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mind the walrus posted:I do agree in aggregate though-- a huge problem with blockbusters made after 2002 or so are terrified to show the main characters getting appreciably hurt and it's lame and it's weird and they should really figure that poo poo out. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a contractual thing. Like how actors won't wear helmets that cover their face (except for a plot-related shocking reveal), I would believe they don't wanna be shown bloody and exhausted. Ive heard its in The Rock's contracts now that he can't lose a fight.
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Jul 15, 2021 03:55
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Probably why he produces all his films now
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Jul 15, 2021 03:59
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Fashionable Jorts posted:I wouldn't be surprised if it was a contractual thing. Like how actors won't wear helmets that cover their face (except for a plot-related shocking reveal), I would believe they don't wanna be shown bloody and exhausted. The Marvel stuff is a slightly different beast. I can easily picture some actors being prima donnas about not wanting to look weak, but more likely I think it's just a brand-wide edict to make sure the "power fantasy" never gets broken too much... which is weird and stupid when you consider how much punishment the characters are taking in each movie. I might hate Thor: Ragnarok a lot for its jokes, but one thing I liked was that despite the characters all being demigods or w/e they were still ok to get the poo poo kicked out of them throughout the movie and by the end Thor is bloody and exhausted and blind in one eye.
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Jul 15, 2021 04:03
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People should give me money so I can buy trading cards
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Jul 15, 2021 04:13
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Fashionable Jorts posted:I would take a dance scene any day, since it's the same level of work and choreography, its inherently "unrealistic". Whereas the five minute brawls are trying to tell me that this is happening for real in this universe, with people who cannot tire. I think Mr Nobody's bus scene was my favourite one in ages, since the hero kinda got his rear end kicked. I just YouTube'd that scene and man, Bob Odenkirk going vigilante was a weird tone going in blind with no context. It was a great scene because it felt like there were stakes in play. If he lost, there was a good chance he'd die. Atomic Blonde's fights had a similar feel, too.
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Jul 15, 2021 05:53
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Elissimpark posted:I just YouTube'd that scene and man, Bob Odenkirk going vigilante was a weird tone going in blind with no context. You absolutely gotta watch that film if you liked that scene. It's pretty amazing.
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Jul 15, 2021 06:14
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PHUO: There are genuinely nice, good rich people around. (like my mom's college friend, now a retired major living in Coronado)
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Jul 15, 2021 06:18
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Grouchio posted:PHUO: There are genuinely nice, good rich people around. (like my mom's college friend, now a retired major living in Coronado) The system is designed--intentionally and/or naturally--that even if every rich person were genuinely nice and good, just following the structures and systems we've set up would still result in all of the problems we have right now. And most people of every strata are not genuinely nice and good. That's the core of the problem.
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Jul 15, 2021 06:31
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Grouchio posted:PHUO: There are genuinely nice, good rich people around. (like my mom's college friend, now a retired major living in Coronado) you can ostensibly be a nice, polite, charming person and still do bad things for personal gain, or at least work in support of a system that benefits you at the expense of other people. this is true for both rich and non-rich people, by the way plus there's rich and there's rich
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Jul 15, 2021 06:49
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nurmie posted:you can ostensibly be a nice, polite, charming person and still do bad things for personal gain, or at least work in support of a system that benefits you at the expense of other people. this is true for both rich and non-rich people, by the way
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Jul 15, 2021 07:01
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Grouchio posted:Of course. I'm just sick of the stereotype of evil bourgeois vs good commonfolk when the reality is clearly greyer. The bourgeoisie own the means of production. They own the company, and tbh I really doubt that there is a single large company owner who has not committed some sort of moral offence, and the bigger the company the higher the egregious nature of the offence.
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Jul 15, 2021 07:41
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Josef bugman posted:The bourgeoisie own the means of production. They own the company, and tbh I really doubt that there is a single large company owner who has not committed some sort of moral offence, and the bigger the company the higher the egregious nature of the offence. Milton Hershey
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Jul 15, 2021 08:51
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Gaius Marius posted:Milton Hershey The company he founded and then gave to his heirs is perhaps not the best example, considering all the child labour. He may well have been a decent person, he certainly seems better than a lot of early 20th century magnates. But there is still a paternalism in saying "I know what is best for you, and will decide what you get".
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Jul 15, 2021 09:05
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I mean I would expect the argument is supposed to go - you only reach a certain level of wealth by owning the company, and owning the company is morally wrong in itself because modern businesses are not fairly structured. I don't agree but we But then I see people posting absurd pseudoscience like: big money number reducescone's ability to feel empathy, therefore everyone with over $x is a psychotic apex predator who lives to spread suffering. Just the other day I saw an apparently earnest post stating that over a certain level of wealth, everyone specifically lusts to cause the deaths of poor people  And ofc none of this accounts for high flying professionals who are loaded but don't own or run anything. Or the opposite, a useless inheritor who just lounges around and goes on nice holidays.
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Jul 15, 2021 09:23
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Strategic Tea posted:I mean I would expect the argument is supposed to go - you only reach a certain level of wealth by owning the company, and owning the company is morally wrong in itself because modern businesses are not fairly structured. I don't agree but we you seem to focus on the personal qualities of wealthy people while neglecting the systematic issues that come with (and are inseparable from) the current worldwide socioeconomic mode of operation/production. it's kind of like arguing that there were some good kings/barons/feudals/slave owners (not saying that you'd be arguing precisely this point, by the way, just an example). i mean i'm sure there were people in these positions of power that were, uhhhh, "good people" - in an interpersonal context. however, that doesn't preclude feudalism from being a Bad System for like 98%* of people living under it i guess the current one is better, marginally - it's only a Bad System for like 75-80% of the world's population, so there's some progress at least  * this includes at least some of said barons/kings/feudals/slave owners - not all people would enjoy being in these positions, yet the system traps them there. same goes for some millionaires/billionaires, i suppose
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Jul 15, 2021 09:42
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TBF I do think when you reach a certain level of wealth that insulates you from the experience of the vast majority of people in this world (and I'm specifically thinking of billionaires as I say this), a level where even the concept of wondering how you're going to pay for something or if you're going to have the means to provide for yourself in your old age doesn't exist, how could that not warp your perception of things given a few decades?
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Jul 15, 2021 10:06
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I mean it depends on where you draw the line for rich, but there is a line where if you're above it, you are choosing, every day, to prioritize numbers in account or fancy car number four over a fellow citizen dying in the street. "The rich" that we should eat, the 1%, are so far above this line that "lusting for the death of poors" is a fair characterization.
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Jul 15, 2021 10:59
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The topic of a six‐hundred‐million‐dollar yacht came up recently, and someone commented “to be fair, as a proportion of Jeff Bezos’ wealth, that’s like if I bought a 2003 Honda Civic”. This is a true comparison, if the Honda Civic sold for three thousand dollars and the speaker had a net worth of a million dollars. Jeff Bezos could drat near buy a Honda Civic for every household in America.
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Jul 15, 2021 11:47
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Strategic Tea posted:I mean I would expect the argument is supposed to go - you only reach a certain level of wealth by owning the company, and owning the company is morally wrong in itself because modern businesses are not fairly structured. I don't agree but we all wealth is stolen
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Jul 15, 2021 12:29
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Fashionable Jorts posted:I wouldn't be surprised if it was a contractual thing. Like how actors won't wear helmets that cover their face (except for a plot-related shocking reveal), I would believe they don't wanna be shown bloody and exhausted. He's gone full Steven Seagal? Sad to hear. Hope that doesn't apply to his personal life.
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Jul 15, 2021 13:53
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christmas boots posted:TBF I do think when you reach a certain level of wealth that insulates you from the experience of the vast majority of people in this world (and I'm specifically thinking of billionaires as I say this), a level where even the concept of wondering how you're going to pay for something or if you're going to have the means to provide for yourself in your old age doesn't exist, how could that not warp your perception of things given a few decades? And we're all guilty of it. How many times a day do you really think about the slave labor that absolutely made your phones, computer, car, foods, etc. possible and even base-affordable? But bring it back out so you don't think I'm making some South Park argument about "um actually everyone sucks  " poo poo-- what I'm saying is that if your very modest working class life can still leave you with a massive cognitive dissonance on the daily about what it takes to maintain your lifestyle, how on earth can having even more money not lead to a similar-if-not-greater dissonance? It really does read as pride and ego at the core. We all want to believe we don't have limits-- defined at diminishing returns-- when we clearly do.
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Jul 15, 2021 14:52
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mind the walrus posted:
PHUO: this is untrue. Generally throughout history people do prove nice and good. A ground-floor neighbor I've said three words to immediately offered to take us and our cats and dog in when we got a tornado warning. An rear end in a top hat with a big ford truck and a Trump sticker pulled over to help when my gf blew a tire on a local highway. The Superdome in Katrina, when the media was screeching that it was the Purge inside, it turned out that there were 0 murders and 1 sexual assault, and bystanders beat the perpetrator when they realized it was happening. WW2-era terror bombings solidified communities instead of cowing them. I was at the 2016 Nice attack. In the aftermath everybody who could was calling for medics, helping each other, and providing first aid if they could. I'm sure there were some assholes but the vast majority of people sprung towards help, not harm or running away. It was the same in the protests last year, just way less dead and injured folks. I dislike the worldview that most people are bad/cowardly/malicious. Of course if there's a point where you have to choose between your own and strangers, you'll take your own. But if people have the opportunity and push comes to shove, they stand with each other. It's in our nature.
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Jul 15, 2021 14:54
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Strategic Tea posted:I mean I would expect the argument is supposed to go - you only reach a certain level of wealth by owning the company, and owning the company is morally wrong in itself because modern businesses are not fairly structured. I don't agree but we https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/ It literally does though. Like the issues are still systemic and some people can weather it’s effects better than others, but studies are showing that money can actually change the way you empathize with others. Pointing that out isn’t pseudoscience even if you met a rich lady who was nice to you once.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:14
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Elissimpark posted:I just YouTube'd that scene and man, Bob Odenkirk going vigilante was a weird tone going in blind with no context. I recommend watching the full movie, it's a blast and Bob Odenkirk is very charming in it.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:33
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:all wealth is stolen Exactly. Let's frame this in captalist terms, for the people who don't get this: Payment is defined in terms of what someone brings the company. If you bring X value to the company, you are given more pay, right? That's what determines promotion, etc. So the very fact that companies can make money, means that the people working for the company must be paid less than they are worth. This has very obviously been 'perverted' in the modern age with senior executives (that do literally gently caress all, or sometimes even harm the company) get obscene bonuses, while most people I know have to work 2-3 jobs to earn a wage that allows them to eat. The fact of the matter is that as it stands, we have more than enough housing and food for everyone. The fact that people are poor is literally a matter of deliberate malice and bad logistics, because it turns out that relying on 'money' to distribute food means that most food ends up utterly wasted.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:38
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Can you still be a good person if you take advantage of an evil system? Like a cotton trader who didn't directly enslave anyone, but knew exactly where his stock came from. Definitely a bad person, but what would their alternative be? It's not like there were many ethically sourced crops at the time. But still, earning your bucks off an evil system makes you a bad person anyway. A surgeon who makes a half million a year off a for-profit medical system. Also a bad person. But what, are people just supposed to not do surgery? Doesn't matter, same rules apply. Any person who exttacts value from another person's labor? Also evil. Yes that is all employment unless you are working for a public employer or yourself. It doesn't matter if the person is chipper to you at the grocery store or picks up your mail while you're gone, they are still bad.
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Jul 15, 2021 16:01
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Manager Hoyden posted:Can you still be a good person if you take advantage of an evil system? This is a depressingly overly simplistic view of both society and morality
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Jul 15, 2021 16:04
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thetoughestbean posted:This is a depressingly overly simplistic view of both society and morality Not really
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Jul 15, 2021 16:06
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All society is evil unless everyone gets to do exactly what they want.
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Jul 15, 2021 16:09
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thetoughestbean posted:This is a depressingly overly simplistic view of both society and morality Most attempts to introduce complexity always seem to be trying to make people who do bad things feel better by claiming greater context for wrong action. I don't think it always is, but a lot of the time there are going to be better options.
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Jul 15, 2021 16:13
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Josef bugman posted:Most attempts to introduce complexity always seem to be trying to make people who do bad things feel better by claiming greater context for wrong action. If you aren't a rice farmer in Bangladesh I guarantee you do the exact bad actions you think of
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Jul 15, 2021 16:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:If you aren't a rice farmer in Bangladesh I guarantee you do the exact bad actions you think of Very possibly. But then I think I'm a bad person and I am not trying to excuse that fact. Josef bugman has a new favorite as of 17:48 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 16:22
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Manager Hoyden posted:Can you still be a good person if you take advantage of an evil system? got some bad news...
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Jul 15, 2021 16:24
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fizzymercury posted:I keep my thermostat at 80f because that's the perfect indoor temperature and apparently that's the most unpopular opinion on the planet. Icky. My thermostat stayed at 65 during the summer. During the winter I'll let it drop to 60.
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Jul 15, 2021 16:28
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73 is ok, 74 is completely unacceptable
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Jul 15, 2021 16:30
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Josef bugman posted:Very possibly. But then I think I'm a bad personand I am not trying to excuse that fact. You're not, I think. If you're poor in the west it's not bad to get cheap food for your kids, even if the food is a result of massive exploitation of even poorer people. That is the only option. No one should be expected to not feed themselves or their loved ones, or go without entertainment, or a safe bed. Being born in Europe/NA/ANZ/Japan/wherever doesn't reduce your rights to those. The problem is our system. Like, banana production is enormously exploitative and has been a producer of genocide. But they are very cheap in the US, perhaps the cheapest fruit. Bananas are also a fairly calorie dense source of fibre, and potassium. A critical nutrient for human health. A poor person in the US buying bananas for themselves and their family is not a bad person. The system we live under is bad. Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 16:41 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 16:38
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Manager Hoyden posted:Can you still be a good person if you take advantage of an evil system? Isn't this the plot to The Good Place?
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Jul 15, 2021 16:54
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Look I don't really care if they're evil or whatever, just heavily tax everyone making over a certain amount ever year. See, easy, use that money to grow Government and further empower The State.
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Jul 15, 2021 16:57
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Josef bugman posted:Very possibly. But then I think I'm a bad personand I am not trying to excuse that fact. I hope you think better of yourself eventually, friend. You post like a thoughtful guy and I don’t think you’re bad
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Jul 15, 2021 16:59
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Like, banana production is enormously exploitative and has been a producer of genocide. But they are very cheap in the US, perhaps the cheapest fruit. Bananas are also a fairly calorie dense source of fibre, and potassium. A critical nutrient for human health. A poor person in the US buying bananas for themselves and their family is not a bad person. The system we live under is bad. PHUO: Bananas are disgusting. Nutritionally they're fantastic, which makes it such a pity about the taste and the texture and the stench.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:36
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