(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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What passes for the left in America has been helped immensely by Trump being president.
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Jul 11, 2021 12:51
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i only voted locally in the last presidential election but biden has almost fully convinced me to vote trump if he shows up again in 2024 it's the same garbage but trump is very obviously a dumbass moron and would often do stupid poo poo on a whim, which makes it easier to organize against him and accelerates the decay of the status quo
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Jul 11, 2021 16:14
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you could also do just about anything else with your life which doesn't hinge upon magical thinking and makes you just as much of a target as the cretins who voted for biden over kids in cages
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Jul 11, 2021 17:14
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:What passes for the left in America has been helped immensely by Trump being president. that’s truly depressing because it hasn’t really moved the needle
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Jul 11, 2021 17:15
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i look at the usa and i think "how can i help hasten the destruction of this"
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Jul 11, 2021 17:16
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The Voice of Labor posted:
Wtf are you talking about the CPUSA was influential enough in the 20s and 30s to scare the bourgeois into the new deal. Your reasoning is so patently false I'd recommend you read a history book on the American labor movement.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:11
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solidarity with cuba against this poo poo https://twitter.com/doug_hanks/status/1414335436282073093?s=21
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Jul 12, 2021 03:26
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Dreddout posted:Wtf are you talking about the CPUSA was influential enough in the 20s and 30s to scare the bourgeois into the new deal. I don’t have time to read a history book on a failed movement, I have enough of those in the bathroom. What did they do to scare the bourgeoisie into the New Deal?
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Jul 12, 2021 18:07
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mawarannahr posted:I don’t have time to read a history book on a failed movement, I have enough of those in the bathroom. What did they do to scare the bourgeoisie into the New Deal? they did communist organizing at them what do you think they did
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Jul 12, 2021 18:22
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dead gay comedy forums posted:hell yeah. If you consider that Thyssen, Rheinmetall et al were almost all led by Juncker-fied new money (or the rare contrary case of the bougiefied aristocrat), then that certain major figures responsible on that aspect were upper middle class ambitious malcontents (Albert loving Speer), then it becomes quite an interesting picture. One of my theories is that fascism is a psychosis of liberalism but with the aristocratic context. Mainly old aristocrats carried the "trauma" from the French revolution. Blue blood turned to racial superiority over Slavs aand Masonic Jacobin conspiracies turned into Judeo Bolshevism. At the same time, they revived ancient ideas about warfare and looting. This is the other context that can explain imperialist colonialist war in the style of Teutonic crusades, quote:From this point of view, the nazis act as a highly volatile integrator force to make capitalism "work" through a contradictory extreme: slave labor, the closing of trade, etc. These measures work in the immediate through the increase of productivity but do not develop capitalist economic relations, as they are completely unsustainable it was really about wholesale robbery
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Jul 12, 2021 18:23
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mawarannahr posted:I don’t have time to read a history book on a failed movement, I have enough of those in the bathroom. What did they do to scare the bourgeoisie into the New Deal? If you're an American leftist you absolutely should read about what didn't work in the past in your country. Otherwise you're just going to repeat their mistakes to worse results. Suffice to say https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbD1XDhKr8U
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Jul 12, 2021 18:27
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Victories of the bourgeois are not victories for Fascism, which defines victory in terms of a revolutionary transformation of the bourgeois state into eternal fascism. Most reactionary latin american governments don't even count as fascist, even if they were dictatorships of one form or another. since fascism is about finance capital overriding democratic decision making and turning the country into an internal colony, US financed and backed reactionary puppet governments are fascist in nature. This separate from popularly based conservative governments.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:28
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Dreddout posted:If you're an American leftist you absolutely should read about what didn't work in the past in your country. Otherwise you're just going to repeat their mistakes to worse results. hes turkish
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Jul 12, 2021 18:30
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Dreddout posted:If you're an American leftist you absolutely should read about what didn't work in the past in your country. Otherwise you're just going to repeat their mistakes to worse results. Not American. I have a hard time discerning whether CPUSA was actually responsible for the organizing done by the unions or whether they only claim to be. What I have seen of American leftist groups is that they love taking credit for things they haven’t really done or just glommed on to as an extreme minority. They do this in the present and give themselves credit for past victories by other people. I have seen DSA and SA do this, I have seen ISO do this, I would probably see PSL do this if I looked carefully. So whenever someone makes a claim about a party in America it takes a really long time to verify if what they said is actually true.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:37
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the cpusa was a genuinely big deal in the 20s and 30s but the real credit for social democratic reforms in the states should just go to the ussr
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Jul 12, 2021 18:39
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ASAPRockySituation posted:how is it not what it means, he is excited because Trump helped move the process along for that subgoal to be possible. I get that you're saying its a sign but I heard him say basically hes glad that Trump helped create the conditions which implies he is the cause. yes, but colloquially accelerationism means the person who advocates it has actual agency over reality. he is not enthusiastic about voting for trump or starting a riot just the signs of changing times and the fragility of the established neoliberal order. He has never said anything other than he has recognized that trump is a symptom of underlying causes
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Jul 12, 2021 22:08
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mawarannahr posted:Not American. I have a hard time discerning whether CPUSA was actually responsible for the organizing done by the unions or whether they only claim to be. What I have seen of American leftist groups is that they love taking credit for things they haven’t really done or just glommed on to as an extreme minority. They do this in the present and give themselves credit for past victories by other people. I have seen DSA and SA do this, I have seen ISO do this, I would probably see PSL do this if I looked carefully. So whenever someone makes a claim about a party in America it takes a really long time to verify if what they said is actually true. https://bookshop.org/books/hammer-and-hoe-alabama-communists-during-the-great-depression/9781469625485
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Jul 12, 2021 22:13
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Top City Homo posted:One of my theories is that fascism is a psychosis of liberalism but with the aristocratic context. Mainly old aristocrats carried the "trauma" from the French revolution. Blue blood turned to racial superiority over Slavs aand Masonic Jacobin conspiracies turned into Judeo Bolshevism. At the same time, they revived ancient ideas about warfare and looting. I just read aime cesaire's discourse on colonialism and it seemed pretty clear to me that fascism is just the ideology of capitalism, and the degree to which that fascism is visible is a function of the size of the capital and its ability to accumulate surplus. that's how you can have a global superpower with concentration camps on the border, troops in every black neighborhood, and shantytowns all over the place but it's "not fascist." despite the unfathomable mass of capital compared to the world wars, there is still a large enough strata of dilettante capitalists making fat stacks far removed from the realities of extraction, so there is enough slack in the system to indulge the intellectual bullshit of liberalism
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Jul 13, 2021 01:14
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Top City Homo posted:https://bookshop.org/books/hammer-and-hoe-alabama-communists-during-the-great-depression/9781469625485 Thanks. I skimmed this a bit and while it’s well written it doesn’t seem to say how Communist Party had any significant impact on the New Deal. At anything more than a local level or personal involvement of particular members in some unions and actions, at the national level they didn’t seem to have much influence. quote:...county leadership adopted many of the strategies and tactics used by the unemployed councils during the early 1930s. Local alliance organizers confronted the Department of Water and Power when individual workers faced utilities shutoffs, created committees to settle problems with relief officials, and tried to deal directly with local WPA authorities regarding working conditions, wages, and pay schedules.l4 But because the Party's support for the New Deal had been consolidated, especially during 1938, Communist leadership now discouraged wildcat strikes and walkouts on WPA projects. Moreover, the Workers Alliance at the national level devel- oped a narrower approach to activism than the Party had originally con- ceived, evolving into essentially a "trade union for the WPAworkers." Such an approach proved largely ineffective because, as a government relief agency, the WPA did not depend on profits and a continuous flow of labor for its survival. Alliance members were still subject to the whims and caprices of local administrators. As one Bessemer woman put it, local authorities continued to "resort to all sorts of excuse and pretxts [sic] for denying relief or for dropping Negroes from the releifs [sic] rol~s." The book has many more examples that all end in “proved largely ineffective.” I can’t find anything about how the party specifically impacted the New Deal, and the organizations that did appear to have an influence, like the United Mine Workers, weren’t really associated with any socialist party and they purged socialists from their ranks. At the time they could ha e had an influence, CPUSA discouraged actions and generally supported Roosevelt in his presidential campaigns, mostly on the DL. This is basically what a lot of DSA did last year and the tatters of CPUSA (not to mention RCP) did the same non-endorsement endorsement: https://www.cpusa.org/party_voices/the-youth-vote-and-the-socialist-moment/ posted:
We know how that turned out.
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Jul 13, 2021 04:14
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How much is that rooted in the shift from Foster to Browder? quote:Foster began to lose power within the Party, due to his imprisonment during the Party's convention in 1930 and his continuing differences with others in the Party over trade union policies. In 1930, he ran for Governor of New York on the Communist ticket. Btw, I don't think the New Deal was rooted just in the still relatively modest advancements of the CPUSA but the general lack of faith in the US government during the early 1930s and growing dissent on the left and right. Btw, I don't think the New Deal was fascist, but rather a compromise solution to keep the liberal system running when it was under increasing stress. As for Latin America military dictatorships, many of them at least tried to keep a fig leaf of institutional involvement going with occasional controlled elections and keeping some of the structure of the previous state going. Fascism, is a full illiberal break, in my opinion, in service in perpetuating capital. Those dictatorships if anything were the last gasp of liberalism before the emergency break is pulled.
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Jul 13, 2021 04:52
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the only reason that CPUSA was any flavor of threat was because the Soviet Union existed
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Jul 13, 2021 05:35
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the 1934 general strikes were big in getting the NLRA passed in 1935, which largely legalized unions as we know them. at least two of the three that happened all had a pretty politically consolidated core. i hate to say it, but the trots worked with the teamster to be the backbone of the general strike in Minneapolis. the head of the Longshoreman which led the the west coast general strike was probably in the CPUSA, he at the very least was banned from officially leading the union in the 1950s because of it I don't know enough about the toledo auto lite strike to comment on that one
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Jul 13, 2021 05:35
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:the only reason that CPUSA was any flavor of threat was because the Soviet Union existed Well yeah, the only reason the CPUSA existed in the first place is because of people jumping ship from the spusa post Russian rev You might as well be making the same argument about literally any 20th century communist party, including the successful ones. Ie: china. Outside backing doesn't change the fact that the local national party itself was the vector through which the working class was organized. Americans joined the CPUSA because of the CPUSAs preeminence in the labor movement, not because of the USSR.
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Jul 13, 2021 17:11
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This is easily one of the best books on Marxism I’ve read in 10 years.   quote:Marx’s Inferno reconstructs the major arguments of Karl Marx’s Capital and inaugurates a completely new reading of a seminal classic. Rather than simply a critique of classical political economy, William Roberts argues that Capital was primarily a careful engagement with the motives and aims of the workers’ movement. Understood in this light, Capital emerges as a profound work of political theory. Placing Marx against the background of nineteenth-century socialism, Roberts shows how Capital was ingeniously modeled on Dante’s Inferno, and how Marx, playing the role of Virgil for the proletariat, introduced partisans of workers’ emancipation to the secret depths of the modern “social Hell.” In this manner, Marx revised republican ideas of freedom in response to the rise of capitalism. MLSM has issued a correction as of 17:49 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 13, 2021 17:38
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Dreddout posted:Well yeah, the only reason the CPUSA existed in the first place is because of people jumping ship from the spusa post Russian rev It's not just "outside backing", its that the USSR was a direct competitor on an international level to the US and an actually-existing alternative to capitalism which provided a material threat to capital and the machinery of US governance and an actually viable alternative organizers could point at. I guess I don't get what there is to learn from the CPUSA in order to scare the bourgeoise into doing something that doesn't have "make the Soviet Union exist again" as step 1.
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Jul 13, 2021 22:33
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it's a shame that "provided a material threat to capital and the machinery of US governance and an actually viable alternative organizers could point at" doesn't apply to the PRC in the way it did to the USSR (yet, hopefully)
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Jul 13, 2021 22:54
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indigi posted:it's a shame that "provided a material threat to capital and the machinery of US governance and an actually viable alternative organizers could point at" doesn't apply to the PRC in the way it did to the USSR (yet, hopefully) it will inherit the entire international apparatus and build upon it while the usa balkanizes
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Jul 13, 2021 23:07
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yeah, maybe the average Chinese worker’s standard of living improving as the American’s declines will be enough in the not-too-distant future. It’d require a more aggressive Chinese stance to America though, I think, but that might be inevitable anyway. I do think some people actually took notice when wuhan was safe enough to have pool raves during the worst of the American COVID epidemic. it’s a start, at least.
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Jul 13, 2021 23:10
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Top City Homo posted:it will inherit the entire international apparatus and build upon it while the usa balkanizes sure, man
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Jul 13, 2021 23:22
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:It's not just "outside backing", its that the USSR was a direct competitor on an international level to the US and an actually-existing alternative to capitalism which provided a material threat to capital and the machinery of US governance and an actually viable alternative organizers could point at. I guess I don't get what there is to learn from the CPUSA in order to scare the bourgeoise into doing something that doesn't have "make the Soviet Union exist again" as step 1.
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Jul 13, 2021 23:33
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president xi,
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Jul 13, 2021 23:34
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Top City Homo posted:it will inherit the entire international apparatus and build upon it while the usa balkanizes hell yeah, president xi send the relief ships
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Jul 13, 2021 23:35
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:yeah, maybe the average Chinese worker’s standard of living improving as the American’s declines will be enough in the not-too-distant future. It’d require a more aggressive Chinese stance to America though, I think, but that might be inevitable anyway. I would say that China being a genuine competitor to the US is enough to change how the world works. Even if you don't think China has a better system, competition on its own forces its own shift.
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Jul 14, 2021 00:00
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:What is the utility in once again pressuring the bourgeois to buy off the working class? oh to be clear I don't think anything at all -- even if the historical tactics of the CPUSA could provide some insight as to how to get another New Deal we should actively ignore it because as bad as things are and will be, lulling the working class into another era of complacency will gently caress us beyond even the tiniest slivers of hope. That said I don't think it's even possible to make a new New Deal in the current era. Ardennes posted:I would say that China being a genuine competitor to the US is enough to change how the world works. Even if you don't think China has a better system, competition on its own forces its own shift. I agree, but I'm talking specifically in terms of fomenting a US communist party, or bloc, or organization strategy or whatever. I think there needs to be some sort of change on how the average American worker thinks of China, even if it is totally passive on China's part. I don't think it's enough to know that somewhere else someone lives differently if different doesn't also mean better.
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Jul 14, 2021 00:43
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the new deal was an apartheid regime so yes I hope it would not be possible again today.
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Jul 14, 2021 00:51
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lol what
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Jul 14, 2021 00:53
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the new deal was racist yes but it wasn’t “an apartheid regime”. It was a series of economic bills
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Jul 14, 2021 00:54
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this isn’t the thread to argue it I’m sorry. I’ll just admit I was wrong
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Jul 14, 2021 00:55
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Classic Euphronius
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Jul 14, 2021 01:09
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| # ? May 25, 2024 20:13 |
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euph no 
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Jul 14, 2021 01:11
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