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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

I knew what this was gonna be before it loaded, why did I click

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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!

DoubleNegative posted:

My parents got me FF9 for Christmas the year it came out, along with the official strategy guide. A thoughtful gift, right?

Imagine cracking open the guide to leaf through it only to find that printed on every page was almost no usable information and a giant sidebar inviting you to visit PlayOnline.com to find out any useful information like "what the boss is weak to" or "how the gently caress do you play TetraMaster?"

Like the article says, clickbait is a lot more infuriating when you can't actually click on it.

The FFIX strategy guide is bad, but at least they put everything they had up somewhere (even if it didn't stay online). I've recently seen a great video on another exceptionally bad strategy guide, the Prima guide for MK9:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMdLM7-OUE

They refused to include vital 'fighting game guide' things like frame data, which they had in previous guides and undoubtedly had easier access to through working with the developers, because it was theoretically possible that they could change in future patches... except that the things they refused to include were the things that rarely ever change in patches. Meanwhile the things they did include were things like tier lists and matchup analysis that were immediately made obsolete anyway, because they had no competitive fighting game players in their team.

That guide was so bad it actually set the community back, because people had to painstakingly research and document all the data that they just left out.

Tiler Kiwi
Feb 26, 2011
it does remind me of how old total war games had an ingame encyclopedia, where you could click a unit in battle and itd bring up a page listing their stats, attributes, general function, and information about the background of the unit. you could also do this to buildings and then find pages that would list all your factions stuff and let you plan ahead pretty easily.

and then in later titles they took that poo poo and... made it go to an online webpage. with a clunky interface to boot. so now when you tried to bring up one of these pages, you got to stare at a blank screen as it loaded... loaded... loaded... for around 8 - 10 seconds. and a lot of traits and attributes had more detailed mechanical effects and such, but were... stored on a totally different page. so you'd click, and then wait for it to load, wait, wait... wait more, then read it, then click back, and then wait... wait... wait... and then see it took you to the wrong page and then you'd close out of it in disgust and just get angry every time you accidentally brought it back up in the future.

nowadays you have wikis, but theyre kind of poo poo for the total war series outside of one oddball chinese site.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

Maxwell Lord posted:

I knew what this was gonna be before it loaded, why did I click

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug
Warframe: it has insanely fun shooting dragged down by insanely obtuse systems in like every part of the game. I feel like if I kept up since 2013 I’d be fine but the map makes no sense and the combo damage types rule but are so hard to memorize.


Still I’m having a loving blast playing it again.

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

I absolutely love Warframe but don't have the patience to sit down and catch up on all the new systems they have added over the years. And they definitely have a severe case of redundant MMO currency.

Oooh I have found 3 gloxes. Gloxes are refined 3:1 into throobles which you hand to Joe in return for esteem tokens which unlock the blueprints to build an upgrade template for your gun. The template must be manufactured using four gleebis...

Also, Warframe has a fantastic art style. However the original uncanny biotech style of the player characters has been eroded by the need to sell monetised shiny skins. Which is fair enough, they have to make money, and all the vanilla art is still in game. But still, it's this:



Vs this:

ookiimarukochan
Apr 4, 2011

In SO4's favour that scene was much better in the original Japanese - both the awful translation AND creepy dub cast get in the way.

One More Fat Nerd posted:

If I remember right, the guy who was given the fourth game really wanted to make the game as an eroge dating sim. He was shut down on that, so he made the game as close to a vn dating sim as he could get. Its gross.

Are you maybe thinking of Nude Maker, the company that did Steel Battalion? They talked about wanting to do a porn dating sim and how that influence the game design, and then went and made a porn game.

Frank Frank
Jun 13, 2001

Mirrored

Creepy and horrible on so many levels. Wow.

One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007

Mama’s Lil’ Louie

Nap Ghost

Maxwell Lord posted:

I knew what this was gonna be before it loaded, why did I click

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com

Maxwell Lord posted:

I knew what this was gonna be before it loaded, why did I click

i just wanted to say I literally just listened to "No Children" moments ago

good loving song

An Actual Princess
Dec 23, 2006

Inspector Gesicht posted:

What games have a cartography quests where you map out areas to receive awards, only there's little feedback so you religiously have to rub against every wall?

guild wars 1 had cartography achievements that required you to hug the walls to an utterly insane degree i've never seen before or since. it was the biggest pain in the rear end until some enterprising user made a program to overlay your incomplete map over a completed map ingame to let you quickly compare and see what you were missing

it still took a few dozen hours for me to get everything i needed, despite having beaten the game several times over already.



boy was this ever satisfying to see though

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

I'm playing Pathologic 2 for the first time and it seems really cool and like something I could enjoy a lot but the combination of the sprawling, intentionally-painful-to-navigate city and traditional save-point system is loving killing me. I've actually just kept the game paused in the background for the past two or three days, I wonder if there's some kind of Resident Evil style "your save file took forty seven hours to complete so you get the worst ending" hidden counter or if it all goes based on in-game events/the clock.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Overwatch Porn posted:

guild wars 1 had cartography achievements that required you to hug the walls to an utterly insane degree i've never seen before or since. it was the biggest pain in the rear end until some enterprising user made a program to overlay your incomplete map over a completed map ingame to let you quickly compare and see what you were missing

it still took a few dozen hours for me to get everything i needed, despite having beaten the game several times over already.



boy was this ever satisfying to see though

When WoW's Wrath of the Lich King expansion came out, I got a Death Knight (new class at the time) and decided to get the Explore The Whole World achievement(s). At the end of it, I realized it would have gone a lot faster if I had spec'd into the "increased mount speed" talent

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



In Skyward Sword's first dungeon, a new mechanic is that there are big spiders sitting around on webs that you have to spend a while chopping up with your new motion-control sword mechanics or else you'll get stuck in them and have to waggle your stick to escape from. Fine when the spiders are there as a threat, but after they're gone someone keeps going back into the rooms and resetting the webs for every time you revisit a room. Who is doing that and why do you care so much about impeding my progress when it's literally just a time waster with no actual threat :psyduck:

Frank Frank
Jun 13, 2001

Mirrored
Is that in the HD remake or the original. If it’s the former, can’t you just turn motion controls off?

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007

I really, really hate the Capra Demon.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆
Korean MMOs really have the most annoying approach to anticheat.
I run Autohotkey on my pc so I can do stuff like increase/decrease volume or put my PC to sleep with a hotkey combination (since Windows doesn't support any of that out of the box). If I play Vindictus with it on, it'll be all good for about 5 minutes or so before suddenly giving me a popup for "unauthorized program detected" and instantly force-quitting the game. Not allowing autohotkey to run on the same pc is annoying and dumb in the first place, but at the very least if you're gonna scan for it for "anticheat" purposes just tell me right when I start the game so I can remember to shut it down instead of wasting my time and forcing me to boot up twice.
Black Desert Online did the same thing too.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


RPATDO_LAMD posted:

Korean MMOs really have the most annoying approach to anticheat.
I run Autohotkey on my pc so I can do stuff like increase/decrease volume or put my PC to sleep with a hotkey combination (since Windows doesn't support any of that out of the box). If I play Vindictus with it on, it'll be all good for about 5 minutes or so before suddenly giving me a popup for "unauthorized program detected" and instantly force-quitting the game. Not allowing autohotkey to run on the same pc is annoying and dumb in the first place, but at the very least if you're gonna scan for it for "anticheat" purposes just tell me right when I start the game so I can remember to shut it down instead of wasting my time and forcing me to boot up twice.
Black Desert Online did the same thing too.

I dont think ive ever had a keyboard that didnt have volume and sleep buttons just built in, how old is your keyboard?

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Can confirm, I have a keyboard I (accidentally) stole from work a decade ago, and I regularly use its volume up/down buttons and accidentally hit its sleep mode button from time to time without any Windows configuration aside from plugging it into the usb port

HelleSpud
Apr 1, 2010

Frank Frank posted:

Is that in the HD remake or the original. If it’s the former, can’t you just turn motion controls off?

Yeah, but the button controls are pretty poo poo.

Instead of using the perfectly fine button controls that they already have for a switch release Zelda, they instead made sword control the right joystick.... and still made which direction it's moved in essential. So, for example, Deku Babas (the Piranha plants) open in certain ways and that indicates weather they can only be killed by a horizontal or vertical slash. gently caress you if the joystick twitched slightly more diagonal than they like. Spin attack is left, right, left, in a timeframe they deem acceptable, and again any twitch too far up or down is registered as diagonal, so it doesn't count. They did that in the original to show off the motion controls, and now you're cursed with it even if you don't use motion controls.

The right joystick when holding the controller normally, even with the tiniest of hands, sits in the middle of your thumb.

One of the other big complaints was the lack of camera controls. So now that's also on the right joystick.

You can control the sword OR the camera and the camera on its own likes to wander above, pointed slightly down, centered on Link's rear end.

There is z-targeting. It disengages after about three feet.

As always, Nintendo made a gimmick, and got too excited about the gimmick.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!
I mean, the big problem with Skyward Sword is that it was ALL designed around motion controls. As good a job as they did mapping that to conventional controls, it still means that it's a game designed around 'swing Wiimote to swing sword'.

There's too much of the swordplay designed around you directing Link's swing to just convert the swordplay into the 3D Zelda 'press button to swing sword'. That swordplay design encompasses every time the game wants you to use the sword, it's impossible to just remove it all. So the end result does still have some of Skyward Sword's motion control issues baked in, but at least on an analog stick it's a drat sight more controllable.

Thinky Whale
Aug 2, 2012

All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Fry.
The main thing I remember from Star Ocean: Til the End of Time was that later game enemies could do MP damage, and when you hit 0 MP you die. Just a confluence of breathtakingly bad ideas.

Oh, and your characters are in fact part of an inworld video game, and when they break out into the real world no one is especially startled by or interested in this.

HelleSpud
Apr 1, 2010
Have all the directional inputs accept "appropriate direction" or "A"?

They're charging that same price for a port as they do for a newly created game. They're charging a the same price as if they had remade it from the ground up. They could have, should have spent the time/effort/money actually making the one essential change that was demanded, which should have been available in the original, and which they'd advertised the game as having.

It's half assed at full price.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Link's Crossbow Training HD

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!

HelleSpud posted:

Have all the directional inputs accept "appropriate direction" or "A"?

They're charging that same price for a port as they do for a newly created game. They're charging a the same price as if they had remade it from the ground up. They could have, should have spent the time/effort/money actually making the one essential change that was demanded, which should have been available in the original, and which they'd advertised the game as having.

It's half assed at full price.

Okay, so you can't do 'A always does the right input', because that trivializes... basically every fight in the game. Off the top of my head, I remember that Ghirahim has a part where he holds up his swords and you have to swing in a way that doesn't hit them. You've turned that from 'recognize where he's left an opening and swing appropriately' into 'press A regardless of where the opening is'. And as you've said, pretty much every enemy has a mechanic based around the concept of swinging the sword in the right direction (or doing something similar with another item); so turning all of that into 'press A' means you've removed all challenge.

You can argue that it's not worth the money that they're asking, and you'll probably be right. But I wouldn't actually buy the game with the changes you've just suggested at all, because you didn't invent 'Twilight Princess with pastels', you've invented 'The Legend Of Zelda: Press A, Good Job'.

Cleretic has a new favorite as of 11:58 on Jul 19, 2021

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Byzantine posted:

I really, really hate the Capra Demon.

I really, really hate his dogs.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

Korean MMOs really have the most annoying approach to anticheat.
I run Autohotkey on my pc so I can do stuff like increase/decrease volume or put my PC to sleep with a hotkey combination (since Windows doesn't support any of that out of the box). If I play Vindictus with it on, it'll be all good for about 5 minutes or so before suddenly giving me a popup for "unauthorized program detected" and instantly force-quitting the game. Not allowing autohotkey to run on the same pc is annoying and dumb in the first place, but at the very least if you're gonna scan for it for "anticheat" purposes just tell me right when I start the game so I can remember to shut it down instead of wasting my time and forcing me to boot up twice.
Black Desert Online did the same thing too.
My favourite part is they always use terrible, hilariously invasive programs for "anti cheat" with a success rate of about 0% of actually stopping rampant cheating and botting for the latest 0.00001% drop chance shiny or their 1% XP/hour progression systems.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Byzantine posted:

I really, really hate the Capra Demon.

He'd probably be OK if you did have to fight him in a broom closet, though multi-enemy bosses are always a bit of a janky proposition in souls games.

With a boss fight against a single enemy, there's usually something you can do to avoid every attack, by dodging it, keeping your distance, blocking and so on. With a boss fight against three enemies, you can get into situations where the enemies synchronise up their attacks in such a way that you're just going to get hit, no matter what action you take.

Gort has a new favorite as of 12:27 on Jul 19, 2021

Primetime
Jul 3, 2009

Thinky Whale posted:

The main thing I remember from Star Ocean: Til the End of Time was that later game enemies could do MP damage, and when you hit 0 MP you die. Just a confluence of breathtakingly bad ideas.

Oh, and your characters are in fact part of an inworld video game, and when they break out into the real world no one is especially startled by or interested in this.

This and I remember when the reveal happened the difficulty curve just became a straight line upward. I recall going from steamrolling all the encounters no problem to every basic encounter instantly becoming a boss fight level of difficulty.

I don't remember almost anything else about that game. Just how frustratingly difficult it became out of nowhere.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Gort posted:

He'd probably be OK if you did have to fight him in a broom closet, though multi-enemy bosses are always a bit of a janky proposition in souls games.

With a boss fight against a single enemy, there's usually something you can do to avoid every attack, by dodging it, keeping your distance, blocking and so on. With a boss fight against three enemies, you can get into situations where the enemies synchronise up their attacks in such a way that you're just going to get hit, no matter what action you take.

I feel like everyone's had at least one Capra fight where you walk in and immediately get bodyblocked by the dogs and can't do poo poo.

People are quick to point at stuff like Lost Izalith as being unfinished, but Lower Burg is just as bad, IMO.

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)

It's just a hallway and a boss fight

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012


Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.



Wedge Regret

tight aspirations posted:

Especially the one in Tiberium dawn when if you kill too many enemy blokes, every enemy unit makes an instant beeline to you and kills you without any recourse at all. Although that was the mission that whichever nod building you blew up as the mission objective was still destroyed in the next mission, which was super cool.

The best part of that was if you blew up the right building from the garbled transmission at the beginning I think the airfield that Nod used to get their vehicles it actually skipped the following mission to take out the rest of the base.

Some of those one unit/commando missions were insane the first time around since they usually didn’t give any clue if your sole unit was all you’d get or if there were ways to get others. There’s a few where you only start with one rifleman or some dogs and it takes some not-exactly-intuitive trial and error to realize you can find other units off the main pain to beat the mission. I think stuff from the Covet Ops expansion were intended to be stupid hard anyway.

They eventually got better. Some of the Tanya missions in the first Red Alert, like the early one knocking out bridges, were fairly cool, and I know Tiberian Sun had a few where capturing train stations or drop zones keyed reinforcements, but IIRC they were still more trail and error/random discovery rather than things the games made clear on the first play through.

Afriscipio
Jun 3, 2013

Obduction was free on Epic last week. It's a puzzler/walking sim from the makers of Myst, which tells you most of what you need to know about what type of game it is. My peeve is that it does not respect the player's time at all. Some of the puzzles are very clever, and once you figure out how to solve them, you feel clever too. But, executing the solution takes way longer than it should and one of the major puzzling elements requires a loading screen with every step. Some of the later puzzles require 10 - 15 of these steps to complete, not including walking between the puzzle pieces with a lower than necessary running speed.

A big mechanic is teleporting chunks of the game world into different dimensions/locations. The catch is you teleport with them and each time you teleport that's a loading screen. There's a modular maze that you need to teleport pieces out, rotate them in the new location and teleport them back in. The maze requires you to teleport with the chunk you want to manipulate. Then you need to go to another teleporter, teleport back to the main maze, rotate the maze to the correct spot to receive the chunk you just teleported, then, teleport back to the chunk yourself and teleport it and you back to the maze. Every teleport is 10 seconds of loading, even on an SSD, and this doesn't count the running backwards and forwards to each bit of the puzzle. I'm looking at the maze, knowing the solution, and I just don't have the willpower to complete it.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

fartknocker posted:

The best part of that was if you blew up the right building from the garbled transmission at the beginning I think the airfield that Nod used to get their vehicles it actually skipped the following mission to take out the rest of the base.

Some of those one unit/commando missions were insane the first time around since they usually didn’t give any clue if your sole unit was all you’d get or if there were ways to get others. There’s a few where you only start with one rifleman or some dogs and it takes some not-exactly-intuitive trial and error to realize you can find other units off the main pain to beat the mission. I think stuff from the Covet Ops expansion were intended to be stupid hard anyway.

They eventually got better. Some of the Tanya missions in the first Red Alert, like the early one knocking out bridges, were fairly cool, and I know Tiberian Sun had a few where capturing train stations or drop zones keyed reinforcements, but IIRC they were still more trail and error/random discovery rather than things the games made clear on the first play through.

RA2 was where commando missions really shone. That game added health regen when you maxed a units veterancy so by the midway point you no longer had to worry about your one unit dying to a ton of small hits.

Joey Freshwater
Jun 20, 2004

Always playing with my meat
Grimey Drawer
The journal/quest guide in Mass Effect 3 is dumb garbage. It was perfect in 1 and 2, why would you gently caress it up like that?

Journal: Hey you overheard some rear end in a top hat in the Citadel talking about a thing, see if you can get one for him
Me: Cool, where should I look?
Journal: Lol idk gently caress you

Phigs
Jan 23, 2019

John Murdoch posted:

I feel like everyone's had at least one Capra fight where you walk in and immediately get bodyblocked by the dogs and can't do poo poo.

People are quick to point at stuff like Lost Izalith as being unfinished, but Lower Burg is just as bad, IMO.

I 1-shot the Capra demon. Just straight-up merked his dogs and then him. Honestly thought people just exaggerate the fight. Then I replayed it and got murdered without getting off a single hit, and it took me several tries to kill him. The dogs are just so random in how they work. The first time I think they just lined up perfectly for me to cut them down while the capra demon took his sweet time to get stuck in. Totally different fights from the first to the second attempt.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020

Phigs posted:

I 1-shot the Capra demon. Just straight-up merked his dogs and then him. Honestly thought people just exaggerate the fight. Then I replayed it and got murdered without getting off a single hit, and it took me several tries to kill him. The dogs are just so random in how they work. The first time I think they just lined up perfectly for me to cut them down while the capra demon took his sweet time to get stuck in. Totally different fights from the first to the second attempt.

I had the exact same experience. I thought everyone else was just a scrub because I zweid him with no problem the very first time. The second time I couldn't even get a hit off before I got pasted, same with a few attempts after that.

Seems like the best thing to do (without firebomb or dung pile cheesing) is to immediately run for the stairs and hope you can handle the dogs one at a time as they follow you. Still kind of a crap shoot though

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out
Biscuit Hider
FYI you can fling firebombs and poop over the wall without even entering the fog gate. It's not the most dignified way to win.

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Keep On Shroomin

christmas boots posted:

FYI you can fling firebombs and poop over the wall without even entering the fog gate. It's not the most dignified way to win.

Beating bosses by throwing poop over a wall is funny enough that dignity doesn’t matter

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Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



Star Ocean began and ended with The Second Story. Shame the franchise only had one game in it, but what can you do?

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