[Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

(Thread IKs: dead gay comedy forums)

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Ardennes posted:

They got pretty far to be honest. But arguably, it wasn't class antagonism (at least in a short term sense) that brought down but simply more situational gently caress ups and fighting absolutely doomed conflicts. Arguably, the Nazis would collapsed eventually because their entire economic structure was based on a short-term time horizon.

That's all still rooted in the ideological delusions of fascism and nazism, though. Like, I'm not sure what greater class antagonism there is than a fascist dictatorship going to war with a proletarian dictatorship.

The Nazis would have collapsed not necessarily because of a lack of lucre but because of their ideological commitment to violence. The main problem with Nazi economics was providing material to both the civilian and military sectors, and once they've conquered everything they can then the resource problem is already solved. You can force as many slave races to do whatever you want as needed to support the Nazi economy. The problem is, once you've run out of living space and there's no longer a frontier to expand into then all of those expansionistic energies will get turned inward. A party that glorifies war as the highest human achievement will inevitably go to war with itself.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:18

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# ? May 23, 2024 14:10

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Anime Bernie Bro posted:

Sure, if you're looking at things rigidly thru a class-oriented lens, I'm sure the answer is something like "Fascism is what happens when Liberalism steadfastly refuses to accommodate the demands of Labor".

But the devotion to the Big Show is not merely an accidental property. Leni Riefenstahl, not Roehm or Strasser or even Hitler, is the prototypical fascist.

You're confusing the products of fascism for the thing itself. Leni Riefenstahl isn't more essentially fascist than any of the others because she got to direct a camera.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:22

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

Ardennes posted:

When have the capitalists ever been "brought to heel" under fascism? Arguably, the state has more direct control over the economy but arguably this is for the benefit of capitalists not their detriment. Porsche and Fiat aren't building tanks for free, far from it.

Doesn't this ignore the foreign capitalists that Germany invaded? To whom they owed a mountain of debt?

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:23

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Doesn't this ignore the foreign capitalists that Germany invaded? To whom they owed a mountain of debt?

non-German capitalists don�t matter, that�s what the �national� part means

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:25

The Voice of Labor: Apr 8, 2020

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

2) Fascism views the nation as a holistic body politic in a literal sense. The nation itself is a living organism, and the classes fulfill the function of its organs - each one acting harmoniously towards fulfilling national health. Alien or degenerate elements seek to weaken the national health & make it sick, and therefore must be expunged. The view of the nation as an organism overcomes the problem of viewing society through the lens of class conflict - by superseding it through the fascist party. The duty of the party is to direct the classes towards harmonious action, which represses conflict in the interests of the state. This is the essential anticommunist characteristic of fascism. Rather than viewing society in terms of class war, the classes must be engaged in the recreational pursuit of national warfare.

how does that account for fascism prior to full political ascendancy? the disaffected chuds, especially post trump loss, hate the loving government even if they love its police enforcers and corporate owners. I doubt your average protonazi weimar german was all that different

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:30

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

The Voice of Labor posted:

how does that account for fascism prior to full political ascendancy? the disaffected chuds, especially post trump loss, hate the loving government even if they love its police enforcers and corporate owners. I doubt your average protonazi weimar german was all that different

The pre-fascist nation is like a body without a brain, and fascists have good brain.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:33

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Doesn't this ignore the foreign capitalists that Germany invaded? To whom they owed a mountain of debt?

I think you're each using a different definition of "capitalist" here. Germany didn't invade Heineken and Philips, they invaded the Netherlands. Heineken and Philips managed the survive the Nazi occupation of their country just fine.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:35

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

indigi posted:

non-German capitalists don�t matter, that�s what the �national� part means

But to the capitalist, there aren't nations. There is no United States or Britain, there is Standard Oil and General Motors who have leverage of those states. Capitalism is global system, after all.

But when a military class seizes power, it sees foreign capital as the enemy (because they make the tanks of my enemies) and domestic capital as a means to an end. If making tanks requires placating domestic capital, then so be it.

The Voice of Labor posted:

how does that account for fascism prior to full political ascendancy? the disaffected chuds, especially post trump loss, hate the loving government even if they love its police enforcers and corporate owners. I doubt your average protonazi weimar german was all that different

See, this is exactly it. They worship the military (police included) but severely hate the "bankers" who have seized control over their beautiful country!

I'm just spitballing here so if I'm outta line let me know.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:36

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

Falstaff posted:

I think you're each using a different definition of "capitalist" here. Germany didn't invade Heineken and Philips, they invaded the Netherlands. Heineken and Philips managed the survive the Nazi occupation of their country just fine.

Quoting myself here, but I think this might have been, or at least came off as, too flippant (sorry about that). The fact is I that outside of the Netherlands (why I used this example), I don't know much about how the Nazis handled business in the territories they invaded. I know that they were very accommodating early in the war in the Netherlands, and less so as the war went on, and I know that they were very brutal to Polish business elites from the start. I suspect that for most other states they were somewhere in between these two points, but the fact is I don't know and I think I might try to do some reading about it.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:45

The Voice of Labor: Apr 8, 2020

Cpt_Obvious posted:

But to the capitalist, there aren't nations. There is no United States or Britain, there is Standard Oil and General Motors who have leverage of those states. Capitalism is global system, after all.

But when a military class seizes power, it sees foreign capital as the enemy (because they make the tanks of my enemies) and domestic capital as a means to an end. If making tanks requires placating domestic capital, then so be it.

otoh the more tanks foreign adversaries make, the more tanks domestic capital has to make. it's a win-win and solves the limited frontier problem with perpetual war

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:45

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Skoda for example was nationalized and merged with a holding company controlled by Goring.

Capitalism may easily extend across borders but that doesn�t mean capitalists aren�t happy to prey on other capitalists for their own benefit. If anything fascist innately creates a �in group� of industrialists that are protected and free to be prey where ever they want after the military accomplished its objectives.

Sometimes the needs of the state takes priority but usually �loyal industrialists� are treated with kid gloves because in the end the state exists to protect their interests.

Anyway, like I said, fascism is a short term solution since you eventually run out of loot and slaves to feed into it but it doesn�t mean it is destined to instantly self-destruct.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 04:54 on Jul 10, 2021

# ? Jul 10, 2021 04:50

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Fascists themselves aren't really interested in the nuts & bolts concerns of how to order and direct capital. They view themselves as already being "above" class, being actors on the national stage. They just want capitalists to do as they're told and act in the national interest. That's a problem if you want an actual bourgeois dictatorship, but at the same time collaborating with the fascist state guarantees what you want anyway - which is the maximization of profit through force.

Fascism in Italy was different then Nazism in that the big military industrial giants literally used Mussolini as their puppet while Nazis had a much more complementary relationship with their industrial giants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nddkvl_qqBk

quote:

The fascists thought of themselves as being anticapitalist, but their experiments in national socialism never panned out. Primarily because they weren't interested in the actual mechanical affairs of state that could make them happen. They just wanted to issue their dictates and it was the job of the organs to figure out how to make it happen. That's why the fascist state in Italy was a lot weaker than people suppose it was. The Nazis resolved this problem through ruthless technocratic bureaucracy. Essentially the Nazis had the power to force a square peg into a round hole and make everything work by command - and they had enough educated technicians and classes who knew how to make them work.

You misunderstood the nature of national socialism re the economy. the economics ideology of nazism was Krupp. it was conceived in the higher echelons of the Krupp executives and then integrated into the state itself. The economy was run by Krupp and IG Farben for Krupp and IG Farben. thats how they got it to work.

These documentaries are incredibly important

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNPHncu22Bk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtPGaG7g3CE

# ? Jul 10, 2021 05:14

The Voice of Labor: Apr 8, 2020

quote:

Beginning in 1943, Allied bombers targeted the main German industrial district in the Ruhr. Most damage at Krupp's works was actually to the slave labor camps

# ? Jul 10, 2021 05:42

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006; Can't post for 6 hours!

The Voice of Labor posted:

what would be a working definition for fascism? the best I got is the belief that bad things happening to people is good as long as they aren't happening to you. I think that's the string that unites the fasc

it's when capitalism fully drops the mask op

# ? Jul 10, 2021 05:58

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Raskolnikov38 posted:

the problem I have with that is that while the capitalists of Germany and Italy benefitted immensely from fascism, they never really had much political power. or maybe they just didn�t need to have any

yeah that's the key - the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie doesn't mean individual bourgeoisie have political power but that all politics runs to their benefit. marx writes in 18th brumaire about how the wealthy had to be stripped of governing power for their own good and insofar as a fascist government seizes the reins more tightly than a "democratic" one did it's to that same end

# ? Jul 10, 2021 08:40

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Ferrinus posted:

yeah that's the key - the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie doesn't mean individual bourgeoisie have political power but that all politics runs to their benefit. marx writes in 18th brumaire about how the wealthy had to be stripped of governing power for their own good and insofar as a fascist government seizes the reins more tightly than a "democratic" one did it's to that same end

Given that it's a bit hard to see why Dimitrovs definition holds true. What was it about the Italian and then German situations which meant reactionary financial capital needs take centre stage? Italian fascists, being in control of a very young country, were still driven by needs to forge a national identity and the Weimar state also seemed to be undergoing a real identity crisis at the time but what's the link to finance over other capitalist formations which would have a more direct association with the nation? That kind of seems to be drawing a connection between two modern things - finance and fascism - based only on their modernity.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 09:39

Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

Raskolnikov38 posted:

the problem I have with that is that while the capitalists of Germany and Italy benefitted immensely from fascism, they never really had much political power. or maybe they just didn�t need to have any

the later right, you could say the same in the us right now

formal polical power is different than power, the ability to say no to the war ministry during a war when you make steel is the expression of power

# ? Jul 10, 2021 12:08

Crusader: Apr 11, 2002

comedyblissoption posted:

it's when capitalism fully drops the mask op

# ? Jul 10, 2021 12:11

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Ardennes posted:

Anyway, like I said, fascism is a short term solution since you eventually run out of loot and slaves to feed into it but it doesn�t mean it is destined to instantly self-destruct.

"Eventually running out of loot & slaves to feed into it" stops at world conquest, so yeah there's a certain element of racing against time there but on the assumption that they can actually win then the issue of civil war and a succession crisis immediately crops up. No actually existing fascist state which wasn't destroyed in a foreign war outlasted the life of its dictator. The crisis of succession becomes a contest between cliques and will arrive at civil war, assuming the state organs haven't become so weak that they can no longer effectively repress liberal and left wing agitation for a new government.

Realistically you're never going to reach the "world conquest" stage because there isn't any possibility of a national economy maintaining an autarkic global war - but that's true of everybody. My point is, in its own ideological terms Fascism sets itself up for failure from multiple causes.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 12:53

Raine: Apr 30, 2013; ACCELERATIONIST SUPERDOOMER

shamelessly quoting an effortpost about fascism specifically designed to own my dumb rear end when i quoted umberto eco

splifyphus posted:

ugh I can't let this poo poo go.

this is an absolutely horrendous analysis of fascism that amounts to 'its everything i don't like'. eco writes cool novels but he's the kind of language idealist (read: gots the boogbrains) that can only exist in the academic bubble.

fascism is baked into the social relations of capital same as communism is, and one if the ever present possible outcomes of the 'enlightenment' project. whereas liberalism obfuscates social antagonism, fascism openly acknowledges it but displaces it onto an outgroup. this is because fascisms metaphysics are reliant on an organic holism - of both the individual body and the body socius. anybody who tells you you have some kind of 'ethnic essence' or w/e is implicitly fascist. confronted with a social order constituted by antagonism, you either accept that as the starting premise of your analysis (communism), you ignore it and pretend the social order doesn't exist beyond monadic individuals externally interacting through commodity exchange (liberalism) or you displace it onto an outsider bc your organic holism and essentialism precludes you from conceptualizing antagonism(s) internal to your own ethnic/national identity itself (fascism). there is, of course, no neutral position to take.

that shared essentialist heritage makes it very easy for libs and nazis to understand one another, or at least, for mobilized fascist militants to understand that liberals are cowards and hypocrites (they share much of the same conceptual infrastructure but liberals won't act on those assumptions except in private) and their ersatz 'democracies' are actually quite brittle, when it comes time to kick them out.

which they have and will continue to do. fascism is basically the big boogs way of responding to the (inevitable over long enough periods of time) collapse of bourgeois parliamentary regimes by swapping out their pocket politicians and using the toolbox of imperialism against their own internal populace (suitably sorted into arbitrary in/out identity boxes) in a way that tends to quickly take on a life of its own.

it is technically the '3rd politics' of modernity or w/e, but it's a mistake to view it as a positive political project. the organic unity it wants to return to is a retroactive illusion of the capitalist mop itself, not a concrete goal. in practice fascist 'anticapitalism' amounts to a slight reversal between the usual relations between the bigboog and their political dogs, cuz these dogs don't have leashes and can easily turn on the hand that feeds them, but it's just gonna be capitalism with the class structure transhistoricized as a quasi-caste thing with some state welfare programs to prevent the workers from ever quite having nothing left to lose. a hypothetical fascist state, left to itself (hypothetical because idk if you could ever have a militarized fascist state that wasn't hell bent on lebensraum at all costs, the other qua mortal enemy really holds this poo poo together) would almost certainly just tear itself to shreds.

so basically, the cmop is inherently unstable and prone to crises, these crises can generate worker revolts, and fascism is weaponized liberalism (as an alliance of big and petiboog interests against worker interests) trying to crush its erstwhile wage slaves both by direct extermination and by redirecting their outrage towards a foreign intruder.

it's extremely important to understand this link. because fascist assumptions are part of the ideological superstructure of the cmop they're loving everywhere (including Umberto Eco's flabby lil liberal brain), but there's a massive difference between the cryptofash - who generally really aren't aware of their brain worms and aren't particularly politically involved, and the actually self-conscious militant organized variety which just isn't that much of a thing unless there's a serious revolutionary crisis happening. (trump is decidedly the former, which is why he's funny not scary and all the hysteria about his protofash outlook misses the forest for the trees - fascist individuals are generated by the cmop same as liberals and leftists and fash power grabs in times of crises are basically inevitable without a militant leftist movement to fight against it - if you want it to go away you have to make capitalism go away too). this means you can very easily have elected proto/quasi/crypto-fascist governments in bourgeois parliamentary systems without them (overtly) trying to exterminate their other or take over the world simply because they aren't militarized. it's the threat of armed worker revolts that force that kind of organizational effort. fascists react defensively against history, liberals are just a passive outgrowth of their once-revolutionary economic machine, but it's the organized, militant left that (once) had the courage to take the leap into the unknown and make history. without us, they've already won, and that makes them lazy and even more paper tigery than they've always been.

it's the petiboog and the labor aristocrats (what liberals call 'the middle class') that really fall for all the organic holism claptrap, it flatters their self-image and appears to contain a guarantee that they can maintain their (perceived) superiority and privileges over their scary rebellious underworkers, insert ethnic/sexual minority here, or (*gasp* the horror) those filthy lumpen. most of the resurgence of electoral, premilitant fascism in the imperialist core since '08 is precisely the middle class desperately trying to hold onto its (rapidly eroding) status.

the bigboog dgaf about the dumb metaphysics (they perceive profit-interest as 'politically neutral' and literally anything outside that as 'political' [bad]) and are reluctant to bust out the fash death squads except as a last resort bc liberals are spineless opportunists who are very easy to predict and control, and nazis are, well, not. bg'll tolerate a fash purge for a while, but they mostly just wanna get back to pocket liberals and unlimited freedom of accumulation and exploitation without all the ethnic purity bullshit and death camps. the nazis were so successful at quashing worker militants and bribing/converting non-militants that what we consider the welfare state was actually adopted from the fascist model, bc it proved in practice that it was possible for the boog to effectively buy off the revolution in advance.

that rear end-garbage eco essay reads like 'omg this one time class struggle happened outside my OFFICE WINDOW and it was so scawwy'

# ? Jul 10, 2021 14:38

Diqnol: May 10, 2010

Raine posted:

shamelessly quoting an effortpost about fascism specifically designed to own my dumb rear end when i quoted umberto eco

This is a great post. I think I missed what "cmop" stands for tho.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 15:09

Raine: Apr 30, 2013; ACCELERATIONIST SUPERDOOMER

Cpt_Obvious posted:

This is a great post. I think I missed what "cmop" stands for tho.

caste mode of production maybe?

# ? Jul 10, 2021 15:21

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

ASAPRockySituation posted:

idk who first posted a clip of him here but Infrared is great. He is an accelerationist who is glad that Trump was president, though.

ive watched a couple of these and i dont think infrared is one guy, its a group

# ? Jul 10, 2021 15:36

MeatwadIsGod: Sep 30, 2004; Foretold by Gyromancy

Cpt_Obvious posted:

This is a great post. I think I missed what "cmop" stands for tho.

Presumably "capitalist mode of production"

# ? Jul 10, 2021 15:54

Diqnol: May 10, 2010

fart simpson posted:

ive watched a couple of these and i dont think infrared is one guy, its a group

it�s mostly Haz

# ? Jul 10, 2021 16:05

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006; Can't post for 6 hours!

the cold war dictatorships of latin america may have imploded but they were ultimately victories of class war

# ? Jul 10, 2021 17:24

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

namesake posted:

Given that it's a bit hard to see why Dimitrovs definition holds true. What was it about the Italian and then German situations which meant reactionary financial capital needs take centre stage? Italian fascists, being in control of a very young country, were still driven by needs to forge a national identity and the Weimar state also seemed to be undergoing a real identity crisis at the time but what's the link to finance over other capitalist formations which would have a more direct association with the nation? That kind of seems to be drawing a connection between two modern things - finance and fascism - based only on their modernity.

i think dmitrov's "dictatorship" should be read in the same way, in that financiers didn't suddenly start calling the shots so much as the people calling the shots were suddenly willing to use the most open and terroristic means to keep financiers fat and happy

# ? Jul 10, 2021 17:29

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

comedyblissoption posted:

the cold war dictatorships of latin america may have imploded but they were ultimately victories of class war

could you please elaborate? being Brazilian, I am curious to hear that take

# ? Jul 10, 2021 17:41

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

ASAPRockySituation posted:

idk who first posted a clip of him here but Infrared is great. He is an accelerationist who is glad that Trump was president, though.

thats not what accelerationism means

it just acknowledges that the forces of society and production are outpacing the ability of policymakers to make sense of them and trump was a sign that the neoliberal scientism and professional bureaucratic caste are not able to handle the changes .the excitement is purely out the fact that the established order was taken down by a tv show clown

# ? Jul 10, 2021 17:42

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

dead gay comedy forums posted:

could you please elaborate? being Brazilian, I am curious to hear that take

they forestalled potential populist revolutions in latin america in a time that they were happening all throughout the world, they prevented greater latin american solidarity and economic exchange with such movements, they kept the workers under heel to a much greater degree than otherwise, and they forged stronger relations with imperialist nations protecting the class structure that persist to this day

the dictatorships failed in the sense they were no longer nominal dictatorships, but they are a success by the metrics of class war

# ? Jul 10, 2021 17:48

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006; Can't post for 6 hours!

maybe it's helpful to think of the cuban revolution as a big giant warning klaxon to the capitalist class in the US and latin america that theyre going to have to start dropping the mask to get a lid on these situations

there's an obvious reason that the US and OAS conspired to isolate cuba diplomatically and economically

# ? Jul 10, 2021 17:52

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

indigi posted:

still kind of a weird thing to be excited about

the excitement is only about the opportunity to be in a position to make sense of the world where the establishment cannot. That's where the communist party historically came in to explain the world and win the workers to their side

i would be excited about it too if i was in haz's shoes

the alternative is socialism of fools (anitsemitism xenophobia etc) that will spring up if there is no sober marxist leninst analysis of the world spread in a common language of the times

# ? Jul 10, 2021 17:54

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

comedyblissoption posted:

they forestalled potential populist revolutions in latin america in a time that they were happening all throughout the world, they prevented greater latin american solidarity and economic exchange with such movements, they kept the workers under heel to a much greater degree than otherwise, and they forged stronger relations with imperialist nations protecting the class structure that persist to this day

the dictatorships failed in the sense they were no longer nominal dictatorships, but they are a success by the metrics of class war

yeah, right on. For a moment I thought you meant a victory of ours, which is why I was curious

edit: more in the sense of the dictatorships being overcome, at least during my first read

# ? Jul 10, 2021 18:04

emTme3: Nov 7, 2012; by Hand Knit

Raine posted:

caste mode of production maybe?

Capitalist mode of production. I have private acronyms for this poo poo apparently.

# ? Jul 10, 2021 18:52

Red and Black: Sep 5, 2011

https://twitter.com/tarikcyrilamar/status/1413813591258583041?s=21

Anyone a subscriber and want to break the paywall?

# ? Jul 10, 2021 19:19

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# ? May 23, 2024 14:10

The Voice of Labor: Apr 8, 2020

Raine posted:

shamelessly quoting an effortpost about fascism specifically designed to own my dumb rear end when i quoted umberto eco

this downplays the emergent fasc. writing them off as proto/crypto whatever ignores the fact that the only difference between a fascist proper and a cryptofascist is that the cypto hasn't yet had two of his fasc friends say "hey, you know, tonight we're going to burn down that apartment building on the other side of town and maybe stomp on a homeless person or two on the way back. it's gonna be a blast, you coming?"

there's no innocent, clownyness there, they may just be edgy libs but they're also an opportunistic death squad that are missing only their activation codes and marching orders. in 'merica they're already armed.

the outsider/foreign/undesirable thing is also problematic. the identity of the outsider is purely one of opportunism and convenience. the proudboys will gladly take on token minorities because it "proves they aren't racist". modern fascism has no problem with gays because the machismo ideology unsurprisingly is also deeply homoerotic. they have no problem with south/central american immigrants of legal status because they a:prove the system works, b: tend towards conservative beliefs and c: work as a wedge against others immigrating over . I mean, if you want say the outsider is always organized labor, maybe

# ? Jul 10, 2021 19:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

«‹›388 »

Ardennes posted:

Anime Bernie Bro posted:

Ardennes posted:

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The Voice of Labor posted:

Cpt_Obvious posted:

indigi posted:

The Voice of Labor posted:

Falstaff posted:

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

quote:

quote:

The Voice of Labor posted:

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Ferrinus posted:

Raskolnikov38 posted:

comedyblissoption posted:

Ardennes posted:

splifyphus posted:

Top City Homo posted:

Raine posted:

Cpt_Obvious posted:

ASAPRockySituation posted:

Cpt_Obvious posted:

fart simpson posted:

Top City Homo posted:

namesake posted:

comedyblissoption posted:

ASAPRockySituation posted:

Top City Homo posted:

dead gay comedy forums posted:

indigi posted:

comedyblissoption posted:

Raine posted:

Raine posted: