UKMT Summer 2021: I didn't paddleboard while Kabul fell, the sea was closed

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Summer 2021: I didn't paddleboard while Kabul fell, the sea was closed

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Do you prefer the extended summer thread format? This poll is closed.
Yes	126	44.21%
No	39	13.68%
I'm Scottish	120	42.11%
Total:	285 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

jiggerypokery: Feb 1, 2012; ...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.

goddamnedtwisto posted:

I think you might want to ask them to explain it again because you've got just about everything wrong there. In order:

Vaccination doesn't break the reproductive cycle. The immune system against viruses is a pretty simple one - you have antibodies that have a "key" that binds to a specific pattern of proteins - if you're very lucky that particular key binds to part of the mechanism that lets the virus enter the cell and that's the end of it, but more commonly once bound they send out a big "INTRUDER DETECTED" signal to the rest of the body which tells other cells in the body to come along and destroy the virus (as well as kicking off all the other bits of the system to provoke fever, inflammation, etc but they're irrelevant for this particular discussion). Normally, for a virus your immune system already knows about, there are only a few antibodies hanging out so once they start firing your body has to generate billions more of them as quickly as possible. Then it's basically a race between how quickly your system can produce antibodies and how quickly the virus can infect cells to reproduce. Once your body produces enough antibodies to make it nigh-impossible for a virus to reach another cell to infect, you're cured (well not really, for reasons we'll come to).

(I suppose, technically, the virus being killed in your system before it can infect a cell *is* breaking up the reproductive cycle but nobody, not even Alabamians, consider machine gun fire a contraceptive method)

Prior infection, or vaccination, means that your body has antibodies on patrol for the virus and the plans to build loads more if needed. An infection without these means there's a much longer time (a week or two) for your immune system to work out what's going on. In either case, the damage that leads to serious illness happens because viruses work by turning your cells into virus factories, destroying them in the process. Each virus has what is effectively a key that unlocks a cell to let it get in and do its thing, and the type of cell it attacks is what gives infection with that virus it's particular character. Chickenpox attacks a particular type of skin cell, causing a rash, HIV attacks a particular type of immune cell, destroying your immune system, and SARS-CoV-2 - unfortunately for us - uses a key that binds to a particular protein used in the ACE-2 receptor, which turns up in all kinds of cells so it can infect all sorts of things.

It's predominately a respiratory disease because of course the lungs and nasal membranes are the first things it encounters but once it infects them and gets into the bloodstream it can gently caress up all kinds of poo poo, which is (probably!) why Long Covid is a thing. The thing is of course that a virus is just a lump of genetic material, it has no way of "choosing" what to infect or work towards it, it just has to rely on bumping into the exact right spot of a cell at the exact right angle, so even though every infected cell results in millions of new viruses being produced, there's very little chance any one of them will manage to hit the right spot on another cell (antibodies work the same way, which is why your body has to make them by the billion to have an effect, although it does have some tricks up its sleeve to improve the odds a bit).

Anyway all of this explains why it's a sliding scale. Even the best vaccination still results in that race between the virus infecting cells and replicating and the immune system punting out the antibodies, and while in the vast majority of cases the immune system wins the race there's lots of factors that can affect that. If you happen to get hit with a *lot* of virus in one go it can have replicated to the point that it's done enough damage to kill you before your immune reaction can mount a defence. If you have conditions (including old age) or take medications that suppress the speed that your immune system reacts at then again it can cause huge damage before the defence kicks in (and conversely if you have conditions that make you more vulnerable to the damage it causes, you could be dead even if your system does respond quickly enough).

Luck is also a factor. Even with a robust immune system, a good vaccination, and otherwise good health, because it's reliant on virus hitting antibody before it hits cell, if you're really unlucky enough viruses will get into you before your immune system knows what's going on.

Pox parties sort of work but subsequent infections still actually circulate through the system until all this kicks off, it just so happens that almost all of the time that's before the virus has had enough chance to build up to the point you get the spots. Also of course shingles exists and prior infection with chickenpox is the number one cause of it. Also the problem with purely natural immunity - even once you account for the chance of death - is that sometimes your immune system ends up targeting the wrong thing. The immune system doesn't do analysis or strategy, it just picks a bit of the virus to bind to ("pick" is the wrong word here but it works well enough) and the response is based on attacking that bit. The thing is that viruses mutate randomly, and if the mutation both removes the protein sequence you r immune system has picked and still leaves the virus capable of infection then bang, you're gonna get reinfected. Obviously this fight is happening millions of times a day in your body while you're infected so normally the immune system ends up with a fairly wide range of targets and you're okay, but sometimes it's dumb and picks something that the virus can shed without affecting its ability to infect.

This is why HIV is so dangerous - the actual infective part of it is tiny and it can mutate in billions of ways to evade your system (the fact that it also happens to infect cells that are an essential part of your immune system tip the scales even further in its favour) - this is also why HIV vaccines have all, so far, failed because until now there's been no way of training the immune system to hit just that one essential site (but fortunately mRNA vaccines hold out at least the possibility of being able to do so, not only protecting against the disease but possibly even killing it once it's infected you).

Bacteria and viruses are completely different things - it's possible that that was just a brain fart on your part, so I won't labour the point.

Good post. What you are saying is exactly what I thought too. I was speaking with a retired VP at Pfizer who may know or may not know what they are talking about (I strongly suspect they do but... :magemage:

) they were super clear anyway. An immune person isn't going to have cells producing tonnes of virus and the reduction in severe symptoms is expected statistically.

gently caress knows because my understanding was the same as yours.

The bacteria comparison wasn't a brain fart. I made exactly because they are very different things and bacteria don't need to parasetise cells to reproduce.

I 100% concede that this person might have been talking poo poo.

# ? Jul 17, 2021 21:40

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# ? May 25, 2024 09:27

knox_harrington: Feb 18, 2011; Running no point.

jiggerypokery posted:

Good post. What you are saying is exactly what I thought too. I was speaking with a retired VP at Pfizer who may know or may not know what they are talking about (I strongly suspect they do but... ) they were super clear anyway. An immune person isn't going to have cells producing tonnes of virus and the reduction in severe symptoms is expected statistically.

gently caress knows because my understanding was the same as yours.

The bacteria comparison wasn't a brain fart. I made exactly because they are very different things and bacteria don't need to parasetise cells to reproduce.

I 100% concede that this person might have been talking poo poo.

Was the retired Pfizer VP Michael Yeadon?

# ? Jul 17, 2021 21:49

jiggerypokery: Feb 1, 2012; ...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.

Lol no. A relative, I don't want to name.

# ? Jul 17, 2021 21:58

learnincurve: May 15, 2014; Smoosh

My uncle genuinely did work for Nintendo, and then Coca Cola (in a dull low paid marketing jobs). We never mentioned this to a soul at school.

# ? Jul 17, 2021 22:34

Skarsnik: Oct 21, 2008; I...AM...RUUUDE!

josh04 posted:

The fifteen minutes is for the severe unexpected anaphylaxis in response to the plastic they put in it,

Ah that's the chip right :hmmyes:

# ? Jul 17, 2021 22:35

jiggerypokery: Feb 1, 2012; ...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.

learnincurve posted:

My uncle genuinely did work for Nintendo, and then Coca Cola (in a dull low paid marketing jobs). We never mentioned this to a soul at school.

Did he, too, convince you luigi was in super mario 64 when you were pretty drat sure otherwise?

# ? Jul 17, 2021 22:46

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

One in every hundred packs of Lucky Strike is actually a bottle of Coca Cola with the cocaine still in.

# ? Jul 17, 2021 22:49

killerwhat: May 13, 2010

jiggerypokery posted:

The bacteria comparison wasn't a brain fart. I made exactly because they are very different things and bacteria don't need to parasetise cells to reproduce.

Some bacteria eg Chlamydia actually are obligate intracellular parasites :eng101:

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:00

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I like the idea of voluntary intracellular parasites.

Like I don't need to do this but I like to sometimes. I have a summer residence in the lymphatic system.

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:01

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

OwlFancier posted:

I like the idea of voluntary intracellular parasites.

Like I don't need to do this but I like to sometimes. I have a summer residence in the lymphatic system.

Basically mitochondria were just little dudes that liked to hang out inside bigger cells, and then eventually became institutionalised

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:10

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Bobstar posted:

Well they're still not turning conservative for some reason. So they're obviously still young.

Any day now, just you wait...

Does that mean I'm still young

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:13

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

My grandmother refused to acknowledge that she was a day older than 29.

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:14

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

I'm 32.5 in martian years.

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:17

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Failed Imagineer posted:

Basically mitochondria were just little dudes that liked to hang out inside bigger cells, and then eventually became institutionalised

Coming over here bringing their weird foreign food.

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:21

NoneMoreNegative: Jul 20, 2000; GOTH FASCISTIC
PAIN MASTER

shit wizard dad

Failed Imagineer posted:

Basically mitochondria were just little dudes that liked to hang out inside bigger cells, and then eventually became institutionalised

All I wanted was a powerhouse

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:24

Aipsh: Feb 17, 2006; GLUPP SHITTO FAN CLUB PRESIDENT

Hey any of you seen the Jess Philips stuff? Thought I�d just lob that grenade here

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:29

Skarsnik: Oct 21, 2008; I...AM...RUUUDE!

Aidan_702 posted:

Hey any of you seen the Jess Philips stuff? Thought I’d just lob that grenade here

I've seen Twitter getting horny :gonk:

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:32

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

Squelching in ma seat,
Squelching in ma seat,
Ball Soup. Ball Soup.
Squelching in ma seat!

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:53

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

Aidan_702 posted:

Hey any of you seen the Jess Philips stuff? Thought I’d just lob that grenade here

https://twitter.com/D0ctor_fuck/status/1416356147813134341?s=19

# ? Jul 17, 2021 23:57

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

nige is going to train as a carpet fitter imo

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:17

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

He should train as a light aircraft pilot & crash properly this time

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:18

Aipsh: Feb 17, 2006; GLUPP SHITTO FAN CLUB PRESIDENT

Bobby Deluxe posted:

https://twitter.com/D0ctor_fuck/status/1416356147813134341?s=19

Tweet of the year

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:19

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

happyhippy posted:

Squelching in ma seat,
Squelching in ma seat,
Ball Soup. Ball Soup.
Squelching in ma seat!

Soup is stored in the balls.

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:22

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Bobby Deluxe posted:

https://twitter.com/D0ctor_fuck/status/1416356147813134341?s=19

I typed "Jess Phillips onlyfans" into an AI image generator and I think it's going to be the thing that makes Skynet wipe out humanity:

:nms:

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:25

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

For slightly less horror, the reason I had the generator open was to create this tweet thread and I know we all like a bit of architecture chat:

https://twitter.com/CouncilCulture/status/1416534562079969289

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:26

HopperUK: Apr 29, 2007; Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

She loving sucks but do we need to start making fun of how she looks?

e: the Neoclassical one looks a bit Star Treky, I'm here for it

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:26

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

https://twitter.com/brianwhelanhack/status/1416342689033998336

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:29

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

HopperUK posted:

She loving sucks but do we need to start making fun of how she looks?

e: the Neoclassical one looks a bit Star Treky, I'm here for it

Didn't notice the cliff the neoclassical one put in the middle of the river, consigning south London into the abyss, which I'm all for.

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:30

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

OwlFancier posted:

https://twitter.com/brianwhelanhack/status/1416342689033998336

New flag for England looks good.

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:33

Inexplicable Humblebrag: Sep 20, 2003

HopperUK posted:

She loving sucks but do we need to start making fun of how she looks?

that's an AI-generated image, not a real one

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:34

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

goddamnedtwisto posted:

For slightly less horror, the reason I had the generator open was to create this tweet thread and I know we all like a bit of architecture chat:

https://twitter.com/CouncilCulture/status/1416534562079969289

Bauhas turning into some kind of non-euclidian mindfuck.

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:37

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Oh yeah those who remember my council housing posts might recognise two of the buildings there (the light-beige ones just to the right of centre with the dodgy fake gabled roofs). For context on how ridiculous the situation on the Isle of Dogs is, until 1991 they (and their two sisters on the Barkantine Estate) were the joint-second tallest buildings in E14 and now, well, you can see where they rank.

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:46

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

goddamnedtwisto posted:

For slightly less horror, the reason I had the generator open was to create this tweet thread and I know we all like a bit of architecture chat:

https://twitter.com/CouncilCulture/status/1416534562079969289

Is that a young Bruce Dickinson as your twitter piccie?

VVV I hadn't realized how similar looking Nigel Tufnell and Bruce Dickinson were before!

Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jul 18, 2021

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:54

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Is that a young Bruce Dickinson as your twitter piccie?

It's the far less ridiculous Nigel Tufnel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

Patron saint of all guitarists.

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:56

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

My not very controversial take is the pause before he says "...these go to 11" is the greatest piece of comic acting of all time, by the way. Hell not even comic timing, he goes through a gamut of thoughts and emotions that's up there with the ending of Long Good Friday in those few seconds.

# ? Jul 18, 2021 00:58

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

goddamnedtwisto posted:

I'm sure Dominic Raab, Michael Gove, or any of the other contenders will be so much better for us than Johnson. At least Boris is *lazy*.

The others may not be lazy, but they're also not popular the way Boris is. Tories will excuse him anything. Raab and Gove don't have that luxury.

# ? Jul 18, 2021 01:07

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Bobby Deluxe posted:

https://twitter.com/D0ctor_fuck/status/1416356147813134341?s=19

I did not know, did not want to know, and now wish I had never known, that horny posting about Jess Phillips is A Thing

Niric fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jul 18, 2021

# ? Jul 18, 2021 01:08

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

https://twitter.com/BolsoverBeast/status/1416277062692884491?s=20

# ? Jul 18, 2021 01:20

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Private Speech posted:

One odd thing is how the definition of "the young" changed in "when the young grow up they will be conservative".

I'm pretty sure we're getting close to 40 year olds somehow qualifying as "the young" which to me just seems bizarre and peverse.

Sadly the population structure is trending ever more towards the old.

"Being grown-up" is defined as "liking the Tories", which explains both why the politics of a 70 year old lifelong politician are now being called "childish", and why you're very mature for your age, aren't you, my dear *smiles wolfishly*

# ? Jul 18, 2021 02:36

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# ? May 25, 2024 09:27

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

If you say 'non-story' five times in a mirror then they all appear and remind you why it never makes the news.

# ? Jul 18, 2021 02:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Summer 2021: I didn't paddleboard while Kabul fell, the sea was closed

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