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Dren posted:I’m concerned about vaccine effectiveness of 80%ish against infection because even asymptomatic infection can lead to long covid. It’s great that vaccines are so protective against hospitalization, however, if I can still get long covid that’s a pretty bad outcome too. Thanks  it just got worse and now I have to wear a mask to hide the new and exiting rash I got off of these new masks I tried so welp  I’ll still wear the mask because it’s still the law and I’m not a lunatic - that’s kind of what I was really badly trying to say, when you got a huge delta wave sweeping though unvaccinated people, in the UK’s case the young, all the talk of if the vaccine does or does not work just puts a negative spin on vaccines when that’s just not helpful, or anything an individual could ever change. The real issue is the huge uncontained delta wave sweeping through unvaccinated people, so the question should be “what do I as a individual do about this?” If all you can do is wear a mask and keep your distance then that’s at least something.
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Jul 14, 2021 15:19
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https://twitter.com/business/status/1415165488770977797?s=20 Indonesia becoming a new epicenter was so predictable, for the last year and a half it's just been the same handful of Indonesia focused epidemiologists saying poo poo's going to get bad and the government is in denial, and now poo poo continues to get bad and the government is still focused on pretending it's under control. Today was 54,000 new cases with a pcr positive rate of 42% and 12% antigen positive rate. It's fortunate that my partner and the 8 members of their family that have covid haven't had any major symptoms because every single hospital in Jakarta is full so they'd just be hosed if anything happened. So far the daughter of one of Indonesia's founders died of it, and a regent died in a hospital in a different city than the one he governs because all of the hospitals in his were full, and some politicians have tried to push for a special hospital just for them because now they're worried. Also Eid al-Adha is next week, and no doubt the government will gently caress up stopping gatherings for that as well.
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Jul 14, 2021 16:02
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AZ in BR PPquote:9433 participants were eligible for inclusion in the pre-specified primary efficacy population, having reached more than 14 days after a second dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19, of whom 307 were NAAT+, in this post-hoc analysis. From June 2020 to February 2021, the two most frequently identified lineages were P.2 (N=153) and B.1.1.28 (N=49). P.1 emerged during the study (N=18) but became dominant only after study unblinding. Viral loads were highest amongst those with P.1 infection. Vaccine efficacy (VE) for B.1.1.33 (88.2%, 95%CI 5, 99), B.1.1.28 (73%, 95% CI, 46, 86), P.2 (69% 95% CI, 55, 78) and P.1 (64%, 95% CI, -2, 87) was estimated. In participants who had received two doses of vaccine, one COVID-19 hospitalisation occurred in the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 group and 18 in the control group, with VE against hospitalisation 95% (95% CI 61, 99). There were 2 COVID-19 deaths in the control group and none in the vaccine group. You could drive a truck through the confidence intervals, but not bad news.
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Jul 14, 2021 16:10
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1. All my posts in this thread are get a vaccine wear a mask. 2. This text makes absolutely no sense at all 3. You absolute weapon.
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Jul 14, 2021 17:54
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I got that second Pfizer after 8 weeks, hooray! They had a doctor talk to everybody beforehand here which we didn't have at my first jab... He was telling me in his opinion long covid is gonna be a really big societal deal from all the antivax idiots getting debilitating long covid. That'll be fun.
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Jul 14, 2021 17:59
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Dren posted:I’m concerned about vaccine effectiveness of 80%ish against infection because even asymptomatic infection can lead to long covid. It’s great that vaccines are so protective against hospitalization, however, if I can still get long covid that’s a pretty bad outcome too. I want to start this with: I am not necessarily disagreeing with your stance, but do you have any sources on asymptomatic COVID turning into long-haul COVID after full vaccination? The only information I can find about this is some pre-prints and articles that are pretty vague about incidence rates.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:08
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cash crab posted:I want to start this with: I am not necessarily disagreeing with your stance, but do you have any sources on asymptomatic COVID turning into long-haul COVID after full vaccination? The only information I can find about this is some pre-prints and articles that are pretty vague about incidence rates. TBH I'm not even sure if there is enough data out there for that. It seems like we need at least a full year before they'd know for sure. There might be some preliminary stuff maybe?
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Jul 14, 2021 18:10
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Jeza posted:Even if it's 100% factually true, I can't help but feel presenting the stats in such a nakedly political way only serves to entrench the battlelines on the issue. They're already entrenched as gently caress, who are we kidding bro
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Jul 14, 2021 18:15
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AHH F/UGH posted:They're already entrenched as gently caress, who are we kidding bro yeah...yeah... 
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Jul 14, 2021 18:26
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cash crab posted:I want to start this with: I am not necessarily disagreeing with your stance, but do you have any sources on asymptomatic COVID turning into long-haul COVID after full vaccination? The only information I can find about this is some pre-prints and articles that are pretty vague about incidence rates. I do not have sources. My stance comes from considering two pieces of information. One, we don't know the rate at which fully vaxxed people who suffer an infection get long covid but we do know they are more likely to experience an asymptomatic or mild infection than a severe one. And two, we know that mild or asymptomatic infection can lead to long covid:
I recognize that the vaccine could protect against long covid but until we know that I think we have to act as if those who get even mild or asymptomatic breakthrough infections are just as susceptible to it.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:33
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learnincurve posted:1. All my posts in this thread are get a vaccine wear a mask. You got covid twice and still bitch about masks and want to take them off and just stress test the gently caress out of the vaccines, which WILL break them, but you think they won't because they are "different"... there's something to that gray matter loss. There's a lot of minimizing in your posts!
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Jul 14, 2021 18:34
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Dren posted:I do not have sources. My stance comes from considering two pieces of information. One, we don't know the rate at which fully vaxxed people who suffer an infection get long covid but we do know they are more likely to experience an asymptomatic or mild infection than a severe one. And two, we know that mild or asymptomatic infection can lead to long covid: Just so you know, both of those articles refer back to the same non-peer-reviewed pre-print study. The reason I'm bringing this up is I'm looking for more sources about this because while I can find a lot of articles extrapolating on the data from this study, the sample in this study (which seems to be the basis for a lot of these articles) is using a sample size of ~1400 and what appears to be a testing criteria that relies heavily on self-reported questionnaires, not to mention very specific inclusion criteria. MarcusSA posted:TBH I'm not even sure if there is enough data out there for that. It seems like we need at least a full year before they'd know for sure. There might be some preliminary stuff maybe? I would even guess that if fully-vaccinated people could develop the same rates of asymptomatic long-COVID it would take even longer since I assume the bulk of research is going towards seeing how long the vaccine is effective for in terms of hospitalization and death
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Jul 14, 2021 18:47
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We know that some people with long covid who received the vaccines saw a reduction in their symptoms, so that's maybe room for optimism. But yeah, the big problem right now is lack of data.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:53
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cash crab posted:Just so you know, both of those articles refer back to the same non-peer-reviewed pre-print study. The reason I'm bringing this up is I'm looking for more sources about this because while I can find a lot of articles extrapolating on the data from this study, the sample in this study (which seems to be the basis for a lot of these articles) is using a sample size of ~1400 and what appears to be a testing criteria that relies heavily on self-reported questionnaires, not to mention very specific inclusion criteria. Makes sense. I had heard some doctors interviewed about long covid who were saying a huge problem is even medically defining long covid. If there's no definition how can its prevalence be studied? It is upsetting that long covid prevalence is not receiving the same attention as prevalence of hospitalization and death because to me all three cross the red line into "very bad". ultrafilter posted:We know that some people with long covid who received the vaccines saw a reduction in their symptoms, so that's maybe room for optimism. But yeah, the big problem right now is lack of data. I've seen anecdotes on twitter of those people feeling better for a month post-vaccine then their long covid symptoms came back. 
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Jul 14, 2021 18:55
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Strep Vote posted:You got covid twice and still bitch about masks and want to take them off and just stress test the gently caress out of the vaccines, which WILL break them, but you think they won't because they are "different"... there's something to that gray matter loss. There's a lot of minimizing in your posts! I got covid doing my job as a care worker while wearing a mask. As it happens I was able to recognise that the disabled toilet I had walked into was unsafe and was able to prevent the vulnerable person behind me that I was escorting in from getting coved themselves. putting words into my mouth is just super creepy. I was angry drunk posting about the football while watching tens of thousands of people who had broken in to the stadium without taking any covid tests and pissed that the masks have given me rashes while they don’t even care about delta. I never said I wouldn’t be wearing a mask.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:08
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Dren posted:Makes sense. I had heard some doctors interviewed about long covid who were saying a huge problem is even medically defining long covid. If there's no definition how can its prevalence be studied? I think one of the issues is that it's mostly reliant on self-reported data, including anecdotal reporting on social media. Who is more likely to discuss their experience with COVID online: someone who experiencing ongoing symptoms, or someone who had an asymptomatic case and never got tested? Even if I had a mild, symptomatic case of COVID, I don't think I would go on Twitter and discuss how for a week and a half I felt like poo poo and then I was fine because that would honestly sort of weird. That being said, maybe people do bring that up but I'm not super active on Twitter so I don't know.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:08
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learnincurve posted:I got covid doing my job as a care worker while wearing a mask. As it happens I was able to recognise that the disabled toilet I had walked into was unsafe and was able to prevent the vulnerable person behind me that I was escorting in from getting coved themselves. I mean this sincerely: what kind of mask are you wearing? You need to protect yourself and vaccines are far flimsier protection than a good physical barrier between you and all the people trying to kill you and your charges right now. It sets off alarm bells because the only PPE worth a drat is the PPE you can wear consistently and comfortably and that's the reality right now. I guess I want you to be comfortable rather than grasp at the hope that the vaccines will free us, because that's not happening right now. E: like someone up thread pointed out, even earsavers are usually a huge step up in comfort.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:34
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cash crab posted:I would even guess that if fully-vaccinated people could develop the same rates of asymptomatic long-COVID it would take even longer since I assume the bulk of research is going towards seeing how long the vaccine is effective for in terms of hospitalization and death The scariest part of the pandemic for me, a fully vaccinated person, is not knowing when or if the vaccine will just stop being effective. Until and unless I just get full-blown, hospitalized, life-threatening COVID.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:38
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EL BROMANCE posted:Learnincurve I have to ask if at some point you sold your account to pick because 6 of the last 10 posts are yours and that’s just the kind of ridiculous bullshit that she would pull. 
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Jul 14, 2021 19:44
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King Vidiot posted:The scariest part of the pandemic for me, a fully vaccinated person, is not knowing when or if the vaccine will just stop being effective. Until and unless I just get full-blown, hospitalized, life-threatening COVID. Right now, it's looking like six months and counting, which just literally means we have reasonable data for six months in a real-world setting. If vaccine efficacy wanes dramatically, the first people it will affect will be those most prone to hospitalization and death in the first place.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:46
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When I got covid the only PPE we had been issued with were the three layer surgical masks and finding anything else off your own bat was impossible I currently wear properly fitted FFP3 or FFP2 depending what’s in stock. I have allergies to the material (what it’s washed in mostly) and have to wear PPE up to 16 hours a day, although I don’t have the big visor marks across my forehead anymore since we got the better masks lol. What we did through lockdown was; 14 days on in a total lockdown bubble (“pod”), 2 days out in the community, self isolate in your own home for 14 days, covid test, back into pod. Did this from March 2020 till January 2021 when we all started to get vaccinated and the rules got relaxed slightly so you no longer had to self isolate after being out in the community 14 days after the second shot. Still have to wear a mask though. Someone sat down and typed that avatar text about an actual care worker.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:50
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King Vidiot posted:The scariest part of the pandemic for me, a fully vaccinated person, is not knowing when or if the vaccine will just stop being effective. Until and unless I just get full-blown, hospitalized, life-threatening COVID. We know that antibodies fade after about six months, so you should expect to see a big spike in vaccinated people developing symptomatic illnesses later this year. However, there are indications that the other protective mechanisms your immune system provides will last much longer. What exactly that means is TBD, but my friends from grad school who did immunology generally seem to be pretty optimistic about long-term protection from the vaccines.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:56
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learnincurve posted:When I got covid the only PPE we had been issued with were the three layer surgical masks and finding anything else off your own bat was impossible If it's a required and provided piece of equipment, I want to talk to your manager and find an alternative. Do these have valves, are they reusable, etc. Actually gently caress it I'm going Karen and there's probably nothing you can do about it for bureaucratic or legal reasons. Ear savers, a silicone respirator, disposable if you have to wear it that long ugh the whole thing is so mismanaged!!!!
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Jul 14, 2021 20:03
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I can't wait to go back to school 7/27. Currently, no masks for """vaccinated""" (those are huge air quotes) students and staff. They changed it to that for summer school and I highly doubt they verify everyone. However, other area schools are dropping mandatory masks completely unless the county positivity rate hits level 3 and I'd almost bet my paycheck that our superintendent changes our guidance before school changes to be in line with the rest of the county.
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Jul 14, 2021 20:07
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Strep Vote posted:If it's a required and provided piece of equipment, I want to talk to your manager and find an alternative. Do these have valves, are they reusable, etc. They were provided by a “private company” which presumably means it’s a Tory contract. I am only there till next week and then I leave (after 16 years in various PA roles) to do a temporary one on one thing alongside the community voluntary work. Although again, that does require PPE but I’ll be able to provide that myself and find something I don’t react to. They make you throw your own masks away at the door and wear theirs btw. I’m probably going to go do hotel housekeeping till the pandemic is over.
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Jul 14, 2021 20:24
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learnincurve posted:They were provided by a “private company” which presumably means it’s a Tory contract. I am only there till next week and then I leave (after 16 years in various PA roles) to do a temporary one on one thing alongside the community voluntary work. Although again, that does require PPE but I’ll be able to provide that myself and find something I don’t react to. gently caress that sucks. I realized about halfway through that it's pointless and anything I could do to help with this one small problem that is bothering you so much is the tiniest drop in the bucket so sorry for going off. We're stuck like this for at least six more months, if not years, so there will be plenty of time to come up with better solutions by necessity.
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Jul 14, 2021 20:36
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Jeza posted:Even if it's 100% factually true, I can't help but feel presenting the stats in such a nakedly political way only serves to entrench the battlelines on the issue. I'd like to think I am generally a very empathetic person, but when it comes to this, not so much. Let freedom ring, you'll create more jobs for the morgue.
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Jul 14, 2021 20:40
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Strep Vote posted:gently caress that sucks. I realized about halfway through that it's pointless and anything I could do to help with this one small problem that is bothering you so much is the tiniest drop in the bucket so sorry for going off. We're stuck like this for at least six more months, if not years, so there will be plenty of time to come up with better solutions by necessity. I hope so, it’s an odd problem and the solver of it will be beloved by millions of the real nurses on covid wards who have it ten times worse than me because of the heat and humidity they have to deal with. One of the images that struck me and is still with me now was in January Dr Whitty did a press conference after pulling all the dog poo poo shifts over Christmas and new year on the covid wards, so other doctors could go home and see their families, and he had the mask rash all over him. That really did feel like a “we are in this together” moment far more than any clapping did
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Jul 14, 2021 20:45
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Pal what victim blaming rear end in a top hat bought you that av
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Jul 14, 2021 21:05
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Strep Vote posted:If it's a required and provided piece of equipment, I want to talk to your manager and find an alternative. Do these have valves, are they reusable, etc. Do you know what the care industry is like in the UK? The 12 months I spent working around it were awful, no care for the workers at all. They were just replaceable drones. Anyway. I know a lady who is 50 and has a lung condition. Something to do with pre asbestosis or something. She’s caught COVID and is not well. I said I was surprised as I’d read that people with both shots generally didn’t get too sick. She said she hadn’t bothered getting vaccinated as ‘what’s the point if you can still catch it’. 
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Jul 14, 2021 21:06
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Strep Vote posted:I mean this sincerely: what kind of mask are you wearing? You need to protect yourself and vaccines are far flimsier protection than a good physical barrier between you and all the people trying to kill you and your charges right now. I am fairly confident that "vaccines are a flimsier protection than masks" is not true.
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Jul 14, 2021 21:23
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the human mind is notoriously bad at calculating distances and percentage, odds of events occurring, etc. absolutely dogshit
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Jul 14, 2021 21:27
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A correctly fitted N95 is 95% effective against covid and the flu while worn in conjunction with eye protection is a stat I only remember because of the obvious. So if you are immunocompromised, unvaccinated, or just want the best ones then those + eyewear are your best bet
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Jul 14, 2021 21:31
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Strep Vote posted:gently caress that sucks. I realized about halfway through that it's pointless and anything I could do to help with this one small problem that is bothering you so much is the tiniest drop in the bucket so sorry for going off. We're stuck like this for at least six more months, if not years, so there will be plenty of time to come up with better solutions by necessity. We're stuck like this until the entire globe is adequately vaccinated... or mandatory quarantines and testing are imposed at borders.
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Jul 14, 2021 21:34
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monkeytennis posted:Do you know what the care industry is like in the UK? The 12 months I spent working around it were awful, no care for the workers at all. They were just replaceable drones. If this person doesn't consume the info closely I get that mistake. It took a bit for the people watching this stuff like a hawk to understand the efficacy vs effectiveness stuff. They haven't done enough to make those differences known, Vox's video in the best I've seen so far talking about some of that: https://youtu.be/K3odScka55A
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Jul 14, 2021 21:39
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Re long-term vaccine effectiveness (including against variants) I'm a candidate in the phase 3 trial for the Valneva vaccine which is an inactivated whole virus vaccine. The people running the trial said that one of the things they were testing was if it would offer more adaptable / longer lasting protection vs the ones that are just based on the spike proteins. If so then we might see more whole virus vaccines in future. I also got zero side effects apart from a very slightly tender arm for a couple of days after. The control group got AZ which flattens most people so I'm pretty sure I'm on that good experimental juice.
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Jul 14, 2021 21:43
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Strep Vote posted:You need to protect yourself and vaccines are far flimsier protection than a good physical barrier What kind of anti-vax nonsense is this? This is absolutely incorrect and dangerous. Masks are a stopgap at best but they were the best thing we had at the time. A good N95 can also provide protection for those that a vaccine may not be fully effective in too of course. EugeneDebsWasCool fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 22:37
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A fully vaccinated nurse at one of our largest hospitals has tested positive. She's asymptomatic and it was detected during routine screening. She works on the covid ward so if she contracted it at work, it should y possible to determine from which patient.
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Jul 14, 2021 22:57
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EugeneDebsWasCool posted:What kind of anti-vax nonsense is this? This is absolutely incorrect and dangerous. Masks are a stopgap at best but they were the best thing we had at the time. A good N95 can also provide protection for those that a vaccine may not be fully effective in too of course. Better go make a thread in QCS for these craven antivaxx mask fetishists! We have remarkable vaccines but pretending they're more effective than good PPE is absolutely incorrect. Also, is this just a thing you do? poo poo on people who advocate for NPI alongside vaccines? EugeneDebsWasCool posted:Your original claim was that the Delta variant wasn't "included" in the vaccines which is blatantly false. You're either severely misinformed or you're essentially lying to spread fear that the vaccines are ineffective which only furthers the antivax cause. The only solution to Covid right now in the United States is full vaccination. Edit: To be clear, this reply is not directed at learningcurve or the very real difficulties of long shifts and correct ppe usage. I would have bought PAPR's for my friends and family that are HCP if it had been possible. Blitter fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 23:08
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Blitter posted:Better go make a thread in QCS for these craven antivaxx mask fetishists! I think learningcurve has every right to be frustrated and voice her frustration. Im in the Netherlands which is very similar to the UK in terms of covid and it's absolutely infuriating me and brings out very bad traits in me. I can only imagine how lovely it must fel for her what with all her care responsibilities. Buying her that avatar is a real dick move. Does someone have the original? Let's put it back there. That aside, what is known about mixing vaccines? I'm getting my second Biontech Pfizer soon, but in my region a location has popped up where you can just get the Janssen vaccine without a waiting list, no questions asked. If there were any benefit to getting that jab as well, I'd like to get it. Lord Stimperor fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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