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Do you prefer the extended summer thread format? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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126 | 44.21% |
| No |
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39 | 13.68% |
| I'm Scottish |
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120 | 42.11% |
| Total: | 285 votes | ||
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I'm not sure that the past... entirety of my life has done anything to disabuse me of the idea that people are stupid.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:40
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learnincurve posted:They used covid laws to raid an art building in an attempt to dismantle a sculpture. lmao you are actually delusional what the christ
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Jul 12, 2021 16:41
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learnincurve posted:They used covid laws to raid an art building in an attempt to dismantle a sculpture. This is one step away from full Covid truther/antivaxxer poo poo.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:42
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I’m not the one trusting the Tories here.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:42
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No, but if you missed it we're still in a pandemic, one in which the Torys are giving everyone free reign from Monday
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Jul 12, 2021 16:43
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learnincurve posted:I’m not the one trusting the Tories here. My dude I don't think anyone here is trusting the people trying to micromanage an epidemic.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:43
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learnincurve posted:I’m not the one trusting the Tories here. No, you're the one who confuses not being a selfish oval office with "trusting the Tories". I can see you inherited yer auld da's brains.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:44
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Personally I hope England are banned from footballing for the next ten years.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:44
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Yeah I'm not sure if you're phrasing yourself badly here? It does come off a bit 'anti-lockdown'. I think we can all agree that the government will inevitably be keeping a lot of the powers they've got now and that's bad (police will be using COVID as an excuse for awful poo poo for a looong time), but rules and restrictions are sensible and needed. It's smart to have people require evidence of a negative test. It's also smart, however, to bypass those checks if you yourself know you have met all the requirements and not doing so would make you miss the game.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:46
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forkboy84 posted:No, you're the one who confuses not being a selfish oval office with "trusting the Tories". There were 75 fines over the whole of covid for breaking laws and all of them are being appealed. Selfish people were always going to be selfish and face no consequences. Giving the police more powers to bully and harass is never the solution to anything.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:46
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Crankit posted:Personally I hope England are banned from footballing for the next ten years. Nah let the boys play, just don't let anyone watch.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:47
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learnincurve posted:There were 75 fines over the whole of covid for breaking laws and all of them are being appealed. Selfish people were always going to be selfish and face no consequences. Giving the police more powers to bully and harass is never the solution to anything. Can you explain how that makes what your dad did ok then? There's no real chance of him being caught or fined so does it really matter? Jakabite posted:It's smart to have people require evidence of a negative test. It's also smart, however, to bypass those checks if you yourself know you have met all the requirements and not doing so would make you miss the game. Not really
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Jul 12, 2021 16:49
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learnincurve posted:There were 75 fines over the whole of covid for breaking laws and all of them are being appealed. Selfish people were always going to be selfish and face no consequences. Giving the police more powers to bully and harass is never the solution to anything. Barging your way through people just trying to check that you dont have a pandemic causing disease isnt the solution to anything either.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:49
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gently caress off with this shite I have repeatedly not defended my dad or anyone who pushed through
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Jul 12, 2021 16:50
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Im imagining LC's dad at an airport. Smashing their way through airport security because they left it to the last minute and dont want to wait to get their passport checked.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:51
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No but you're defending the actions of every person who bypassed the process that was in place to ensure the event was safe as possible
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Jul 12, 2021 16:51
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Jakabite posted:It's also smart, however, to bypass those checks if you yourself know you have met all the requirements and not doing so would make you miss the game. Disagree with that last part, because that's how you get stampedes, make it impossible for the people who are supposed to do crowd control to know who has and hasn't met the requirements, and it's the start of a football game, not the boat to get off Dunkirk.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:51
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Pushing through is definitely dumb cos it's inflicting violence on someone, but if the barrier's already gone, you've got a negative test, and you can just wander on through then I literally don't see the harm in doing that. Can anyone tell me what negative effect that will have?
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Jul 12, 2021 16:52
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Looke posted:No but you're defending the actions of every person who bypassed the process that was in place to ensure the event was safe as possible No I wasn’t, I was explaining that it was lax security and poor organisation at Wembley that allowed this.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:54
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No more comical photoshoots. https://twitter.com/davieclegg/status/1414613917330984969
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Jul 12, 2021 16:55
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CyberPingu posted:Im imagining LC's dad at an airport. Smashing their way through airport security because they left it to the last minute and dont want to wait to get their passport checked. I mean, if your looking for an example of effective and important safety procedures i dunno if post 9/11 airport security is what your looking for.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:55
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Jakabite posted:Pushing through is definitely dumb cos it's inflicting violence on someone This is what initially triggered the massive fights that broke out correct? It's hard to not feel somebody pushing you into others or a structure as intending to crush you.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:57
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Two things can be true simultaneously: 1. A small minority of fans were stupid and dangerous 2. The security and admission process was not set up well enough to deal with the blindingly obvious consequences of having England in an international final, on home ground, after a year of lockdown. (This is not a defense for the dangerous fans, but I feel it was a very predictable situation they could have been more prepared for) Also someone asked re covid treatment still just being ventilator and hope - to some extent once someone gets that sick it is, but there are other factors. Dexamethasone is the obvious one. But also smaller things like knowing best timing for proning, knowing better how to manage oxygen saturations and clearing secretions etc have also improved since this time last year just through familiarity.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:58
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Can someone really be this naive 
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Jul 12, 2021 17:06
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I think polly toynbee can certainly write an article that stupid whether she believes it or not.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:08
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as a broader point, "actually it's the moral responsibility of the powers that be to anticipate and prevent foreseeable riots and crushes, anything less is professional negligence in allowing an insane mass to coalesce to hurt itself and others" is a fascinating inversion for many decades the political left usually embraced a theory of rational crowd psychology - that riots express some deep-seated social relation being protested, in some set of signs/symbols understood by the rioters. Language of the unheard etc. E. P. Thompson's English Crowd, that kind of thing it is remarkable that this seems to be flipping aisles slowly. Something something the contemporary left's inclination to cast effective protest in the form of appeals to neoliberal institutions which speak regulations and technocracy? I dunno, I'm not a collective behaviour sociologist
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Jul 12, 2021 17:08
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Apparently the important bit in COVID safety isn't actually getting vaccinated or tested, but making sure the overworked security theatre steward sees that you have done so and gives you a nod and a pat on the back. Who knew?
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Jul 12, 2021 17:10
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Apparently the important bit in COVID safety isn't actually getting vaccinated or tested, but making sure the overworked security theatre steward sees that you have done so and gives you a nod and a pat on the back. Who knew? Ok your right, let’s just allow anyone to go in and just act on good faith that people have tested themselves/been vaccinated
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Jul 12, 2021 17:12
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If you'd wanted to keep your benefit money you should have donated more of it to the tory party
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Jul 12, 2021 17:12
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Apparently the important bit in COVID safety isn't actually getting vaccinated or tested, but making sure the overworked security theatre steward sees that you have done so and gives you a nod and a pat on the back. Who knew? It's not the important bit in covid safety, it's the important bit of crowd management.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:12
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TACD posted:This was way back in 2008 or so but are there really fewer cops around during a match now, especially one so obviously likely to draw trouble as this? There aren't fewer cops around but I guess Wembley events have been mostly previously very corporate placid events compared to most fixtures, even cup finals and playoffs. In fact most fixtures in West London, I don't remember any trouble at all. When United were beaten by Barcelona in 2011 there was no trouble at all and the London riots were like a month later. And even if there is violence, the police are less likely to intervene and make things worse (like they do at protests).
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Jul 12, 2021 17:16
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Looke posted:Ok your right, let’s just allow anyone to go in and just act on good faith that people have tested themselves/been vaccinated If the organisers of the event are so incompetent that the rules are breaking down around them, you are under no obligation to wait there nicely and hope they remember your good behaviour when you've obeyed the requirements yourself.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:17
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Nothingtoseehere posted:If the organisers of the event are so incompetent that the rules are breaking down around them, you are under no obligation to wait there nicely and hope they remember your good behaviour when you've obeyed the requirements yourself. Apparently these people got kicked in the head for "obeying these requirements" yet forging ahead, so I think you'd have been better off staying in line. Nothing mattered until the end of the game anyhow.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:22
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We may have lost the football but my god there's some loving world-class contenders in the Weird Take Championship being displayed ITT.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:22
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Looke posted:Ok your right, let’s just allow anyone to go in and just act on good faith that people have tested themselves/been vaccinated Literally no one's saying that.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:26
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Jakabite posted:Literally no one's saying that. Actually they are Nothingtoseehere posted:If the organisers of the event are so incompetent that the rules are breaking down around them, you are under no obligation to wait there nicely and hope they remember your good behaviour when you've obeyed the requirements yourself.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:28
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CyberPingu posted:Actually they are Except that isn't what they said? We're talking about the actions of the fans, not what the rules should or shouldn't be. There's a difference between 'there should be no rules' and 'if the rules have broken down and you have met your end of the bargain in terms of testing and vaxxing, to the point that the only thing you're not doing is proving that to the powers that be, there's nothing wrong with no longer following the rules'.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:34
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CyberPingu posted:Actually they are That does not mean what you think it means. Are you a gimmick?
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Jul 12, 2021 17:34
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The conditions are providing evidence of vax/test What don’t you understand, lol
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Jul 12, 2021 17:36
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Ok yeah I think I misread that.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:37
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