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Ex Mods Poll Opinions (+current IK +current mod) This poll is closed. |
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| Relax or Die: i'll tell you what it is: posting theft |
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10 | 0.07% |
| ShallNoiseUpon: i have reported oddium for stealing posting valor i hope the moderators will sort this out post haste |
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14 | 0.09% |
| Cheetah7071: more like snoreson smells |
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18 | 0.12% |
| Oddium: no poll for solidarity with mobile users |
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36 | 0.24% |
| Metis: I promise never to interfere in poll results |
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15001 | 99.46% |
| Hmmmmmm. |
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4 | 0.03% |
| Total: | 15083 votes | ||
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https://twitter.com/TmarTn/status/1416800597827801092 Wow I'm extremely excited, this looks like nothing else on the market
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Jul 18, 2021 19:39
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| # ? Jun 12, 2024 05:26 |
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lets hang out posted:wow the biggest game publisher in the world refuses to use their shift key just like me! That whole post reeks of EA trying to pretend their studios are tiny passionate indie joints.
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Jul 18, 2021 19:39
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Waffleman_ posted:https://twitter.com/TmarTn/status/1416800597827801092 Could he have picked a more generic clip too jesus christ
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Jul 18, 2021 19:43
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New skate could be cool
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Jul 18, 2021 19:50
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Sick, I always wanted a military first person shooter Glad someone is bringing some fresh air to the industry
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Jul 18, 2021 20:00
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What's so special about tomorrow that both Ubisoft and EA are doing reveals?
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Jul 18, 2021 20:03
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Ometeotl posted:What's so special about tomorrow that both Ubisoft and EA are doing reveals? I guess it could be said that EA and Ubisoft are more in competition with each other than anyone else other than Activision-Blizzard, but I think EA's thing is the 22nd
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Jul 18, 2021 20:09
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haveblue posted:I replayed it on PS5 with RT enabled and while it’s subtle it really adds to certain moments. You can see Jesse reflected in the in-game TVs, fidgeting while you watch Threshold Kids. You can do planar reflections without RT so even that doesn't really show it off. I was assured that Control has RT GI but I don't really see it. For my money Metro Exodus is still the best looking RT tech demo game out there. (Besides Quake 2 RTX but that's cheating)
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Jul 18, 2021 20:18
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try opening your eyes
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Jul 18, 2021 20:24
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All the SCPs in Control were pretty boring and unimaginative, at least how far in I got. They were all in service of the gameplay--which would have been fine, but the gameplay sucked too. So it felt like everything interesting about the setting was being reduced to "touch this thing to be able to air dash" without even the payoff of it being fun
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Jul 18, 2021 20:28
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RT was a fun diversion but it feels a long way off being worthwhile.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:29
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stev posted:RT was a fun diversion but it feels a long way off being worthwhile. I mean, would you say anti-aliasing is a fun diversion? Its rendering tech that makes things look slightly better, its never going to fundamentally change a gameplay experience. Sort of some game designed around being stuck in a house of mirrors, its only ever going to just make things look slightly better. You can always live without that, but if you can have it for free, why not? The issue is its just barely technically possible right now, requires specific hardware, and still hits FPS too hard. In another console generation RT will be as commonplace as having a sound card and it'll just be something all games have and nobody thinks about. E: Also if you build a game using RT GI only, you can save time in the dev pipeline for your level artists. More realistic looking levels for less developer work is a huge win, but it requires the hardware to be ubiquitous.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:31
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The thing about raytracing is that the lighting methods we've developed up to this point have always been designed to get as close to beautiful, accurate lighting as possible, so the difference you get from modern rasterized/dynamic combo lighting in games with static lighting scenarios (eg no time of day change, for example) versus RT lighting is going to be visually very, very subtle even though what's happening under the hood changes pretty drastically. Where the player is going to see the biggest changes are in games like Breath of the Wild or Grand Theft Auto or Skyrim where the time of day changes the lighting constantly and therefore the lighting must already be mostly dynamic. Those games will get a really good lighting quality bump with raytracing as lots of features that were out of reach are suddenly Just Working. But by far the biggest impact real time raytracing as a standard feature will have is on the production side. Environment artists and lighting artists everywhere are crying tears of joy. Setting up a modern gaming lighting rig can be so cumbersome and obnoxious with so many different elements that all have to be tuned just so, and then you have to run time intensive bakes and precalculations every time you change something and want to see the lighting... With raytracing you just put your lights in and boosh.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:37
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There's no time of day changes in Metro but it still looks dramatically different with RT GI so I dunno I think it goes further than what you're saying, although yeah scenes with dynamic lighting (like when you go inside a building and close the windows) REALLY show off the effect in a noticeable way, sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms7d-3Dprio Look, he directly compares RT on to RT off in the digital foundry video and the differences, even with static lighting, are HUGE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbpZCSf4_Yk It makes things like sunlight and shadow look much more realistic. Course this also depends upon other lighting and shadowing technologies, it gets really complicated. Are you doing real-time, baked, deferred, what kind of SSAO are you using, etc. etc. etc. mutata posted:But by far the biggest impact real time raytracing as a standard feature will have is on the production side. Environment artists and lighting artists everywhere are crying tears of joy. Setting up a modern gaming lighting rig can be so cumbersome and obnoxious with so many different elements that all have to be tuned just so, and then you have to run time intensive bakes and precalculations every time you change something and want to see the lighting... With raytracing you just put your lights in and boosh. Yeah this is the big point I'm trying to make. It'll save so many man-hours of development. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 20:40
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Zaphod42 posted:There's no time of day changes in Metro but it still looks dramatically different with RT GI so I dunno I think it goes further than what you're saying, although yeah scenes with dynamic lighting (like when you go inside a building and close the windows) REALLY show off the effect in a noticeable way, sure. It's obviously highly reliant on how far the rasterized lighting was taken beforehand. For example, the before and after shots of Doom Eternal's RT mode are hilariously similar whereas Quake 2 RT is vastly different. Control is another good example where the lighting has been highly tuned and art directed from the beginning so the RT looks super similar. But yeah, you basically already said as much.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:44
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but none of these games are fully raytraced, its all just ray traced GI and reflections and specular highlights on top of a traditionally rendered game. its just a big a marketing gimmick, right now
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Jul 18, 2021 20:46
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homeless snail posted:but none of these games are fully raytraced, its all just ray traced GI and reflections and specular highlights on top of a traditionally rendered game. its just a big a marketing gimmick, right now Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm sure one day it'll be fantastic but right now it's something you turn on, enjoy for ten seconds before you get sick of <40fps and turn off.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:49
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mutata posted:It's obviously highly reliant on how far the rasterized lighting was taken beforehand. For example, the before and after shots of Doom Eternal's RT mode are hilariously similar whereas Quake 2 RT is vastly different. Control is another good example where the lighting has been highly tuned and art directed from the beginning so the RT looks super similar. But yeah, you basically already said as much. Yeah for sure. Its funny how similar Doom looks with RT, although do they even do GI? I think its just shadows and reflections, so that's why it doesn't remotely compare to Exodus' changes. But you're right it also depends upon how Doom Eternal's levels were built. homeless snail posted:but none of these games are fully raytraced, its all just ray traced GI and reflections and specular highlights on top of a traditionally rendered game. its just a big a marketing gimmick, right now Not sure if this is a joke post or not. Who cares if its "fully raytraced" ? That gets you no advantage, at huge cost. CG movies will always be ray-traced, and they were even in the 90s, but for real-time games it just doesn't make sense and probably never will. Who cares? If ray-traced GI gets you a better picture at reasonable performance, why not just do that? A hybrid raster with ray-traced lighting solution isn't a "gimmick" its the way raster graphics have always improved, by slowly adding more specific algorithms to handle additional realism.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:51
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homeless snail posted:but none of these games are fully raytraced, its all just ray traced GI and reflections and specular highlights on top of a traditionally rendered game. its just a big a marketing gimmick, right now Not on the production side. UE4's Lumen system is the lighting system I have been waiting for my entire career all the way back to making Quake 2 mods when I was a teenager.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:51
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stev posted:Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm sure one day it'll be fantastic but right now it's something you turn on, enjoy for ten seconds before you get sick of <40fps and turn off. No, you *do not* want "fully-ray traced" games. That's nonsense. How is this not the same thing but better? Like, you must not understand the terms being used to say that. And by the same token, you can turn off anti-aliasing and still play games today in 2020. But if you have the performance power, why not have a better image? Everybody ITT probably uses AA regularly. That's how tech works. "I'm sure one day AA will be amazing but right now it costs me 20fps so I turn it off" I mean, you can do that if you want. If you're getting < 40fps you should turn off RT because you don't have the hardware for it. I can still manage to get 80fps on Cyberpunk with RT ON, and that's the worst efficiency of any RT game. With Doom Eternal I still get 120fps with RT ON, at that point why NOT use it? There's literally no reason not to. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 20:52
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zaphod. img oing to unravel the mind prison youve been stuck in for like 2 years. controls rasterization was done w raytracing and then baked. youre welcome.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:54
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Control’s combat is real good, y’alls crazy. It doesn’t do a very good job of teaching you how to play it in a fun way though, I’ll admit that. Plonking dudes with your gun works fine until it suddenly doesn’t, about the only feedback the game ever gives you towards trying another strategy is to kill you, and the utility and power of a lot of the unlocks isn’t apparent at their lower levels. Like, possession seems kind of sort of OK when you get it, hooray I can take over some random mook for 30 seconds. But at its max level you can possess the healing orb enemies along with two others and make an unstoppable regenerating death squad, which is awesome. Hell, I played the game twice over before I gave the shield ability a decent chance, and that was only because one of the DLC bosses drat near requires you to use it or he turns into an almost impossible slog. Turns out though that the shield fuckin rules.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:55
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also its insanely well done beyond what most games do w lighting.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:55
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I'm not surprised at all that players' reactions are mostly "oh, this looks just as good but runs worse, whatever". That's what I would expect. On the production side, though, it's "holy poo poo this looks just as good but takes literally 10% of the time and effort and it will soon run just as well".
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Jul 18, 2021 20:55
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Stux posted:zaphod. img oing to unravel the mind prison youve been stuck in for like 2 years. controls rasterization was done w raytracing and then baked. youre welcome. loving knew it. But that's not a "mind prison" stux, that's you admitting you were wrong. I appreciate the update though!
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Jul 18, 2021 20:56
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah for sure. Its funny how similar Doom looks with RT, although do they even do GI? I think its just shadows and reflections, so that's why it doesn't remotely compare to Exodus' changes. But you're right it also depends upon how Doom Eternal's levels were built.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:56
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Zaphod42 posted:loving knew it. But that's not a "mind prison" stux, that's you admitting you were wrong. I appreciate the update though! holy gently caress you cannot read. READ WHAT I SAID AGAIN SLOWLY
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Jul 18, 2021 20:56
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Edit: nevermind.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:57
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me: controls raterization pass was done to look as close to dynamically ray traced as possible. this is why it looks so good without RT on. zaphod: aha so the raytracing mode doesnt exist!!!!!
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Jul 18, 2021 20:57
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homeless snail posted:it doesn't look any better and just ticks a box on the back of the packaging, while also driving up the price of gpus Did you not watch this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbpZCSf4_Yk Saying that just ticks a box is just a flat lie. I don't even need to argue against it.
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Jul 18, 2021 20:57
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i mean you're the guy yourself that compared it to AA, an incredibly marginal post processed effect
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Jul 18, 2021 21:00
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Stux posted:me: controls raterization pass was done to look as close to dynamically ray traced as possible. this is why it looks so good without RT on. Stux, you don't get to shout about me not reading your posts and then so blatantly ignore what I said in my posts. I always said Control had RT but did reflections and shadows but not GI. You said it did GI. Now you admit it doesn't do GI it uses baked. So I was right, Metro is the best RT implementation so far. That's all I said originally. Nice try. (Also how do you think baked lighting works for other games exactly? Lol)
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Jul 18, 2021 21:00
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zaphod is pathologically unable to understand lighting systems in games.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:00
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Zaphod42 posted:Stux, you don't get to shout about me not reading your posts and then so blatantly ignore what I said in my posts. you still didnt read it lmao
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Jul 18, 2021 21:01
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Dewgy posted:Control’s combat is real good, y’alls crazy. It doesn’t do a very good job of teaching you how to play it in a fun way though, I’ll admit that. For me it was just that it was such a clash with the core themes of "spooky paranormal activity, crossing the threshold of the mundane world" and the main gameplay verb is "shoot with gun" with a side of telekinesis. It suffered from the Vanquish problem in that sure the potential for stylish, creative combat is present but if you don't eliminate the viability of basic safe efficient third-person shooter gameflow that players have been trained forever in, most people won't ever see it because the standard scoot-and-shoot works
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Jul 18, 2021 21:01
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homeless snail posted:i mean you're the guy yourself that compared it to AA, an incredibly marginal post processed effect You describe AA as incredibly marginal? So, you have it turned off in all your games then? Comeon dude don't do this.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:01
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if I need the frames, yeah for sure. difference being turning off AA gets you a couple frames, and turning off RT doubles your fps and yeah its great on the production side. just bake it though.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:03
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homeless snail posted:i mean you're the guy yourself that compared it to AA, an incredibly marginal post processed effect The difference here is that raytracing will become the default lighting method for games in the next generation. That will bring with it a general bump in quality, especially for games with completely dynamic lighting scenarios, but it won't be visually revolutionary because we've gotten so good at making baked lighting look so good. It's not merely a novelty add-in effect, but again, the biggest gains are for the production of games, not necessarily for the player. homeless snail posted:
All game engines will switch to default RT as soon as they can justify it. The gains are too great. Sorry!
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Jul 18, 2021 21:03
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sorry, for passing the buck on end user performance in exchange for production expediency
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Jul 18, 2021 21:06
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| # ? Jun 12, 2024 05:26 |
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Also, no, RT is not driving up the price of video cards. That's bitcoin. RTX cards aren't meant specifically to do RT and nothing else. CUDA cores can do lots. Its just a natural evolution going from GPUs being fixed-function pipelines, to having shader cores, to having more capability. If anything that stuff is more driven by the needs of workstation graphics and scientific use rather than gamers wanting RT, that's just Nvidia trying to find a way to market higher end cards. If you don't want RT nobody says you have to buy one, and without RT an old card is more than all you should need, even rendering at 1440p. But please, keep shouting down myself and mutata. That really shows you guys know what you're talking about. homeless snail posted:sorry, for passing the buck on end user performance in exchange for production expediency  moore's law my goon, chill. This is such a silly argument.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:06
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