game/thread is many people's first exposure to this form of gambling. With that comes the realization of how predatory it is and a desire to warn people who might be vulnerable. But, as you and others point out, this is nothing new, and maybe isn't a problem that warrants this level of concern. The vast majority of people who gamble do so without problems - meaning they do so for a limited time, with predetermined acceptable losses, and without it being their primary form of recreation. Studies the last 10 years show under 3% of gamblers are problem gamblers and less than 1% are pathological. Further, a problem or pathological gambler is already spending a good deal of time in a guilt cycle over it, and are only likely to respond positively to people that show they are concerned about the gambler and actually care about them and their well-being. Telling someone like this how dumb they are doesn't help. Showing them the math doesn't help. Telling them what a bad idea it is doesn't help. What it does do is harm them by feeding the sense of shame and social isolation that are driving factors for the downward leg of the cycle of addiction. So tl;dr: if someone's gambling on this game is harmless, shaming them makes them feel bad to no good end. And if it's a problem or pathological, this kind of intervention is most likely to make the problem worse. So, maybe it's not the best way to spend our time discussing this cool game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/SsukunaaA/status/1413865964987248647
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 16:46
|
|
|
after that trailer i knew they were gonna gently caress us on Kokomi
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 16:49
|
|
|
Radical posted:i feel like there used to be way more hilariously malicious gacha stuff in asia before the governments started telling companies to clean up their act (or else.) maybe the EU as a whole will eventually get more serious about this, but for now they're just asking "how badly can we punish our customers before it matters?" and the line where it matters is ever farther off into the distance. It was something called Complete-Gacha that I know was banned where you'd have to roll for multiple things to then make a complete thing to get the thing that you actually wanted. A sleazy way to get people who would otherwise just get one thing on a banner and call it quits to keep going at it. My issue with gacha from a personal standpoint is less the monetary exploitation thing (since I just don't have an addictive personality in the slightest where it'd ever be an issue) so much as it's just decimated what Japan will consider as a game and what companies are willing to invest the most time and effort into developing, which is still often just basic cookie cutter auto battle JRPGs you play on your tiny little phone screen. It's pretty loving ridiculous that we live in a time of 4K Ultra HD resolutions and graphics on 60 inch televisions, high speed internet, detailed character modelling and shading tools that can now replicate things like cartoon/anime art styles and even hyper realistic graphics very well......and yet the country that basically popularized and revitalized the video game industry in the 80's after the legendary crash and it almost being considered a passing fad with Atari think for the better part of 7-8 years now that the ideal video game is high quality pixiv artists JPEG splash art collection with a popular voice actor attached to it.....that typically you don't even get to use in game since it'll often be a much easier to animate chibi version of the character twitchy undulating around a screen 2-3 frame attacking stuff for 7 digit figures of damage. Needless to say I wouldn't be touching Genshin Impact without the actual game component and actual utilization of the capabilities of the 400 dollar console hardware I bought.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 16:51
|
|
|
hope those 4* are correct so I don't have to worry about pity for more than just baal/maybe ganyu
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 17:03
|
|
|
chinese mobile games are way more likely to be real videogames and they just hire japanese voice actors artists. i made my peace with the death of japanese videogames long ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
Radical posted:chinese mobile games are way more likely to be real videogames and they just hire japanese voice actors artists. i made my peace with the death of japanese videogames long ago. Japan has been knocking it out of the park with video games lately tho
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 17:07
|
|
|
Andrast posted:Japan has been knocking it out of the park with video games lately tho Yeah when they try they try and just export the game to the rest of the world and it's pretty well received like a Resident Evil VIII or FFVII Remake. It just feels like that sort of thing has slowed down a lot recently Covid or not and the executive producers that get poo poo green-lit would really just rather be doing yet another mobile phone RPG gacha game by default for any given property as default option 1 since even moderate investment risk is still seen as a huge no no in Japanese business culture. What I call "prevailing wisdom" is also big in corporate culture in Japan and right now regardless of what the rest of the world thinks the prevailing wisdom in executive circles still seems very much big on the whole gacha/auto-battle JRPG for Android/IOS as the one true proven business model for games, even if they have to rely on Asia (specifically Japan) for it and these types of games tend to perform far far worse in overseas markets on average. Fortunately in spite of all this the global market for video games has still ultimately opened up a LOT more in recent times so this model for HD Console games is able to work somewhat and Steam has really facilitated options for devs/publishers with not a whole lot of capital. I remember reading an interview from the Fire Emblem producer saying that things have kind of reversed in the last decade from how he remembers them being in the 90's and 2000's where they now expect the vast majority of the sales for the franchise to come from overseas markets. Ditto Final Fantasy, though that flip started happening much much earlier around the time of FFVI apparently. Again it's the absolute cookie cutter nature of most of these games and the limitations of the mobile format that is my biggest issue with them, not the monetization, lovely and limiting as it often is to have to get your characters and gear that way rather than through story/challenge means. Actual wait maybe that is an issue too since a lot of the limitation and cookie cutter aspect is a direct result of the monetization method. 
Kale fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jul 10, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 17:33
|
|
|
They're not making the ones they like, maybe
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 17:35
|
|
|
Tae posted:They're not making the ones they like, maybe That's a good way to look at my beef with it. I just think they've taken the whole auto-battle JRPG with gacha elements for mobile platforms about as far as they can possibly take it now honestly. Despite using the gacha model Genshin Impact is practically a breath of fresh air revelation for F2P GAAS. Actual exploration, role-playing and questing...I mean what a concept. dogsicle posted:after that trailer i knew they were gonna gently caress us on Kokomi I thought she was supposed to be some sort of dancer or something as opposed to a resistance leader so that came as a surprise to me. It also makes such a difference in impression seeing them in game in a trailer doing stuff rather than the leaked T-Pose model we got for them all a while back. Kale fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jul 10, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 17:50
|
|
|
Kale posted:I thought she was supposed to be some sort of dancer or something as opposed to a resistance leader so that came as a surprise to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 18:10
|
|
|
My most hosed up gacha experiences are guild wars 2 just having a casino in game that you can burn real money currency into the air at and then loving afk arena which is just the most soulless cynical husk of a game that just spends every moment trying to manipulate you into spending money. Also in afk its not clear if there are actual human beings being paid for the whole ‘live service’ thing that people make believe micro transactions pay for or if they just made an automated delivery system that will run years into the future.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 18:13
|
|
|
MajorBonnet posted:She could be both. Inazuma has shades of the town from Footloose. On the other hand too also anime style where it really doesn't matter how you dress or look vis-a-vis your occupation. It's probably gonna be something over the top colorful and elaborate that can be marketed for cosplay and/or very skimpy. That outfit could be a dancer....or it could be a mighty warrior military genius resistance leader. Or it could even indeed be both.  Also what is Baal basically just firebrand pulpit pounding John Lithgow telling the people no more vision fun allowed? Thing is you find out in that movie that spoilers for literal Footloose starring Kevin Bacon:he's kind of playing the strict authoritarian preacher that got dancing and alcohol banned in the town for what he feels are legitimately good intentions borne out of immense personal grief and has just taken things too far to where the people aren't actually happy so much as afraid of disappointing him. With Baal it sounds so far that she's playing the authoritarian cause she's gotten way to high on her god hood status and thinks everyone else is weak and beneath her divine perfectly perfectness and thus don't deserve toys and blessings of heaven. I'm sure there's more too it since your apparently supposed to be able to get her eventually, but yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 18:42
|
|
|
Andrast posted:Japan has been knocking it out of the park with video games lately tho yeah i think japanese console games are still great, but when you consider proportionally how many japanese language mobile games come out vs. console games they're a really small percent of the overall industry. a lot of the cool, niche japan only studios that would make like, PSP games, have either gone out of business or moved on to mobile games. ill try out new japanese mobile games now and then, and i really just don't like any of them. i know a lot of other people really love the sort of autobattle, moeblob jpeg collector mobage genre but it just ain't what im looking for.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 18:45
|
|
|
all the talk about eternity vs the fleeting nature of lightning just makes me feel like Baal will have a classic grief/regret motivation where the Vision Hunt is her ends-justify-the-means solution to gain some level of power she wouldn't have otherwise and right (or prevent the reoccurrence of) whatever put her into this state.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 18:48
|
|
|
We also know that Zhongli has a contract that keeps him from discussing certain things. It may be that Baal is trying to break the spirit of a contract without breaking the letter? I'll be interested to see where they take her story.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 19:08
|
|
|
SlimGoodbody posted:The Eula thigh-squish is absolutely God tier This is from a couple pages ago but it's nice to meet another person of exquisite taste. My wife and I talk a lot about our favorite elements of character design and voice acting but even though we've discussed who has the best tits (Beidou), or who is the cutest boy (she loves Bennet, but Albedo is clearly dreamy), I keep the secret of Eula's thighs to myself.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 19:16
|
|
|
There's still no confirmation as to what's coming in 2.1. There have been rumors of 2 reruns (oldest rumors), 1 rerun (more recent rumors), and 0 reruns (Kokomi/Raiden, most recent rumors). If Raiden is a big priority for you you might want to wait a few days before pulling Ayaka as by the beginning of 2.0 we should hopefully have a better sense of what's in 2.1.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 19:24
|
|
|
I had figured Sara would be a 4*, given the level of complexity in her character design, but it's good to have the confirmation. She reminds me a lot of my fav unit from Onmyoji, so I want to get her if possible.  Kale posted:It also makes such a difference in impression seeing them in game in a trailer doing stuff rather than the leaked T-Pose model we got for them all a while back. For sure. I had zero interest in Kokomi before this trailer, but now she's at the top of my list. Kale posted:the executive producers that get poo poo green-lit would really just rather be doing yet another mobile phone RPG gacha game by default for any given property as default option 1 since even moderate investment risk is still seen as a huge no no in Japanese business culture. What I call "prevailing wisdom" is also big in corporate culture in Japan and right now regardless of what the rest of the world thinks the prevailing wisdom in executive circles still seems very much big on the whole gacha/auto-battle JRPG for Android/IOS as the one true proven business model for games, even if they have to rely on Asia (specifically Japan) for it and these types of games tend to perform far far worse in overseas markets on average. I think it's down to this, yeah. Execs want the safe, well-trodden, guaranteed profit; if presented with a choice between putting a moderate amount of resources into a mediocre copy of a popular, well-crafted game (with different chrome) and putting a ton of resources into an innovative but experimental venture that has the potential to flop, they'll pick the former option. This creates a certain pattern: someone innovates and the result becomes very popular; once people have finished the original and are craving more, someone else comes out with a decent copy that scratches the itch; others catch onto the coming trend and make their own copies; after short while, a genre forms; after a longer while, enough people have put their hats in the ring that 90% of what's in the genre superficially apes the past success stories and adheres to the established formulas without examining them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
Beta Sign-ups for 2.1 have already started, and it is the world's easiest leak to figure out if Ganyu or Baal is on the testing list. The rumored character to appear in 2.1 for a rerun is Yunjin who we already have fully rendered models for and she's not Inazaumian.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 19:37
|
|
|
Kale posted:It just feels like that sort of thing has slowed down a lot recently Covid or not and the executive producers that get poo poo green-lit would really just rather be doing yet another mobile phone RPG gacha game by default for any given property as default option 1 since even moderate investment risk is still seen as a huge no no in Japanese business culture. In a rare positive turn of events on this front, the SaGa gacha game being wildly popular has led to a revival of the actual SaGa series, with excellent remasters of the classic games and a new game actually in development. That's not how it always goes but I'm just happy to see SaGa coming back.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 19:40
|
|
|
ignoring that the weapon banner change is kind of a stupid non-fix for most players, it does seem like something that could be used to improve event banners. lock in a 4* target and if you whiff them, you're eventually guaranteed a copy. trying to get them normally is otherwise a similar to the potentially endless treadmill that targeting weapons was.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 19:46
|
|
|
This is probably me being too pessimistic but it feels like the Fate Point system could also be used on future 5* rerun banners. Eventually there are going to be enough 5*s needing reruns that doing one event banner at a time isn't going to cut it. They could always just run two banners, that'd be fine, but the other possibility is two 5* reruns on one banner, like the weapon banner. I'm just speculating, though, there's no indication one way or the other and I'm not sure how they handle things like that for Honkai Impact.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 19:58
|
|
|
That would be cool so I could target more Rosaria constellations in the future. Would love to have that C6 physical resist shred for Eula.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 20:01
|
|
|
Harrow posted:This is probably me being too pessimistic but it feels like the Fate Point system could also be used on future 5* rerun banners. Eventually there are going to be enough 5*s needing reruns that doing one event banner at a time isn't going to cut it. They could always just run two banners, that'd be fine, but the other possibility is two 5* reruns on one banner, like the weapon banner. I doubt they would make the normal summoning experience worse than it is now, the backlash would be immense
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
SynthesisAlpha posted:This is from a couple pages ago but it's nice to meet another person of exquisite taste. Albedo definitely had the crown pre-Kazuha. Now it’s a tough choice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 21:05
|
|
|
I think Albedo still has my favorite trailer though. It just hit different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o24PgMcMUOs
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 21:26
|
|
|
so it turns out the combat challenges move each day, which in retrospect is obvious but it doesn't make me feel better about grinding out a 2k+ max difficulty clear against yesterday's challenge again, except this time with a team completely lacking cryo as i constantly wonder why the anemo gimmick doesn't seem to be triggering.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 21:29
|
|
|
What’s the best way to handle three ruin guardians at the same time with tops lvl 50 players? I’m near the geo hypostasus place and I can’t seem to lure any of them into the water to hit them with freeze ala Kaeya and then electro with Lisa. I thought I could round them up with sucrose but that hasn’t worked and they bunch up so close that they hit me with the spinny arms one after the other so I can’t recover.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 22:58
|
|
|
TV Zombie posted:What’s the best way to handle three ruin guardians at the same time with tops lvl 50 players? I’m near the geo hypostasus place and I can’t seem to lure any of them into the water to hit them with freeze ala Kaeya and then electro with Lisa. I thought I could round them up with sucrose but that hasn’t worked and they bunch up so close that they hit me with the spinny arms one after the other so I can’t recover. You can see them when they start to use spinny arms so run away when that happens. You'll probably want some strong Shields or ranged capability unless you happen to have Zhongli. They're guarding a precious chest I think, which is nice, but not absolutely essential. You could always revisit then once you've leveled up a bit more
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 23:23
|
|
|
TV Zombie posted:What’s the best way to handle three ruin guardians at the same time with tops lvl 50 players? I’m near the geo hypostasus place and I can’t seem to lure any of them into the water to hit them with freeze ala Kaeya and then electro with Lisa. I thought I could round them up with sucrose but that hasn’t worked and they bunch up so close that they hit me with the spinny arms one after the other so I can’t recover. The solution is just lots of running and shooting them in the face with a charged arrow to stun them in my experience. There's a small delay as they reel back from being hit before you hit them a second time and they completely collapse. You really want to get them load up and start firing missiles so you can dodge and shoot them. Also try to use elemental damage if you can manage it, they have physical damage resistance. Sanya Juutilainen posted:KanColle isn't really a gacha, more of a resource management sim. You buy slots for girls, not girls themselves. And while you could buy resources for running an event further, over the years I've seen stories about like two people doing that - 99.9 % of players who run out of resources during event are like "Oh well, there will be another event, better start saving up resources now" as pretty much anything you can buy for the game has better (long-term) value over resources. I just kinda filed it in my head as a mobile game and I just assumed they were basically the same without ever actually checking. That's my bad.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 23:33
|
|
|
Draxion posted:You can get a free claymore billet at the end of the Dragonspine claymore questline (look up a guide for Ancient Carvings). It wants you to make Snow-Tombed Starsilver or whatever but you could make Archaic with it instead. The dragonspine claymore questline gives you a free starsilver, not a billet. The 2 claymore billets are at the three hilichurl tribes world quest and Liyue store iirc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 23:43
|
|
|
Kale posted:It was something called Complete-Gacha that I know was banned where you'd have to roll for multiple things to then make a complete thing to get the thing that you actually wanted. A sleazy way to get people who would otherwise just get one thing on a banner and call it quits to keep going at it. One of the worst consequences of this is the next Nier game being a mobile game. It actually kind of baffles me that people play certain gacha games when far superior ones exist. Like why would you play something like the DBZ gacha game when you could play something like Arknights instead. I mean, I get that the answer is "familiar franchise and characters," but god drat the difference in gameplay and content quality is so dramatic. The gacha system also doesn't even work well with most franchises, resulting in there just being like 20 different versions of each characters from the franchise in question (FGO is a rare exception to this where the franchise is perfectly suited to the gacha system).
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 23:52
|
|
|
Hackan Slash posted:The dragonspine claymore questline gives you a free starsilver, not a billet. The 2 claymore billets are at the three hilichurl tribes world quest and Liyue store iirc. Yeah, you're right, confused it with the spear one the tree gives you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
Kale posted:The Neverending Battle event seems pretty poo poo if your F2P and still hovering around the 50-60's in terms of levels. The Kaboom Ball one I aced cause it's not based around anything other than skill and reaction time and the one where you fight the 3 bosses I could also hack on normal with some handicaps even albeit with some struggle, but this one I'm stuck doing the lowest difficulty and can barely manage 350 pts with food buffs, let alone 500, let alone 2000, which I'm not even going to try since I just at least wanted the primo gems. Haven't done today's challenge yet, and I've picked up Welkin a few months so I'm not quite F2P, but I had much better luck mostly ignoring the gimmick than using Eula, and cleared with an all 4-star team. Bring Sucrose or someone else who is good at clustering enemies. Bring someone who can either trigger a lot of elemental reactions or doesn't need them for the slimes--I used TF Bennett, since I wanted Bennett on my team for the buffs and healing too, but Diluc or Xiangling or a cryo or physical DPS probably works well--I know Eula had an easier time with this stage than Bennett. And then bring whatever your main crowd carry is for the rest. Actually if your main crowd "carry" isn't electro or "Sucrose and an Electro," you can probably skip bringing someone specifically for the slimes. This took me from barely breaking 1500 with Eula/Beidou/Diona/Xinyan to breaking 2200 with Sucrose/Fischl/Bennett/Diona (probably could have skipped Diona.) So hopefully, something similar should be able to pull you over the 500 mark, at least. (Really in general, if people online say to use Venti, Sucrose is either a decent substitute or actually a better choice.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2021 23:59
|
|
|
It worked out that I had a bunch of good artifacts on hand to throw at Rosaria since I'd been farming for a bit anyways. Put a bit of effort to get the Skyward Spine to 60 and have Rosaria herself at 60. Even at 1/1/4 talent levels uhhhh yeah she's putting in really good work as a Sub-DPS drat. Skyward Spine puts her right at that 140% ER sweetspot without really trying to get any on artifacts and it's working out real well. So now I'm running a Triple Cryo comp with Eula/Fischl/Qiqi/Rosaria. In theory I should have a good time in Inazuma given Electro will likely be the most prominent element of enemies of there which is even more free Superconduct.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2021 00:09
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:I just kinda filed it in my head as a mobile game and I just assumed they were basically the same without ever actually checking. That's my bad. No problem, it's a common misconception I see floating around. KanColle actually makes very little money from the game itself (and devs aren't incentivized to make more, because DMM - hosting site - takes most money) and majority of the income is from merchandise and live events, to the chagrin of western players. Even seen some voices they'd prefer more gacha or at least sold cosmetics in the game in exchange for more western-ish support, as majority of western players can't visit stuff like IRL Zuiun festival or KanColle on ice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2021 02:31
|
|
|
I accidentally interacted with the sandwich board outside Diona's bar and only just today realized it's not just a fake ad like a bunch of the other interactable signage, there's actually a whole bunch of different messages written by or referencing various characters. I love all the little flourishes of worldbuilding details in this game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2021 03:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 00:10 |
|
|
Decided to start farming up a Thundering Fury set due to it getting mentioned a lot and Inazuma nearing. Is a team based around it wearing multiple sets or just the main DPS?King of Bleh posted:I accidentally interacted with the sandwich board outside Diona's bar and only just today realized it's not just a fake ad like a bunch of the other interactable signage, there's actually a whole bunch of different messages written by or referencing various characters. I love all the little flourishes of worldbuilding details in this game. There's also some in Liyue that allude to different characters' actions. Wangshu Inn and Qince Village both have references to best popsicle boi Chongyun. One with him apologizing for getting heat-drunk from food (and someone telling him he made it a great night) and one NPC lady wanting to meet the exorcist that saved her from falling then peaced out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2021 04:39
|
|
