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GreatGreen posted:Nexus Mods no longer allows mod authors to permanently delete files: Yes, yes it is, and upon learning that this has happened, my first stop is the private Nexus mod author forums. 
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Jul 11, 2021 04:04
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kartikeya posted:Yes, yes it is, and upon learning that this has happened, my first stop is the private Nexus mod author forums. lol. Please post some highlights. Bet there's at least a few really good meltdowns going on over there. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 04:52
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GreatGreen posted:lol. Please post the highlights. Bet there's some really good meltdowns going on over there. It's a long, long thread, but here you go, some highlights: quote:I guess I'm stupid, because I just don't see how any part of this is the slightest bit beneficial to mod authors. We no longer have the creative control of our own projects to strike them off the website whenever we choose? Instead, regardless of our own feelings regarding our own content, we're forced to keep some lingering archive of them hanging around, so an already-entitled userbase can spam us with whiny private messages demanding that I "un-archive" some file that I no longer have the authority to just delete, despite the file being solely created by me? I would die a little if I had to recreate all the italics this poster used, just pretend it's every other word and you'll have the full experience. quote:I happen to agree with this. Regardless of the fact that the content is hosted here does not give Nexus Mods the right to any kind of ownership of that content, including but not limited to: Allowing the mod author the right to remove their mods at will and without any kind of explanation necessary; Allowing the mod author to remove older versions that are problematic without any explanation necessary; Allowing the mod author to do what they want with what is essentially their intellectual property WITHOUT ANY EXPLANATION WHATSOEVER. quote:2 years ago, I've asked a question about vortex modpacks, if there will be an opt-out option (some of us don't want our mods to be in "Collections", sorry, but that's the truth). The king has arrived: Arthmoor posted:This is a complete crock of s*** that was done with the sole intention of appeasing the Wabbajack community so that they can continue to be the leeches they have always been. If this was at all beneficial to mod authors, you'd have come to us openly to discuss it and hash out the details. Instead, it's more like screw the people who made this site what it is today. One weird trick, Nexus admins hate it: quote:There's a simple solution Arthmoor again posted:No, I don't think I'm being needlessly hostile when it's crystal clear they no longer have any regard for my distribution rights, in addition to various aspects of UK law when it comes to the deletion of data. I guess they'd prefer to process a stack of DMCA claims instead? Cause maybe that's what it's going to take to make them realize that this was a complete clusterfuck of a decision on their part. quote:Arthmoor also makes a good point about the right to have your personal data deleted under UK law. My mods are personal to me, they have my email, my username, possibly my real name, embedded in them. I have the right to submit a request to have that data removed from Nexus servers, surely? Since you can't remove that data without either removing or modifying the mod, and irrc you don't have the right to modify my work, you'd need to remove the mod. The modpack understander has logged on: Arthmoor is a knower of things posted:Made? No, but I've used plenty of them for other games with Workshop support where updates have no material impact on the collection at all. quote:No no no, clearly you're not understanding how it works in their minds...the mod author's job is to create the content, bend over and get screwed. The collection "author's" job is to cram a bunch of other people's work together, give no F's if it's broken, blame the mod author for the broken mess, and whine to Nexus about dead links breaking it even more forcing the mod authors to put up with old dead content all so that the collection "author" can be freaking LAZY. Italics poster returns, I'm still not formatting this posted:Yes, indeed, I am willfully ignoring the ToS, because I think people are worth more than some dismissive legalese jargon to justify treating them like dirt. I'm weird like that. quote:Bingo. Gotta castrate any possible attempts at mod author resistance before putting the screws to us dirty peasants! I have a funny feeling that this isn't going to be the case at all: quote:I have a funny feeling the flow of new mods/mod updates on the Nexus will soon take a drastic nosedive. Hope it was worth it for them. Italics guy again not today satan posted:It's telling that the arguments I'm seeing in favor of this trash are: still italics dude, holy poo poo lol posted:Right, right, and those Vietnamese kids working in my lead-paint sweatshop signed a document affording them the privilege of eating food once a day, and it also happened to include a provision saying that they have no human rights, and are, in fact, not even people at all! That means I'm a good person, my actions are 100% ethical, and it's their fault for not combing over the legal jargon with an accredited attorney before they signed, the stupid pillocks! (This is sarcasm.) Arthmoor is still here posted:That's your solution? Let the modpack leeches get paid for their efforts but screw all the mod authors whose work they're leeching to even HAVE a list? No thanks. That's a reddit level suggestion. The subject of people who create popular modlists having patreons returns: italics dude isn't having it posted:Why on earth would people compiling lists of mods (that they didn't make) deserve to make more money than the people that actually dump their time and energy into creating the content in the first place? Because they have to field stupid user complaints? Mod authors already do that, and there's that little fact that we do all the actual work in the first place. That was the end of page 13, there are 179 pages in this thread.
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Jul 11, 2021 05:37
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That is fantastic. Also, gently caress those entitled assholes. "But how will I be able to throw a tantrum and delete my mod from the internet if some random person decides to download it and mod my mod for their own use without making sure everybody on the internet knows it was MY MOD first? Also, I don't want my mod included in a pack with all those unwashed other mods. My mod is special and deserves unique consideration. I almost sued Bethesda because they didn't provide specifically me with a program that disables all other mods if mine is installed but I decided it wasn't worth my time." Like seriously, gently caress every single one of them. I made a mod for Oblivion once. Do you know what I would have done if somebody else downloaded it, removed my name from the mod, then included it in their larger mod? Not a goddamn thing other than been happy because I would have learned that my contribution to the community helped somebody. These people act like their lovely little Skyrim texture res increase or +7,000,000 damage sword (or more realistically, Playable Triceratops Race But With Three Tits and Dicks For Arms) mods are their doctoral thesis projects upon which they will catapult themselves into a glorious video game career where they will work alongside and be best friends with Todd Howard himself in a shared high rise corner office. Got a link to that thread? GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 06:18
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Every single one of those people, especially ol Arty, is desperately trying to hold on to their little slice of (false) authority, their fiefdoms. They don't have anything else, this is it. It's why they react exactly as we all expect, and why they retreat to these private enclaves on the internet to nod at each other and pat each other on the back. I wish they were unique about it, or there was something novel to say or see, but nah. Just the same poo poo, same characters, same reactions.
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Jul 11, 2021 06:57
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It's vaguely hilarious that the people behind Nexus didn't predict any of this fallout too. Have you ever read the comments on your own website?
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Jul 11, 2021 07:16
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They fully predicted it but why would they care? They've tried appeasing the Arthmoors before and it's always been to their detriment.
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Jul 11, 2021 08:21
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My favorite kind of this whining is "terms of service denialism" like they somehow think a website can't set the terms for content it hosts. Lol.
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Jul 11, 2021 10:54
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On the inverse side of things, all of these mod author tantrums have inspired several "Give a shout out to these cool and good mod authors who aren't flaming donkey assholes." threads on r/skyrimmods. And its really cool to see the community rallying around common sense as opposed to screeching drama mongers.
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Jul 11, 2021 11:41
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My favorite thing about Arthmoor is that his one important mod (Unofficial Patch) was done by a team. Everything he's done on his own is worthless.
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Jul 11, 2021 16:12
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Rainbow Knight posted:My favorite thing about Arthmoor is that his one important mod (Unofficial Patch) was done by a team. Everything he's done on his own is worthless. He also tried to put USSEP in a proprietary .exe file as part of his original tantrum over Wabbajack and was told to gently caress off by both Nexus and his own team who actually work on the patch.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:04
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Skwirl posted:It's vaguely hilarious that the people behind Nexus didn't predict any of this fallout too. Have you ever read the comments on your own website? The truth is that these mod authors aren't needed, the community doesn't need Artmoor or italicized person or the other people screaming about their values or whatever. It has always been, and will continue to be, about the end-users. Artmoor is nobody if players didn't download his mods and give him a platform by him being able to point to 'total number of downloads' on the Nexus. This is true for any mod author that cares about this stupid garbage. If Artmoor stops posting mods nobody will give a hot gently caress and someone else will come around and take their place. But then Arty won't have his fiefdom, so he will never ever give it up. Same for the others. They will scream up and down, but will stay put because what are they going to do, start a competing Nexus where players aren't the most important? Please. The have zero, absolutely zero authority within the community because the players don't care. If there isn't a mod then there isn't a mod, or someone who is less of an rear end in a top hat will come along and make it, or one of those players will become a modder themselves and make the mod. Art adds nothing besides mockery and distain for himself. We can talk EULAs, law, precedents, courts, all the nitty gritty specifics but overall poo poo matters not. Players don't have time for all of that, they just wanna "hahaha go brrrrr" with content and they will.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:31
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On the one hand mod authors flipping out and deleting everything is asinine, hilarious and frustrating. On the other hand not being able to delete stuff you have personally uploaded is bullshit for any number of reasons. The comparison to GitHub is pretty apt but not in the way he is intending. Authors should be free to be able to delete and flip out at their hearts content; however what this is stupidly trying to solve is that anybody should be able to fork (copy) a mod that has been submitted to the public domain, this last part is the key and what Nexus has fought against for years (more for market share I suspect). It's pretty funny that they are now doing a 180, will be interesting to see if this fractures three community or if they do yet another 180 and roll it back. As a mod author with some very popular mods I should be able to delete poo poo if I want (I don't), but people should also be able to just copy my poo poo, if they make it better, great! If they start adding titties everywhere, well that's weird but it doesn't impact me so whatever. Modders rights (before this) has always been the dumbest loving thing. I'll be honest I didn't read any of the full press release so maybe I don't have the right impression but not being able to delete stuff tied to your accounts is a huge issue imo.
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Jul 11, 2021 19:15
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I'm pretty sure the only thing that'll cause the Arthmoors to flip out more than modpacks is everybody forking their work.
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Jul 11, 2021 19:46
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Rainbow Knight posted:My favorite thing about Arthmoor is that his one important mod (Unofficial Patch) was done by a team. Everything he's done on his own is worthless. I wouldn't go quite this far (there are a fair few of his mods I consider, well, essential is pushing it but I'd miss them if I weren't using them), but his sense of self-importance is not backed up by his actual contributions. Still I will never need to actually interact with the dude so whatevs. I actually even get why people are upset by this (though Nexus still making it possible to hide your stuff from 99.99999999999% of their userbase and just insisting on a technical concession to 'not breaking our new collection thing' makes this all super super dumb). Personally I think the way you keep absolute control over your creation is not releasing it into the wild in the first place but I guess there are other viewpoints. I guess.
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Jul 11, 2021 20:32
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Cynic Jester posted:I'm pretty sure the only thing that'll cause the Arthmoors to flip out more than modpacks is everybody forking their work. The level of salt this would generate could supply the entire world with some to spare. This is the guy who threw a fit because someone made a mod that required Open Cities as a master, with the only change being it removed those stupid Oblivion Gates. And fit is...an understatement. IIRC, he also nuked the Unofficial Patch briefly because for some reason he was real mad about it being used in VR. This is the link to the thread, and I'm sure there are others where they're throwing a tantrum. You need access to the mod authors forum though.
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Jul 11, 2021 21:14
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These mod authors seem to really dislike that people want to/try to use their mods which really makes you wonder sometimes why they are even bothering putting themselves out in the community if they hate everyone so much.
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Jul 11, 2021 22:05
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Dameius posted:These mod authors seem to really dislike that people want to/try to use their mods which really makes you wonder sometimes why they are even bothering putting themselves out in the community if they hate everyone so much. There's a certain solipsistic mindset that when you modify a game to make it conform to your standards that thereby means that your standards are the only standards that matter, so when people then take your modifications and modify them further to meet their standards it is the ultimate insult to your worldview where you are the center of the universe and your final word on the game is law.
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Jul 11, 2021 22:09
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I wish mods were just distributed via torrents  That way, none of this BS would've even happened. Both sides of the issue would've been fixed: No one would feel entitled to bitch about removing torrents, and what is effectively a 3rd party file hosting site wouldn't be able to implement draconian DL speed limits and pay for convenience policies to hurt end users. Plus, there are already a lot of open source tools that are used for automatically downloading torrents that could've been leveraged by modlists. By not doing this, I think the community is just shooting itself in the foot.
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Jul 11, 2021 22:10
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The Gadfly posted:I wish mods were just distributed via torrents Part of the issue is serious game modding became really popular before torrents even existed, Nexus is way different than like downloading off of PlanetMorrowind back in the day, but it's an evolution of the system, not a completely different one.
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Jul 11, 2021 22:31
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The TES modding community has been around longer than p2p file sharing? drat, that's ancient.
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Jul 11, 2021 22:49
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Downloading a bunch of mods (a lot of which are commonly small text files or other changes in kilobytes) off of a torrent client seems pretty messy - I guess you could make it work with something like a single torrent for everything on nexus in a given day and then you pick and choose which specific files you want. Honestly, the wide variety of sizes and formats involved makes the direct download system Nexus uses appropriate except for giant texture packs or something.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:02
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The Gadfly posted:The TES modding community has been around longer than p2p file sharing? drat, that's ancient. Bittorrent started in 2005, Morrowind came out in 2002
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Jul 11, 2021 23:05
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Back in the Oblivion and FO3 days there were mods and also a lot of large modpacks that were distributed via torrent. I think the music & movie industry's campaigns to get the big torrent sites closed down killed that off.nine-gear crow posted:There's a certain solipsistic mindset that when you modify a game to make it conform to your standards that thereby means that your standards are the only standards that matter, so when people then take your modifications and modify them further to meet their standards it is the ultimate insult to your worldview where you are the center of the universe and your final word on the game is law.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:19
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Something really worth noting is that the Skyrim mod author community is... well, I don't know enough about enough modding scenes to say "anomalous" but it doesn't seem like the norm. I've been doing Stardew Valley and Stellaris modding and interacting with other authors and I've never seen anything like the levels of prima donna bullshit that happens in the Nexus mod author forum. So it doesn't really have to be this way.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:30
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GunnerJ posted:Something really worth noting is that the Skyrim mod author community is... well, I don't know enough about enough modding scenes to say "anomalous" but it doesn't seem like the norm. I've been doing Stardew Valley and Stellaris modding and interacting with other authors and I've never seen anything like the levels of prima donna bullshit that happens in the Nexus mod author forum. So it doesn't really have to be this way. I think part of it is the Skyrim modding community is just so much more vast than pretty much any other one. So the odds of getting a handful of people that both produce sought after content, and are huge assholes, is much higher.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:35
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KakerMix posted:The truth is that these mod authors aren't needed, the community doesn't need Artmoor or italicized person or the other people screaming about their values or whatever. Thank you for making this post for me so I didn't have to  Has anyone ever made the idea clear to these morons that 'hey, even if you delete/hide your mod, it's already out in the wild and sane people will just reshare/edit/remake it on their own because nobody gives a gently caress about what you or what you think'? I'm so glad we're finally moving past the pointless kowtowing because honestly these petty assholes should be happy to be known for anything in the first place.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:47
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I am, without a shred of hesitation, placing the blame for the lovely state of the skyrim modding community on Arthmoor and his crew.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:48
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GunnerJ posted:Something really worth noting is that the Skyrim mod author community is... well, I don't know enough about enough modding scenes to say "anomalous" but it doesn't seem like the norm. I've been doing Stardew Valley and Stellaris modding and interacting with other authors and I've never seen anything like the levels of prima donna bullshit that happens in the Nexus mod author forum. So it doesn't really have to be this way. Eh, I think oblivion was the same way it's just gaming and modding in general have become insanely more popular since those games released so it's amplified more for Skyrim.
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Jul 12, 2021 00:02
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Agents are GO! posted:I am, without a shred of hesitation, placing the blame for the lovely state of the skyrim modding community on Arthmoor and his crew. He's definitely been an outspoken vocal contributor to a lot of the bullshit at least..
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Jul 12, 2021 00:03
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I blame the Nexus for catering to these guys earlier on though, I suppose to make sure they stayed 'Nexus'. Now though Nexus is big enough on its own it doesn't need to cater anymore.
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Jul 12, 2021 00:07
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Skwirl posted:Bittorrent started in 2005, Morrowind came out in 2002 Wikipedia tells me BitTorrent's initial release was in 2001. I still remember using eMule to download music in 2003-04, though. Not sure when I started torrenting. Anybody have Wrye's parlour vs. cathedral post handy? (I'm always staggered when people say they're parlour-type modders.  )
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Jul 12, 2021 01:36
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Agents are GO! posted:I am, without a shred of hesitation, placing the blame for the lovely state of the skyrim modding community on Arthmoor and his crew. In all seriousness, I'm in full agreement with that. And it is worth saying that they're the small (insanely) vocal minority, most modders on Nexus are genuinely dedicated people who make something they enjoy and want to share it with other people, and that's basically the end all be all. Or they're one time folks who randomly threw something together to fix something that annoyed them (me), or wanted to paint textures, or whatever. But Arthmoor has been around for ages and is absurdly influential since he's the face of the unofficial patch team, and I think what an absolute assbucket he is wasn't terribly evident outside of people directly interacting with him until much later, and he really does act as the voice of authority on the mod author forums. And the other folks who do this are like...some of them have made a lot of very popular mods too, but some are like that one person who got a well known Youtube reviewer's video taken down because they dared to monetize a video in which they reviewed their mod and said it was good, which she saw as making a profit off of her hard work. What was her hard work? IIRC, it was taking other people's mods and putting the stuff they made in a shop or something. Literally that. She put a book in the game that you had to read to make sure you knew it was bad to steal her stuff. Anyone on the mod author board who thought that was a poo poo move was dogpiled by everyone else there, and the thread was 100+ pages long.
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Jul 12, 2021 02:54
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nine-gear crow posted:He also tried to put USSEP in a proprietary .exe file as part of his original tantrum over Wabbajack and was told to gently caress off by both Nexus and his own team who actually work on the patch. Also the Wabbajack crew had that not do poo poo before the day was even over if I remember right. It could download the exe and extract the needed files from it like any other archive after a small update. There's also been 1 guy who got all his mods removed and then complained about how not having anything on the Nexus meant he couldn't be in the special 1000+ downloads forum. The meltdowns are great.
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Jul 12, 2021 02:57
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Vavrek posted:Wikipedia tells me BitTorrent's initial release was in 2001. Ah, I saw this paragraph in the google preview when I searched "first torrent" quote:In 2005, first Vuze and then the BitTorrent client introduced distributed tracking using distributed hash tables which allowed clients to exchange data on swarms directly without the need for a torrent file. In 2006, peer exchange functionality was added allowing clients to add peers based on the data found on connected nodes. It did take a while for torrents to take off in general. I definitely started heavily modding Morrowind well before I knew torrents existed.
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Jul 12, 2021 03:01
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GunnerJ posted:Something really worth noting is that the Skyrim mod author community is... well, I don't know enough about enough modding scenes to say "anomalous" but it doesn't seem like the norm. I've been doing Stardew Valley and Stellaris modding and interacting with other authors and I've never seen anything like the levels of prima donna bullshit that happens in the Nexus mod author forum. So it doesn't really have to be this way. The good old days of early Minecraft modding were even worse, if you'll believe it. The mere concept of modpacks was enough to make dozens of manchildren have epic, shrieking meltdowns that shook the entire community with their rage.
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Jul 12, 2021 04:56
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The Shortest Path posted:The good old days of early Minecraft modding were even worse, if you'll believe it. The mere concept of modpacks was enough to make dozens of manchildren have epic, shrieking meltdowns that shook the entire community with their rage. Boy howdy. It's great that was forced out, cause yeah man that poo poo sucked.
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Jul 12, 2021 05:36
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I recall there being one where a mod author made invincible bees that attacked you if you used their mod in a modpack.
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Jul 12, 2021 07:33
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Leal posted:I recall there being one where a mod author made invincible bees that attacked you if you used their mod in a modpack. There's infamously a mod for Doom by goon The Kins (aka Kinsie) that swarms you with invincible tiny golden skeletons if you mix it with popular Doom mod Brutal Doom. This wasn't a modpack opposition thing, more that Brutal Doom was taking over a lot of the Doom modding community at the time and Kinsie/a lot of other modders were very frustrated about people asking if their mods were compatible with Brutal Doom and complaining if it wasn't compatible. (Actually modding Doom, since its essential data structure is from 1994, is quite involved and there's a lot of compatibility problems/weird hacks that make SKSE look positively gentle.)
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Jul 12, 2021 07:41
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The Shortest Path posted:The good old days of early Minecraft modding were even worse, if you'll believe it. The mere concept of modpacks was enough to make dozens of manchildren have epic, shrieking meltdowns that shook the entire community with their rage. I have a vague memory of a lot of minecraft mods being behind those awful click through ads and god forbid if anyone put them somewhere less annoying.
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Jul 12, 2021 08:24
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