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i definitely had a moment a week or so ago when i realized Eula was a regret. too-many-DPS syndrome where she's not meaningfully different from say Diluc, and having limited teams/no big elemental synergies to exploit. beautiful design and fun character though. breaking pity on Yanfei also feels bad in retrospect if only because she is such a...not like horribly designed but there's something off with her. Reminiscence is dropping so we basically have a 4pc set that will replace her burst. that's a weird place for a character to exist, even if it may be better than dealing with the energy issues they saddled her with.
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Jul 17, 2021 15:49
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Space Opera posted:So far Tartaglia and Xiao have been my only "regrets" with pulling (other than pity breakers). Both need pretty specific team comps to make full use of them, and if they don't kill their target during their dps mode, they're sitting ducks afterward. Whenever I'm doing co-op domains and a Xiao joins, they're always the first to die no matter how many healers are on the team. Non-whale Xiao is bad without his dedicated teams. Childe is kinda the same, but he just needs XL and doesn't instantly eat poo poo without her. I'd say, in terms of stats and not active play, Xiao is the most complicated carry they've released so far. You don't bring that into a random co-op game.
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Jul 17, 2021 16:01
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I used Childe for a good while but he's definitely a wonky dude to play around. Haven't used him in awhile for that reason. He's a cool character though.
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Jul 17, 2021 16:22
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Mailer posted:Non-whale Xiao is bad without his dedicated teams. Childe is kinda the same, but he just needs XL and doesn't instantly eat poo poo without her. I'd say, in terms of stats and not active play, Xiao is the most complicated carry they've released so far. You don't bring that into a random co-op game. Yeah, I don't quite understand why he still shows up so much. I can only guess the thought process is "he's my most powerful unit, ergo that's what I'll bring despite being unsuited to the domain?" Or they know they are going to wipe anyways so they don't even try to contribute? I'd like Tartaglia and XL better if her energy was a bit better, but at least best boy Benny supports this comp very well. I still have XL built as a phys carry from back before I got Razor, so she's yet another unit in my "level up new artifacts from scratch" pile. I've been trying really hard to just pick one support per month to work on, but so far I keep getting distracted by shiny new carries.
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Jul 17, 2021 16:38
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Space Opera posted:Yeah, I don't quite understand why he still shows up so much. I can only guess the thought process is "he's my most powerful unit, ergo that's what I'll bring despite being unsuited to the domain?" Or they know they are going to wipe anyways so they don't even try to contribute? Given my response to bringing Barbara or Kaeya to CW was a hearty "lol", I'm just gonna go with co-op being full of very dumb people trying to show off their best 5*.
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Jul 17, 2021 18:23
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My favorite thing is when someone brings Keqing into the Crimson Witch domain and immediately explodes
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Jul 17, 2021 18:29
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Space Opera posted:So far Tartaglia and Xiao have been my only "regrets" with pulling (other than pity breakers). Both need pretty specific team comps to make full use of them, and if they don't kill their target during their dps mode, they're sitting ducks afterward. Whenever I'm doing co-op domains and a Xiao joins, they're always the first to die no matter how many healers are on the team. I'm hoping that Ayaka gives me a use for Tartaglia and Sayu opens up Xiao's comps, because otherwise they're going to be benched for quite a long time. Same re: Xiao. He just does "kinda okay" damage and I can't for the life of me figure out how people consistently hit enemies with his dash abilities while in mid-air during his burst (he jumps too high to hit them usually). It's also just kind of lame and un-fun to spam plunge attacks during said burst. His plunge attacks hit for ~15k which is decent, but much less than alternatives who can take advantage of reactions (or simply do more damage, like Eula). My Childe isn't geared very well so I can't speak for him. I get the impression that he might just end up like "a Hu Tao with a longer cooldown and less HP," though. Maybe better at dealing with large groups of weak enemies? Though even then Hu Tao can just use her burst. dogsicle posted:i definitely had a moment a week or so ago when i realized Eula was a regret. too-many-DPS syndrome where she's not meaningfully different from say Diluc, and having limited teams/no big elemental synergies to exploit. beautiful design and fun character though. Eula is my favorite character (to play) and she fits a significantly different niche than Diluc due to the ice/physical focus (as opposed to having Diluc and Hu Tao, where one is going to be pretty redundant).
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Jul 17, 2021 18:52
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Space Opera posted:Yeah, I don't quite understand why he still shows up so much. I can only guess the thought process is "he's my most powerful unit, ergo that's what I'll bring despite being unsuited to the domain?" Or they know they are going to wipe anyways so they don't even try to contribute? Lots of people like playing glass cannon characters that require good reflexes, awareness, etc. to pull off, even when they don't actually have those things at the level where they stop being a team liability. The desire to be the cool green jumping
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Jul 17, 2021 18:59
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Ytlaya posted:Same re: Xiao. He just does "kinda okay" damage and I can't for the life of me figure out how people consistently hit enemies with his dash abilities while in mid-air during his burst (he jumps too high to hit them usually). It's also just kind of lame and un-fun to spam plunge attacks during said burst. His plunge attacks hit for ~15k which is decent, but much less than alternatives who can take advantage of reactions (or simply do more damage, like Eula). He does do well with grouped up overworld mobs since his mark can cause a ton of aoe damage if you spread it about. Even better if he's got the battle pass bow and he can do his own grouping. But against a single large enemy it's hard to sustain his dps with the skill cooldown. And honestly, by AR 55 you generally have so many options for quickly killing trash mobs that he doesn't stand out at all.
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Jul 17, 2021 19:04
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95% of the population use the character because they like them, there's almost no consideration of "meta" or whatever. We and reddit are an extreme minority of even knowing what's a good 4 piece.
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Jul 17, 2021 19:08
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Tae posted:95% of the population use the character because they like them, there's almost no consideration of "meta" or whatever. We and reddit are an extreme minority of even knowing what's a good 4 piece. That's definitely my main consideration for picking characters tbh if you don't care about the abyss there is like zero need to give a poo poo about what is good
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Jul 17, 2021 19:09
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Endgame builds have your DPSs like glass cannons to maximize damage. They're kept alive by shields and healing circles. Tbh co-op and endgame are a little unfriendly. you're not even meant to keep most of the characters on the field for longer than their E/Q. Essentially, every co-op party wants a Diona lol
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Jul 17, 2021 19:14
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I'm still kicking myself for not getting the free Diona because I was new to the game and kinda didn't understand how getting characters worked in the long term and she didn't look that interesting to me at the time. My wife got her in a standard wish and doesn't use her all the time, but she's glad to have her when she needs her
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Jul 17, 2021 19:21
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ButterSkeleton posted:Endgame builds have your DPSs like glass cannons to maximize damage. They're kept alive by shields and healing circles. There's a reason I bring my C2 Zhongli to a lot of co-op stuff
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Jul 17, 2021 19:33
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I gave Ningguang that shiny new Lost Prayer that I lucked into and dang her rocks slap poo poo hard. Even with the book only at 60 and her talents all out of whack. She's super fragile though which I guess is gonna be a problem for most catalyst users.
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Jul 17, 2021 19:43
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Ytlaya posted:Eula is my favorite character (to play) and she fits a significantly different niche than Diluc due to the ice/physical focus (as opposed to having Diluc and Hu Tao, where one is going to be pretty redundant). tbh her cryo is barely there so she ends up as a phys claymore who has a pretty similar deal going on with weaving a short-CD skill between NAs. she does have a more complex burst rotation than Diluc (honestly haven't bothered to learn this) but like i said the flipside is how little she really interacts with teammates.
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Jul 17, 2021 19:43
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dogsicle posted:tbh her cryo is barely there so she ends up as a phys claymore who has a pretty similar deal going on with weaving a short-CD skill between NAs. she does have a more complex burst rotation than Diluc (honestly haven't bothered to learn this) but like i said the flipside is how little she really interacts with teammates. You basically just want an Electro for Superconduct & a cryo battery and she's good to go. I'm actually interested to see how Electro Traveler works for Eula since he's set to be a massive energy battery for whatever party you put him in. As for the Burst rotation: Tap Skill > Burst > Hold Skill > Attack x4 > Dash Cancel > Attack x4 It's still a really tight window to squeeze all that in but it's possible.
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Jul 17, 2021 19:54
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Can you guys help me figure out an ideal team to work with here? I'm not sure who to focus on. I'm Adventure Rank 30 so far. I've got...
Keqing has been my primary DPS, and I like Barbara a lot as a crutch healer. I like Sucrose, too, but I get the impression I'm not using her swirl right yet. I have no 5-star weapons, my highest is a 4-star Prototype Rancour I've been using on Keqing. I can craft 4-stars with the stuff I've got banked but I don't know what for who yet. Despite repeatedly getting Rosaria as a pull I haven't really spent time playing her much, but I've got a Dragonspine Spear on her for now which seems... okay?
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Jul 17, 2021 20:02
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YoshiOfYellow posted:I gave Ningguang that shiny new Lost Prayer that I lucked into and dang her rocks slap poo poo hard. Even with the book only at 60 and her talents all out of whack. She's super fragile though which I guess is gonna be a problem for most catalyst users. Pair her with someone like Fischl so you have constant crystallizes happening and she's pretty drat durable just shielding herself nonstop.
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Jul 17, 2021 20:03
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YoshiOfYellow posted:You basically just want an Electro for Superconduct & a cryo battery and she's good to go. I'm actually interested to see how Electro Traveler works for Eula since he's set to be a massive energy battery for whatever party you put him in. swap the NA and hold apparently, but yeah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pm1CQ7ftws&t=220s i think i came across a very early in the banner theoretical rotation that was different or just written in a way that was less simple. anyway she's still boring to teambuild for sadly, guess we need more cryos and electros in the game.
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Jul 17, 2021 20:05
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Eula is awesome but goddamn is she squishy, one hit from an equal or higher level mob drains her HP like crazy. It's kind of weird for a melee character to be the game's ultimate glass cannon. I can't imagine using her in more serious content without Zhongli shielding her up constantly.
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Jul 17, 2021 20:31
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Harvey Baldman posted:Can you guys help me figure out an ideal team to work with here? I'm not sure who to focus on. I'm Adventure Rank 30 so far. Your current team is pretty good, though I expect that using Xiangling with Keqing is blasting enemies out of your attack range pretty frequently via Overload reactions. Pyro is pretty useful, so don't throw Xiangling out entirely, but you can try experimenting with Rosaria or Kaeya in her place and see how that feels. Superconduct should help with Keqing's damage and Freezing enemies should make her knock them away less. In terms of craftable weapons, Crescent Pike is good if you want to try using Xiangling or Rosaria as a left-clicking damage dealer. Dragonspine Spear is a bit gimmicky (the icicle drop is slow enough that enemies often get knocked out of range before it can hit), and Crescent Pike is generally better at filling the same niche of Physical damage. If you want to keep your polearm users as elemental support, neither of those spears will be especially useful. Go with Prototype Starglitter instead—its Energy Recharge substat will be useful even when the character it's equipped on is off-field. RE: Sucrose, the issues are probably that a) she gets a big boost from her first two constellations and her second ascension passive, which you don't have yet, and b) she's very dependent on Elemental Mastery + the Viridescent Venerer set to do the stuff everyone praises her for, so you may not have the right artifacts for her yet. Keep her if you want, but know that shelving her and coming back later is a perfectly fine move if she isn't working for you.
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Jul 17, 2021 20:34
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Stare-Out posted:Eula is awesome but goddamn is she squishy, one hit from an equal or higher level mob drains her HP like crazy. It's kind of weird for a melee character to be the game's ultimate glass cannon. I can't imagine using her in more serious content without Zhongli shielding her up constantly. She has average defense (for reference, higher than Zhongli) and the 5th highest HP in the game. You think she's squishy because endgame DPS has no defense and HP outside of Hu Tao and her burst turns off your danger sensor because she has super armor.
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Jul 17, 2021 20:35
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Honestly Eula having increasied knockback resistance kinda works against her like that, there's no indicator that she's taking massive damage aside from her HP bar which is not something you typically keep your eye on enough to notice her taking huge damage because she's just out there swinging her sword. I wish there was another clear damage indicator besides the animations that you could see.
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Jul 17, 2021 21:31
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I just have Zhongli shield her and forget about it
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Jul 17, 2021 21:31
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Yeah, my Eula has 21k HP and most of the time no real survival issues, even against Azhdaha with "only" Noelle's shield. Can imagine full +20 artifact set does mean a lot, though, because it can make few thousand HP difference, which can be felt at these values (compared to what, ~40k HP Hu Tao?).
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Jul 17, 2021 21:32
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Hu tao has one of the highest defenses in the game, she is naturally going to outlive most stuff at half health than most characters.
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Jul 17, 2021 21:45
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Hu Tao's pretty funny to me, design-wise, because her whole thing tricks players into thinking she's a high risk/high reward character. Her skill costs HP to use, and she does more pyro damage if her HP is under 50%, so it looks like she's the ultimate glass cannon, perpetually dancing at the edge of death to do the most damage possible. Except that her best damage also scales with her max HP, so you're incentivized to get her max HP as high as possible, unlike other DPS characters. Chances are an endgame Hu Tao at 50% HP isn't going to be too far off from Diluc at 100% HP. There's almost no increased risk at all, just the perception of risk. It's kind of amusing that way.
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Jul 17, 2021 21:50
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i need to peep my Hu Tao's ER but it feels like i've always got burst ready, or certainly it's up a lot of times when i don't need it that and being on a team with XQ does mean she's pretty safe
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Jul 17, 2021 21:53
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All the stuff I hear about Hu Tao makes me somewhat regret not really playing when she came out because otherwise I'm stuck with Diluc or Yanfei for pyro carries. But I also hear she can be a huge investment to get rolling because of her specific party comp wants so idk. Also not playing around that time has lined up my pity for one of the samurai so my inner weeb is content regardless.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:12
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Kazuha is my first 5* and he is extremely good. Great for exploration, strong support that works well with all my characters. My only complaint is I cannot figure out how to control his burst infusion. Like if I'm fighting lightning slimes and I drop a Chongyun's cryo skill and then hit Kazuha's burst it's gonna be electro infused which is... not helpful. Look at this enemy/loot vacuum   I've rolled on the Venti, Childe, Zhongli, Eula, and Klee banners but it wasn't until Kazuha that I had my first pity. What's weird is after all this saving and waiting I'll be getting a new 5* right away. I dumped 60 wishes after getting Kazuha hoping for another Bennett and I have more than enough primos saved to hit my next 5* pity on the next banner.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:16
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YoshiOfYellow posted:All the stuff I hear about Hu Tao makes me somewhat regret not really playing when she came out because otherwise I'm stuck with Diluc or Yanfei for pyro carries. But I also hear she can be a huge investment to get rolling because of her specific party comp wants so idk. I mean, you're not "stuck" with Diluc, he is strong and powerful and my (and your) friend.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:18
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Sanctum posted:Kazuha is my first 5* and he is extremely good. Great for exploration, strong support that works well with all my characters. My only complaint is I cannot figure out how to control his burst infusion. Like if I'm fighting lightning slimes and I drop a Chongyun's cryo skill and then hit Kazuha's burst it's gonna be electro infused which is... not helpful. Elemental absorption can be really tricky to control, especially with slimes. The absorption picks up what a creature or character is effected by, so slimes always being their element means you'll usually get that element as an absorption. There's some calculus involved with like elemental gauge units and poo poo. One of the ways I've found to control it is to try to apply the element to yourself somehow, like with Bennett's ult for fire or Barbara's skill for hydro.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:22
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YoshiOfYellow posted:I'm curious in the downtime before Inazuma smacks us in the face. What are everyone's favorites & mains? We already know and love our resident popsicle monarch gandlethorpe but I think it'd be neat to hear from everyone. I've been using Lisa a lot since she's the only electro I have at the moment. I could use Ning and Kazuha but I don't. The latter because I don't have the mats to ascend (I hate the samurai) and because I just forget about using while messing around with sucrose, lisa, xq and noelle.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:28
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YoshiOfYellow posted:All the stuff I hear about Hu Tao makes me somewhat regret not really playing when she came out because otherwise I'm stuck with Diluc or Yanfei for pyro carries. But I also hear she can be a huge investment to get rolling because of her specific party comp wants so idk. well her teams are basically just what Diluc uses, so she's not any more expensive there. the higher costs come from her specifically since her skill mechanics mean you really have to invest in that talent, and on top of that still want to boost her attack talent and HP (via artifacts you may not have kept, and levels) i dunno, there's obvious difference to how she works, both good and bad, but nothing that makes me feel Diluc is subordinate or anything lol
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Jul 17, 2021 22:45
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Is Diluc bad? It seems like people here and on youtube seem to not want to pull him for whatever reason.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:53
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YoshiOfYellow posted:All the stuff I hear about Hu Tao makes me somewhat regret not really playing when she came out because otherwise I'm stuck with Diluc or Yanfei for pyro carries. But I also hear she can be a huge investment to get rolling because of her specific party comp wants so idk. Going to bat for Diluc, I went from no Diluc when Hu Tao came out to now having a C2 Diluc. And he's performing as well or better than my Hu Tao, who is at C0 and no Staff of Homa. I don't have access to any of the stuff that can scale her damage out of control, including having the worst luck on Crimson artifacts. And there is always a chance I stumble into a Wolf's Gravestone and if that happens, there is pretty much no chance my Hu Tao outdamages Diluc. So unless you are specifically saving up for a Hu Tao/Homa rerun, I think that Diluc is still a good choice to invest in over Hu Tao. You might just passively get someone better.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:53
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Diluc is an off banner character which by default is way worse feeling than getting your rate up.
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Jul 17, 2021 22:57
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Sanctum posted:Kazuha is my first 5* and he is extremely good. Great for exploration, strong support that works well with all my characters. My only complaint is I cannot figure out how to control his burst infusion. Like if I'm fighting lightning slimes and I drop a Chongyun's cryo skill and then hit Kazuha's burst it's gonna be electro infused which is... not helpful. Its because Cryo is the lowest priority infusion. When Kazuha bursts, he swirls everything with his first hit, which triggers the infusion (this also checks the element applied to Kazuha!). If he swirls multiple elements, there is a priority in what infuses, going Pyro > Hydro > Electro > Cryo. So if you swirl multiple elements, Cryo will NEVER be the infused element. Keep that in mind if you want to ever infuse Kazuha's burst with Cryo... you'll still swirl it to get your passive going, but its probably not going to be the infused element. Especially if you're standing in a Bennett burst.
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Jul 17, 2021 23:07
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Hazdoc posted:Its because Cryo is the lowest priority infusion. When Kazuha bursts, he swirls everything with his first hit, which triggers the infusion (this also checks the element applied to Kazuha!). If he swirls multiple elements, there is a priority in what infuses, going Pyro > Hydro > Electro > Cryo. So if you swirl multiple elements, Cryo will NEVER be the infused element. Keep that in mind if you want to ever infuse Kazuha's burst with Cryo... you'll still swirl it to get your passive going, but its probably not going to be the infused element. Especially if you're standing in a Bennett burst. Ah, I run with kaz/Zhongli/Bennett/Rosaria so usually have no trouble infusing with cryo (except for with slimes). That said I usually just go for pyro because it's so easy to infuse.
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Jul 17, 2021 23:19
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