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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Ender Lilies is exactly what i was thinking of lol I think ender lilies is really really good - maybe not HK level good - but if you like metroidvanias, you will enjoy ender lilies.
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Jul 11, 2021 04:41
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bike tory posted:Yeah hollow knight doesn't innovate much at all, it just does everything very well I know that's just one thing, but honestly even extremely innovative games are usually just mixing up things that have been done before in new ways.
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Jul 11, 2021 06:12
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Martman posted:I disagree. The way soul works, between relying on you hitting enemies and also being used both for offensive magic and healing, is really unusual as far as I know. As a result all the boss designs (or all the combat really), which are extremely well tailored to the combat mechanics, feel very unique to the game. It's a special meter. It might be novel for a metroidvania but it's extremely common in fighting games and arpgs
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Jul 11, 2021 08:25
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Martman posted:just mixing up things that have been done before in new ways. I think that's an accurate description of hollow knight, and why I'm not too stressed about a game that references bloodborne, hollow knight, Metroidvania etc.
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Jul 11, 2021 08:49
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multijoe posted:It's a special meter. It might be novel for a metroidvania but it's extremely common in fighting games and arpgs Yes but have you considered that fighting games using a joystick to represent 4 directions is just an adaptation of the mechanics of Asteroid? Makes you think!
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Jul 11, 2021 08:56
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Ender Lilies is exactly what i was thinking of lol I really enjoy the combat in Ender Lillies especially against the bosses and the only area where the level design was frustrating was Verboten Domain. My Ender Lillies verdict: Great. Scratched the Hollow Knight itch while it lasted.
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Jul 11, 2021 09:20
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multijoe posted:It's a special meter. It might be novel for a metroidvania but it's extremely common in fighting games and arpgs
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Jul 11, 2021 09:22
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Martman posted:What do you think of as a "new" game mechanic in a recent game? Uh, tempo based movement in Crypt of the Necrodancer? But I didn't say there's anything wrong with it, and there certainly isn't. As you say, good games are mostly just reshuffling pre-existing concepts into a novel configuration, which is exactly what Hollow Knight does.
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Jul 11, 2021 09:40
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I was thinking of trying Blasphemous next, had a go when it came out but I bounced off it. what's the verdict on it?
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Jul 11, 2021 10:19
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Movement is clunky but not necessarily in a bad way, platforming is eh, boss fights are real cool, aesthetics/atmosphere are incredible. Very happy with it.
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Jul 11, 2021 10:23
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multijoe posted:Uh, tempo based movement in Crypt of the Necrodancer?
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Jul 11, 2021 10:45
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Martman posted:Timing your inputs? Wow, lifted wholesale from rhythm games. It is very easy to be stupidly reductive. What's your point? Hollow Knight is a great platformer, it doesn't need to be gassed up by pretending it reinvented the wheel by having a special meter
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Jul 11, 2021 10:51
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multijoe posted:What's your point? Hollow Knight is a great platformer, it doesn't need to be gassed up by pretending it reinvented the wheel by having a special meter And like, to be fair, sure you may feel Crypt of the Necrodancer specifically is more innovative. Yes, the game that literally invented a new genre of game is obviously innovative. Is that the bar for being considered original? Martman fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 11:15
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I'm stuck in a dark corner of the Deepnest. I haven't seen a bench in half an hour, I'm down to one health, I've run out of soul. I'm freaking out. I have to keep going, and that means I have to kill some poo poo without making any mistakes to have a chance at healing again. I think to myself "lol this is exactly like Street Fighter"
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Jul 11, 2021 11:40
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It's not reductive to say that the SOUL mechanic isn't new or innovative, lots of games have you recharge your mana (or whatever they call the resource for your special abilities) by attacking. In Hollow Knight it works really well with the other elements of the game and I think it adds to a fairly unique combat system overall. And on second thought I guess that's valid to consider as innovation.
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Jul 11, 2021 11:53
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Your Brain on Hugs posted:I was thinking of trying Blasphemous next, had a go when it came out but I bounced off it. what's the verdict on it? Blasphemous is good but has a pretty punishing start and at release was much buggier and more punishing. Definitely worth a play.
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Jul 11, 2021 13:36
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i've really been enjoying ender lilies a lot, it has a decent bit of a gba castlevania vibe to it and is overall just really solid to play. plus the atmosphere is nice. 
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Jul 11, 2021 19:01
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Of all the bosses that have repeatedly stone-walled me in Hollow Knight, the Enraged Guardian in Crystal Peak has been the one that I've made the least progress with. Other bosses, I can survive a little longer, or get to another phase of combat before getting stomped, but E.G. is just crushing me flat each time.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:34
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Don’t overthink it, just stack health and bum-rush him. If you’re about to get hit by a beam walk into him instead, since it only does one mask instead of two.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:38
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multijoe posted:You can't really rip on a game for copying Hollow Knight when Hollow Knight ripped so much off of Dark Souls itself Well, I dunno, hollow knight’s visual aesthetic and being a 2D platformer pretty huge departures from Dark Souls, whereas Crowsworn is the exact same type of game in the exact same visual style
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Jul 12, 2021 18:47
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Bust Rodd posted:Well, I dunno, hollow knight’s visual aesthetic and being a 2D platformer pretty huge departures from Dark Souls, whereas Crowsworn is the exact same type of game in the exact same visual style The visual aesthetic of hollow knight is almost exactly what you'd get if you converted dark souls into 2D then took away the castle levels. The NPCs and enemies/bosses are different and unique to hollow knight though!
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Jul 12, 2021 20:54
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The premise and story presentation is basically just an alt-universe fanfic of Dark Souls too, it has everything from a ruined old kingdom filled with hollows to collecting the lord souls to open up the seal on the final boss to an archaelogical plot pieced together from menu descriptions and quirky and obtuse NPCs doing roundabout world building through their dialogue. They manage to make it work as its own thing but it really wears its inspirations on its sleeve
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Jul 12, 2021 21:51
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The Zombie Guy posted:Of all the bosses that have repeatedly stone-walled me in Hollow Knight, the Enraged Guardian in Crystal Peak has been the one that I've made the least progress with. Other bosses, I can survive a little longer, or get to another phase of combat before getting stomped, but E.G. is just crushing me flat each time. In my experience the best strategy is to have the Shade cloak and to just dash behind him when he's beaming and unload on his back. If you don't have that then jump/regular dash will probably work although your window of attack will be reduced. Since you can't downthrust on his head, trying to stay close when he jumps or screams gives you good opportunities to get hits in. Your Brain on Hugs posted:I was thinking of trying Blasphemous next, had a go when it came out but I bounced off it. what's the verdict on it? I did Blasphemous before Hollow Knight. It's shorter and a lot easier (in my opinion, due to several factors including the combat) but still a very good game. They've improved a lot of things since launch including inputs and the map system and added some new content since then. If you already have it I'd say try it again.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:39
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I just found out that Ari Gibson (Team Cherry's Art Guy) co-directed The Cat Piano, and cites Angel's Egg as one of his artistic inspirations. Hollow Knight's aesthetic makes perfect sense now.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:16
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Not saying HK isn't influenced a lot by Dark Souls, but Dark Souls itself is obviously influenced by old-school games like Super Metroid in the foreboding atmosphere, old/dead kingdom (or Chozo civilization), lack of exposition, "kill all the big bosses to fill up the thing that opens the big scary door," etc. I think Dark Souls was partly so notable just because it successfully modernized a lot of pretty classic old school game concepts.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:29
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for enraged guardian i feel like a lot of people make it harder on themselves by moving around a lot. it's best to hang out in one spot and only move when a beam is aimed at you. the boss itself doesn't move around on the ground so there''s no need to do anything preemptively, just react to its moves. if you were already doing this then i don't have any additional advice sorry. react better.
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Jul 13, 2021 03:46
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RIP my steel soul run. Fudged it on the puzzle path leading to crystal charge move My shame is great but these thumbs are willing to try again
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Jul 13, 2021 03:52
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sending you my energy, friend
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Jul 13, 2021 04:32
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Deckit posted:RIP my steel soul run. Fudged it on the puzzle path leading to crystal charge move My shame is great but these thumbs are willing to try again My advice for steel soul - depending entirely on how much you *care* - is to be willing to pause the game at 1 health and quit out, which will return you to your most recent bench.
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Jul 13, 2021 05:18
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i never did that on my successful steel soul runs. i probably would have if i got to 1 health late into the run, but it never happened so we'll never know. 
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Jul 13, 2021 05:26
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Whew, took me several hours' worth of attempts over 3 days but I beat Pantheon of the Knight finally. I think I'm going to take a break for awhile before I even attempt Pantheon of Hallownest; might try Steel Soul or one of the speedrun challenges first.
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Jul 13, 2021 21:29
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Meatbag Esq. posted:My advice for steel soul - depending entirely on how much you *care* - is to be willing to pause the game at 1 health and quit out, which will return you to your most recent bench. That was my trick!
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Jul 13, 2021 23:00
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I've had Hollow Knight for between 2 and 3 years, and until a week ago I'd played it for a sum total of about 6 hours. I hated the map mechanics which just led to me constantly getting lost, the bosses were just a little too tricky, the atmosphere was trying too hard. I must have tried getting into it half a dozen times. Once I managed to be in the right headspace and got a few hours in, but then I had to put it down for a while and when I got back I forgot completely what I was doing and where I was going. Well, I've been on a metroidvania kick lately, which is not uncommon with me. I'd been playing Ender Lilies, which I've quite liked so far, and something about the atmosphere reminded me of Hollow Knight, so I figured I'd try and give it another shot. I've played about 12 hours in the past 3 or 4 days and I'm absolutely hooked. I still don't know what's different about this time but it's finally come together for me. I got a wall jump, which opened up the game like crazy. I started getting a bit of a knack where new areas were and, more importantly, where Cornifer was likely to be so I could find my way around. I started seeing more distinct and fully realized areas. I wandered around this mine full of pink crystals then suddenly found I'd unlocked the power to dash across giant gaping pits full of acid or thorns that I'd spotted here and there; it felt like Metroid's shinespark with how the world opened up. I fought a boss who was way too hard so I backed off and explored elsewhere until I couldn't find anything else to do but fight it. I triumphed after about a dozen more attempts...then I went to grab the new ability I'd unlocked and he revived and smashed me through the floor. I would have been saltier except that phase was way easier and I beat it first go, and then all of a sudden I had more map pins to go back to and unlock new areas. As I post I just got the upgrade that lets me past the shadow barriers that had been blocking me from exploring an area I'd had access to the outskirts of from early on, so now I'm exploring even more. What a great game. I'm glad I finally get it.
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Jul 15, 2021 06:33
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multijoe posted:You can't really rip on a game for copying Hollow Knight when Hollow Knight ripped so much off of
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Jul 15, 2021 07:07
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woke kaczynski posted:I've had Hollow Knight for between 2 and 3 years, and until a week ago I'd played it for a sum total of about 6 hours. I hated the map mechanics which just led to me constantly getting lost, the bosses were just a little too tricky, the atmosphere was trying too hard. I must have tried getting into it half a dozen times. Once I managed to be in the right headspace and got a few hours in, but then I had to put it down for a while and when I got back I forgot completely what I was doing and where I was going. Everyone gets got by Soul Master and it's such an  moment
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Jul 15, 2021 07:31
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Took me about 45 minutes to get the hang of his moves but nightmare king is dead. I don't think I can be hosed with the godmaster stuff tbh, I loathe boss rushes. Is there any way to fight the new bosses on their own without having to slog through all the other bosses?
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Jul 15, 2021 10:56
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Explicitly yes, Godhome is split into the pantheons (aka boss rush mode), and a corridor of statues where you can fight any boss you've unlocked. This also includes NKG, which lets you fight him without having to blood sacrifice small children, you monster.
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Jul 15, 2021 11:05
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Definitely start with the one boss at a time statues and see if you like them enough to do the harder versions. A lot of players (me included) felt the same way at first, that Godhome stuff seemed like a step too far in difficulty and punishment, but once you start you may be really surprised at how satisfying it is.
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Jul 15, 2021 11:14
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In my experience, as someone who also took on NKG and then looked at the pantheons and said "gently caress that", they're not too bad especially if you give yourself a bit of a break before really committing. The only major wall was in the third one (Zote!!!) and the rest were either very easy or enjoyable enough to try a few times, and the payoff with the Pure Vessel boss fight in the last one was absolutely worth the effort IMO.
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Jul 15, 2021 12:49
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you mean second-to-last, surely 
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Jul 15, 2021 12:50
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