|
Escape Goat posted:How many Steam games right off the bat are incompatible with that model because they require more space? Very, very few. Some of the newer AAA titles? I don't see the small storage being that big of a deal, nor is it quite comparable to devices where the storage is soldered in. Having to peel off heat/EM shielding is annoying but if the hardware is like any of Valve's other stuff, it won't be too hard to open and service.
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:34 |
|
|
PC games are real big now A sampling of 2020/2021 AAAs Cyberpunk - 70GB Horizon ZD - 67GB AC Valhalla - 50GB BLOPS Cold War - 82GB Watch Dogs Legion - 45GB Death Stranding - 55GB Doom Eternal - 43GB Hitman 3 - 60GB Red Dead 2 - 100GB Hell GTA5 is ancient but even that's 65GB You should basically assume that even fitting a single modern AAA game on the 64GB probably isn't happening, unless you resort to running it from the SD card I assume SteamOS is leaner than Windows but that's going to take a chunk out before you even start repiv fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jul 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:17
|
|
|
If you run the storage right to the edge there might be issues with installing updates too due to lack of temporary space, I'm not sure how Steam handles that but it's a common complaint on Playstation
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:26
|
|
|
repiv posted:PC games are real big now It's not made for that though. It's made for a poo poo load of lighter games to bite into consoles and claim "PC master race" that's it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:28
|
|
|
repiv posted:If you run the storage right to the edge there might be issues with installing updates too due to lack of temporary space, I'm not sure how Steam handles that but it's a common complaint on Playstation PlayStation is the fuckin worst for updates. You need like 2x the space for the update or it fails. I had to have 120gb free for a 60 gig update. That really sucks on a 600 gig drive.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:29
|
|
|
MysteriousStranger posted:It's not made for that though. It's made for a poo poo load of lighter games to bite into consoles and claim "PC master race" that's it. I mean, they're explicitly marketing it as a device that can run AAA games, while showing Control and Fallen Order running on it. (both around 50GB)
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:32
|
|
|
repiv posted:PC games are real big now All of those are also on last gen consoles and are designed to also run acceptably well off garbo laptop HDDs. Provided SD storage at least hits the same ballpark as that those games should still be playable. Once games start taking greater advantage of SSDs, that could be a problem. MysteriousStranger posted:It's not made for that though. It's made for a poo poo load of lighter games to bite into consoles and claim "PC master race" that's it. It is, AAA gaming is a selling point in Valve's own marketing materials. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jul 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
repiv posted:PC games are real big now Counterpoint: most of those games are bad
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
Steam needs enough space to simultanesouly hold the old version of the file, the delta, and the new version of the file for every changed file in the update. If the update doesn't touch a file, it doesn't need any extra space for that file.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
SCheeseman posted:All of those are also on last gen consoles and are designed to also run acceptably well off garbo laptop HDDs. Provided SD storage at least hits the same ballpark as that those games should still be playable. Once games start taking greater advantage of SSDs, that could be a problem. Yeah, honestly I think people are making SD load times out to be worse than they are. The MicroSD speed class Valve chose is basically equivalent to 7200 RPM HDDs. HDDs aren't great, but I still use them for some things and it's honestly fine for the most part. Load time gains from SSDs aren't proportional to the read/write speeds on their spec sheets. Even the fastest SSDs out there that are 50 times faster on paper tend to only cut load times in half compared to HDDs. Spending 60 seconds on a load screen instead of 30 is a bit of a bummer but far from the end of the world.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:47
|
|
|
pseudorandom name posted:Steam needs enough space to simultanesouly hold the old version of the file, the delta, and the new version of the file for every changed file in the update. If the update doesn't touch a file, it doesn't need any extra space for that file. Games that use big multi-gigabyte archive files might be a problem then SCheeseman posted:All of those are also on last gen consoles and are designed to also run acceptably well off garbo laptop HDDs. Provided SD storage at least hits the same ballpark as that those games should still be playable. Once games start taking greater advantage of SSDs, that could be a problem. Loading times on those older consoles could get pretty bad, though I suppose a lot of people are still used to that I might actually try running some games from SD on my PC to see how slow it is
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:47
|
|
|
Weird question but what is stopping any manufacturer who has made a more condensed version of their game for switch from offering on Steam a condensed version for the Deck? So like Doom or Outer Worlds or any other game, why not take the Doom from Switch and modify it a bit and release it for Deck? Is this an insane amount of work to change a switch game to a Deck game? Is it easier to just start from scratch or just ask people to download the full game and lower specs than do a Deck edition?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:50
|
|
|
They could do that, in fact some games already separate the highest quality textures into a free "DLC" you can choose not to install
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:52
|
|
|
Isn't the point of the deck that it's way more powerful than the switch and can do the prettier games natively instead of streamed?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
I'd just assume the eMMC is only for OS and put all games on the biggest SD you can fit. I went with the 256 GB NVMe unit though to make sure I could play any title that might require SSD streaming bandwidth--or just to avoid poo poo load times, but still also have a giant SD card. Depending how configurable the OS is I might put titles on USB-mounted bulk storage just to avoid having to download them repeatedly when I'm not actively playing them. I'm not used to 50+ GB games though so I guess we'll see how that works. It's nice that the NVMe SSD is theoretically upgradable. That's not something I'd want to do in the first year anyways, but if this ends up having a decent lifespan I could see a 1 TB upgrade in the future. The big thing I'm wondering about is offline mode for single player titles. As I understand, it's common for PC AAA titles to have online DRM even for single player these days. Or is that not the case?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:55
|
|
|
I wonder if they’ll do something like GeForce Experience’s settings autopilot for the Deck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:55
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:Isn't the point of the deck that it's way more powerful than the switch and can do the prettier games natively instead of streamed?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:58
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:Isn't the point of the deck that it's way more powerful than the switch and can do the prettier games natively instead of streamed? Yeah, but with a 720p screen it really doesn't need the gigantic 4K textures modern AAAs are dragging around
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:58
|
|
|
One funny thing is I am looking at steam and other game sales a lot differently now. Picking up ultra cheap games from now until January or February is like a preload.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 01:59
|
|
|
But if you want the pared down experince then just buy a switch, they are much cheaper
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:00
|
|
|
Shammypants posted:Weird question but what is stopping any manufacturer who has made a more condensed version of their game for switch from offering on Steam a condensed version for the Deck? So like Doom or Outer Worlds or any other game, why not take the Doom from Switch and modify it a bit and release it for Deck? Is this an insane amount of work to change a switch game to a Deck game? Is it easier to just start from scratch or just ask people to download the full game and lower specs than do a Deck edition?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:00
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:But if you want the pared down experince then just buy a switch, they are much cheaper $50 cheaper.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:00
|
|
|
150 if you go for the lite
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:01
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:150 if you go for the lite $300 if you get a 3ds.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:02
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:But if you want the pared down experince then just buy a switch, they are much cheaper I get what you're saying, but I mean if file size becomes a serious concern, publishers can release a Deck edition along with a Switch, Xbox, PS5 and PC edition. So I mean starting with the Switch version just turn on Antialiasing, increase graphics a bit and then launch that for Deck. I'm stupidly assuming it's that easy, but it probably isn't. At the very least a lot of games like Mr. Shifty, Outer Worlds and many many others would look and play great on a Deck but don't play well on Switch, without needing to change anything graphically from the versions.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:02
|
|
|
The Switch is CPU constrained to the point where it isn't really capable of running AAA titles outside of extremely optimized titles like the Doom games or by going super potato mode like Witcher 3. It requires enormous effort and investment by publishers and devs too. At 720p, running at lower textures isn't really a pared down experience as the difference would be imperceptible. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jul 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:04
|
|
|
This article compares PC game load times between a variety of drives in several AAA games. The one HDD in the dataset is a 5400 RPM one which is slower than the MicroSD class Valve chose in theory, but I don't know how that shakes out in practice. Perhaps that can give some sort of perspective on the impact of storage speed on load times on the PC. Ultimately it makes a difference, and SSDs are quite convenient, but it's not a massive hit to quality of life or anything. The current xbox and ps5 consoles are doing special magic stuff to take advantage of SSD speeds in a way that PC games currently do not. (this may change in the next few years when microsoft releases directstorage and devs start taking advantage of it.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:04
|
|
|
MarcusSA posted:$300 if you get a 3ds. Glancing at ebay, it looks like the 3ds costs more than a switch lite
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:05
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:I wonder if they’ll do something like GeForce Experience’s settings autopilot for the Deck. None of that kind of infrastructure exists on Linux.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:06
|
|
|
Realistically how many games do you really need at one time on a device that gets 2 hours of battery life?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:07
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:But if you want the pared down experince then just buy a switch, they are much cheaper It's not a "pared down" experience if it's literally impossible to detect a texture resolution downgrade due to the lower screen resolution. Nobody's talking about making every game look like a PS1 game. They're just saying that textures wouldn't need to be as large to take full advantage of the Deck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:08
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:Realistically how many games do you really need at one time on a device that gets 2 hours of battery life? I have choice anxiety on my desktop and I want it in my hands too tyvm
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:11
|
|
|
SCheeseman posted:I have choice anxiety on my desktop and I want it in my hands too tyvm And also some games just naturally stay around because they are competitive multiplayer games. For a lot of people DotA will never leave the system, nor will a Stardew Valley or similarly popular title. I will never delete Splatoon or Animal Crossing from my Switch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:12
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:Realistically how many games do you really need at one time on a device that gets 2 hours of battery life? I'm not buying the nintendo and you can't make me
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:15
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This article compares PC game load times between a variety of drives in several AAA games. The one HDD in the dataset is a 5400 RPM one which is slower than the MicroSD class Valve chose in theory, but I don't know how that shakes out in practice. 5400RPM drives can be surprisingly speedy at higher capacities (higher platter density = more data read per rotation), the 12TB one they tested gets 194MB/sec sequential read I just tested a decent SD card I had handy (Sandisk Ultra 64GB UHS-I) through a USB3 adapter and only got half that 
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:25
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:Realistically how many games do you really need at one time on a device that gets 2 hours of battery life?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:33
|
|
|
repiv posted:5400RPM drives can be surprisingly speedy at higher capacities (higher platter density = more data read per rotation), the 12TB one they tested gets 194MB/sec sequential read Yeah that's why i reserved the 512 because I know I'm gonna want to play Total War Warhammer on it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:40
|
|
|
There is still one unknown with the Decks SD interface, it's UHS-I which is supposed to max out at 105MB/sec (like my Sandisk Ultra) but some SD cards (like the Sandisk Extremes) support an unofficial extension of UHS-I that pushes it to 160-170MB/sec It's not clear at this point whether the Deck will utilize those faster non-standard modes
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 02:56
|
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:Realistically how many games do you really need at one time on a device that gets 2 hours of battery life? The way I tend to use these things is on 16-hour flights plugged into seat power (if it works) or a really large battery. Then at hotels plugged into the tv. That's how I use the switch and it's convenient as gently caress at airports, coffee shops, etc. I don't think I've ever used the switch purely on its own battery power, at least not for any extended period of time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 03:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:34 |
|
|
Senator Drinksalot posted:Glancing at ebay, it looks like the 3ds costs more than a switch lite lol 2021 sucks!
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2021 03:04
|
|