Kaedric posted:

Brain Candy posted:

no

this anti-dialectical garbage, it replaces analysis with emotion, with 'deserve'. the disregard for the lives of enemies comes not from the idea that they bear some Christian sin but instead the knowledge that they will not stop until they are stopped

to then defend anarchists either forgets or ignores that they are or will become enemies. that they are morally 'better' in some sense in recognizing the current evils is not of use if they will not engage in action that in reality corrects them: this same moral superiority is born of liberals and by them, and fundementally makes them servants of stasis. of course, in the moment it may be possible to share some common cause, but the nature of that alliance is never permanent and always with question of 'what are the consequences'

mcclay posted:

The only one spout idealist, anti-materialist garbage here is you and your neo-con fake Marxist friends, bucko.

I don't know where you got some weird idea of christian original sin in my post, possibly projection from your holier than thou false interpretation of the words of Marx, Lenin and Mao if you ever actually read him.

Ashely Babbit was not some loving monster doomed with the original sin of being a chud and I never stated that anywhere in what I said. I said that she was, at the time she was shot and killed, a foot soldier of reaction and a defender of capitalisms and a lover of fascism. She was our enemy and would have gladly put a bullet in you and any other communist if she could. Would it have been nice if some one had made her non crazy in some halcyon year in the far past? Yes? But unless you are going to suggest going out and hugging nazis in the street like the liberal cuckold you are, I don't think being wishy washy about how maybe she could've been a not reactionary if presented with enough love and kindness from the left is going to do anything.

Its telling that a small part of your post is dedicated to misrepresenting the majority of what I said, while the bulk is spent on taking me saying 'anarchists are right about this one thing while being wrong in almost every other way' and acting like I am violently defending anarchists. No, anarchists are stupid and wrong and often get in the way of actual organizing. I was one for a bit, I know that they're loving braindead and too scared to actually take the steps needed to create the people's revolution. But they are also not our primary enemies right now. We are in the heart of capitalism, the belly of the loving beast. Against us is arrayed the full forces of reaction from knuckle dragging street fighters to slick suited COINTELPRO monsters. By focusing on attacking the anarchist left to a frankly stupid degree I feel that a lot of Marxist Leninists on this forum miss the forest for the trees.

We are better than the reactionaries by dint of actually caring about the masses and working to materially better their conditions. We should not loving defend fascist fighters to own the goddamn libs. Its the same type of insanity and fetishization and individualization of politics that leads chuds to burn their own clothing to 'own' lib brands. The best course of action for us is to work on serving the people, providing them education and material goods, while either ignoring anarchists or working with them when our goals coincide with theirs. For all their faults their vision of a future is far closer to the one we want than Ashley loving Babbit's. Do not get addicted to the thrill of owning your online posting enemies, or else you'll start to do stupid poo poo like defend someone who bombed the global south and sought to entrench a more hardline form of American reaction in the government.

Also before people take that last line and run with it: Biden is absolutely a reactionary monster and in some ways more dangerous than Trump, since the liberal media is more likely to ignore his monstrous attacks on the revolutions of the global south and the alphabet orgs like him more than Trump. If a liberal regime change loving Biden supporter got shot at one of those Florida rallies by a cop, I'd be having the same line on them as I do on Ashely Babbit. Our enemies harming each other and stewing up bad blood between their own factions is good. We should be smiling as it happens.

Brain Candy posted:

Mantis42 posted:

Brain Candy posted:

to then defend anarchists either forgets or ignores that they are or will become enemies

mcclay posted:

The only one spout idealist, anti-materialist garbage here is you and your neo-con fake Marxist friends, bucko.

I don't know where you got some weird idea of christian original sin in my post, possibly projection from your holier than thou false interpretation of the words of Marx, Lenin and Mao if you ever actually read him.

Ashely Babbit was not some loving monster doomed with the original sin of being a chud and I never stated that anywhere in what I said. I said that she was, at the time she was shot and killed, a foot soldier of reaction and a defender of capitalisms and a lover of fascism. She was our enemy and would have gladly put a bullet in you and any other communist if she could. Would it have been nice if some one had made her non crazy in some halcyon year in the far past? Yes? But unless you are going to suggest going out and hugging nazis in the street like the liberal cuckold you are, I don't think being wishy washy about how maybe she could've been a not reactionary if presented with enough love and kindness from the left is going to do anything.

Its telling that a small part of your post is dedicated to misrepresenting the majority of what I said, while the bulk is spent on taking me saying 'anarchists are right about this one thing while being wrong in almost every other way' and acting like I am violently defending anarchists. No, anarchists are stupid and wrong and often get in the way of actual organizing. I was one for a bit, I know that they're loving braindead and too scared to actually take the steps needed to create the people's revolution. But they are also not our primary enemies right now. We are in the heart of capitalism, the belly of the loving beast. Against us is arrayed the full forces of reaction from knuckle dragging street fighters to slick suited COINTELPRO monsters. By focusing on attacking the anarchist left to a frankly stupid degree I feel that a lot of Marxist Leninists on this forum miss the forest for the trees.

We are better than the reactionaries by dint of actually caring about the masses and working to materially better their conditions. We should not loving defend fascist fighters to own the goddamn libs. Its the same type of insanity and fetishization and individualization of politics that leads chuds to burn their own clothing to 'own' lib brands. The best course of action for us is to work on serving the people, providing them education and material goods, while either ignoring anarchists or working with them when our goals coincide with theirs. For all their faults their vision of a future is far closer to the one we want than Ashley loving Babbit's. Do not get addicted to the thrill of owning your online posting enemies, or else you'll start to do stupid poo poo like defend someone who bombed the global south and sought to entrench a more hardline form of American reaction in the government.

Also before people take that last line and run with it: Biden is absolutely a reactionary monster and in some ways more dangerous than Trump, since the liberal media is more likely to ignore his monstrous attacks on the revolutions of the global south and the alphabet orgs like him more than Trump. If a liberal regime change loving Biden supporter got shot at one of those Florida rallies by a cop, I'd be having the same line on them as I do on Ashely Babbit. Our enemies harming each other and stewing up bad blood between their own factions is good. We should be smiling as it happens.

Kaedric posted:

This is dumb

Instead think about how they can become allies. They believe 90% of the same things you do, pull them across the other 10%

Rutibex posted:

how about after the revolution we have different zones. if you want to live in one zone you will follow the rules of communism, if you want to live in the other zone you can follow the rules of anarchism (none). you can go between the zones freely and change how you live any time you want and its against the rules for the communists to invade and bother the anarchists and try to make them worship the emperor or work in collective farms or whatever

paul_soccer12 posted:

PhilippAchtel posted:

https://twitter.com/Merzboner/status/1415875639849242625

Mantis42 posted:

ted hitler hunter posted:

..I can fix him

..I can fix her

..I can fix them both

Rutibex posted:

how about after the revolution we have different zones. if you want to live in one zone you will follow the rules of communism, if you want to live in the other zone you can follow the rules of anarchism (none). you can go between the zones freely and change how you live any time you want and its against the rules for the communists to invade and bother the anarchists and try to make them worship the emperor or work in collective farms or whatever

Hodgepodge posted:

what have we told you about hunting and 'fixing' hitlers, Ted?

Kaedric posted:

This is dumb

Instead think about how they can become allies. They believe 90% of the same things you do, pull them across the other 10%

quote:

you know the rapper dude who was "chaz security" was contracted by the seattle fire chief on behalf of the police chief. those kids were killed by cop contractors which effective makes them killed by cops

it's procop disinformation to assert otherwise or to be like "duh...those anarchists kill black kids just like the cops"

AnimeIsTrash posted:

pnac attack posted:

every system is flawed, i'll have no gods or masters
power always corrupts and more of it works faster
on the brink of collapse and headed for disaster
so put faith in your peers, not the news or a pastor

R. Mute posted:

there's a lot of people out there. it's easier to radicalise someone new than to convert someone with strongly held beliefs. especially if those beliefs are anarchism.

Kaedric posted:

Anarchists believe the same things as communist except for having a distrust of bureaucrats/governments because *gestures vaguely at nearly every government

Cerebral Bore posted:

yea, if anything it reflects worse on you having a movement so unorganized that the cops can just put their own guys in charge of security and nobody even bats an eye

Kaedric posted:

You just have to convince them that the vanguard party or whatever ends up in charge will be actually representative of the people

Kaedric posted:

Anarchists believe the same things as communist

Rutibex posted:

how about after the revolution we have different zones. if you want to live in one zone you will follow the rules of communism, if you want to live in the other zone you can follow the rules of anarchism (none). you can go between the zones freely and change how you live any time you want and its against the rules for the communists to invade and bother the anarchists and try to make them worship the emperor or work in collective farms or whatever

Kaedric posted:

Also purposefully conflating ancaps with anarchists makes about as much sense as saying communists are fascists

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Any actually existing anarchist territory would be more disciplined than whatever the gently caress happened with CHAZ.

Epic High Five posted:

They're not conflated, they believe in the same stuff. Like it says so right on the tin, individual freedoms over all. What is the difference between the ancom solution to COVID and the ancap one?

Kaedric posted:

I get that there are people who do that whole 'literally I cannot even have a boss at my co-op if I am an anarchist' but that is a vanishingly small and noisy group. The removal of unjust hierarchy is not the same thing as having no hierarchy at all.

Epic High Five posted:

If you are pro-hierarchy how are you not a communist? Local power structures feeding into a larger one like a system of Soviets is obviously a non-starter so what is left?