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Lol there's no biological evolution in middle Earth Probably no such thing as science either
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Jul 15, 2021 06:51
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| # ? May 9, 2024 16:45 |
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Y'all should think less scientifically and more animistically. Sauron poured his will and essence into the Ring when he forged it. It has a spirit, or at least a pretty capable fraction of one. It can influence events around it (in a metaphysical way rather than a physical one), and the influence it exerts is in accordance with its nature - that nature being Sauron's. The Ring is an immobile lump of gold that only knows what it can psychically glean from its vicinity, but given the limitations arising from the vast difference in agency between them, at any of the times that the Ring is personified, does it ever act in a manner inconsistent with the principle "What would Sauron do?"
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Jul 15, 2021 09:49
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Blood Boils posted:
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Jul 15, 2021 10:55
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That's just volcano magic
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Jul 15, 2021 17:10
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The Ring has a nature that can be metaphorically be described as a will, but it's not necessarily more sapient than those Elven ropes that knot and unknot themselves as is most convenient.
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Jul 15, 2021 18:17
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Could the Ring force me to take 14 shots and accidentally leave it in a bar bathroom for another even more weak-willed fool??
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Jul 16, 2021 05:54
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Could the Ring force me to take 14 shots and accidentally leave it in a bar bathroom for another even more weak-willed fool?? that's my usual excuse
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Jul 16, 2021 11:47
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With the benefit of hindsight leaving Isildur to die for the sake of spending the next centuries buried in mud wasn't the best way of finding a useful bearer.
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Jul 16, 2021 12:55
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Ok maybe it's sentient but that doesn't mean smart
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Jul 16, 2021 12:56
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Data Graham posted:Ok maybe it's sentient but that doesn't mean smart https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juUE0bByZfE
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Jul 16, 2021 13:23
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YaketySass posted:With the benefit of hindsight leaving Isildur to die for the sake of spending the next centuries buried in mud wasn't the best way of finding a useful bearer.
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Jul 16, 2021 13:25
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No one knows what happened with isildur other than he died and the ring came off at some point . Can’t really draw much conclusions from that. Maybe a lucky arrow hit him with the ring on and it came off after he was dead ? Who knows
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Jul 16, 2021 13:27
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It’s been like 500 generations It’s nonsensical to talk about who is descended from who at that distance . They are descended from everyone alive at the moment
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Jul 16, 2021 13:35
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euphronius posted:It’s been like 500 generations Isildur Jr. would have also been able to just go on a quick jaunt over to Mt. Doom at the time.
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Jul 16, 2021 13:39
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That was meant for true dune thread sorry lol . The iOS app fucks up from time to time
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Jul 16, 2021 13:48
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euphronius posted:That was meant for true dune thread sorry lol . The iOS app fucks up from time to time lol fits here too
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Jul 16, 2021 13:50
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Nessus posted:it seems like the Ring has way less grip on you when you do not obtain it from murder and theft. Alternatively the people who the Ring has the potential to have strong hold on obtain it via murder and theft because it has a stronger hold on them from the outset. I think the mindset changes the acquisition, not vice versa. Maybe the method causes some degree of post hoc justification that serves as reinforcement though.
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Jul 16, 2021 16:47
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Sauron originally declared the ring was a birthday present to himself, hence gollums madness
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Jul 16, 2021 16:56
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Ravenfood posted:Alternatively the people who the Ring has the potential to have strong hold on obtain it via murder and theft because it has a stronger hold on them from the outset. I think the mindset changes the acquisition, not vice versa.
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Jul 16, 2021 17:17
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Nessus posted:I think Gandalf theorizes that the reason Bilbo was able to give it up at all was because he just found it, he didn't beat up Gollum to take his treasure or anything. And in turn, Frodo received it and was aware of the risks; and Sam in turn only took it up for a minute because he thought Frodo was dead and it was now his job to get it to the finish line. In fact this happens more often than the Ring being transferred by violence and force, which I think technically was only ever done by Gollum. Little poo poo Isildur cutting it off Sauron’s presumably mutilated body sounds pretty violent
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Jul 16, 2021 17:21
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Nessus posted:I think Gandalf theorizes that the reason Bilbo was able to give it up at all was because he just found it, he didn't beat up Gollum to take his treasure or anything. And in turn, Frodo received it and was aware of the risks; and Sam in turn only took it up for a minute because he thought Frodo was dead and it was now his job to get it to the finish line. In fact this happens more often than the Ring being transferred by violence and force, which I think technically was only ever done by Gollum. Little poo poo ...I kind of need to know what your av is
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Jul 17, 2021 01:03
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Tree Bucket posted:...I kind of need to know what your av is Based on the username I'm gonna guess it's a Pierson's Puppeteer from the Ringworld books https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierson%27s_Puppeteers (there's a puppeteer named Nessus in the books)
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Jul 17, 2021 01:19
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skasion posted:Isildur cutting it off Sauron’s presumably mutilated body sounds pretty violent I understand why the films did what they did and it was fine but man Sauron's death in the books was way more metal. He fought Gil-Galad and Elendil for a while until all three of them died and then Isildur cut the ring from his hand. Does Tolkien ever comment on what happened to Aeglos? I always thought it was cool as hell that Gil-Galad had a badass spear. I guess the Elves probably took it over seas or something to make sure it was never despoiled.
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Jul 17, 2021 03:25
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Yeah it would be inconceivable for the elves to let some non elf use a weapon of one of their heroes so they probably retired it
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Jul 17, 2021 03:28
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skasion posted:Isildur cutting it off Sauron’s presumably mutilated body sounds pretty violent yeah, but he hadn't killed sauron, he was just looting drops
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Jul 17, 2021 03:36
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Bongo Bill posted:Y'all should think less scientifically and more animistically. Sauron poured his will and essence into the Ring when he forged it. It has a spirit, or at least a pretty capable fraction of one. It can influence events around it (in a metaphysical way rather than a physical one), and the influence it exerts is in accordance with its nature - that nature being Sauron's. I don't think Sauron would choose to spend a few centuries hanging out in a dark cave with a creature that may or may not be/have been a Hobbit.
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Jul 17, 2021 07:38
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Tree Bucket posted:...I kind of need to know what your av is
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Jul 17, 2021 07:44
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I don't think Sauron would choose to spend a few centuries hanging out in a dark cave with a creature that may or may not be/have been a Hobbit. Sauron would, and did, patiently bide his time and ingratiate himself to his captor until he can engineer an opportunity to escape.
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Jul 17, 2021 09:12
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Nessus posted:Pham was correct. Puppeteers get described fairly simply so there's a lot of artistic variation in their representation. There has not yet been a big-budget presentation of any kind. Ahh. Of course someone named Pham Nuwen gets the scifi reference
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Jul 17, 2021 11:53
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The ring is fully sentient and sapient, with full powers of logic and reason. The only reason that it stayed under the misty mountains for so long is that it was out of gas.
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Jul 17, 2021 14:03
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CommonShore posted:The ring is fully sentient and sapient, with full powers of logic and reason. The only reason that it stayed under the misty mountains for so long is that it was out of gas. Should have stopped at Wall Drug
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Jul 17, 2021 14:04
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Nessus posted:I think Gandalf theorizes that the reason Bilbo was able to give it up at all was because he just found it, he didn't beat up Gollum to take his treasure or anything. And in turn, Frodo received it and was aware of the risks; and Sam in turn only took it up for a minute because he thought Frodo was dead and it was now his job to get it to the finish line. In fact this happens more often than the Ring being transferred by violence and force, which I think technically was only ever done by Gollum. Little poo poo Specifically, Gandalf's theory was that Bilbo had the opportunity to stab Gollum in the back, but pity and mercy kept him from doing so. This kept the Ring from, poisoning his mind too easily. Just like he only used the Ring after his adventure to hide from unwelcome visitors or avoid danger, not to spy or steal or kill.
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Jul 17, 2021 14:14
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Where are the lines that Isildur looted the ring from the corpse, anyway? I had always read it as he cut it off of Sauron's hand mid-fight, even before the movies came out.
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Jul 17, 2021 14:15
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CommonShore posted:Where are the lines that Isildur looted the ring from the corpse, anyway? I had always read it as he cut it off of Sauron's hand mid-fight, even before the movies came out. Council of Elrond, Elrond himself speaking: quote:“It was Gil-galad, Elven-king and Elendil of Westernesse who overthrew Sauron, though they themselves perished in the deed; and Isildur Elendil’s son cut the Ring from Sauron’s hand and took it for his own. Then Sauron was vanquished and his spirit fled and was hidden for long years, until his shadow took shape again in Mirkwood.” Slightly different telling in “of the Rings of Power” in the Silmarillion quote:But at the last the siege was so strait that Sauron himself came forth; and he wrestled with Gil-galad and Elendil, and they both were slain, and the sword of Elendil broke under him as he fell. But Sauron also was thrown down, and with the hilt-shard of Narsil Isildur cut the Ruling Ring from the hand of Sauron and took it for his own. Then Sauron was for that time vanquished, and he forsook his body, and his spirit fled far away and hid in waste places; and he took no visible shape again for many long years.
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Jul 17, 2021 14:22
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skasion posted:Council of Elrond, Elrond himself speaking: Ah fair. I always read it as fight -> cut -> vanquished as the sequence of cause and effect.
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Jul 17, 2021 14:26
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CommonShore posted:Ah fair. I always read it as fight -> cut -> vanquished as the sequence of cause and effect. It does seem implied that even though he got “overthrown” by Gilgalad and Elendil, he could have gotten better if Isildur hadn’t chopped his finger.
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Jul 17, 2021 14:32
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skasion posted:Council of Elrond, Elrond himself speaking: skasion posted:It does seem implied that even though he got “overthrown” by Gilgalad and Elendil, he could have gotten better if Isildur hadn’t chopped his finger. huh, so it was
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Jul 17, 2021 14:38
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skasion posted:Should have stopped at Wall Drug What's the Wall Drug of Middle Earth.
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Jul 17, 2021 15:08
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SHISHKABOB posted:What's the Wall Drug of Middle Earth. Ioreth's Herbal Emporium And Gossip Mill
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Jul 17, 2021 17:05
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| # ? May 9, 2024 16:45 |
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IIRC the sequence of events that ends the siege of Mordor is that after Anarion gets his head crushed under the walls of the dark tower Elendil issues a challenge of personal combat to the Lord of the rings, he accepts, they go with Gilgalad to mt doom accompanied by elrond & isildur carrying their standards, Gilgalad and Elendil tag team Sauron, presumably Gil impales him with his spear while El hacks about with narsil - they mortally wound him but he manages to shove Elendil off a cliff and burns Gilgalad to death before passing out, which allows Isildur to approach and cut off the ring AND THEN he bails on his body but not necessarily because of the ring, probably it's his best option to fly away and patiently reform rather than risk being taken by the elves to be tossed thru the doors of night
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Jul 17, 2021 18:13
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