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McTimmy posted:The Bounty Hunter WARS trilogy. Because just adding Wars makes for a completely new and non-easily confused title series. Or just bask in its full, completed glory 
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Jul 10, 2021 23:19
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McTimmy posted:The Bounty Hunter WARS trilogy. Because just adding Wars makes for a completely new and non-easily confused title series. Oh hell yes.
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Jul 10, 2021 23:27
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fartknocker posted:Or just bask in its full, completed glory Finished the first Thrawn Ascendancy book and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Having a Star Wars book with pretty much no connection to the rest of the universe actually worked out really well, and lets Zahn create basically a whole new setting. I've always enjoyed the Chiss and the idea that you have this whole separate polity hanging out past the edge of the galaxy and doing its own thing while the rest of the universe occasionally stumbles into it, and that's pretty much the whole premise of this book. The sense of the unknown, and the dynamic of a bunch of smaller powers all competing with each other are things you don't get a lot of in stories set in the main part of the galaxy, and I like the feel they add to it. The story itself wasn't anything crazy revolutionary, but I still liked it: Thrawn up against an enemy who might be his match (but of course isn't). It allows for a more uncertain Thrawn who can make mistakes, although I feel Zahn hits the point that Thrawn doesn't get politics a bit too hard, like he has to say "See? He does have flaws!" The side characters were all enjoyable and I like that they all get their moments to shine outside of Thrawn, and the sequel hook is interesting enough that I'm curious to see where this goes.
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Jul 11, 2021 00:05
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The thing that nags at me after the most recent 5 Zahn books, is whether Thrawn is really this bad at politics, or just wants people to think he is. It just keeps getting brought up. Feels like a nod to the list of things Sherlock Holmes is supposedly incompetent at, which included not knowing about heliocentricism.
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Jul 11, 2021 00:54
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The thing about Thrawn being "bad at politics" is that it feels like Zahn had to give him some weakness and that weakness doesn't make sense in the context of someone who is supposed to be a highly competent military commander who reads cultural tendencies from their artwork. Also it feels like he's going "see? He's autistic just like you!" to the reader, in the most cack-handed way.
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Jul 11, 2021 07:17
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A better, more ironic weakness for Thrawn would be for him to be blue lactose intolerant.
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Jul 12, 2021 14:35
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Casimir Radon posted:The thing that nags at me after the most recent 5 Zahn books, is whether Thrawn is really this bad at politics, or just wants people to think he is. It just keeps getting brought up. Feels like a nod to the list of things Sherlock Holmes is supposedly incompetent at, which included not knowing about heliocentricism. Hey now, knowing skull caliper measurements is way more important to Victorian-ish detectives than knowing that the earth orbits the sun
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Jul 12, 2021 14:45
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Finished The Rising Storm. I think I liked it over Light of the Jedi. Have a better sense of the growing cast and state of the galaxy. Also wondering how the Nihil will shake out, as Ro attempts to reshape their nature. And now having an Erdrich horror as his new familiar will help. Also having Avar’s big Drengir source campaign happening off page, I’m guessing in a future comic/book actually did a bit of work for making it feel like a bigger threat and aspect to this series.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:42
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Trip report from the first half of my reading of Vector Prime as i start diving headfirst into New Jedi Order. It was talked about a bit upthread about how the Thrawn Trilogy didn't really feel like Star Wars to one person as it felt closer to light mil-sim sci-fi. I'm getting that same kinda feeling from this first book, i kinda dig the body horror tone the Vong are setting up but the grim dark edginess of their actual culture just makes me giggle now and is just a strange mood to bring to Star Wars. I am cautiously optimistic so far. Going from the X-Wing/Thrawn era to so much later in the Legends timeline also leaves me a bit confused since i don't know who this Kyp Durron dude is or when or what this weird disease Mara suddenly has is. It reminds me of going from book 8 to Book 9 of the X-Wing series and being confused as to who this Thrawn guy they kept talking about was way back when i first read these things in high school  I feel like i would have loved the hell out of this book more back in my edgy teen years. I would have been OUTRAGED at Han and Chewies "Dad goes on the scary rollercoaster" scene. Han Solo being more humble as he approaches middle age and not wanting to throw himself into an asteroid field for no good reason? BLASTPHEMY!
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Jul 14, 2021 18:14
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The Shame Boy posted:Going from the X-Wing/Thrawn era to so much later in the Legends timeline also leaves me a bit confused since i don't know who this Kyp Durron dude is He's the worst. All you really need to know is that he was a student at Luke's Jedi Academy, was lured to the Dark Side by a Sith Ghost, killed billions with ship that could destroy solar systems, but then turned back to the Light Side, so everyone just forgave him. And everyone's just cool with that. He's basically the angsty teen self insert, though he's obviously older than that by the time Vector Prime rolls around.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:20
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He has a cameo in the don’t do drugs trilogy in YJK. He mentions he made some mistakes without elaborating, but it s better now.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:23
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thrawn527 posted:He's the worst. All you really need to know is that he was a student at Luke's Jedi Academy, was lured to the Dark Side by a Sith Ghost, killed billions with ship that could destroy solar systems, but then turned back to the Light Side, so everyone just forgave him. And everyone's just cool with that. Yeah how old is he suppose to be now? The twins are 16 with Anakin maybe 13/14? With the way he is written and how it says the kids look up to the him i would assume he's in his twenties then? or close to it? Knowing that HE is suppose to be the angsty self insert and not Jacen is interesting since Jacen himself seems the very definition of rebellious ansty teen Jedi that doesn't want any higher authority MAAAAAAAN fits the bill better. The Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 18:27
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thrawn527 posted:He's the worst. All you really need to know is that he was a student at Luke's Jedi Academy, was lured to the Dark Side by a Sith Ghost, killed billions with ship that could destroy solar systems, but then turned back to the Light Side, so everyone just forgave him. And everyone's just cool with that. Anakin murdered scores of children with his own hands and still got redemption so it seems like the bar for redemption is pretty low. Though I always liked in some of the legends novels Anakin would appear to Leia as a force ghost and she'd be all "ok so you did one good thing at the end of your life that doesn't make up for years of atrocities including blowing up my home planet and torturing me while on the Death Star". To his credit he at least admits she has a point and fucks off back to wherever Force ghosts hang out when they aren't manifesting.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:34
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I think that only really happens in The Truce at Bakura.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:40
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Casimir Radon posted:I think that only really happens in The Truce at Bakura. I don't remember which novel it was unfortunately, but I did think it was at least a nice touch that he wasn't just going to be remembered well just because he threw the Emperor down a massive hole. Of course I read that pre-prequel trilogy what with all the child killing
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Jul 14, 2021 18:43
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Angry_Ed posted:Anakin murdered scores of children with his own hands and still got redemption so it seems like the bar for redemption is pretty low. Though I always liked in some of the legends novels Anakin would appear to Leia as a force ghost and she'd be all "ok so you did one good thing at the end of your life that doesn't make up for years of atrocities including blowing up my home planet and torturing me while on the Death Star". To his credit he at least admits she has a point and fucks off back to wherever Force ghosts hang out when they aren't manifesting. They basically had to kill Anakin after his redemption, though, because it's not like he could just go back to the Rebellion and be all, "We're cool, right?" Kyp is basically if they did just that. The Shame Boy posted:Yeah how old is he suppose to be now? The twins are 16 with Anakin maybe 13/14? With the way he is written and how it says the kids look up to the him i would assume he's in his twenties then? or close to it? There's some discrepancy about Kyp's age, but the best I can find is that he's 7 around the time of the Battle of Yavin, and Vector Prime is 25 years after that, making him about 32. (The Jedi Academy Trilogy that introduced him was set 11 years after Yavin, so he would have been 18 for that.)
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Jul 14, 2021 18:48
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The funny thing in The Truce at Bakura is that Anakin's ghost is clearly described as being the original one from ROTJ rather than Hayden Christiansen. So it's proof that Force ghosts can change their appearance.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:25
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Ganner Rhysode is like Kyp done correctly. Cocky, charismatic dude who’s pretty strong in the force but then gets knocked down a few pegs then actually learns from it.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:57
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Chewie went out like a goddamn hero 
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Jul 14, 2021 21:35
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The Shame Boy posted:Going from the X-Wing/Thrawn era to so much later in the Legends timeline also leaves me a bit confused since i don't know who this Kyp Durron dude is or when or what this weird disease Mara suddenly has is. It reminds me of going from book 8 to Book 9 of the X-Wing series and being confused as to who this Thrawn guy they kept talking about was way back when i first read these things in high school I will say that in regards to your first point, Vong culture and society does get fleshed out a lot more in the later books. The pain thing is still a big part, but there's more than just that. I do agree that they are meant to feel like something entirely alien to Star Wars, and for me that's one of the series' stronger points (though also something that turns a lot of people off). The Shame Boy posted:Knowing that HE is suppose to be the angsty self insert and not Jacen is interesting since Jacen himself seems the very definition of rebellious ansty teen Jedi that doesn't want any higher authority MAAAAAAAN fits the bill better.
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Jul 15, 2021 00:39
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The Shame Boy posted:Yeah how old is he suppose to be now? The twins are 16 with Anakin maybe 13/14? With the way he is written and how it says the kids look up to the him i would assume he's in his twenties then? or close to it? jacen is also the angsty insert. by the time of NJO, kyp durron is someone else's angsty insert that the other authors have to include because obviously he became a big shot jedi with his incredible force potential and all that poo poo. and yeah i think kyp is like...late twenties at that point?
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Jul 15, 2021 00:39
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Age aside, part of Kyp's status and the overall dynamic of the Jedi is also that he's one of the first generation of Jedi trained by Luke. You've basically got Luke at the top as the elder statesman (well, in his forties), the first generation including Kyp, Corran Horn, Mara, and a few others, and the new generation including the Solo kids, Ganner, Wurth Skidder, Miko Reglia, etc.
Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 00:48
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Don’t know that I’ll ever revisit the NJO. It was often overly dark, what followed was dumb as poo poo, and 20 books is a huge commitment. Besides which I originally read them as a depressed high school student, and don’t feel like dredging that period up.
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Jul 15, 2021 01:07
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Took off an afternoon to finish The Rising Storm. Overall, I'd say it's a tighter book than Light of the Jedi and much better with the character writing, even if the bigger reveals left me shrugging (Ro's Chekhov's gun basically being a... spookier vornskr, for one). Poor Bell, though. Kid can't get a break. Reminds me that I should get around to reading the IDW comics one of these days.
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Jul 15, 2021 03:04
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The IDW comics trend towards shorter one-shot kid friendly stories. I got about 20 issues in and then stopped bothering to pirate them. They're not legally availabe over here for "reasons", and when I asked the local nerd shop about them there was much incoherent grunting and angry gesticulating so... 
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Jul 15, 2021 05:07
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I'm about 60% through Rising Storm, and while I'm mostly enjoying the High Republic books so far, I think I've identified something that bugs me about them. They're mostly based around a couple massive action scenes that take up 40-60% of the book, and are kind of twiddling their thumbs in between those scenes doing nothing. I'm not saying I want more action, if anything it's the opposite. I'm saying I want the non action scenes to do more. I feel like anytime we're not in huge, multi chapter spanning action scenes, everyone is just sitting around waiting to get to the action scenes. There's not much character progression in these "in between" scenes (outside of the Nihil, which I still don't find super interesting). I find myself just waiting for the Nihil to show up again so something, anything can happen again. I should note this is just about the two "novels". I haven't read the YA novels, or the comics or any other stuff.
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Jul 15, 2021 13:13
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Jazerus posted:jacen is also the angsty insert. by the time of NJO, kyp durron is someone else's angsty insert that the other authors have to include because obviously he became a big shot jedi with his incredible force potential and all that poo poo. and yeah i think kyp is like...late twenties at that point? Also worth remembering that for Vector Prime, in the original outline, Kyp Durron and Nom Anor were just stand-in characters; only after the outline was written did they decide to make those stand-in characters the pre-existing ones. Back when I was reading through the old EU I also distinctly remember that Kyp Durron is the first of the new Jedi to be identified as a Jedi Master after Luke, though at this point I forget which book that was.
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Jul 15, 2021 13:58
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Gotta give a shout out to Rising Storm spoiler Senator Toon for being a grade-A Rational dude. I was expecting Borsk 2.0 but he ended up making some great points and being an overall swell dude. Love to see some more of him politicking.
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Jul 15, 2021 14:14
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thrawn527 posted:I should note this is just about the two "novels". I haven't read the YA novels, or the comics or any other stuff. I'd say try out Into the Dark, the introduction to the Drengir. It's not a "big event" book, mainly just an adventure with some mysterious goings on. It also features one of Star Wars most dynamic characters in Geode. Just amazing amount of action and daring from him.
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Jul 15, 2021 14:42
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Didn't Kyp get a lot of poo poo throughout the early parts of NJO? It's been forever since I read them but I thought he basically took full blame for the fall of Ithor when he got his rear end kicked by Tsavong Lah. Edit. Nope, that was Corran Horn at Ithor. He's also another self insert who needed to get knocked down a peg.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:01
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VaultAggie posted:Gotta give a shout out to Rising Storm spoiler Senator Toon for being a grade-A Rational dude. I was expecting Borsk 2.0 but he ended up making some great points and being an overall swell dude. Love to see some more of him politicking. Hell yes, the scene with him and the Nullifier prototype was some Grade A subversion (plus I just loved his increasingly-incredulous reactions to the thing). Ty having no reservations whatsoever about burying her pointy saber into Elzar's chest during the ensuing fight was great too (and pans out well later on). And yes literally half of Rising Storm is the proverbial field trip to the fireworks factory but I feel the value there is in how that lead-up sets up certain... simmering pots ready to boil over (*cough*Elzar*cough*) and just increases the tension in general. Plus, it lends a cinematic vibe to the whole thing which obviously YMMV, but I dug it.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:05
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Description of the stories from Visions: https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-visions-anime-jedi-rock-opera Not a ton of spoilers but just in case: Two are set post-Episode IX (one about the future of the Jedi and one about the remains of the First Order raising new darksider twins), and one pre-TPM (also about the Jedi); one is set in between the PT/OT and will feature a Jaxxon-inspired character; one is about the wedding traditions on a remote planet; one is about a droid; one is a love story between a Jedi and a princess; and one is a rock opera on Tatooine.
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Jul 15, 2021 22:59
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Hot drat am I here for Luke Skywalker Superstar.
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Jul 15, 2021 23:09
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I was just saying how the Vong culture was making me laugh at how grim dark edgy and cool they are but now that i'm finishing up Dark Tide 1 and there was only the epilogue to give them a bit more character i have to say i kinda miss their perspective on things from Book 1. But even with only this second book i can already see how this series would have been a major turn off. The horrors of war and child/teenage soldier Jedi badassedly cutting down wave after wave of kill and i know that it's only going to get much worse! oh no!I have managed so far on the absurdity on the concept of body horror aliens invading Star Wars and turning into a gritty war story, lets see how far my curiosity and patience will carry me
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Jul 17, 2021 00:55
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According to a Stackpole interview from a few years ago, all of the more extreme Vong stuff was supposed to be a feature only of the Shais from his Dark Tide book, but the later authors just applied it to all the Vong. I think most of the NJO is at least decent, with Traitor, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force all being top-tier Star Wars books. Honestly I think the worst of the NJO is Balance Point, which I remember just being a pain. Star by Star is super long but easy to read just because of everything that goes on in it, but I also think that its high ranking really comes out of its "event" status and not the quality of its writing (which is Troy Denning's first SW novel, too). Then there's stuff like the Edge of Victory and Force Heretic miniseries, which worst you can lobby at them is there's a lot of wheel-spinning but aren't bad per se. Agents of Chaos also isn't great but is kind of fun as a distant sequel to the Daley Han Solo Trilogy. In terms of authorship, it's interesting that the NJO is kind of the turnaround of the old Bantam era of authors and the crew who basically did the books through the Disney purchase. It's the final works of Stackpole and Kathy Tyers; introduces Luceno, Stover, Denning, and Sean Williams; and keeps on Allston who's one of the few who bridges that transition.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:29
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Is edge of victory Allston’s series? Those two ruled.
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Jul 17, 2021 04:58
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Edge of Victory is the Grey Keyes duology focusing on Anakin and the younger Jedi. The Allston books are Rebel Dream and Rebel Stand. I really liked both of them, and that whole run from Edge of Victory to Destiny's Way is extremely solid. One of the nice things about the way the NJO is structured is that all the authors have a chance to each give their own unique takes on the series, focusing on different characters or parts of the universe or even doing different genres, and then move on before anything can outstay its welcome. The continual addition of new blood and new ideas makes a nineteen book series feel surprisingly fresh throughout. And if you don't like a particular author or subject, it's usually gone in a book or two at most. Among the many other problems of Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi, you never really get that same sense of change; you're always going to get Allston, Traviss/Golden, and Denning in that order, so if you don't like any of them you're stuck with them, and the whole thing just feels like it's going through the same beats again and again.
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Jul 17, 2021 05:39
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So back when I was a kid I read through all of Galaxy of Fear except a couple that I didn’t see at the bookstore. They were #9Spore and #12The Hunger. The latter of which was the final book in the series. So for shits and giggles I picked up a copy of Spore and read it. The first 6 books involve the Imperials’ Project Starscream. Which is mostly an excuse for the main characters, the Arranda siblings and their shapeshifting uncle, Hoole, to stumble into Goosebumps in space scenarios. How any of it was ultimately supposed to fit together is never explained, and the guy running it gets killed by one of his creations in book #6. But the horror scenarios don’t cease for 6 more books, they’re just unconnected. In Spore the Arranda sibling, Tash(Girl with some force potential) and Zak(Boy-Does machines) touch down on Ithor to resupply. But one of the items they require is mineral to repair their engines, and Ithorians aren’t big on mining because it’s bad for the environment. So Fandomar, an Ithorian they met, volunteers to shuttle them out to a nearby asteroid mine. The supply ship gets attacked and damaged by Space Slugs as seen in ESB, and they’re rescued by the miners. The miners offer to trade the mineral to them if Hoole provides his anthropological insight into something they recently dig up. So everyone takes a spacewalk into vacant slug hole where they find a door carved into a rock and a statue of an Ithorian that’s clearly indicating that they should not open the door. Of course this is a horror story so the head miner opens it anyway and sets off a booby trap that temporarily traps them in the hole. When they get out and make it back to the mining station who else but Jerec has shown up, and is demanding to be taken to the hole. Cameos from movie and EU characters were pretty common in this series. Like, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, Darth Vader, and Boba Fett show up multiple times. Thrawn, and Dash Rendar also get cameos. Fandomar and her mentioned but unseen husband are from a Dave Wolverton story printed in Tales from Mos Eisley Cantina. Though I didn’t remember that. The head miner bullshits Jerec into waiting a while to go back, and when they do they encounter a dead miner who has had his oxygen line cut. Whatever was behind the door has been stolen. Hoole finds markings alluding to something called “Spore”, but this is a kids’ book so he gets dumb and can’t make an educated guess as to what that means. Jerec is pissed and orders everyone back to the mining complex to figure out who stole it. But on the way back in an explosion depressurizes the station. Jerec and his men escape in their ship, and the Arrandas and miners board Fandomar’s ship. During the escape Fandomar shoves one of the miners out the airlock, albeit in a pressure suit, and tries to introduce sleep gas into the head miner’s oxygen supply. In the confusion they crash into the surface of Ithor. As it turns out the head miner attempted to go back and steal Spore, and was infected by what turned out to be a failed Ithorian gene splicing project. Being a bunch of space hippies they didn’t want to just kill a deadly space parasite they takes over your brain and makes you infect everyone else you come in contact with. So they stuck it out on an asteroid and hoped nobody would stumble on it. Fandomar admits to having told an Imperial officer of its existence to get them to stop torturing her husband. Which is where Jerec heard about it. Spore infects Zak, Hoole, and an Ithorian medical team responding to the crash. Jerec shows back up and informs Spore that he has a totally brilliant plan to overthrow the emperor. He just needs Spore to infect his crew, and then a sizable enough portion of the Imperial military so he can challenge Palpatine. Jerec demonstrates that Spore can’t directly infect him by swatting back an assimilation attempt with the force, but this is still clearly a really stupid plan. So Spore, and his infected followers, join Jerec aboard his Star Destroyer, the Vengeance. Tash and Fandomar sneak aboard and kidnap Zak and Hoole. Then steal ships and get Jerec to chase them into the asteroid field. Which is full of slugs who destroy the Star destroyer and everyone on it except Jerec. With the primary host dead everyone else who was infected goes back to normal. You’re not told exactly how Jerec explained his way out of losing his entire ship and crew while doing something insane. Despite a gently caress up of this magnitude, while trying to do treason no less, he is given another Star Destroyer, and later the unique SSD he has in Jedi Knight. Because this series is Goosebumps but in space it has to end on a stinger. Which is that Spore is once again dormant, and floating around waiting for the next dumbass to infect. Given the allowance that this is a grade school level book I can’t be too harsh on it. It does exactly what it sets out to do just fine. I read the two YJK books I missed a few years ago, and despite those ostensibly being more for middle school age kids the writing is incredibly dumbed down, to the point they were painful to read. These elementary level books are honestly written more competently than the couple of YJK books I read as an adult. While it’s easy to poke holes in the plot now, I definitely would have enjoyed this as a kid. I’ll probably grab a copy of The Hunger a little later.
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Jul 19, 2021 05:43
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Given the books they were emulating it's not that surprising that Galaxy of Fear was poo poo. I have pretty fond memories of Young and Junior Jedi Knights, enough that there's no way I'm gonna go back and check and risk ruining them.
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Jul 19, 2021 07:58
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I never read any of the Galaxy of Fear books but reading the descriptions I always felt that I would have loved them as a kid. For similar shits and giggles I read one or two of the YJKs ten or so years back and I felt like they held up for what they were. Speaking of Kyp Durron, he appears in one of them and I remember thinking that his characterization there being pretty good for a penitent Jedi trying to make up for his past. Also, looking up the YJK books now, I completely forgot that Raynal Thul originated in them, or that he was the son of some of the characters from the Han Solo Trilogy. Have to hand it to YJK, they really did bring in kid versions of pretty much the entire Bantam-era cast. Also have to give Denning credit for massacring most of the YJK cast in a single book.
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Jul 19, 2021 13:03
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